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BA Direct Entry Pilot.

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BA Direct Entry Pilot.

Old 9th Dec 2017, 13:09
  #4221 (permalink)  
VJW
Sciolist (look it up) of the first order
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 774
NLP were you a FO at Easy?
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Old 9th Dec 2017, 16:52
  #4222 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: uk
Age: 50
Posts: 89
Congrats to those rescued from the pool (as someone who drowned in 2012 I know how frustrating it is) it will be great to have people join us other than FPPs / whatever they are called now....

I just missed out on a long haul slot this year less than 20 places but with 90+ FOs moving on means I reckon a climb of 20-30% in the seniority list which will take me into the top third/quarter so happy days with regard quality of life and rosters so every cloud has a silver lining...

For those Joining us, despite its faults, itís a great place to be so congrats again
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Old 9th Dec 2017, 17:39
  #4223 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: England
Posts: 342
2R2W,

Sniping/negativity was not my intension at all. As I said a couple of days ago I'm a glass half full type of guy.

I tried to give some reassurance that as courses have only been arranged for Feb and March, more DEPs may get offered places as further courses are arranged throughout the year.

But, as someone who joined in 2012 and had some friends directed to the 320 from the 767 which caused 1 of them to leave BA, I think it is worth knowing all the possibilities/risks. The positives of BA difinitely out-weigh the negatives for me, but its pointless to stick your head in the sand and not make people aware of the possible yet improbable downsides.

Once again congrats to the new joiners, I'm sure you'll have a great time.
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Old 9th Dec 2017, 21:31
  #4224 (permalink)  
NLP
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 34
Originally Posted by VJW View Post
NLP were you a FO at Easy?
Yes I was VJW
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Old 9th Dec 2017, 22:28
  #4225 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: pluto
Posts: 167
As the 747 is due to retire in 2022
Feb 2024. IAG Presentations. Capital Markets Day page 25.

http://www.iairgroup.com/phoenix.zht...-presentations

Whoever you fly for, it's your attitude to the job and what you make of it. On reflection, I wished I'd stayed with a previous, but it was the right decision at that time - bit like women

Last edited by blimey; 10th Dec 2017 at 16:44. Reason: Added source for 2024.
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Old 10th Dec 2017, 05:14
  #4226 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Oxford
Posts: 2
I've been swimming for close on 19 months and a silent but keen observer of this thread. I'm desperate for info but I guess due to the heavy workload the answers are not very forthcoming. Looking forward to the web chat that has been mentioned in the last email but not sure what that will achieve. The problem is that my life and big decisions have been pretty much on hold for a year and a half and it is very frustrating to keep guessing.

BA would be a massive step up from where I am now, so an excellent career move which i am looking forward to, however, I've effectively postponed buying a house and turned down a fleet transfer (which comes with an improved roster (and a bond)) due to not knowing if and when the call will arrive.

The fear of drowning is real. having said that the previous 6 or so posts have been encouraging and a breath of fresh air from the high level of negativity I've come to expect on this thread! So cheers guys.
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Old 10th Dec 2017, 12:48
  #4227 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Button Moon
Posts: 296
Originally Posted by binsleepen View Post
2R2W,

Sniping/negativity was not my intension at all. As I said a couple of days ago I'm a glass half full type of guy.

I tried to give some reassurance that as courses have only been arranged for Feb and March, more DEPs may get offered places as further courses are arranged throughout the year.

But, as someone who joined in 2012 and had some friends directed to the 320 from the 767 which caused 1 of them to leave BA, I think it is worth knowing all the possibilities/risks. The positives of BA difinitely out-weigh the negatives for me, but its pointless to stick your head in the sand and not make people aware of the possible yet improbable downsides.

Once again congrats to the new joiners, I'm sure you'll have a great time.
Yeah fair enough but one would assume that as professionals they’ve carried out due diligence and made a decision based on info available so surely no ones sticking their head in the sand. Obviously things change but I would argue that joining BA for the short term, whether it be for a specific fleet or roster, is not the right mindset. It is, and always has been, about the long game (as the new ish 767 drivers have been discovering for the last 18 months). As wiggy said above, we all know the importance of getting on the MSL asap. And as for future moaning, I suspect the current volume of moans and groans regarding some very serious changes to pensions will drown them out anyway.

My point was simply that some of the comments above are hardly welcoming to the new joiners. I’m delighted for them having been kept waiting for what most of us would agree is a totally unacceptable amount of time given the time, effort and money candidates Are generally required to dedicate to the process.

Let’s hope 2018 brings some more good news to those still swimming and congrats once again to those with offers.
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Old 11th Dec 2017, 06:59
  #4228 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: England
Posts: 342
2R2W,

If you donít personally know any BA pilots to get questions answered, reading threads like this is part of ones due diligence. Unless issues are raised by others an applicant might not know that something was even a problem. A Rumsfeldian unknown unknown.

While the MSL is king in BA, a decision to join and on what terms is a very personal thing depending on your time in life. The decision of a single, twenty something to join will be very different to a married with kids, forty year old who has a short-haul command with a LoCo or is ex-military. The latter probably has low expectations of a long-haul command but is maybe moving for a long-haul FO lifestyle. They may have made a different choice had they known there was a risk of being forced onto short-haul.

Regards
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Old 11th Dec 2017, 10:56
  #4229 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: uk
Age: 50
Posts: 89
Binsleepen

Whilst I agree with what you say to a degree I am ex military and ex loco captain.

I drowned in the pool in 2012 and when successful in 2014 I thought long and hard about the longhaul/shorthaul conundrum but after talking to my many ex colleagues about the MSL I decided to take the shorthaul offer, a move I have never regretted despite being nearly 50.

I have just broken 50% on the airbus seniority list and am moving rapidly forward, when I compare my roster to those who joined on the jumbo on the same day, I hate to say it but mine are better.... more time at home and more days off, this is purely due to the fact that I am getting one of my top 5 triplines every month and as a commuter that is invaluable. Who knows what JSS will bring but I am seriously considering not bidding for longhaul until there are more junior pilots below me.

The question is then, is senior shorthaul (letís say 45%) giving a better lifestyle than junior longhaul (90%)???? Remember those joining now on the jumbo will be the most junior pilots on that fleet until it retires - that said if offered take it, enjoy it and welcome to the company.
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Old 11th Dec 2017, 11:17
  #4230 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: London
Posts: 236
I think people who joined the 320 before 2016 have enjoyed unprecedented movement up the seniority list, it has not always been that way and wont be guarantied to be that way in the future. I joined about 16 months ago, started at 95% and thatís where I have stayed not moved one place. 2017 might see some movement but not huge. My point is even on the 320 donít expect rapid progress through the seniority system, so prepare for many years of weekend work and multiple reserves per year (4 in my case).
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Old 11th Dec 2017, 12:56
  #4231 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: uk
Age: 50
Posts: 89
Fair enough Enzo,

The good news is those on the 320 will move up the seniority list, those on the longhaul fleets won’t (or certainly not to the same extent) things get better faster shorthaul than longhaul. I estimate that with 90 FOs moving on from the 320 at LHR we should move up about 20%
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Old 11th Dec 2017, 14:10
  #4232 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Uk
Age: 37
Posts: 379
I think talk of trip lines and rosters as they are now is all well and good but the reality is most joining will only ever see JSS. What do we know about JSS? It would be reasonable to conclude that senior pilots may be able to write their own roster but I hear differing views on that. Junior guys are going to get the crap that is not wanted. Today thatís called a blind line and has some perks but under JSS it will be a zero satisfaction roster which is then optimised so that you work the same cap as the guy who cherry picked the good stuff. I have friends in RYR and EZY who I have not been able to recommend BA too. Just be aware of what BA is that is all
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Old 11th Dec 2017, 14:30
  #4233 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: London
Posts: 39
Anyone know if there have been any other offers apart from the 4 x 747s thatís been discussed?
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Old 11th Dec 2017, 14:50
  #4234 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,354
Originally Posted by bex88 View Post
I think talk of trip lines and rosters as they are now is all well and good but the reality is most joining will only ever see JSS. What do we know about JSS? It would be reasonable to conclude that senior pilots may be able to write their own roster but I hear differing views on that....
All very fair points. Some (guilty as charged) have been banging on for a while about about Bidline, Blindlines, triplines etc being irrelevant in the brave new world starting this coming summer. Itís no good hearing that somebody at the bottom has a Blindline with two plumb trips this December and thinking : ďIíll join and definitely have a bit of that next ChristmasĒ....

Those of us in house and not part of the development team have only just seen the first of the JSS instructional videos BA/BALPA are putting out in reality at this stage know scooby do about how rosters will look like with JSS, how preferencing will really be handled, how skewed or not seniority will make the rosters..as bex says some think the top few percent will be writing their own rosters, others think the preferencing levers will stop that happening and everybody will at least one ďgoodĒ trip..........

Last edited by wiggy; 11th Dec 2017 at 15:01.
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Old 11th Dec 2017, 15:13
  #4235 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 562
I joined British Airways 18 years ago. If I had my time over again, would I have made the same choices? Lately, it pains me to say, I am not convinced I would...

My simple advice to anyone wondering whether to join BA - if there is any doubt, there is no doubt - do not join. One thing I can guarantee you; the company is worse than you think it is. That does not mean it is not better than your current company, and the right choice for some, but you need to be totally convinced it is better. Otherwise, my prediction is you will regret your decision. This might sound negative, but in my opinion, it is the brutal truth. BA is nothing like the company it was even five years ago, never mind twenty.
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Old 11th Dec 2017, 16:20
  #4236 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: France / UK
Age: 64
Posts: 925
I joined British Airways 18 years ago. If I had my time over again, would I have made the same choices? Lately, it pains me to say, I am not convinced I would...
A fair point and obviously reflects your experience.

I joined twenty years ago, aged 42, from a UK charter background with 9 years in command on 737s. Took a huge pay cut and lost two stripes but spent 14 happy years on the 747, then 5 years LHS Airbus and now 18 months LHS 787.

My experience (and maybe yours?) will be difficult for joiners to relate to as the entire demographic and career path has changed. All I can say is I have no regrets and it was the right choice for me but I fully understand why it might not be for others.
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Old 11th Dec 2017, 21:45
  #4237 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 28
Originally Posted by Retrojet View Post
Anyone know if there have been any other offers apart from the 4 x 747s thatís been discussed?
I would love to hear more on this subject as well. I still have fingers and toes crossed that they will keep calling people as soon as they get a few more start dates
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Old 12th Dec 2017, 00:08
  #4238 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: York
Posts: 680
Remember those joining now on the jumbo will be the most junior pilots on that fleet until it retires
A total guess. A wet finger in the air, and no more!

With all the NAPS P2s about to bid for every available command, (including SH!) in order to protect their pensions. I donít imagine thereíll be any shortage of churn.
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Old 12th Dec 2017, 11:10
  #4239 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 34
I'd like to add another more positive reflection to counter the more negative posts PPRuNe tends to attract.

I joined BA 4 years ago. At the time I too wrestled with the prospect of giving up well paid command opportunities at a LoCo to make the move. All I can say is that I am so glad I did.

Everyone has their own needs and wishes, but for me the greatest pleasure has been to explore the world, taking in the sights and culture, having free time for myself, enjoying the food and the occasional party with colleagues. It is a huge privilege that so few people in the world are able to experience. All that alongside a roster bidding and swapping system that allows me to make the most of my family and social life at home.

In short, I am grateful that I can enjoy my life, doing the things that I want to do, rather than continuining with a LoCo job that I personally found repetitive and unsatisfying.

Again, this is just my personal preference. I realise some people are more than happy at a LoCo, and I'm pleased for them. I just wanted to add another perspective. In the end, I find it hard to believe that the lifestyle I describe above was not part of the attraction to the profession for most pilots. If we wanted to be at home every night, then flying was not the obvious choice.

Good luck to everyone who makes the move.
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Old 12th Dec 2017, 11:41
  #4240 (permalink)  
VJW
Sciolist (look it up) of the first order
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 774
Interesting post EllanVannin.

Your reasons for joining are why everyone in the pool applied, especially as I imagine the majority of us applied via the Longhaul DEP application. However, while the LoCo job can be repetitive, I wonder what you'll think in another 20 years with you still living out of a suitcase and spending 50% of your life in the same hotels away from family. Every job gets repetitive eventually. Being mid 30's with children, I find being home every night with my young family far more satisfying than exploring the world without them, and I wasn't in this situation when I jumped into the pool.

You describe the life of a single mid 20 year old though. Of course anyone early to mid 20's who isn't a Captain at a LoCo should jump at the chance to join BA, that is a step up. Unfortunately not everyone is in that situation. Additionally, giving up the 'prospect' of a command doesn't mean anything. You weren't use to the 30-40% additional salary you'd have been paid, or the deduction in household income those of us that are Captains already would have to absorb. Finally, you presumed you'd have passed
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