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Norwegian B737 Pilot selection (Updated)

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Norwegian B737 Pilot selection (Updated)

Old 17th Jan 2019, 21:53
  #1101 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2014
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Originally Posted by lansen View Post
Sadly, this is not fake news. It's all true and also communicated from the company just like this.

The removal of the crew meals and other factors relating to the hotel accommodation is however related to the 737.
The pay cuts however aren't.

The options regarding the pay cuts are apparently:
1: 7% FD / 4% CC
2: 5,8% FD&CC

Nothing is decided there yet however.

Shema Y'Israel.... or what should I say.

Weeeeeeell, according to the NPU - Union for the old "core" i.e. Scandinavia, which will now become the main focus again, as we were making money as other AOCs were loosing it; It was all suggestions, not demands. As such, they will not be accepted either, as we have our agreements.
I feel whole-heartedly for my european colleagues, hope that most will be able to accept a transfer to Scandi or the LH-division.
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Old 18th Jan 2019, 07:11
  #1102 (permalink)  
 
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According BALPA the company is "contemplating" some of these measures. None of the other EURO or SCAN unions have reported this, nor would they ever accept it under any circumstances.
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Old 18th Jan 2019, 07:15
  #1103 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
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Well by the sounds of it Norwegian needs to make these cuts to survive.

Don't except it, or come to a compromise then perhaps you may need to seek alternate employment.
And nobody would want that, Norwegian has excellent guys and girls working for them, and I wish them all the best and hope they come through this stronger

Last edited by Speedbrakes Up; 18th Jan 2019 at 07:16. Reason: Spelling
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Old 18th Jan 2019, 08:38
  #1104 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NWCoast View Post
Weeeeeeell, according to the NPU - Union for the old "core" i.e. Scandinavia, which will now become the main focus again, as we were making money as other AOCs were loosing it; It was all suggestions, not demands. As such, they will not be accepted either, as we have our agreements.
I feel whole-heartedly for my european colleagues, hope that most will be able to accept a transfer to Scandi or the LH-division.
The only reason the other AOCs are losing money and not NAS is purely because of HQ in OSL putting NAS as priority. They have an inability to fix maint issues at a management level, particularly in Spain where NAI has most of its operation. They do not give the authority to NAI or NUK to fix these. They make dreadful decisions and then blame it on the other AOCs. Flight planning is a major problem - no emphasis is made on slot alleviation and that is all down to OSL and not BCN. (BCN do a fantastic job, but again OSL is in charge and and make pig headed and stubborn decisions).

The big problem is OSL HQ and their inability to change the status quo from when they were a small domestic carrier. They are making the whole airline go down. Give full separation to the AOCs and 3/4 of the problems will disappear in a few months.
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Old 18th Jan 2019, 18:10
  #1105 (permalink)  
 
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Nothing to do with the business model and yields no?
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Old 18th Jan 2019, 22:04
  #1106 (permalink)  
 
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And in keeping with the nonsensical decisions it appears theyíre now doubling down on Long Haul (the not at all flawed business model of charging people £170 to fly a brand new 787 10h+ Legs) at the expense of what actually made money for them in the past.

Shades of Monarch when they got out of charters to bet the farm on being a small player on short haul versus RYR and EZY.
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Old 19th Jan 2019, 18:03
  #1107 (permalink)  
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https://www.irishtimes.com/business/...base-1.3763172
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Old 20th Jan 2019, 14:00
  #1108 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by RexBanner View Post
And in keeping with the nonsensical decisions it appears theyíre now doubling down on Long Haul (the not at all flawed business model of charging people £170 to fly a brand new 787 10h+ Legs) at the expense of what actually made money for them in the past.

Shades of Monarch when they got out of charters to bet the farm on being a small player on short haul versus RYR and EZY.
Looks to me like they prepare for a possible BA take over. Closing the short haul bases would prevent any issues with vueling or iberia
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Old 20th Jan 2019, 16:05
  #1109 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Luke258 View Post
Looks to me like they prepare for a possible BA take over. Closing the short haul bases would prevent any issues with vueling or iberia

Totally agree. Closing a few bases/crew rooms isnít gonna save Ä200m, otherwise Ryanair would make a fortune with their 92 bases!

Streamlining for a final IAG offer.. or Lufthansa or Qatar, seems more plausible.
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Old 20th Jan 2019, 17:11
  #1110 (permalink)  
 
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Seriously, what are you talking about? I think youíre living in some sort of fantasy land.

Firstly, IF (and its a big if) an offer is made it will be IAG making it, not BA. Huge difference. IAG have already made an offer and Norwegianís owners turned it down because it wasnít high enough. Are you seriously suggesting that these base closures etc. are somehow going to make IAG offer more for what is effectively a dead duck?! If another offer is forthcoming, Iíd imagine it would be peanuts compared to what came before.

The reality is that the business model has never been sustainable and in all likelihood this is the beginning of the end. Itís always only been a matter of time until the chickens came home to roost. Norwegianís expansion has always come across to me as a huge vanity project for its owners, who canít accept that they havenít magically unlocked a special way of doing things that would make it work for them, where so many others have failed.

Last edited by DuctOvht; 20th Jan 2019 at 17:35.
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Old 20th Jan 2019, 18:03
  #1111 (permalink)  
 
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I am not so sure. The expansion was a race to get the economies of scale required to be able to compete. The days where small low cost airlines could compete are long gone so they HAD to grow or disappear. I would not read too much into the Low Cost long haul. I have used it and is not specially low cost. The low cost tag drives a lot of business to their website so is probably just a clever marketing ploy . Having said that they did try to expand into way too many new markets way too fast and launching a long haul airline is phenomenally expensive. Norwegians have big pockets and a large airline is a good hedge against a large oil company, what people fail to realise is that the Airbus order was to run an aircraft lease business -not to operate- you don't even think of an aircraft lease business without some serious financial backing . I think the CEO is no fool, he has followed a very high risk strategy which may or may not pay off but it has been a conscious decision.
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Old 20th Jan 2019, 18:52
  #1112 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by DuctOvht View Post
Seriously, what are you talking about? I think youíre living in some sort of fantasy land.

Firstly, IF (and its a big if) an offer is made it will be IAG making it, not BA. Huge difference. IAG have already made an offer and Norwegianís owners turned it down because it wasnít high enough. Are you seriously suggesting that these base closures etc. are somehow going to make IAG offer more for what is effectively a dead duck?! If another offer is forthcoming, Iíd imagine it would be peanuts compared to what came before.

The reality is that the business model has never been sustainable and in all likelihood this is the beginning of the end. Itís always only been a matter of time until the chickens came home to roost. Norwegianís expansion has always come across to me as a huge vanity project for its owners, who canít accept that they havenít magically unlocked a special way of doing things that would make it work for them, where so many others have failed.
Yes, my mistake, obviously it'd be IAG not BA. Nonetheless, where's your argument? You're giving some personal opinions, and the possibilites are thrown off as "fantasy land"?

First of all IAG bought roughly 5% of stock of Norwegian. This allowed them to have a look at the books. Also since the stock price went up, Norwegians worth grew. A possible take-over of Lufthansa/Eurowings was therefore too expensive. If IAG wants to buy Norwegian, they'd probably aim for the Longhaul fleet. They wouldn't want Norwegian compete with Vueling, Iberia and Air Lingus in the short haul segment. Also most likely that wouldn't be allowed by the European Union as IAG would own large parts of the market then. On the other hand they'd have a good position against Lufthansa and Airfrance/KLM. On the other hand Norwegian would be interesting for Lufthansa/Eurowings. With a take-over they'd expand the network significantly throughout Europe. So tell me again I am living in a fantasy land. I am not saying it will happen. From my personal perspective it looks like that will happen, since Norwegian closed the spanish bases and also FCO.
Of course in the end it can turn out very differently. But I fail to see where closing short haul bases that (according to many people) were making money, saves Norwegian the desired amount of money.

Also before you act like you know everything better. Buying an airline isn't just about the business model, it's also about aircraft, crew, passengers and slots.
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Old 20th Jan 2019, 19:35
  #1113 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by DuctOvht View Post
Seriously, what are you talking about? I think youíre living in some sort of fantasy land.

Firstly, IF (and its a big if) an offer is made it will be IAG making it, not BA. Huge difference. IAG have already made an offer and Norwegianís owners turned it down because it wasnít high enough. Are you seriously suggesting that these base closures etc. are somehow going to make IAG offer more for what is effectively a dead duck?! If another offer is forthcoming, Iíd imagine it would be peanuts compared to what came before.

The reality is that the business model has never been sustainable and in all likelihood this is the beginning of the end. Itís always only been a matter of time until the chickens came home to roost. Norwegianís expansion has always come across to me as a huge vanity project for its owners, who canít accept that they havenít magically unlocked a special way of doing things that would make it work for them, where so many others have failed.
Its the end of the beginning. Do you seriously believe a professional like Willie Walsh, of whom even MOL is showing his respect, would make a move, place two consecutive bids, one higher than the other, literally month before the whole thing went bang?
In any acquisition, you are looking at the assets but much, much more importantly the future value and yield of the investment. The business idea and current product is highly sought after, pax and investors alike. Lufthansa has confirmed interest this summer, and latest news suggest them buying a "listening post" of the shares. I would also look very closely towards Ryanair and MOL in the coming weeks. IAG is defiantly not alone...
Also many posters in here forget the fact that Ryanair and EasyJet only grew truly profitable once they reached their cricital mass. It takes time and it costs money, Norwegian is not there yet and might not need to be in the SH market. Once the LH low-cost is settled in the market, it will be a cash cow.
Regarding the base closures, some things work, some things don't. I truly feel sad for the crew down there, but if you take the CC, most would be able to work 50 percent work pattern out of Oslo and still make the same they did working 100 percent in LPA, TFS, PMI
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Old 20th Jan 2019, 19:56
  #1114 (permalink)  
 
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I donít think you understand the way IAG works. I donít think any of us fully do, but if you think theyíll come charging over the horizon to make everything alright for Norweigianís employees youíre very much mistaken.

Regarding your last point, the business model doesnít work so is largely irrelevant. The 737ís are the wrong aircraft type and have no synergy with any IAG airline, with all the crews having the wrong rating. Expensive to rectify. The slots, why pay for them when theyíll likely be on the open market in a few months? Critically though, you forgot to include that any purchase includes the massive debt & future liabilities.

When I said youíre living in a fantasy world, it was in regard to the notion that the closure of a few bases is somehow going to mean IAG will make another offer. IAG have so much money right now that buying 5% of the shares could easily have been a rounding error in the books. They took a look, made an offer and when it was rejected walked away and didnít come back. Iíve no doubt that should they wish, they could buy it 10 times over and not bat an eyelid. Thatís not a good thing, but a sad fact.

More worryingly for Norweigian, I donít see anyone else falling over themselves to make an offer. Confirmations of interest mean absolutely nothing. I would also not put much truck on anything Lufthansa have to say...ask any ex-bmi employee about that. It looks like the only assets worth having are the 787ís...if there was anything else, there would be a bun fight for it. There isnít.

Much of it is my opinion, but opinions formed around the assessment of plenty of others, both within the industry, and outside commentators. That said, Iím out. Clearly I wonít change your mind and nor am I trying to...only time will tell which of us is right.

Last edited by DuctOvht; 20th Jan 2019 at 20:26.
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Old 20th Jan 2019, 21:36
  #1115 (permalink)  
 
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Could this recent base closures be designed to make an offer more acceptable to a prospective buyer in terms of EU competition law?

Or even, trim the company to "form fits" for whomever is taking it on? Saves liabilities for the new owner to take on then have to pay out settlements.
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Old 21st Jan 2019, 07:54
  #1116 (permalink)  
 
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From rte.ie :

In relation to the future of Norwegian Airlines in which IAG has bought a 4.6% stake, Mr Walsh said his group remains interested in buying the low cost carrier, but would not engage in a bidding war.

He said Norwegian is a good brand, has an interesting network and while it is struggling financially today it is not beyond people to resolve that.

"That means Norwegian will be a different Norwegian than it is," he said.

"It could be part of another group or they will downsize, so I don't buy into the idea that Norwegian disappears. I think Norwegian in some form will continue."

He said IAG, which already owns Iberia, Aer Lingus, British Airways and others, has taken a view and expressed an interest in Norwegian because it wants to expand into that market.
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Old 21st Jan 2019, 09:04
  #1117 (permalink)  
 
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As I said, what IAG says and what IAG does can often be 2 different things entirely.

They are ruthless.
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Old 21st Jan 2019, 10:13
  #1118 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by DuctOvht View Post
As I said, what IAG says and what IAG does can often be 2 different things entirely.

They are ruthless.
It looks exactly like that. Now iberia express opened vacancy for cabin crew in PMI, LPA and TFS. They do not have bases there and vacancy came up the day after norwegian announced 3 base closures in Spain...
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Old 21st Jan 2019, 19:52
  #1119 (permalink)  
 
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Base closures does not mean the routes are being closed, but just being flown from somewhere else.

Many of those routes was flown from a base in the north before being ďturned aroundĒ.

In the guessing game IAG vs. Lufthansa maybe taking Norwegian over, Lufthansa will probably be the better option.
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Old 22nd Jan 2019, 16:33
  #1120 (permalink)  
 
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In my opinion there are a lot of pointers towards an aquisition by a larger group, perhaps IAG 😏
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