Ryanair exodus, what is the plan?
The point that's often missed about the 45 minute report time is that it enables certain duty days (usually with 4 sectors or more) which would be off limits if the report time is an hour, or even more, before STD.
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Tiredness is arguably a bigger issue than chronic fatigue
If we are already exhaust while on day one on earlies - and this is the case for me on a long 4 sector duty - just because it is not possible for everybody to fall asleep at 8 pm after you were used to do so at 1am for the previous 9 days - then this is an issue by itself. And, correct me if I am wrong (I have to admit I was not listening really carefully at the propaganda video during last RST), but this is tiredness.
When you say:
Generally it works. I go to work hoping the other guy has had a decent night's sleep on my day one of earlies.
We are two pilots, right, but in commercial aviation everything works on redundancy. Two engines because if one fail, still we can menage somehow to take the ship back on safe ground. So, on the same principle, I would say there is a need for two pilot not because the normality is like you were saying:
We have two people on the flight deck (one of whom MOL would like to see replaced by cabin crew 
), both are tired, trying to catch each other's mistakes
), both are tired, trying to catch each other's mistakes
So, in my opinion, fatigue is a big problem, but here, in the current aviation FTL, we are already pushed way too much on every single day, and even further in the rolling 28 days. Especially in LoCo world, and even further in Ryanair, where, as fireflybob was rightly stating:
The point that's often missed about the 45 minute report time is that it enables certain duty days (usually with 4 sectors or more) which would be off limits if the report time is an hour, or even more, before STD.
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The amount of work we have to do was one of the main reasons I resigned. I was destroying myself, I couldn't do it anymore.
I submitted a few SAIR's over the years about fatigue and never heard a thing back.
I haven't flown an aircraft for 6 weeks (whilst waiting for my UK ATPL to be re-issued) and it feels great. Ryanair crushed any enjoyment I had flying.
I start somewhere nice soon, I will perhaps let you chaps know what the difference is.
£5000 - £6000 a month was just not enough to keep me in the left hand seat. I look back now and can't believe what we had to do on a daily basis.
For all you still there attempting to escape, good luck. You must do it sooner rather than later.
I submitted a few SAIR's over the years about fatigue and never heard a thing back.
I haven't flown an aircraft for 6 weeks (whilst waiting for my UK ATPL to be re-issued) and it feels great. Ryanair crushed any enjoyment I had flying.
I start somewhere nice soon, I will perhaps let you chaps know what the difference is.
£5000 - £6000 a month was just not enough to keep me in the left hand seat. I look back now and can't believe what we had to do on a daily basis.
For all you still there attempting to escape, good luck. You must do it sooner rather than later.
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No problem Vexed, I have understood perfectly your point, and I agree with you. It was just to make my view a bit clearer.
Mine too
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Ryanair crushed any enjoyment I had flying.
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Also the fact that when sent out of base, it´s not taken in to account as positioning/duty time (on your OFF day). So, in may cases when you are asigned a duty in a different base it takes you physicaly one day to get there or you might even have to travel on the same day that you have to work. And equaly the same applies to get back to your home base. Thus your 5/4 roster becomes a 6/3 or even a 7/2. This is not reflected on your roster and never will be as you would certainly would be out of duty time!!! Ryanair states and specifies in one manual (A) what a base is what positioning is and what is duty time this, is certainly not taken into account!!
As you all know, I did preface my comments with the phrase 'playing the Devil's Advocate'. Perhaps this ruffled a few feathers: for which I apologise.
Sadly it has become quite clear that EASA, the IAA and FR are keen to downplay fatigue in the industry. Paradoxically, this is actually proven by the emphasis on fatigue in the last RST. They know it's a problem. They are pretending it's our problem. The only part of that video that wasn't bovine excrement was the announcement that our tiredness is regarded as wholly our fault by the powers that be.
Sadly it has become quite clear that EASA, the IAA and FR are keen to downplay fatigue in the industry. Paradoxically, this is actually proven by the emphasis on fatigue in the last RST. They know it's a problem. They are pretending it's our problem. The only part of that video that wasn't bovine excrement was the announcement that our tiredness is regarded as wholly our fault by the powers that be.
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repa do? Go on strike and you'll immediately loose your job 
Try to put lawyers behind MOL's ass and you'll be sent to Kaunas with no chance to become a captain.
The best solution is to send a CV to British Airways...and pass the interviews.
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I think the ' low-cost ' house of cards will come crashing down sooner than most of us think.
Long term fatigue and stress eats away at your brain relatively unnoticed until it goes all wobbly. I know of a few folks in other professions as well as our own who have fallen off the perch due to a nervous breakdown never to recover, and their history is just like the stuff that is effecting RYR pilots at the moment :
Fatigue
No control over your life
screwed up family life
trying to do the impossible ( 25 minute turnarounds, hanging on to that turd for 12 hours, 5 days in a gut splitting row )
constant testing and checking
fear of the sack
big consequences for missing little things
idiotic procedures introduced by egotistic management orks who love to humiliate pilots
etc., etc..
If the number of personal injury claims due to psychological disorders starts mounting up the business model will collapse and we'll all be off to the sand pit begging for the ' privilege ' of being strapped into a seat for hours of intense boredom.
Long term fatigue and stress eats away at your brain relatively unnoticed until it goes all wobbly. I know of a few folks in other professions as well as our own who have fallen off the perch due to a nervous breakdown never to recover, and their history is just like the stuff that is effecting RYR pilots at the moment :
Fatigue
No control over your life
screwed up family life
trying to do the impossible ( 25 minute turnarounds, hanging on to that turd for 12 hours, 5 days in a gut splitting row )
constant testing and checking
fear of the sack
big consequences for missing little things
idiotic procedures introduced by egotistic management orks who love to humiliate pilots
etc., etc..
If the number of personal injury claims due to psychological disorders starts mounting up the business model will collapse and we'll all be off to the sand pit begging for the ' privilege ' of being strapped into a seat for hours of intense boredom.
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Why not just turn up 45 minutes before. If it doesn't work then, hey! Of course you all have to do it to make it work, but beats striking or leaving your family for familiar looking grass!
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Man it's all getting very negative on here!
Wind check...you're entitled to your opinion...but this is the sort of attitude that has allowed management to run roughshod over the pilots for too long now.
This post has attracted over 1,000 replies and over 278,000 views! If a fraction of those numbers stood up and joined IALPA then we might have a chance to improve things.
Not everyone can go to BA or other legacy carriers, not everyone wants to go the sandpit or do long haul etc. Personally, I think that with a few fairly straight forward changes (leave, basing policy etc.), Ryanair could be one of the best jobs around.....shoot me down if you will, I guess it all depends what you want out of the job. Of course, the biggest attitude of all to change is that of the management, and that will only happen if they are forced to negotiate with a union and cohesive Pilot group. I urge all my colleagues to unite against a few greedy, selfish and egotistical individuals, (mascarading as professional managers/executives) and please consider joining REPA and IALPA and work towards a better future.
Happy & safe flying!
PS - When I heard on the news that the police had raided a pikey settlement and released a group of mixed nationalities forced into slavery, I thought it was Dublin HQ....turns out to be travellers in Leighton buzzard!
Wind check...you're entitled to your opinion...but this is the sort of attitude that has allowed management to run roughshod over the pilots for too long now.
This post has attracted over 1,000 replies and over 278,000 views! If a fraction of those numbers stood up and joined IALPA then we might have a chance to improve things.
Not everyone can go to BA or other legacy carriers, not everyone wants to go the sandpit or do long haul etc. Personally, I think that with a few fairly straight forward changes (leave, basing policy etc.), Ryanair could be one of the best jobs around.....shoot me down if you will, I guess it all depends what you want out of the job. Of course, the biggest attitude of all to change is that of the management, and that will only happen if they are forced to negotiate with a union and cohesive Pilot group. I urge all my colleagues to unite against a few greedy, selfish and egotistical individuals, (mascarading as professional managers/executives) and please consider joining REPA and IALPA and work towards a better future.
Happy & safe flying!
PS - When I heard on the news that the police had raided a pikey settlement and released a group of mixed nationalities forced into slavery, I thought it was Dublin HQ....turns out to be travellers in Leighton buzzard!
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If in the CRL base the pilots decide on a strike, approved by an official trade union (like REPA should be/become), FR can not fire anyone. FR must abide Belgian law. It is very simple really. One starts his/hers work in Belgium (crewroom) and not on a FR EI-registered aircraft so irish law is void.
A total block is the only solution to get better conditions in FR I'm afraid. It is very unfortunate for the passengers, but management only hears when the wallet is hurting.
A total block is the only solution to get better conditions in FR I'm afraid. It is very unfortunate for the passengers, but management only hears when the wallet is hurting.
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I have read all the posts with interest here and want to raise a few points:
I don't think fatigue is a big issue, after all I'm sure some of you have seen a charter roster or a mixed fleet roster? Ryr is no different from any other airline in the fact that we are shift workers, it's human nature to be dog tired and it is up to us to manage that as best we can. I agree that tiredness is something to be addresses but it needs to be addressed for all companies. Ask some of the baby guys how hard they work with a random roster, do they complain?
There are far more pressing issues unique to ryr that should be given more attention. The questionable contracts, illegal self employment, the costly Rostering department wasting thousands of euros a day with needless out of base work, the non-transparent basing policy, the lack of compassion by employers to employees.
Anyone worked out their gross pay recently? I'm 15000 pounds worse off than most other 737 fo's!!
Food for thought.
Edited for spag
I don't think fatigue is a big issue, after all I'm sure some of you have seen a charter roster or a mixed fleet roster? Ryr is no different from any other airline in the fact that we are shift workers, it's human nature to be dog tired and it is up to us to manage that as best we can. I agree that tiredness is something to be addresses but it needs to be addressed for all companies. Ask some of the baby guys how hard they work with a random roster, do they complain?
There are far more pressing issues unique to ryr that should be given more attention. The questionable contracts, illegal self employment, the costly Rostering department wasting thousands of euros a day with needless out of base work, the non-transparent basing policy, the lack of compassion by employers to employees.
Anyone worked out their gross pay recently? I'm 15000 pounds worse off than most other 737 fo's!!
Food for thought.
Edited for spag
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Vexed, no problem, feel free to tell me bull**** I am not offended with your post in any case ahahah
Despegue, People with a brookfield contract may be fired with no reason from one day to another. People with an Irish Ryanair contract will be sent to another base and won't see their command upgrade coming or/and will get lots of unpaid standbys on their roster instead of flying and earning the wage they aim. Soooo it is strongly recommended not to break MOL's balls otherwise the people who wants to try will sink down to hell.
Ryanair business model is extremely well designed. The managers are the kings, the workers are the slaves and passengers are happy to go on holidays for peanuts.
Workers knew those rules from their first contact with the company during the interviews. There is no surprise.
Despegue, People with a brookfield contract may be fired with no reason from one day to another. People with an Irish Ryanair contract will be sent to another base and won't see their command upgrade coming or/and will get lots of unpaid standbys on their roster instead of flying and earning the wage they aim. Soooo it is strongly recommended not to break MOL's balls otherwise the people who wants to try will sink down to hell.
Ryanair business model is extremely well designed. The managers are the kings, the workers are the slaves and passengers are happy to go on holidays for peanuts.
Workers knew those rules from their first contact with the company during the interviews. There is no surprise.
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Wind check: tell everyone what exactly you want, or go away. You sound just like dear departed MOLGenius (no posts since march..).
As far as i can tell it's just noise.
"You signed the contract" (duck..)
"You all had it coming" (duck..)
"You've ruined everything" (duck..)
It all gets old pretty quick.
As far as i can tell it's just noise.
"You signed the contract" (duck..)
"You all had it coming" (duck..)
"You've ruined everything" (duck..)
It all gets old pretty quick.
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Its actually good to see windcheck 'DOB' and MOLG 'EW' on here.
they must have problems getting onto REPA lately so they have to spoute their greedy crap on here.
Reality is Ladies and Gents the more these attacks come the more we are starting to get places on REPA !
Despegue REPA will never become a union most of us know that because the slander and propaganda that is spouted from management will be done the same about any union IALPA or BALPA It is your suceptibility to it that matters!
Their is so much to be gained for all Ryanair pilots for unionisation of the company and absolutely nothing to loose.
You will get a pay rise with a union.
You will be treated fairly!
You will have a proper basing policy !
You will have a proper pension !
You will have legal protection! especially important if you have a liability clause in your contract! Do you ?
You will be an employee! Not a sub contracter!
Read the Ryanair pilots agreement on REPA created by Ryanair pilots!
The stark reality is you are involved in an industrial war in Ryanair between management and the workers wether you choose to take part or not!
JOIN IALPA Ryanair pilots!Join REPA !
they must have problems getting onto REPA lately so they have to spoute their greedy crap on here.
Reality is Ladies and Gents the more these attacks come the more we are starting to get places on REPA !
Despegue REPA will never become a union most of us know that because the slander and propaganda that is spouted from management will be done the same about any union IALPA or BALPA It is your suceptibility to it that matters!
Their is so much to be gained for all Ryanair pilots for unionisation of the company and absolutely nothing to loose.
You will get a pay rise with a union.
You will be treated fairly!
You will have a proper basing policy !
You will have a proper pension !
You will have legal protection! especially important if you have a liability clause in your contract! Do you ?
You will be an employee! Not a sub contracter!
Read the Ryanair pilots agreement on REPA created by Ryanair pilots!
The stark reality is you are involved in an industrial war in Ryanair between management and the workers wether you choose to take part or not!
JOIN IALPA Ryanair pilots!Join REPA !