Ryanair exodus, what is the plan?
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Ryanair exodus, what is the plan?
Hello,
Does somebody has any ideas of what FR will do to stop the exodus of experienced FO and newly captain to the sandpit? I heard between 100 and 200 has already resign and probably more to come...I think that to reestablish the senior first officer salary for FO and remove the 10% pay cut and give the base you request for the new captain would be a minimum...But I don't know why I have the feeling that FR don't see the seriousness of the situation and will head toward the wall shouting a big
Good evening
Does somebody has any ideas of what FR will do to stop the exodus of experienced FO and newly captain to the sandpit? I heard between 100 and 200 has already resign and probably more to come...I think that to reestablish the senior first officer salary for FO and remove the 10% pay cut and give the base you request for the new captain would be a minimum...But I don't know why I have the feeling that FR don't see the seriousness of the situation and will head toward the wall shouting a big
Good evening
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The cunning plan Jupilair is for O'leary to paint 'Bye Bye Emirates' on all it's 737s !!
Thereby ensuring that Emirates goes bankrupt, " pilots!" lose their jobs and they come running back to Ryanair for a salary less than a Her Majesty's tea lady.
Good evening.
Thereby ensuring that Emirates goes bankrupt, "
pilots!" lose their jobs and they come running back to Ryanair for a salary less than a Her Majesty's tea lady.Good evening.
Last edited by Blue-Footed Boobie; 27th Jul 2010 at 00:02.
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Blue footed booby, thank you very much for the good laugh. It's a good try from Mol but most likely soon there will be a note on an Ek 777 "merhaba Ryanair aerosexual" followed soon by a note on an A380 "Inshallah Ryanair".
You can already see the influence of Ek in Dub with the white elephant terminal...(heard FR try to find a name for it...why not "the nearly like T3 but with really less passengers"?)
Good evening
You can already see the influence of Ek in Dub with the white elephant terminal...(heard FR try to find a name for it...why not "the nearly like T3 but with really less passengers"?)
Good evening
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Ohh the exodus to EK, a walk out en mass! Really?? 100-200 people. There's a big discrepancy between 100 and 200? I heard 10 so far, 10 who have firm offers from EK. There will probably be more; and of course, why not? But enough to see the management at FR bitting their finger nails and wondering how they will replace all those expensive BRK FOs (whom I believe the majority of those leaving for the sandpit will be?) Don't see that happening. 100 'senior' FOs could walk tomorrow. Sure in the long run it ***** FR with the CU process. Short term, they won't bat an eyelid! 100 Captains in the middle of the summer season would be an entirely different equation! 
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Frying pan & fire sums it up if you believe even half of the anti-Emirates rants on the ME forum.
The time to go to the sandpit was probably a decade or two ago, strikes me as fools gold, but not even enough of it.
No doubt there are enough "aerosexuals" with size issues, maybe they should look at the bigger picture, all IMHO of course.
The time to go to the sandpit was probably a decade or two ago, strikes me as fools gold, but not even enough of it.
No doubt there are enough "aerosexuals" with size issues, maybe they should look at the bigger picture, all IMHO of course.
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It was reported that EK need at least 700 pilots. FR has by my quick maths around 3000 pilots (250ish airframes times 6 crews). No HR department in their right mind would hire exclusively from one airline so don't expect them to fill all the slots from FR. Likewise if BA and Virgin start recruiting don't expect them to target FR solely.
I can't see that any loss of pilots will really cause MOL any problems. There are enough people willing to pay to fly to fill his courses up for years to come. Sure his experience base might be depleted but this has never worried him in the past. He has loads of airframes parked up anyway and his pilots are not working that hard at the moment in anycase. A bit of tweaking with the roster would pick up any slack and bring a smile to the eye of the BRK contractors as their pay packets increase.
Given that funding is difficult to find I am surprised that MOL hasn't offered a scheme similar to CTC where he effectively screws the candidate out of more money through paying back career loans in addition to a salary/hourly rate sacrifice. It would lock in the pilot in the absence of having any cash to be able to buy themself out of the "deal".
I can't see that any loss of pilots will really cause MOL any problems. There are enough people willing to pay to fly to fill his courses up for years to come. Sure his experience base might be depleted but this has never worried him in the past. He has loads of airframes parked up anyway and his pilots are not working that hard at the moment in anycase. A bit of tweaking with the roster would pick up any slack and bring a smile to the eye of the BRK contractors as their pay packets increase.
Given that funding is difficult to find I am surprised that MOL hasn't offered a scheme similar to CTC where he effectively screws the candidate out of more money through paying back career loans in addition to a salary/hourly rate sacrifice. It would lock in the pilot in the absence of having any cash to be able to buy themself out of the "deal".
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Who ever said Ryanair has a plan to deal with the upcoming pilot shortage, ("and I say use the term upcoming very loosly as it appears they are short at the moment).
For sure, O'Leary missed the boat ordering those new planes! His business plan is based on aggresive expansion...and for the sake of not spending an extra few euro after his recent scrap with Boeing, he has let his competitors get back at him. There are whisperings that a 787 order is in the running .... Who cares ! Boeings Order Book is nearly as thick as MOLS wallet; Boeing are not interested in RYR unless they willing to pay up. Ryanair got lucky with that cheap order from Boeing those years back, and thats all it was , LUCK, not skill. Boeing were desperate at the time...
Tides are turning, and MOL will be on the back foot very soon...
Before Mickey slips on his PJ's and attempts to have a peaceful sleep tonight he should think about this :
MOL you are now in the big leagues my son ! People are not going to tolerate this school yard bully boy tactics for much longer...If there is no new plane delivery on the cards or there is no attempt to improve the deal with existing pilots, you will be in deep S H 1 T. People will leave, shareholders will wonder why you have got the airline into the situation where it has to ground planes, and Sir there is only one person to blame here, couldnt happen to a nicer fella
For sure, O'Leary missed the boat ordering those new planes! His business plan is based on aggresive expansion...and for the sake of not spending an extra few euro after his recent scrap with Boeing, he has let his competitors get back at him. There are whisperings that a 787 order is in the running .... Who cares ! Boeings Order Book is nearly as thick as MOLS wallet; Boeing are not interested in RYR unless they willing to pay up. Ryanair got lucky with that cheap order from Boeing those years back, and thats all it was , LUCK, not skill. Boeing were desperate at the time...
Tides are turning, and MOL will be on the back foot very soon...
Before Mickey slips on his PJ's and attempts to have a peaceful sleep tonight he should think about this :
MOL you are now in the big leagues my son ! People are not going to tolerate this school yard bully boy tactics for much longer...If there is no new plane delivery on the cards or there is no attempt to improve the deal with existing pilots, you will be in deep S H 1 T. People will leave, shareholders will wonder why you have got the airline into the situation where it has to ground planes, and Sir there is only one person to blame here, couldnt happen to a nicer fella
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For sure, O'Leary missed the boat ordering those new planes!
Don't believe the fluff coming from Farnborough about some airlines buying aircraft on credit. These orders will evaporate into thin air once the credit used to back them disappears. MOL (and some other low-costs) have plenty of cash, are still profitable and can wait for the double dip recession to start biting when they are ready to place their orders.
As much as I dislike MOL (and his other low-life-low-cost management buddies), stupid they are not! Give it one more year for the world to be back into a recession, then give it one to two more years for Boeing or Airbus to beg RyanScare or Sleazy to "please please please" order some airplanes just to avoid mass redundancies and closure of production lines...
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Where does mol park his "spare" planes up? do they go to the desert?
FR has by my quick maths around 3000 pilots (250ish airframes times 6 crews).
As for orders for 787
usual company spin introduced when the possibility of large movement afoot. If and it's a pretty damn big "if" ryr goes for large jets it will 777 and there will be loads of them parked soon enough with the 787 starting full production soon enough.
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Bia,
very interested in your comments. To my knowledge there has been NO "COMPANY" spin with regard to a possible order of 787s, so how can you be sure that they would go for 777. Have you got this on good authority?
The fuel savings alone expected from brand new shiny 787 would I reckon be the forbidden fruit MOL would want to have a bite at.
Back to the point of this thread however:
MOL is facing a pilot shortage as we speak, and things are NOT going to get better for this guy if he keeps treating people like dirt.
If the shareholders want this airline to continue to grow into the future and not be left behind, either MOL shapes up or ships out !!!
very interested in your comments. To my knowledge there has been NO "COMPANY" spin with regard to a possible order of 787s, so how can you be sure that they would go for 777. Have you got this on good authority?
The fuel savings alone expected from brand new shiny 787 would I reckon be the forbidden fruit MOL would want to have a bite at.
Back to the point of this thread however:
MOL is facing a pilot shortage as we speak, and things are NOT going to get better for this guy if he keeps treating people like dirt.
If the shareholders want this airline to continue to grow into the future and not be left behind, either MOL shapes up or ships out !!!
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Seems like there could be some truth in this rumour .....
Allegedly, Flt Ops management honcho PB and personnel sidekick have been touring some of the RYR bases on a charm offensive trying to persuade the 2500 hours SFO's (i.e. those ripe for command upgrade) to stay.
Seems like they are less than enamoured with the prospect of a left seat in a foreign base on a 5 on 3 off roster that doesn't allow them to commute back to UK on days off, and a basic salary lower than previously offered.
Allegedly, Flt Ops management honcho PB and personnel sidekick have been touring some of the RYR bases on a charm offensive trying to persuade the 2500 hours SFO's (i.e. those ripe for command upgrade) to stay.
Seems like they are less than enamoured with the prospect of a left seat in a foreign base on a 5 on 3 off roster that doesn't allow them to commute back to UK on days off, and a basic salary lower than previously offered.
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Lets get some commonsense going here .
Of course young captains with the low-costs are going to jump ship and accept RHS with Emirates . They know they cannot face 30 years plus flying RYR . A few years RHS learning the ropes of longhaul , nightflights , monsoons , crap ATC etc while working for arguably the worlds most successful airline , is a small price to pay . By the time they are 40 they will have 'made it' for the 2nd time and left behind those fortunate enough to have got into BA / VS etc .
As for Ryanair , they will still be providing young wannabees with the chance to get into jets , and will have many of their current crop approaching command status .
The door may revolve a bit faster , training costs may escalate somewhat , but Ryanair will never run out of crew.
Of course young captains with the low-costs are going to jump ship and accept RHS with Emirates . They know they cannot face 30 years plus flying RYR . A few years RHS learning the ropes of longhaul , nightflights , monsoons , crap ATC etc while working for arguably the worlds most successful airline , is a small price to pay . By the time they are 40 they will have 'made it' for the 2nd time and left behind those fortunate enough to have got into BA / VS etc .
As for Ryanair , they will still be providing young wannabees with the chance to get into jets , and will have many of their current crop approaching command status .
The door may revolve a bit faster , training costs may escalate somewhat , but Ryanair will never run out of crew.
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Lets ust get one thing straight..... when FR are forced to cancel flights, this does NOT constitute "exceptional circumstances", that would allow FR to avoid paying compensation to the stranded pax.
Get the refunds ready, it's going to be a long, hot, (stranded!!), summer!
Get the refunds ready, it's going to be a long, hot, (stranded!!), summer!
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Overheard in STN: about 50 FR pilots already heading for the sandpit and apparently about half are Captains...
Considering the EK hiring drive only started a couple of months ago and that most of the candidates are still to go through the selection I think those numbers can only get bigger and bigger.....
Considering the EK hiring drive only started a couple of months ago and that most of the candidates are still to go through the selection I think those numbers can only get bigger and bigger.....
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POTKETTLEBLACK
and too add where do you get the idea the crews are not working hard? I am doing nearly 5 days every roster, all captains I know are working all 5 days! and most people I talk too are the same.
so I ask you?
and too add where do you get the idea the crews are not working hard? I am doing nearly 5 days every roster, all captains I know are working all 5 days! and most people I talk too are the same.
so I ask you?
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All your points are valid ,but I am still correct in saying that RYR will find a way . One thing you can count on with MOL is that he WILL react to any threat / trend that he needs to.
Perhaps I omitted to mention the bleeding obvious that RYR take 250 hr wonders , and EK / EY / QR do not , they want the RYR guys with 2500 tt ( whatever it is ) which dovetails nicely with the gap to the RYR requirement for upgrade .
I suspect that RYR quite like their older skippers ( but would never admit it ) as they are less likely to move. Hardly surprising that they are ALWAYS looking for DECs despite their large contingent of suitable upgrades on the spot.
The good news is that the Gulf carriers insatiable demand for drivers is already starting the next 'shortage ' of pilots . In '88 BA started recruiting and it started a huge movement of pilots at every level of experience .This is a very similar scenario .
Todays newspapers / news are full of how airlines such as Singapore are experiencing quite startling growth and that the worlds airlines are looking at
good overall ( collective ) profits and growth for this year , despite the doom-mongers of only a few months ago.
Perhaps I omitted to mention the bleeding obvious that RYR take 250 hr wonders , and EK / EY / QR do not , they want the RYR guys with 2500 tt ( whatever it is ) which dovetails nicely with the gap to the RYR requirement for upgrade .
I suspect that RYR quite like their older skippers ( but would never admit it ) as they are less likely to move. Hardly surprising that they are ALWAYS looking for DECs despite their large contingent of suitable upgrades on the spot.
The good news is that the Gulf carriers insatiable demand for drivers is already starting the next 'shortage ' of pilots . In '88 BA started recruiting and it started a huge movement of pilots at every level of experience .This is a very similar scenario .
Todays newspapers / news are full of how airlines such as Singapore are experiencing quite startling growth and that the worlds airlines are looking at
good overall ( collective ) profits and growth for this year , despite the doom-mongers of only a few months ago.