Ryanair exodus, what is the plan?
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Unreg 737
The difference being that having already paid between EURO 40-90,000 on initial training you have to add another EU 30k for TR, then during training you have to pay rent/hotel bills etc while on zero salary, and then a reduced salary until line training finished. Is a a new FO really going to be able to give their all to flying the aircraft while wondering how he's going to pay his next loan repayment, mortgage/rent payment, leccy bill, car loan etc? And don't get me started on P2F!!!!
But of course most cadets don't actually have to pay these loan payments as mummy and daddy have sacrifced the equity on their homes and put at risk the biggest asset they have worked for 9-5 for most of their lives.
Anyway I digress, the jist of this is the eroding terms and conditions. You were all MOL disciples when you forked out for the TR, all of you being pieces of the crazy Ryanair jig-saw that you saw through rose tinted spectacles.
Now your love affair with MOL has ended you are acting like crazy, jilted women, whining about how FR are not the airline you fell in love with. You were all part of the jig-saw so shut up and deal with it.
Please tell me where the difference is between a bond for 3 years on a reduced salary and paying for the TR upfront on a full salary
But of course most cadets don't actually have to pay these loan payments as mummy and daddy have sacrifced the equity on their homes and put at risk the biggest asset they have worked for 9-5 for most of their lives.
Anyway I digress, the jist of this is the eroding terms and conditions. You were all MOL disciples when you forked out for the TR, all of you being pieces of the crazy Ryanair jig-saw that you saw through rose tinted spectacles.
Now your love affair with MOL has ended you are acting like crazy, jilted women, whining about how FR are not the airline you fell in love with. You were all part of the jig-saw so shut up and deal with it.
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MOLG you just don't get it do you? If you had half a brain on you you would of done the sums but because I am nice and i like to help stupid people below are the figures which I ran through before taking the job at FR
Here is an example for you.....bearing in mind both cadets have forked out for the same training so we can disregard that!
Cadet at thomas cook
Yr1 - £30,000 BEFORE TAX
Yr2 - £32,000 BEFORE TAX
Yr3 - £34,000 BEFORE TAX
Total - £96,000 BEFORE TAX
At Ryanair
£20,000 upfront for TR - If you were a good negotiator you would probably be paying 2.5% interest so over the 3 years that is £1500 for the three years roughly!
Then as for the salary - yes i lived of baked beams for a month or so whilst i got myself settled. there are very cheap bnb's in most of FR bases. so as for my salary working on some rough numbers hear but i fly on average 750 hours a year...
Yr1 - I worked 11 months (i passed my line check within a month) on a rate of 687 hours @ E75 = 51,500
Yr2 - 56350
Yr3 - oo my rate went up at the end of last year because i had 1500hours but to be nice to you MOLG i will leave it at the same rate = 56350
Total before tax = E164,200 convert that into pounds (I will also give you a good rate MOLG of 0.7 (over the past few years it has been well above that got up to 0.85 and therefore increasing my salary by 15% but we wont try and complicate things for you too much MOLG)
So my total earnings before tax come to £114,940 oh minus the £1500 for the interest and £20000 for the TR comes to £93,440...this is not to mention the tax benefits you can take from offsetting your TR and maybe not declaring a few hundred hours (should you choose to do so!)
MOLG look at the facts before you come on here and moan about us complaining. You say the same BS about how we should just take it in the a5s because we signed the contracts when in actual fact it made perfect sense to take the job....At the moment I am in a stable job with good pay and the poor boy from thomas cook was given a seasonal contract on 81% after year 2...now who made the right decision
! woooo saaaa
Personally my pay isn't too bad what I don't like and the reason i am wanting to leave is because they treat us like Did i know this before I came YES but when you don't have 'bank of mum and dad' you need to take any job so that you can pay for the other loan you have taken out!
This is a business my friend and you will no doubt be broke if you ever decided to become a pilot.....
U737
P.S For everyone else i am finding it hard not to keep on falling into their trap and I am sorry! MUST DO BETTER!
Here is an example for you.....bearing in mind both cadets have forked out for the same training so we can disregard that!
Cadet at thomas cook
Yr1 - £30,000 BEFORE TAX
Yr2 - £32,000 BEFORE TAX
Yr3 - £34,000 BEFORE TAX
Total - £96,000 BEFORE TAX
At Ryanair
£20,000 upfront for TR - If you were a good negotiator you would probably be paying 2.5% interest so over the 3 years that is £1500 for the three years roughly!
Then as for the salary - yes i lived of baked beams for a month or so whilst i got myself settled. there are very cheap bnb's in most of FR bases. so as for my salary working on some rough numbers hear but i fly on average 750 hours a year...
Yr1 - I worked 11 months (i passed my line check within a month) on a rate of 687 hours @ E75 = 51,500
Yr2 - 56350
Yr3 - oo my rate went up at the end of last year because i had 1500hours but to be nice to you MOLG i will leave it at the same rate = 56350
Total before tax = E164,200 convert that into pounds (I will also give you a good rate MOLG of 0.7 (over the past few years it has been well above that got up to 0.85 and therefore increasing my salary by 15% but we wont try and complicate things for you too much MOLG)
So my total earnings before tax come to £114,940 oh minus the £1500 for the interest and £20000 for the TR comes to £93,440...this is not to mention the tax benefits you can take from offsetting your TR and maybe not declaring a few hundred hours (should you choose to do so!)
MOLG look at the facts before you come on here and moan about us complaining. You say the same BS about how we should just take it in the a5s because we signed the contracts when in actual fact it made perfect sense to take the job....At the moment I am in a stable job with good pay and the poor boy from thomas cook was given a seasonal contract on 81% after year 2...now who made the right decision
! woooo saaaaPersonally my pay isn't too bad what I don't like and the reason i am wanting to leave is because they treat us like
Did i know this before I came YES but when you don't have 'bank of mum and dad' you need to take any job so that you can pay for the other loan you have taken out!This is a business my friend and you will no doubt be broke if you ever decided to become a pilot.....
U737
P.S For everyone else i am finding it hard not to keep on falling into their trap and I am sorry! MUST DO BETTER!
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I have heard MOL is to start charging £40 to print a P45 for a leaving employee !!
BBC News - Ryanair challenges Spanish court over boarding passes
Lid
BBC News - Ryanair challenges Spanish court over boarding passes
Lid
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Unregistered737:
Can you tell me where, oh (to copy your patronising tone) where, you can borrow at 2.5% from in this day and age?
Apart from your Daddy.
Such rates are NOT available to borrow at, especially for greasy little oiks like you.
Do you think we are all stupid enough to believe your bullsh1t?
Grow up
Can you tell me where, oh (to copy your patronising tone) where, you can borrow at 2.5% from in this day and age?
Apart from your Daddy.
Such rates are NOT available to borrow at, especially for greasy little oiks like you.
Do you think we are all stupid enough to believe your bullsh1t?
Grow up
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Flying Lid
Where did you hear that?
And how is it even going to work, we are mostly BRK contractors or in that dodgy company set up my the mafia accountants, P45 is for employees right? if none of us are what do we need with a P45 from Ryanair?
Where did you hear that?
And how is it even going to work, we are mostly BRK contractors or in that dodgy company set up my the mafia accountants, P45 is for employees right? if none of us are what do we need with a P45 from Ryanair?
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No, no white flag here.
I am not interested in how much U737 earns a year, it's not the point I am making.
If you are subserviant enough to join FR with all the associated costs required to get into the RHS and in turn ruining the t&c's of the whole industry then you immediately gave MOL and his honcho's the upper hand. They realise you bent over to start so see no reason to treat you with respect now.
I am not interested in how much U737 earns a year, it's not the point I am making.
If you are subserviant enough to join FR with all the associated costs required to get into the RHS and in turn ruining the t&c's of the whole industry then you immediately gave MOL and his honcho's the upper hand. They realise you bent over to start so see no reason to treat you with respect now.
Southwest and Virgin Blue to name but two airlines that people seem to want to work for, also require you to bring your own type rating. I think it is a bit of an oversimplification to blame the way the whole pilot training market has gone on Ryanair.
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Lederhosen, you are absolutely right.
Almost every airline requires at least type rating, and preferably time on type, particularly for DECs. You can't put the reducing T&Cs of this industry (and most indusrtries...) squarely at Ryanairs door. MOLG has issues, and is trying (successfully..!) to wind some people up.
There are a few quality legacy carriers giving type training, more in fact than in recent years, so this is a good time to think positively about what can be acheived, even if sandbox/ long haul isn't your bag.
What we can do is use the short window of opportunity to try to get a better deal, and not just roll over and say "ah well, what the heck..."
Particularly when there are lots of improvements to lifestyle that can be made for relatively little, or no cost to the airlines.
It just takes a subtle shift in attitude. Starting with ceasing to regard us as a bunch of's...
Almost every airline requires at least type rating, and preferably time on type, particularly for DECs. You can't put the reducing T&Cs of this industry (and most indusrtries...) squarely at Ryanairs door. MOLG has issues, and is trying (successfully..!) to wind some people up.
There are a few quality legacy carriers giving type training, more in fact than in recent years, so this is a good time to think positively about what can be acheived, even if sandbox/ long haul isn't your bag.
What we can do is use the short window of opportunity to try to get a better deal, and not just roll over and say "ah well, what the heck..."
Particularly when there are lots of improvements to lifestyle that can be made for relatively little, or no cost to the airlines.
It just takes a subtle shift in attitude. Starting with ceasing to regard us as a bunch of
's...
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16024
C'mon, you knew what you were doing was mercenary when you agreed to FR T&C's, and although FR are not entirely responsible for SSTR being the norm, they were, and are, a major driving force in the introduction of this practice. Unfortunately other airlines saw how easy it was for FR to make part of their annual profits from selling TR's to cadets and followed suit thus bringing down the T&C's of most of the industry.
So take your medicine, accept the FR "regime" have no interest in you and shut up!
So take your medicine, accept the FR "regime" have no interest in you and shut up!
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WHAT! 
I was speaking to a DUB FO (ryanair contract) the other day and he said his basic was €40000!
how can you do the upgrade and only get an extra €5000 on top???
Unreal!
I was speaking to a DUB FO (ryanair contract) the other day and he said his basic was €40000!
how can you do the upgrade and only get an extra €5000 on top???
Unreal!
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You can't compare Ryanair to SWA. SWA has been asking for a type rating for a long time, but they don't hire cadets, and you can get your type rating wherever you want for a lot less money. Plus, their T&C's are a lot better. There is no comparison between the two. SWA was the business model MOL used for Ryanair. Why he didn't copy SWA pilots' T&C's? And the pilots at SWA don't want to leave the company, they're happy there.
Last edited by beachbumflyer; 22nd Jan 2011 at 18:40.
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Wowzers that created a s**t storm.
I do apologise for digressing from the original thread but those figures were somewhat generalised (though very close!) it was more to prove a point that it makes no difference between paying upfront for a TR than being bonded.
I do however take offence to being called an greesy oik! Its the sort of thing my father called me when I asked to borrow the money off him for the training! (i might like to point out that the only help from the bank of mnd I had was in securing my loan....they had faith in me and my abilities and I hope that some day I can so the same for my kids)
As for finding a loan I dealt with RBS (before the recession!) and it was a student training loan which was 2% above base rate which = 2.5%...I can pass on the loan advisors number if you wish I am sure i can get a finders fee.
Final point on this....I am on an old BRK contract and I was only line training for a month or so then it went to E60 then onto E75 then onto E85 so my figures aren't wrong just averaged to KISS!
So back to the point.....
Its incredible that people like MOLG are on this thread in the first place. We know you think FR is the pits but actually, what people on hear are talking about is trying to leave and move on. Use and abuse...get some hours and then F. off to something better. Whats so wrong in that? The loan won't pay itself without a job so the options for me were FR or no job.... well unless your an idiot thats a no brainer!
MOLG for someone that is 'bored of this' and 'has not interest in us' why do you keep responding? Go somewhere else to get you 2 cents worth unless you can come up with something new and relevant.....
All I want to know is how short of captains they are going to be, how desperate they will be to upgrade FO's and whether or not the BRK contracts are going to be withdrawn
if the price is right then I will stay on...its business! Just incase anyone from FR reads this E45000 is NOT the right price and hence why i wont be taking the upgrade (amongst other reasons!!!)....FR can only go on this way for so long before people do start to stand up to them and this is what this thread is all about. finally people are seeing what they are truly like (sorry MOLG if we were a bit behind the drag curve but we will catch up!) and I hope and pray that things change not just for us but for everyone. the recession has been a b***h and it has taken its toll....try blaming the bankers before you go attacking FR pilots.
U737
I do apologise for digressing from the original thread but those figures were somewhat generalised (though very close!) it was more to prove a point that it makes no difference between paying upfront for a TR than being bonded.
I do however take offence to being called an greesy oik! Its the sort of thing my father called me when I asked to borrow the money off him for the training! (i might like to point out that the only help from the bank of mnd I had was in securing my loan....they had faith in me and my abilities and I hope that some day I can so the same for my kids)
As for finding a loan I dealt with RBS (before the recession!) and it was a student training loan which was 2% above base rate which = 2.5%...I can pass on the loan advisors number if you wish I am sure i can get a finders fee.
Final point on this....I am on an old BRK contract and I was only line training for a month or so then it went to E60 then onto E75 then onto E85 so my figures aren't wrong just averaged to KISS!
So back to the point.....
Its incredible that people like MOLG are on this thread in the first place. We know you think FR is the pits but actually, what people on hear are talking about is trying to leave and move on. Use and abuse...get some hours and then F. off to something better. Whats so wrong in that? The loan won't pay itself without a job so the options for me were FR or no job.... well unless your an idiot thats a no brainer!
MOLG for someone that is 'bored of this' and 'has not interest in us' why do you keep responding? Go somewhere else to get you 2 cents worth unless you can come up with something new and relevant.....
All I want to know is how short of captains they are going to be, how desperate they will be to upgrade FO's and whether or not the BRK contracts are going to be withdrawn
if the price is right then I will stay on...its business! Just incase anyone from FR reads this E45000 is NOT the right price
and hence why i wont be taking the upgrade (amongst other reasons!!!)....FR can only go on this way for so long before people do start to stand up to them and this is what this thread is all about. finally people are seeing what they are truly like (sorry MOLG if we were a bit behind the drag curve but we will catch up!) and I hope and pray that things change not just for us but for everyone. the recession has been a b***h and it has taken its toll....try blaming the bankers before you go attacking FR pilots.U737
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As of today,
I am no longer working outside my 5/4 as all they do is take me off a flight to work an "extra" on a day off.
Working my days off to help with base administration as it is unpaid and unrewarded.
Working hard to save fuel or handling agents from difficult situations.
I will be working towards a better future for all in the airline industry. Stopping so called "companies" charging for uniform, training, and giving out poor contracts with reducing terms and conditions and treating hard working, committed and genuine pilots like crap!!
Please let's join together to protect ours and our childrens future!!
Edited for spelling
I am no longer working outside my 5/4 as all they do is take me off a flight to work an "extra" on a day off.
Working my days off to help with base administration as it is unpaid and unrewarded.
Working hard to save fuel or handling agents from difficult situations.
I will be working towards a better future for all in the airline industry. Stopping so called "companies" charging for uniform, training, and giving out poor contracts with reducing terms and conditions and treating hard working, committed and genuine pilots like crap!!
Please let's join together to protect ours and our childrens future!!
Edited for spelling