Ryanair exodus, what is the plan?
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That would be absolutely true in a conventional airline Bum. However, more than half of Ryanair's pilots are contractors. If they go on strike Ryanair will only start to lose out on the money if they can't muster the staff to man all their flights.
For that to happen you'd need a very large number of pilots willing to go on strike. The chances of getting to such a number without any form of union or proper organisation is rather slim.
For that to happen you'd need a very large number of pilots willing to go on strike. The chances of getting to such a number without any form of union or proper organisation is rather slim.
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there's never been a truer saying than "you reap what you sow", probably all you guys bitching here condoned this management behaviour when you signed up for the type rating and the Brookfield Contract.
You were warned at the time but you never listened, unfortunately there is a queue from Lands end to John O'Groats waiting to fill your boots.
Good riddance!!!! You asked for it so stop complaining!!!
You were warned at the time but you never listened, unfortunately there is a queue from Lands end to John O'Groats waiting to fill your boots.
Good riddance!!!! You asked for it so stop complaining!!!
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Good to be talking amoungst friends.
A few points.
Unregistered 727 " love you enthusiasm i really do but a union in ryanair....not going to happen with this management."
Why not, it is us that vote for a union not management. I agree unions are behind the changes that have happened in the airline industry in the last few years but as a start all pilots in FR join BALPA. We can work out the politics later.
Wrong stuff "any union would have to be RYR wide - not just UK pilots, otherwise they'll just close / dramatically downsize the UK bases and send the planes abroad".
Yes on the union europe wide. Why would any company close/ downsize a base just because of a union. Do you think that the base exists just because there is no union or because there is a profit to be made?. do not buy in to the scare tatics. If a base is to closed or downsized it will be. BOH!!!!
Pressman "I think 70-80 is a bit conservative as well " I know what I am talking about. That is confirmed leaving. take it or leave it!
beachbumflyer "And that is money. So, going on stike will probably be the only option to make management change"
I would never go on strike!! However from time to time I catch a virus and that can be very contagous!! A lot of other guys can catch it, may take us all out.
d105 "That would be absolutely true in a conventional airline Bum. However, more than half of Ryanair's pilots are contractors"
Ah oh no their not! The irish revenue have already accepted you are employees. Hence the "mcNamara" deal. Its just a scam to avoid employee taxes thats about to change this year! Brookfield guys will be paying tax. If any BRK "contractor"had the balls to take this to court they would win. And you are supposed to abide to the Ryanair FTL's. Try that on a 5/3!!
By the way in Ireland it is illegal to pay a precentage of your wage for a service. It is either a set fee or billable hours.
So who has it better Easyjet or Ryanair?
Shame the girls and boys of Aer Lingus are showing us the way. Only mistake they made is not to wait until late May,.
Again what have we got to lose !!!!( but leave the fight to May)
A few points.
Unregistered 727 " love you enthusiasm i really do but a union in ryanair....not going to happen with this management."
Why not, it is us that vote for a union not management. I agree unions are behind the changes that have happened in the airline industry in the last few years but as a start all pilots in FR join BALPA. We can work out the politics later.
Wrong stuff "any union would have to be RYR wide - not just UK pilots, otherwise they'll just close / dramatically downsize the UK bases and send the planes abroad".
Yes on the union europe wide. Why would any company close/ downsize a base just because of a union. Do you think that the base exists just because there is no union or because there is a profit to be made?. do not buy in to the scare tatics. If a base is to closed or downsized it will be. BOH!!!!
Pressman "I think 70-80 is a bit conservative as well " I know what I am talking about. That is confirmed leaving. take it or leave it!
beachbumflyer "And that is money. So, going on stike will probably be the only option to make management change"
I would never go on strike!! However from time to time I catch a virus and that can be very contagous!! A lot of other guys can catch it, may take us all out.
d105 "That would be absolutely true in a conventional airline Bum. However, more than half of Ryanair's pilots are contractors"
Ah oh no their not! The irish revenue have already accepted you are employees. Hence the "mcNamara" deal. Its just a scam to avoid employee taxes thats about to change this year! Brookfield guys will be paying tax. If any BRK "contractor"had the balls to take this to court they would win. And you are supposed to abide to the Ryanair FTL's. Try that on a 5/3!!
By the way in Ireland it is illegal to pay a precentage of your wage for a service. It is either a set fee or billable hours.
So who has it better Easyjet or Ryanair?
Shame the girls and boys of Aer Lingus are showing us the way. Only mistake they made is not to wait until late May,.
Again what have we got to lose !!!!( but leave the fight to May)
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Michaeolearygenius- first off i'll start with the name, there is nothing genius about cost cutting if your ruthless enough and then even more ruthless with 3 billion in the bank earning 400- 600 a million a year in profit but still finding it necesary to cut your staffs salaries and conditions.its just plain greed.
You reap what you sow--I took the job in Ryanair as a reluctant contracter because it was a sounder financial decision than going on the dole.If i didnt join, the system would still be the same because thats the way ryanair have created it.this has been discussed at lenght add nausuem.
Bearing this in mind this doesnt mean i cannot disagree with the way the company operates because as a professional pilot i believe it is my duty to stand up to anyone company or otherwise that may encroach on safety for financial gain.
You reap what you sow--I took the job in Ryanair as a reluctant contracter because it was a sounder financial decision than going on the dole.If i didnt join, the system would still be the same because thats the way ryanair have created it.this has been discussed at lenght add nausuem.
Bearing this in mind this doesnt mean i cannot disagree with the way the company operates because as a professional pilot i believe it is my duty to stand up to anyone company or otherwise that may encroach on safety for financial gain.
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MOLgenius are you his new b***h who was the successful applicant for his business development course and given his first task? I am sure when MOLGenius is at the pearly gates he will get a message saying REQUEST DENIED. Reap and sow MOL!
Oh and for this long list of people from lands end to John o'groats.....you can't put guys with 250hrs in the RHS despite you thinking FO's are a useless waste of space
I have made three suggestions on how to 'bring down' the management but don't see anyone else producing viable options......where do we go from here? Are we not stuck for another 4yrs after the last failed balpa attempt? I think pprune is great but it generally is nothing but hot air we need some action people! (feeling slightly anarchist today maybe it was watching the student protest last night!)
Oh and for this long list of people from lands end to John o'groats.....you can't put guys with 250hrs in the RHS despite you thinking FO's are a useless waste of space
I have made three suggestions on how to 'bring down' the management but don't see anyone else producing viable options......where do we go from here? Are we not stuck for another 4yrs after the last failed balpa attempt? I think pprune is great but it generally is nothing but hot air we need some action people! (feeling slightly anarchist today maybe it was watching the student protest last night!)
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MOLGenius, you were probably after a flaming but many people will actually agree that you do reap what you sow. As for being warned about RYR but not listening - i'm now in a far better position than when i finished my initial training with lots of high quality training and experience on the 738 - it was a logical move at a time when nobody else was hiring and your advice was wrong, basically.
Also, reaping what you sow applies to ryanair too. As someone else said, a large number of us took the decision to work for them reluctantly, when everybody else was going bankrupt and laying off pilots. It was a sensible move under the circumstances and i personally joined with an open mind, but the company is clearly getting worse and worse and its now time to take the red pill and go back into the real world...
Also, reaping what you sow applies to ryanair too. As someone else said, a large number of us took the decision to work for them reluctantly, when everybody else was going bankrupt and laying off pilots. It was a sensible move under the circumstances and i personally joined with an open mind, but the company is clearly getting worse and worse and its now time to take the red pill and go back into the real world...
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The problem is that all the once decent 'other airlines' terms and conditions have plummeted towards Ryanair's because you guys worked for Ryanair.
You all condoned crap conditions in the first place but will now never be able to achieve what those before you managed in legacy airlines.
This downward spiral race to the bottom is only because all the good airlines are telling their pilots that "Ryanair pilots only get x why should you get any more?" all the time.
You all condoned crap conditions in the first place but will now never be able to achieve what those before you managed in legacy airlines.
This downward spiral race to the bottom is only because all the good airlines are telling their pilots that "Ryanair pilots only get x why should you get any more?" all the time.
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I don't think any of the responders to my post actually have the savvy to understand what I was saying. It was all you "get my arse on the RHS no matter the cost" guys that have got the situation to what it is now. You bent over with your pants at your ankles then and never complained and you're doing the same now. Trust me, if everyone had stood up and said at the time, "no I'm not paying for a TR", things would be better now. That was the start of the slippery slope. Maybe they would not be as big an airline as they are now but would this be a bad thing?
So you bent over and said nothing the first time and paid for the TR so management have no reason to believe you won't bend over and say nothing again. Talk of a strike in FR is just claptrap, no one is big enough to stand up to them. You started this mess so stop complaining, nobody forced you to pay for the TR so shut up and lie in the horrible little bed you all made for yourself yet strenuously deny "it's not my fault it was my only option", guys it was so definitely "your own fault"!!!!!!
Wrong stuff, you may have a shed load of high quality hours now but you are not or appear not to be happy in your current role, do you really think it's going to be better T&C's in other airlines, most airlines have jumped on the FR bandwagon now unfortunately.
So you bent over and said nothing the first time and paid for the TR so management have no reason to believe you won't bend over and say nothing again. Talk of a strike in FR is just claptrap, no one is big enough to stand up to them. You started this mess so stop complaining, nobody forced you to pay for the TR so shut up and lie in the horrible little bed you all made for yourself yet strenuously deny "it's not my fault it was my only option", guys it was so definitely "your own fault"!!!!!!
Wrong stuff, you may have a shed load of high quality hours now but you are not or appear not to be happy in your current role, do you really think it's going to be better T&C's in other airlines, most airlines have jumped on the FR bandwagon now unfortunately.
Last edited by MichaelOLearyGenius; 20th Jan 2011 at 12:54.
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MOLG - we are not as stupid as you so yes we understand your posts. Please tell me where the difference is between a bond for 3 years on a reduced salary and paying for the TR upfront on a full salary. With debt being very cheap (if you can get it) I reckon I am better off paying upfront. For a supposedly trained accountant you ain't the brightest of sparks.
I earn better money working for FR than most of my counterparts but when it comes to doing the command with them that's when it becomes ridiculous. None of us who have lives want to move to another base on reduced salary and a non-commutable roster and hence the recent upsurge of people turning them down. It is FR who is loosing out here with some very capable and good pilots leaving to other companies. From 90% of the guys I have spoken to at my level they aren't going to take the command regardless of you sending them away to another base because they know it's not right. So we are standing up for ourselves. Personally I am going to everything in my power to make sure I get those interviews that are cropping up on an increasingly regular basis now and get the hell out of here (I got a couple lined up - apparently they like the FR guys as we work quickly and efficiently and know how to programme an FMC - thanks for the training FR you have done me proud, I did pay MOL for it though so I presume it's all part of the service)
I can't speak for wrong stuff but I am happy. I work with some very nice people, can go home from work and forget about it and in my bed every night, depending on your tax bill at the end of the year my net income has been enough to be able to reduce all of my loan to virtually nothing (I don't go and splash out on the latest BMW/Audi!)
As for TnC's being the same at other airlines, firstly please provide me with the evidence secondly I won't be any worse off than I am now so again where is the problem.
MOLG- you sound like a guy who is stuck on a turboprop who should of paid for the TR but instead your bonded to a company for 3 years and now you hours don't count for s**t. If your not like 'this guy' then you will no doubt have countless health problems from being so stressed all the time!
who's the savvy one now.......
I earn better money working for FR than most of my counterparts but when it comes to doing the command with them that's when it becomes ridiculous. None of us who have lives want to move to another base on reduced salary and a non-commutable roster and hence the recent upsurge of people turning them down. It is FR who is loosing out here with some very capable and good pilots leaving to other companies. From 90% of the guys I have spoken to at my level they aren't going to take the command regardless of you sending them away to another base because they know it's not right. So we are standing up for ourselves. Personally I am going to everything in my power to make sure I get those interviews that are cropping up on an increasingly regular basis now and get the hell out of here (I got a couple lined up - apparently they like the FR guys as we work quickly and efficiently and know how to programme an FMC - thanks for the training FR you have done me proud, I did pay MOL for it though so I presume it's all part of the service)
I can't speak for wrong stuff but I am happy. I work with some very nice people, can go home from work and forget about it and in my bed every night, depending on your tax bill at the end of the year my net income has been enough to be able to reduce all of my loan to virtually nothing (I don't go and splash out on the latest BMW/Audi!)
As for TnC's being the same at other airlines, firstly please provide me with the evidence secondly I won't be any worse off than I am now so again where is the problem.
MOLG- you sound like a guy who is stuck on a turboprop who should of paid for the TR but instead your bonded to a company for 3 years and now you hours don't count for s**t. If your not like 'this guy' then you will no doubt have countless health problems from being so stressed all the time!
who's the savvy one now.......
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well you're entitled to your passionately expressed views, i believe that primarily we each take the best decision for ourselves out of the available options, its that simple, so i'm certainly not whining and i have no regrets, which is apparently what you'd like to believe. I enjoy my job (the day to day stuff) but at the same time theres nothing more i can get from the company that i actually want and the cons now outweigh the pro's. I think this is the way lots of the senior FO's feel.
Also, as for airlines jumping on the FR bandwagon, i think you're letting the other airlines management off the hook a bit there. Nobody has held a gun to anyones head in all this, it has been an industry wide correction which was waiting to take place, the low co's have just been at the cutting edge, shall we say. It wont last though, its just a transitional stage during the rapid expansion of the low co's. The legacy carriers will start to hammer them in terms of value for money at some stage i think. all the best.
Also, as for airlines jumping on the FR bandwagon, i think you're letting the other airlines management off the hook a bit there. Nobody has held a gun to anyones head in all this, it has been an industry wide correction which was waiting to take place, the low co's have just been at the cutting edge, shall we say. It wont last though, its just a transitional stage during the rapid expansion of the low co's. The legacy carriers will start to hammer them in terms of value for money at some stage i think. all the best.
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As we don't seem to be seeing pilots at these "other airlines" taking a principled stand and resigning, then I don't think its really fair to blame Ryanair pilots for the downward spiral in terms and conditions that they are apparently having to put up with. Flybe FOs take home around 20k - perhaps we should blame them too? Or perhaps we could all accept that this is what is happening to the free market of pilots salaries and stop moaning.
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Work to rule
Listen chaps.
We all know that you can't strike.
We all know that cadets are going to go to the bank of Mum & Dad to get a job flying new 737s.
We all know that SFOs will take the base move to europe to get the 4th stripe with "no positions in the UK for at least 2 years".
We all know that Brookfield is taking over the world and dodging millions of pounds worth of Tax on behalf of Ryanair.
We all know that none of this will change because no single person will start the ball rolling because they know as he takes a step forward, the rest of the pilot population in Ryanair will take one step back. This has been shown year in year out with the REPA and BALPA campaigns.
So, what to do. Well, while you are all sat on your backsides moaning about how things will never change have a little read of that PINK BOOK.
START WORKING TO THE OPS MANUAL!!!!
That means coming in 45 mins before off blocks. That means USING COMMANDERS DISCRETION and if you are knackered, DON'T FLY HOME! You have the choice.
That means not answering your phone when you are not on duty.
If everyone starts reading that Ops Manual, and follows it TO THE LETTER, then there is nothing they can do. You are doing what they have written in black and white. But as long as FOs are coming in 1:30 before off blocks to do the paperwork, and Captains are flying home after doing 13 hour duty days, then they are going to keep laughing at you all, and keep having weekly meetings with free tea, coffee, and biscuits that have come from the pay rise that they have frozen from you for the past 3 years running.
Your call!
We all know that you can't strike.
We all know that cadets are going to go to the bank of Mum & Dad to get a job flying new 737s.
We all know that SFOs will take the base move to europe to get the 4th stripe with "no positions in the UK for at least 2 years".
We all know that Brookfield is taking over the world and dodging millions of pounds worth of Tax on behalf of Ryanair.
We all know that none of this will change because no single person will start the ball rolling because they know as he takes a step forward, the rest of the pilot population in Ryanair will take one step back. This has been shown year in year out with the REPA and BALPA campaigns.
So, what to do. Well, while you are all sat on your backsides moaning about how things will never change have a little read of that PINK BOOK.
START WORKING TO THE OPS MANUAL!!!!
That means coming in 45 mins before off blocks. That means USING COMMANDERS DISCRETION and if you are knackered, DON'T FLY HOME! You have the choice.
That means not answering your phone when you are not on duty.
If everyone starts reading that Ops Manual, and follows it TO THE LETTER, then there is nothing they can do. You are doing what they have written in black and white. But as long as FOs are coming in 1:30 before off blocks to do the paperwork, and Captains are flying home after doing 13 hour duty days, then they are going to keep laughing at you all, and keep having weekly meetings with free tea, coffee, and biscuits that have come from the pay rise that they have frozen from you for the past 3 years running.
Your call!
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Whistleblower 'We all know that none of this will change because no single person will start the ball rolling because they know as he takes a step forward, the rest of the pilot population in Ryanair will take one step back. This has been shown year in year out with the REPA and BALPA campaigns.--
I disagree with this post campaigns have failed before but we have learned from them we are all aware of managements tactics they are not changing just intimidation...
The Government in Ireland is changing in Ireland labour will be in government there and the labour laws will change by the end of the year that means an end to the brookfield farce...mark my words its only a matter of time
For me the reasons for being in a union apart from looking for unionisation of the company are clear..
You have an accident and go off the rwy you have legal backing every company will try string the pilot up first.
Secondly - if you ever have any disciplinary action you always have a unions legal advise and backing.
I disagree with this post campaigns have failed before but we have learned from them we are all aware of managements tactics they are not changing just intimidation...
The Government in Ireland is changing in Ireland labour will be in government there and the labour laws will change by the end of the year that means an end to the brookfield farce...mark my words its only a matter of time
For me the reasons for being in a union apart from looking for unionisation of the company are clear..
You have an accident and go off the rwy you have legal backing every company will try string the pilot up first.
Secondly - if you ever have any disciplinary action you always have a unions legal advise and backing.
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It gets better and better.....
My GOD !
Emirates Roadshow in Dublin, announced on their website for the 25 January 2011
500 yards from the Ryanair Headquarters in Dublin...
I'd nearly go down there for the entertainment value alone......
Talk about hitting Ryanair where it hurts....
And guys turning up there, especially with all the management snooping around....u think arriving at the door, a RYR pilot would expect roster changes due to "operational reasons". If that is the case....the gloves are OFF !!!
Comments please
Emirates Roadshow in Dublin, announced on their website for the 25 January 2011
500 yards from the Ryanair Headquarters in Dublin...
I'd nearly go down there for the entertainment value alone......
Talk about hitting Ryanair where it hurts....
And guys turning up there, especially with all the management snooping around....u think arriving at the door, a RYR pilot would expect roster changes due to "operational reasons". If that is the case....the gloves are OFF !!!
Comments please
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Other unions
It seems Ryanair left Marsailles due the french tax system, Copenhagen base not yet a fact, rumours say because local unions will block for Ryanair, Rygge base also problems with norwegian government.
Maybe in the future Ryanair does'nt even need a union if all the unions in europe starts to work for them as well as the governments may question the tax problem ?
Maybe in the future Ryanair does'nt even need a union if all the unions in europe starts to work for them as well as the governments may question the tax problem ?
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Well I suspect the future will include contracts for different countries. As I understand RYR are resigned to the fact that they will need to put the Italian bases on Italian contract - they have a huge market in Italy so it's a different story to the French/MRS scenario. Due process in Italy takes time, so who knows when this will happen.
I don't know what happened with RYR, they had all the enthusism when they moved to the UK, set up a UK company and issued UK contracts. They moved further afield and just couldn't be arsed following due process.
I don't know what happened with RYR, they had all the enthusism when they moved to the UK, set up a UK company and issued UK contracts. They moved further afield and just couldn't be arsed following due process.