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easyJet pilots, your management are taking the piss now

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easyJet pilots, your management are taking the piss now

Old 26th Feb 2010, 19:29
  #101 (permalink)  
 
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Gyni - no problem. I really should have worded my reply to Harry a little better.

I hope you can see the problem though. A lot of these guys are all very intelligent, most put me to shame, and have excellent degrees. I have absolutely no doubt they'd all do very well in their degree related industries. The problem they face is that massive numbers of people are degree educated and only core industries ask for specific degrees. Even most of these are over subscribed to. Entry level grad jobs might just let them scrape by if they could live at home with parents or house share with fellow cadets. No experience means they can't chase the better paid vacancies and they don't have the hours to apply for any other airline positions. Couple this with the bank playing hardball and you can begin to see how futile it can seem.

No requirement here for any smart arses to pipe up saying they can't be that clever as they got themselves in a financial pickle. In my opinion they've been sold down the river.

We, they, I, whatever, would be very grateful of your support. I can completely empathise with your thoughts and I've been in a similar position before in engineering. No resolution was forthcoming and the union happily got members to sell new entrants out. Reduction in terms and closure of the final salary pension scheme and low and behold with smaller numbers now that is under threat.
What I would say is that the majority, neigh, almost all of the people in the holding lake, tried to reject the deal. It became extremely apparent that easyJet wouldn't offer anything substantial in terms of improvements or concessions and with nothing else available I can't bring myself to criticise them. Rock, hard place.

I only wish everyone had held out a little longer. It was obvious easy needed crew but with the threat of OAA-let's-throw-30k-at-it looming large and HSBC barking for repayments and taking legal action what to do?
djfingerscrossed is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2010, 22:23
  #102 (permalink)  
 
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....and that dear djfingerscrossed leads us nicely back to the easyjet CC. We seem to have established now that the Kaydets, whilst culpable in signing, aren't really the root of the problem.

Sometimes a CC has to educate a management team who wish to implement something completely mental but which seemed a good idea when it was dreamt up.

The easy CC shouldn't be looking at this as a cost neutral thing - are they another tier of managers in the company's heirarchy? As I read it the statement quoted implies an acceptance of the scheme by the CC - or its inevitability. Are concessions going to have to be made from another area in order to finance the bringing of the cadets into permanent employment sooner? By shortening the time period before permanent employment is offered, more mugs will be encouraged to go for it. Therefore easyjet will have successfully shifted yet more of their training costs and business risk onto their prospective employees. And where one goes, the others will follow.

This is a direct (and major) attempt to undermine easyjet pilot T&Cs (let alone any collateral damage to conditions elsewhere in the industry). This is cause for teddy to not only be thrown in the corner but thoroughly stamped on as well. Glad to see that unions and management are able to work so well, hand in hand.

HS
Harry Shyters is offline  
Old 27th Feb 2010, 19:13
  #103 (permalink)  
 
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Yes

It seems they are good friends, doesn't it?

What BALPA has to do is to say "STOP" to this form of hiring, and that's it.
Its mere existence is a torpedo below the floating line. It is deadly, 100%, no doubt. Only the torpedo hasn't hit yet, but either you veer the ship quickly or say good by to your T&Cs.

So why are they so friendly? Are they nuts? Have they been bought?
It is unbelievable what is happening... On the part of EZY senior pilots and BALPA. Did they hire them in the first place because they are masochist?

Or is it that none of them is happy with this, that they hate what is happening, but they just can't make their opinion heard in the higher levels?
Microburst2002 is offline  
Old 27th Feb 2010, 21:30
  #104 (permalink)  
 
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I think the last sentance about sums it up - we make our views known both individually and collectively, but they are ignored by an Ops Director who 'cares nothing for loyalty', and totally ignores any different opinion, that is why we are so short of crews at the moment, and it's only February.
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Old 27th Feb 2010, 22:00
  #105 (permalink)  
 
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For those who are affected, why don't you just phone / write a letter to BALPA with your questions asking their opinions and if they'll be getting involved?

If they are the only people who can help, then I sure would have tried them first, instead of typing on PPRuNe! lol
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Old 28th Feb 2010, 10:25
  #106 (permalink)  
 
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Couldnt afford it

Hi Guys,

I am an engineer who has managed to break into the flying game. I got rated on the A320 and was lucky enough to get some flying with an airline that i worked with during summer season.

I was looking for a more permanent position and had applied to Flixi Crew, however a friend of mine told me about the terms and conditions and I could not afford to take a position like that.

Even being in the RHS is a pay cut for me under normal conditions, I am not bragging but I dont have any debt to repay back I worked hard and paid for everything as I went. However the realities are I have a mortgage which costs 1300 Euro per month, that would be what I could expect to recieve after tax working their max hours.

I simply could not afford to live on fresh air! So I will have to keep looking and waiting for a reasonable paying job while still working as an engineer. Though even the rates for that have gone down over the last 2 years!

As a wise man once said "F*ck Em"

Keep the faith!

Spanner
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Old 28th Feb 2010, 11:57
  #107 (permalink)  
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1300 Euro per month

So is that how much they value their co-pilots. I am not talking about cadets doing line training here, this is someone who has an Airbus rating and some hours on it. Now do you understand, your management are taking the piss now and you need to do something about it. Not just for yourselves, but for everyone in the industry. If not, the UK will end up like the USA with in the next 5 years.

This thread is nearly 7 days old now.

115 post and viewed 11,145 time. Everyone is watching in disbelief.

A question for anyone in the know, have your CC been bought off???? Please feel free to put me straight on this

Take home pay 1300 Euro per month, thatís what easyJet think the rate should be.

And those few who come out with "they donít have to do it" are as much to blame as those that do it, so the "alright Jack" lot need to wake up and think about what your job maybe like in 5 years time.

All it needs is for easyJet to take 100 pilots a year from anywhere in the world and within 5 years, youíre screwed.

The time to stop this is not next year, next month or next week, its now if you want to do something about it.

I have to go and work abroad in the Middle East, as are about another 80 Thomson pilots that are being made redundant. What is being offered by CTC and PARC is a slap in the face to us as much as it is to those wanting to get on the ladder and those already employed within easyJet.

Many of us would rather stay here and would be happy to work for you for the going rate, not this prostitution rate

Either easyJet needs pilots or they donít. If they do, then employ them and give them the rate for the job. Is that too much to ask.

Even being in the RHS is a pay cut for me under normal conditions, I am not bragging but I dont have any debt to repay back I worked hard and paid for everything as I went. However the realities are I have a mortgage which costs 1300 Euro per month, that would be what I could expect to recieve after tax working their max hours.
And this guy does not have a £70,000 plus interest debt. This says it all

They are taking the piss out of YOU, ME AND EVERYONE ELSE
EGCC4284 is offline  
Old 28th Feb 2010, 12:25
  #108 (permalink)  
 
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Yes, man

So....?

LOBBY, LOBBY, LOBBY, LOBBY!

What are you waiting for?
Write letters, have meetings, make phone calls.
Nobody will do that in your stead.

Force and Honor!
Microburst2002 is offline  
Old 28th Feb 2010, 13:01
  #109 (permalink)  
 
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Nobody will do that in your stead.
BALPA havn't.

1300 EU. on max hours.

Frankly, thats worse than fing offensive.
Bruce Wayne is offline  
Old 28th Feb 2010, 13:15
  #110 (permalink)  
 
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I don't understand employment law, and post Maggie T I understand it has its limitations, but. . . . is there no scope here for the permanent employees to take industrial action if the company "employs" (be it through PARC/CTC whoever) someone to do the job at a pittance and thereby in effect make the post unavailable to a more "suitable" i.e. experienced candidate, and quite demonstrably lay down a marker as to where future employees will be graded.
Alternatively is there no clause in your BALPA negotiated "agreement" that prevents someone being employed on lesser terms.
FFS, if there is, give your CC a clout on the lug, and insist they do likewise to BALPA HQ NOW. . before you are totally Donald Ducked (which will happen sooner than you think)
If there is no protection in employment law, or no clause, then play dirty and find another reason to take action, but find a reason now, or there will very soon be nothing left to protect.
Forget all this "cosy free-masonic/we are all professionals together" clap-trap ("zero cost solutions" my @rse ) & fight HARD, fight NOW and fight DIRTY, like they do, whilst there is still a modicum of time & chance left.
Christ, you have BALPA recognition and yet you still let this sh1te, which is as bad or worse than anything Ryanair have imposed on a non-union workforce, continue, nay prolifigate, and then the union-defenders wonder at the result of the BALPA poll on the other thread.
For crying out loud DO SOMETHING ! ! !
captplaystation is offline  
Old 28th Feb 2010, 13:39
  #111 (permalink)  
 
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I do love the way so many on this forum think there is only one issue outstanding in Easyjet at the minute. I'm sure the cadet issue is important but I can absolutely assure you that it is not top of the membership's priority list..maybe sad but nonetheless true. Chances of a membership ballot for strike action over cadets? Zero.
As for the CC taking backhanders from management.. if you had ever met any of them you'd know that is total BS and shame on those that imply it.
Thad Jarvis is offline  
Old 28th Feb 2010, 14:47
  #112 (permalink)  
 
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Thad Jarvis

" can't see the wood for the trees" springs to mind.

If you cannot see the implications of employing a group of pilots on drastically reduced terms (not Cadets, but experienced F/O's via PARC) AND the inevitable consequences for future recruitment, AND thereafter your goodselves, what is it there to be dealt with that is more important ?
This is the thin edge of the wedge, the further up your @ss you allow them to shove it ,the more it will hurt to extract it

Learn from history, and look where this went in Ryanair. Your lot have a "role model" and appear to be quite determinedly trying to outdo them.
What could be more pressing than stopping this spiral dive to terra firma ?

WHOOP WHOOP PULL UP ! !
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Old 28th Feb 2010, 15:54
  #113 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Thad Jarvis
I do love the way so many on this forum think there is only one issue outstanding in Easyjet at the minute. I'm sure the cadet issue is important but I can absolutely assure you that it is not top of the membership's priority list..maybe sad but nonetheless true. Chances of a membership ballot for strike action over cadets? Zero.
As for the CC taking backhanders from management.. if you had ever met any of them you'd know that is total BS and shame on those that imply it.
I see two major, pressing, issues :

1) The Berlin B scale and contract.
2) The Cadet/PTF/PARC contracts.

The rest is quite frankly secondary. I am astonished that more people are bitching about the crew food or the uniform than this. Even the temp commands are less important than this direct attack on our long term futures. Can't you see this?

Now, what progress has been made on these issues (which have been going on for months)? Appart from the search of a zero cost solution?

If this isn't stopped, then it will spread. And then all we'll be offered with a base transfer or a command will be a PARC contract. An if a base closes it will be PARC or the boot.

If we don't do anything NOW we are f***ed.
ZBMAN is offline  
Old 28th Feb 2010, 16:13
  #114 (permalink)  
 
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ZBMAN has summed it up.

You've demonstrated that you can't negotiate anything with this management team, and whilst most pilots are normally against industrial action, it is now the only action.

Q - How much one would day's strike cost EZY?
A - More than their FO savings from this contract nonsense.

This should be justified on safety and a fair wage - and we're talking a fair wage in the context of spending £50k+ post tax to get it.

I really think that this will be like the banks. By the start of 07, everyone thought their lending behaviour was normal to generate shareholder profit and the risks carefully managed. Then several of them crash - the regulator gets blamed, the public want to know why they weren't aware, press have a field day and everyone "expert" pipes up saying they warned of this years ago. Well now's your chance to make a stand and find your backbone as talk is easy.
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Old 28th Feb 2010, 19:32
  #115 (permalink)  
 
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These contracts will end soon at EZY but it's not the ineffectual EZY CC who will stop them, it will be BALPA and the CAA.

Eazyjet are breaking quite a few rules regarding these contracts, unfortunately the EZY CC and pilots are too useless to stop it going on.
whatdoesthisbuttondo is offline  
Old 28th Feb 2010, 19:41
  #116 (permalink)  
 
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but it's not the ineffectual EZY CC who will stop them, it will be BALPA and the CAA.
CAA wont. They are a regulator and unless there is smoking hole in the ground they wont. Even then, they will only address regulation from a saftey standpoint not employment contracts.

BALPA ? Horse.. Gate.. Bolted...
Bruce Wayne is offline  
Old 28th Feb 2010, 21:08
  #117 (permalink)  
 
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whatdoesthisbuttondo,

What rules are these then ?

I am sure if you can point them out there will be no shortage of "whistleblowers" within Easy only too keen to contact the relevant authority to bring them to their attention.

Unfortunately, the rules are so lax that they are probably not breaking any, but if you know better I (and I am sure countless seriously p1ssed off Easy employees,and indeed p1ssed off unemployed pilots) would be glad to hear about them.
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Old 28th Feb 2010, 21:25
  #118 (permalink)  
 
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The rules are CAA's own regarding UK employees being employed on a permanent basis not a temporary one.
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Old 28th Feb 2010, 21:40
  #119 (permalink)  
 
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There have been many temporary contracts in the UK aviation sector before. The CAA has nothing to say about this. What is the problem when people accept new contracts and current employees say nothing?
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Old 28th Feb 2010, 21:46
  #120 (permalink)  
 
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BTW, is the boss Andy Harisson still supposed to leave the company next June? Where is he going and who's going to replace him?

He looked totally pissed off on this video:

YouTube - George Monbiot meets easyjet chief executive Andy Harrison
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