Astraeus A320 Contracts

[c9m]

Quote Rainboe:

"Your own company 'did it to you'. AEU was just responding to a business opportunity, like several other companies were trying to do as well. It's business, get over it. Look to your own relationship with your own company now and try and see what you can do to rescue your employment opportunities. Stop transferring what you see as 'blame' to another company in another country. Who did this to you, and who is sharpening the broom? Having decided to take this direction, who 'changed their mind' and reneged on the contract.
Good luck if you think that FR is riding to the rescue. What do they need with 320s and vastly overpaid pilots? But that is their business."

I get the impression that the pilots (whose jobs AEU's management sought to poach) are under no illusion as to the role their own gaffers played in this current scheme. As far as I can deduce, none of EI's cadre bear any malice or ill-will to the hapless individuals employed by AEU for the A320 operation. With that out of the way, your post raises some interesting points:


1. AEU must have been the lowest, cheapest bidder in town. Does that speak volumes?

2. Since your pedigree for posting suggests that you're "in the know" on just about any topic: can you tell everyone why EI "reneged on the contract?" Or are you speaking in your euphemistic tongue again and you meant "reneged" on the contract. Having spent circa €9m for a service I'd want full bang for my buck - if that's not mixing currencies. I anticipate that that question's rhetorical for you - you seem to read and ignore posts from anyone that expresses a contrary view. But seriously, I'm sure that many people would like to know (beyond standbyils' BGO) why EI/AEU came to part? And, finally,

3. Is xenophobia encouraged at AEU? Or is it just an anti-Irish thing? Maybe AEU's tri-graph should be better as BNP? That you regard the hallowed turf of England's green (and in some places at least) pleasant land as "another country" - . Nice one!

c9m

[Rainboe]

I hate people that can only talk in obscure riddles. I tend to not listen to them anymore....... Came to the conclusion they were autistic and living in their own world a little too much. I used to know great swathes of Shakespeare, but it's gone now- real life intervened. But i don't think even Shakespeare would understand the relevance of his prose to the Aer Lingus internal problems! My old dog had internal problems with her female bits. I think this one will be just as messy.
Early start, goodnight Sir!

[stansdead]

Rainboe;

You just amaze me. I couldn't give a tupenny xxxx what happens in AEU. I think I've said my piece, but for you to say this....

"You lot don't seem to understand it was a standalone operation that impinged in no way on any AEU pilots. None of us knew what was going on, and had no interest in any way. That the operation is going will be unfelt as well."

....is surely somewhat erroneous.

I thought the unfortunate recent A320 recruits are now being laid off?

Surely that hurt must be felt by someone? Even if that hurt is just a little prick.

[Rainboe]

Good, well neither of us can give a toss what happens in either company now. The sad casualties are the temporary staff taken on because of an AL contract that AL reneged on. Whose fault is it now? Their aeroplanes are going. It's tragic. I would hope they expressed their displeasure with those at fault. A bizarre way to behave in business, and not AEU's problem any longer. Good luck with them, you're going to need it. But save your displeasure for where the blame lies for this fiasco- AEU could have happily kept its side of the bargain. The owner of the ball took it away for nefarious reasons. I shouldn't expect him to bounce it back to you.

[stansdead]

Rainboe,

Happy Christmas. I do mean it as well.

You've had a tough time on here this year. What with justifying the new "industry standard terms and conditions" that your recently employed, soon to be unemployed colleagues should be grateful to receive.

And then there was the unseemly fight over pensions. Well, what ho, You sure did the right thing by taking that fat transfer value pot from B.A. (no, really, I'm quite respectful to you for that. You were never going to see your gilt edged trough eaten by anyone other than you I'm sure).

Not to mention of course your tacit acceptance and promotion of undermining fellow professionals.... all the while enjoying benefits way above the norm (paid more than your new "lucky" AEU colleagues and a pensioner to boot).


As a new year's resolution, I would look hard at who you are, what you've got and the advice you give others. It needs to be consistent.

Happy Christmas.

[c9m]

Quote:

"AEU could have happily kept its side of the bargain. The owner of the ball took it away for nefarious reasons. I shouldn't expect him to bounce it back to you"

Do tell, what wicked scheme could EI have that would trump blowing €9m of shareholder's prospects on paying AEU's managament to pimp-out its pilots? Surely you should be asking your Company what other nefarious plans it has up its sleeves - so you don't get caught out like the poor guys that had no idea what the EI/AEU A320 contract was all about.

To everyone else, yes, I'm sorry - I shouldn't be devoting time and bandwidth to Tommy. Is it just me, or does LHC and Rainboe's relationship creep you out?

c9m

[Kirks gusset]

Curser, I'm sure there's life there but not as we know it! Now, I can't expand on the advanced knowledge that the forum members possess, however, one question o wise one..If AEU was contracted to train all the AL crews out of LGW why did they first have an agreement with Alteon, then IAGO as they had no trainers of their own.. seems a little short sighted..perhaps it was opportunistic as Rainboe suggests and not the web of deceit implied here, or maybe it was a plan to confuse the enemy.. In any event, Happy Christmas

[Puritan]

It'll be almost certain that AEU has a clause in the contract which covers a break / breach of contract by EI, therein I'd hazard an educated guess that, one way or another, AEU will get some level of payment out of this from EI.

[Rainboe]

Hello again Puritan, yes, AL commissioned the contract, operable word being 'contract'. AEU merely responded to the contract, owing no duty or allegiance to AL pilots in Dublin or anywhere else. We live in a global village now, this is how business is contracted! Was it wrong for Swindon workers to start building Nissans, for Toyotas to be built in the UK? According to the logic of these viperous AL pilots, they should have declined these jobs as they are undermining jobs for Japanese car workers! And the Twinnings Tea jobs should not have migrated from Andover to East Europe! But they did, and AL was desperate to offload over-expensive pilot employment contracts to a foreign land to get out of their liability! Instead of asking why AEU did it (just another contract), you lot should be wondering have you overcooked the goose that was laying your golden egg (yes). It sounds like you are about to learn a lesson in economics, one of which is 'sustainable pay and contracts'. Your own company wanted you out- remember that. That's what this is all about. They have now decided to do things a different way. Who knows what the different way is- maybe it is surrender to you, but I think not. AEU kept to its side of the contract instigated by AL- we are very proud of doing our best to fulfill our contracts to the best of our ability. Take your beef to your own management, not here!

I do not have an insider's ear- I don't know the whys and wherefores, and have never been in the remotest way connected to any AL matters. I find the whole thing cynical and bizarre though. If you start something, you don't drop it after a couple of weeks. But it is all on contract anyway. AL will take its planes back, the staff that were taken on temporarily for this contract will not have any planes to fly. I have only spoken to them briefly once- all great chaps with enthusiasm, but AL has obviously had a better idea. You should fear the 'better idea', I suspect!

We're back on my pension, Stan? Very sad! Instead of discussing the point and your side of the argument, you resort to that as a way of 'demolishing' the opposition? It's private mate! I earned that honestly as part of my remuneration over 34 years, and contributed heavily in AVCs, and I'm still paying in. Nobody's business but mine (and the IR), and apparently a source of fascination for you! I could have put that money into property and business and could have been sitting on a goldmine, and nobody would have criticised private wealth and working on. But you have a curious fascination about it you just can't let go! I'm still on the right side of 60 and can hold a licence for another 5 years, so it is really none of your business what I chose to do! Let's drop the pension mate, shall we?

Kirk, I don't understand the significance of your point. AEU bid for and was awarded the contract by AL. With no experience whatsover of Airbus, and obviously no trainers, a new set-up was created to introduce the 320 into the fleet. We have one now as well as growing fleets of 737s and 757s, all crewed by highly enthusiastic (and experienced and loyal) pilots, and all planes devoted to specific contracts. So what were you saying?

[Rainboe]

Well after 34 years in BA, I have seen nothing in AEU training to make me think standards are any lower than there. In fact, with frequent audits by Star Alliance confirming it, Astraeus standards have come out better than some of the larger members of the Star Alliance group. Training up for AL a large number of new crew on a new type can't have been easy, but it has apparently been done to acceptable standards to the CAA, so any issues you have, see how far you can take them there!

It has been known for a long time the owner wanted Airbus. However, it was not as suitable for the owner's operation because of payload/range issues, and also the extreme weather that exists up there. The 737 is able to do over 5 hours with a full load and matches the market better. The Airbus talk was long before AL came anywhere near the scene, so there were no Machiavellian schemes going on. The whole AL thing was dropped in our laps with minimal notice, and I don't know how it was achieved so well given it was a new type never experienced before in the company.

If AL has changed its mind and has either surrendered or decided to tackle its problem a different way, then there is a parting of the ways. But AEU was fulfilling its side of the contract AL gave it, and is not due the critical comments from casualties, or soon to be casualties, in Ireland or elsewhere. Sort your problem out with your own company (or you may soon alternatively 'get sorted'), but AEU went into this contract to fulfill its terms. People are directing abuse at the easy target, rather than the cause of their trouble! Pity they don't have the courage to speak to those responsible in the same vein! That I would like to see! But they won't- far easier to sound off (anonymously) at a target that can't fire back, and isn't the one that pays you the vastly overinflated salaries (for now). Guys, you have a mystery battle coming up- save your energies!

[Alexander de Meerkat]

Rainboe - weighed in the balance and found wanting. Good to see Astraeus are being kicked out of AL. Good news for all pilots with an interest in the future of the industry rather than an interest in themselves.

[Rainboe]

Well you are not involved! Let me guess, you are a loudmouth junior EJ pilot who knows how everything should be. Come back in 30 years Sonny! When you are shaving every day!

[Alexander de Meerkat]

standbyils - as AEU management you will understandably resent the unpleasant debate that has taken place here and the unfavourable outcome to this contract. It turns out NSF and others were totally correct in their assertions and, despite personal abuse and misinformation from a number of contributors, their views have been shown to be completely correct. I am pleased that the vultures hovering out the barely-breathing carcass of Aer Lingus have been sent packing for a while. No doubt there will be many more twists of the knife but for the moment this is the only appropriate outcome. If Aer Lingus jobs are to go soon, then this contract will have nothing to do with it. All you did was attempt to form a cartel against the Irish unions - mercifully they saw what was happening and did something to stop it.

Round 2 to IALPA, and time for a quick breather. Very soon, the cry will go out, "Seconds out, Round 3". I hope that the IALPA boys will be well rested, as they are going to get a few well-placed head shots in the opening exchanges. I daresay they will get in a few body blows themselves. The good news is you chaps are not going to get the ringside seats you had hoped for - more pay per view in a back room somewhere.

[ska-bearbaiter]

I'm always chasing Rainboes...

Rainboe.....for a silver surfer you aint half acting like a petulant child:-

Well you are not involved! Let me guess, you are a loudmouth junior EJ pilot who knows how everything should be. Come back in 30 years Sonny! When you are shaving every day!

Did you get a sick note from matron excusing you from the CRM course whilst at BA?

Well as someone who IS involved let me reiterate what Alexander said.

What your company provided was a back of fag packet approach that may be good enough for you, but here at Aer Lingus, it just doesnt pass muster.

That they've been given their marching orders is good news for anyone with a vested interest in maintaining this industrys high standards that seem to matter less and less to the bean counters and the growing number of pilot 'mercenaries' out there who'll do anything for a buck.

And lets be clear here. Your company knew for months about the EI contract as did many of your fellow pilots and many others on this very thread - (heck even one of your new FO's was told of the EI connection at his interview in late summer),so just about everyone except you apparently? Either you're in denial or you've been spectatularly misinformed about the nature and extent of your company's 'nefarious dealings' with EI.

In short, perhaps you need to spend less time on Pprune (nearly 4000 posts in 4 years, thats got to be a record!) and more time taking an interest in whats ACTUALLY going on at your place of work.

Regards, as always,

The Skab-airbaiter

[Rainboe]

Well some of you really do have your heads in the clouds!

I am pleased that the vultures hovering out the barely-breathing carcass of Aer Lingus have been sent packing for a while.

It was AL that went out touting for contracts to 'vulturise' its own staff! Why should that be? Ask yourselves why a company goes through all that to act against its own staff? AEU was not a vulture- more like one of those little pilot fish that accompanies sharks! And be aware, that shark is now turning on you. It's going to be interesting to see what comes next. But that shark is AL, and it knows what it has to do to survive, because nobody is going to cough up the money to featherbed you guys in your extraordinary contracts any longer. The Irish taxpayer has had enough, no investor will touch it. Good luck with MOL! I'm sure he will be happy to honour your deal! (not)

[ska-bearbaiter]

Rainboe Brite

.....Ah, right, I get it.....so that would make you an accomplice then!

....Accessory to the fact ...so you're happy with that being your valuable contribution to this industry....

Just wondering, did you even read my last post? Or are we co-existing on parallel threads?

The Skab-air baiter