Astraeus A320 Contracts
I Have Control
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Leave Leo alone!!!
Leave Leo alone...his stuff is the most fascinating and relevant of most contributions.....even some of mine, and I can be an RYR detractor from time to time....all healthy stuff.
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Listen Pako9,
Dont you worry none about old Leo boy there. No-one with half a brain pays any attention to his cr*p. Infact he's generally viewed as the slightly odd kid who gets into the swimming pool and then takes a dump.....everyone just swims away shaking their heads in contempt.
But on closer inspection we can see that this poor fellow has in his last post, not just laid your average steaming pile of poo....no, what we have here is a bonafide turd 'turducken'! (Google if required)
Only he's gone for variations on a theme with the poultry....
What he did, you see, was take the cuckoo, wrapped it all up in a Ryanair parrot and then the whole stinking lot is encased in a great big Mullingar Cockerel!
And as piles of sh*t go this post really was a stinker...infact it was fowl!
But I guess such are the perils of talking out of your ar$e....
Regards
The Ska-bearbaiter
Dont you worry none about old Leo boy there. No-one with half a brain pays any attention to his cr*p. Infact he's generally viewed as the slightly odd kid who gets into the swimming pool and then takes a dump.....everyone just swims away shaking their heads in contempt.
But on closer inspection we can see that this poor fellow has in his last post, not just laid your average steaming pile of poo....no, what we have here is a bonafide turd 'turducken'! (Google if required)
Only he's gone for variations on a theme with the poultry....
What he did, you see, was take the cuckoo, wrapped it all up in a Ryanair parrot and then the whole stinking lot is encased in a great big Mullingar Cockerel!
And as piles of sh*t go this post really was a stinker...infact it was fowl!
But I guess such are the perils of talking out of your ar$e....
Regards
The Ska-bearbaiter
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Rainboe,
You really have me confused now. First you put yourself forward as as some sort of self appointed spokesperson for Cuckoostraeus in this venture then whinge when anyone has a pop at you, saying you actually have nothing to do with it....
You then admit you have shown misjudgement....One should not have indulged in discussion, but just let matters follow their natural course. Time to rectify the mistake.......
Does any of this sound familiar to you yet? Or has someone else been posting using your name?
And now youre back! Now you're actually rubbing your hands together with glee at the prospect of me losing my job.
Whilst some people can empathise with an out of work pilot being desperate enough for a job, that he'd trample over a fellow pilot to get their job, you are simply rubbernecking at the scene of an attempt at union busting, with the prostective looting of my job and 99 others. .....and are you actually grinning?
I'm sure BALPA must be really proud to have you as a member...
Great to see you back on this thread...because you have rhetoric to excuse everything , answers for everyone, so I want to know this:-
What words have you got for me as I stand here poised to have MY job stolen from under me?
And what words have you got for my kids, with Christmas just on the horizon?
And maybe youve got some words for my bank manager and mortgage provider as I struggle to figure out how on earth I'm going to keep my house when my wage disappears?
Oh, and I'd love to know what words you have for IFALPA?
Rainboe, I'm all ears....
The Ska-bearbaiter
You really have me confused now. First you put yourself forward as as some sort of self appointed spokesperson for Cuckoostraeus in this venture then whinge when anyone has a pop at you, saying you actually have nothing to do with it....
You then admit you have shown misjudgement....One should not have indulged in discussion, but just let matters follow their natural course. Time to rectify the mistake.......
Does any of this sound familiar to you yet? Or has someone else been posting using your name?
And now youre back! Now you're actually rubbing your hands together with glee at the prospect of me losing my job.
It is going to be a pleasure to see this operation bed in
I'm sure BALPA must be really proud to have you as a member...
Great to see you back on this thread...because you have rhetoric to excuse everything , answers for everyone, so I want to know this:-
What words have you got for me as I stand here poised to have MY job stolen from under me?
And what words have you got for my kids, with Christmas just on the horizon?
And maybe youve got some words for my bank manager and mortgage provider as I struggle to figure out how on earth I'm going to keep my house when my wage disappears?
Oh, and I'd love to know what words you have for IFALPA?
Rainboe, I'm all ears....
The Ska-bearbaiter
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Standbyils, let us get one thing straight. Astraeus has operational control over astraeus operations. There is one commander and one operations control. The danger of such a half baked system is just as you have pointed out, lack of accountability. This is a wet lease in of astraeus under its own AOC and operational control/responsibility for its flights is its own. Aer Lingus operations have been around for 75 years, their reputation is not in question. We have built up a safety culture one can only generate by being around so long. The danger for Aer Lingus is that all that can be undone by one slip up by a competitor airline, its crew or operations whose providence we have no idea of.
But this is beside the point. Aer Lingus crew through IALPA has been begging Aer Lingus management to negotiate for the changing times for almost a year. IALPA got no response even to the offer of 1 months work for free. Meanwhile in the shadows Sean Coyle the CFO (trained under MO'L) spawned this plan to bust our union. It may suit Rainbow to crow from the side lines but anyone who has spent a career protected by a union and then on retirement supports those that undermines another is on morally thin ice and toxic indeed.
But this is beside the point. Aer Lingus crew through IALPA has been begging Aer Lingus management to negotiate for the changing times for almost a year. IALPA got no response even to the offer of 1 months work for free. Meanwhile in the shadows Sean Coyle the CFO (trained under MO'L) spawned this plan to bust our union. It may suit Rainbow to crow from the side lines but anyone who has spent a career protected by a union and then on retirement supports those that undermines another is on morally thin ice and toxic indeed.
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WWW,
How can you post such rude, libellious drivel as your 'multi millionaire hobby pilot' quip ?
I suggest you should post under a name that doesn't have 'moderator' attached to it, in fact you should vacate that post forthwith.
And for your petty minded information, the individual you refer to has an enthusiasm and commitment to the airline and aviation the rest of us can only aspire to .
Nasty little man, you really are.
How can you post such rude, libellious drivel as your 'multi millionaire hobby pilot' quip ?
I suggest you should post under a name that doesn't have 'moderator' attached to it, in fact you should vacate that post forthwith.
And for your petty minded information, the individual you refer to has an enthusiasm and commitment to the airline and aviation the rest of us can only aspire to .
Nasty little man, you really are.
Join Date: May 2008
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How many AEU recruited A320 pilots are actually flying the EI aircraft?
Has the UK based AL A320 fleet expanded whilst under the AEU AOC?
Are any existing UK based AL pilots under threat of loosing their job?
I was of the understanding all AEU recruits are flying the 1 x AEU ad-hoc A320. Unless the UK AL fleet has recently expanded or AL pilots on a UK contract have been laid off, surely it’s just the same AL a/c and crew as before, just under a new albeit temporary AOC? Perhaps someone can clarify how the operation is actually being run.
Seems to me they are just working to ring fence “AL UK Limited” as a self sufficient stand alone operation to protect their interests should the mother ship implode. Which could be five months away we are led to believe.
Has the UK based AL A320 fleet expanded whilst under the AEU AOC?
Are any existing UK based AL pilots under threat of loosing their job?
I was of the understanding all AEU recruits are flying the 1 x AEU ad-hoc A320. Unless the UK AL fleet has recently expanded or AL pilots on a UK contract have been laid off, surely it’s just the same AL a/c and crew as before, just under a new albeit temporary AOC? Perhaps someone can clarify how the operation is actually being run.
Seems to me they are just working to ring fence “AL UK Limited” as a self sufficient stand alone operation to protect their interests should the mother ship implode. Which could be five months away we are led to believe.
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Spider Man, Do you mean the ex AL aircraft, now dry leased to AEU.All the AEU recruited pilots will be able to fly all the 320s. Why not?
As far as one can gather, the fleet is now controlled by AEU, if it expands or contracts really only time will tell. It's all smoke and mirrors!
As far as one can gather, the fleet is now controlled by AEU, if it expands or contracts really only time will tell. It's all smoke and mirrors!
Join Date: Aug 2002
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This is nothing but a union bust wholeheartedly facilitated by AEU pilots. This makes them scabs and they are doing damage to all pilot's future's, not just Aer Lingus'. Many other management teams are observing with great interest what some pilot's will do to screw their profession so this is an issue for everyone, if not now then at some time in the near future. Isn't it about time we had a good old fashioned blacklist? Might make some people think twice.....
Well (as usual) it has not deterred a good old BA/BALPA boy right here on this forum has it? Nor has it hindered BA retirees in the past in my personal experience.
The name of the game seems to be; be a staunch BALPA member until BA retirement at age 55 (because you don't have any realistic option) and then you can go and do as you fancy around the world regardless of IFALPA, local unions or anyone else.
Some folks might call that a "double standard" but I simply could not possibly comment.
P.S. Can you tell me of any organisation that has actually succeeded in achieving anything with a "black list?" Not even in America does it work. I know of one chap who was put on a "scab" list and he has been a B777 captain with Delta for years.
The name of the game seems to be; be a staunch BALPA member until BA retirement at age 55 (because you don't have any realistic option) and then you can go and do as you fancy around the world regardless of IFALPA, local unions or anyone else.
Some folks might call that a "double standard" but I simply could not possibly comment.
P.S. Can you tell me of any organisation that has actually succeeded in achieving anything with a "black list?" Not even in America does it work. I know of one chap who was put on a "scab" list and he has been a B777 captain with Delta for years.
Last edited by JW411; 14th Nov 2009 at 17:31.
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Isn't it about time we had a good old fashioned blacklist? Might make some people think twice.....
It's dog eat dog in this modern global world now, whether we like it or not.
Warning Toxic!
Disgusted of Tunbridge
Disgusted of Tunbridge
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Well you go put good ol' Rainboe top of your list! I shall enjoy the position! As you drive your companies under with excessive cost contracts, you shall have plenty of time to update your list to your heart's content (when ski bearbaiter has time to drag himself away from his peculiar scatalogical web sites).
It's reality pill time in this industry. The traditional 'union power straight-jacket tied management' of companies making eternal losses can no longer be forced to subsidise uneconomic employees by sheer union will-power anymore. Companies will either roll over and start again or do something drastic to survive if they want to stay in business. Companies like BA, mostly profitable, can afford to pay what they like. Companies like AL, profits as rare as a cold day in hell, can no longer be bullied. Look to the death of mass car making and ship building in Britain, largely wiped out by union power straight-jacketing. Be in denial if you like, but something made it worthwhile for AL to do this! Whatever can it be?
It's reality pill time in this industry. The traditional 'union power straight-jacket tied management' of companies making eternal losses can no longer be forced to subsidise uneconomic employees by sheer union will-power anymore. Companies will either roll over and start again or do something drastic to survive if they want to stay in business. Companies like BA, mostly profitable, can afford to pay what they like. Companies like AL, profits as rare as a cold day in hell, can no longer be bullied. Look to the death of mass car making and ship building in Britain, largely wiped out by union power straight-jacketing. Be in denial if you like, but something made it worthwhile for AL to do this! Whatever can it be?
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Ah Rainboe, tomorrow's man in today's world. With your wonderful pension won for you by BALPA, you can now sit proud and watch the industry that gave you everything you have destroyed by the very company you now work for. Supply and demand etc, etc... You are in the fortunate position of not worrying about your next job and therefore can wax lyrical on here about whatever you want. Enjoy the moment as Astraeus's current 'success' may not last. There is a lot of water still to flow under the bridge and you may find that the bridge gets washed away in the coming flood.
However offenseive people like 'fade to grey' might find WWW's comments, there is alas some truth to his view. Your company is made up of Captains blessed by other sources of income and tragically desperate First Officers looking to get their foot on the ladder. I have no doubt that the individual referred to in WWW's post is a great guy who loves aviation, but he is probably wealthy enough to buy your whole airline and therefore is merely a hobby pilot as described by WWW. That is not to insult him personally as he is undoubtedly a highly professional and competent guy - the key fact is he does not need a cent from Astraeus and is therefure unwittingly part of the problem. There are also numerous other individuals in a similarly fortunate position of having other souces of income and that just compounds the issue. The particular tragedy is that we at easyJet were foolish enough to train up a number of your FOs and let them go - an error that has cost us dear as we crew up both Astraeus and Aer Lingus alike. Fortunately there are only so many people who can work for pocket money and eventually the chickens will come home to roost.
Regarding people's offence at Leo's posts, I can only say that I think he is one of the few quality writers on these boards. I agree with virtually nothing of what he says regarding unions, but there are some distinct elements of truth in his take on the state of Aer Lingus. It is a company with massive problems, the scale of which seems to escape many of their Dublin-based pilots. That is not really my concern, although I genuinely wish them success as a company - albeit a long way from Gatwick! Leo has a right to be heard, and when it comes to Irish airlines,there are a lot of people who would do well to hear what he is saying.
Interesting times ahead.
However offenseive people like 'fade to grey' might find WWW's comments, there is alas some truth to his view. Your company is made up of Captains blessed by other sources of income and tragically desperate First Officers looking to get their foot on the ladder. I have no doubt that the individual referred to in WWW's post is a great guy who loves aviation, but he is probably wealthy enough to buy your whole airline and therefore is merely a hobby pilot as described by WWW. That is not to insult him personally as he is undoubtedly a highly professional and competent guy - the key fact is he does not need a cent from Astraeus and is therefure unwittingly part of the problem. There are also numerous other individuals in a similarly fortunate position of having other souces of income and that just compounds the issue. The particular tragedy is that we at easyJet were foolish enough to train up a number of your FOs and let them go - an error that has cost us dear as we crew up both Astraeus and Aer Lingus alike. Fortunately there are only so many people who can work for pocket money and eventually the chickens will come home to roost.
Regarding people's offence at Leo's posts, I can only say that I think he is one of the few quality writers on these boards. I agree with virtually nothing of what he says regarding unions, but there are some distinct elements of truth in his take on the state of Aer Lingus. It is a company with massive problems, the scale of which seems to escape many of their Dublin-based pilots. That is not really my concern, although I genuinely wish them success as a company - albeit a long way from Gatwick! Leo has a right to be heard, and when it comes to Irish airlines,there are a lot of people who would do well to hear what he is saying.
Interesting times ahead.
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As you drive your companies under with excessive cost contracts
How much was the taxi fare on your last night out?
Ticket pricing needs to get real.
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Ticket pricing needs to get real.
Astraeus is company competing in a savagely brutal world, where massive capital investment is required to earn precious few returns, and I for one celebrate their acumen in pursuing such specious crumbs as may fall from the Irish table. Opportunity knocks only every so often, and in the sad Shamrock case, you'd better be quick.
I've only been flying aircraft for thirty years, but in that time I've seen such changes as would defy belief. There are two truths that have withstood the test of time. Firstly, that there will always be wings above a turbulent world, and second, that there will always be young men (and women) who pursue their place above the clouds, by whatever means possible. Unions, despite their best stated intentions to the contrary, have only ever managed to destroy far, far more than they create.
I agree with virtually nothing of what he says regarding unions
Leo.
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Leo
Can you just clarify: what is the truth about the new RYR/BRK contract that has further reduced pilot wages (not salaries)? Is this the case? And if so, how do you feel knowing that, if you are a pilot, and not a manager or the man himself as some people think (I suspect that he wouldn't be too concerned about participating, or what was said on a pilot's internet forum) that the company has just announced pretty healthy profits for the year and instead of rewarding you, is seeking to further screw you over? And if you are on a BRK contract, how long can you afford to keep working for them?
Admit it or not, the fact is, if this rumour is true; you're about to get poorer because your CEO sees, and treats you as a monkey. Not one person that I have ever spoken to (and that includes a pretty healthy number of RYR F/O and Captains) has been able to say that their dream was to fly for Ryanair. Unless this is your case (which would be pretty impressive, and you'd be a stand-out case), stop defending the people who are desperate to get you down to minimum wage, minimum t&c's and max hours, whilst stabbing you in the back and ruling with fear at every opportunity. I won't say that they all hate it, but they would certainly be happy to cast their nets further afield.
I don't work for RYR, which may well be your next point, but most of what I know comes from guys who do so day in, day out (until they can get a job somewhere else).
The company hates you and your colleagues and treats you accordingly; I tire of you all acting like RYR are the saviour of mankind.
Can you just clarify: what is the truth about the new RYR/BRK contract that has further reduced pilot wages (not salaries)? Is this the case? And if so, how do you feel knowing that, if you are a pilot, and not a manager or the man himself as some people think (I suspect that he wouldn't be too concerned about participating, or what was said on a pilot's internet forum) that the company has just announced pretty healthy profits for the year and instead of rewarding you, is seeking to further screw you over? And if you are on a BRK contract, how long can you afford to keep working for them?
Admit it or not, the fact is, if this rumour is true; you're about to get poorer because your CEO sees, and treats you as a monkey. Not one person that I have ever spoken to (and that includes a pretty healthy number of RYR F/O and Captains) has been able to say that their dream was to fly for Ryanair. Unless this is your case (which would be pretty impressive, and you'd be a stand-out case), stop defending the people who are desperate to get you down to minimum wage, minimum t&c's and max hours, whilst stabbing you in the back and ruling with fear at every opportunity. I won't say that they all hate it, but they would certainly be happy to cast their nets further afield.
I don't work for RYR, which may well be your next point, but most of what I know comes from guys who do so day in, day out (until they can get a job somewhere else).
The company hates you and your colleagues and treats you accordingly; I tire of you all acting like RYR are the saviour of mankind.
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I'd be more than happy to discuss the points you raise, 170to5, but this isn't the place. This thread is about Astraeus. Your last sentence is ludicrous. Neither is true, as you well know.
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Actually Rainboe, the name's not Ski-bearbaiter, its Ska-bearbaiter..... you know, Ska as in Scab. But then again I'm not surprised you missed it as you seem to have developed a convenient blind spot on this thread to any references to scab labour, Union busting tactics, or the looting of jobs your company is currently involved in.
You are quite happy to waffle on incessantly about just about anything EXCEPT the very issues at the heart of your company's latest endeavours. You certainly havent answered the questions I asked you in my last post.
And you know, being the company willing to sell its morals for the cheapest price is really nothing to crow about.
But then again you could probably use it in your next marketing campaign:
"Look at us, we'll do anything for money"
And make no mistake, despite your assertions to the contrary, I would have no problem saying any of these things to your face. I stand by everything I have written on this thread to you. My conscience is clear. I do not write with disappearing ink so that my posts mysteriously vanish after a few days/hours.
Would you however, have the gall to look any of the Aer Lingus pilots in the face and say,
"Hey we're stealing your jobs and you know what, its gonna be a pleasure to watch"
which is basically what you've said on this thread under the veil of anonymity afforded by this site.
I think ultimately that its sad that for some reason you have allowed your moral compass to be bent to such an extent that either you just cant see, or you refuse to allow yourself to see, the damage and human cost your company's involvement with Aer Lingus will have to those you would once have called your brothers.........
The Ska-bearbaiter
You are quite happy to waffle on incessantly about just about anything EXCEPT the very issues at the heart of your company's latest endeavours. You certainly havent answered the questions I asked you in my last post.
And you know, being the company willing to sell its morals for the cheapest price is really nothing to crow about.
But then again you could probably use it in your next marketing campaign:
"Look at us, we'll do anything for money"
And make no mistake, despite your assertions to the contrary, I would have no problem saying any of these things to your face. I stand by everything I have written on this thread to you. My conscience is clear. I do not write with disappearing ink so that my posts mysteriously vanish after a few days/hours.
Would you however, have the gall to look any of the Aer Lingus pilots in the face and say,
"Hey we're stealing your jobs and you know what, its gonna be a pleasure to watch"
which is basically what you've said on this thread under the veil of anonymity afforded by this site.
I think ultimately that its sad that for some reason you have allowed your moral compass to be bent to such an extent that either you just cant see, or you refuse to allow yourself to see, the damage and human cost your company's involvement with Aer Lingus will have to those you would once have called your brothers.........
The Ska-bearbaiter
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Quote " you're about to get poorer because your CEO sees, and treats you as a monkey"
170to5 I think you'll find the LH-C is in fact the CEO MO'L so telling him that he will have money taken off him by himself is a bit of a non-starter.
Anagrams rule OK
170to5 I think you'll find the LH-C is in fact the CEO MO'L so telling him that he will have money taken off him by himself is a bit of a non-starter.
Anagrams rule OK