Forced unpaid leave at ryanair
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Ryanair are C**NTS Yes
But we don't need wannabes to tell us how lucky we are. Its because of those comments which MOL & the rest of them read too, that they continue to drag down the terms & conditions regardless of the balance sheet.
And even this year Ryanair will turn healthy profit. The weeks unpaid leave is just a way too make more money plain & simple.
And even this year Ryanair will turn healthy profit. The weeks unpaid leave is just a way too make more money plain & simple.
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Guys... you all are too caught up in this FR thing. Take a look across the Atlantic. Pilots in the US have lost their pensions, severe cutbacks on medical insurance… and yes a hefty pay cuts in excess of 40% as well. Their union reps sold their membership down the river with no guarantee of restoration of benefits, nor reimbursement of reduction of pay when the concessions were negotiated by those officials that the membership put their trust in.
In the scheme of things 2 weeks of unpaid leave results in about a 3.84 percent reduction in base pay. I am not familiar in what the base pay is but the overall cut in pay including flight pay is far less than the 3.84 percent in total.
In the scheme of things 2 weeks of unpaid leave results in about a 3.84 percent reduction in base pay. I am not familiar in what the base pay is but the overall cut in pay including flight pay is far less than the 3.84 percent in total.
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easymoney
The terms and conditions in all companies are getting worse.
Any company ruled by bean counters will be taking advantage of the current climate to improve financial conditions, and any who dont will shortly join the list of failures.
I dont approve of this but I am a realist and in the current climate any flying job is better than none at all.
Over the past 36 years I have had my terms and conditions reduced on more than one occasion the greatest by the introduction of the Bader report of flight time limitations, from that day on I was working twice as hard for the same pay.
Ever since then accountants have been finding ways to reduce terms and conditions.
You cant blame Ryanair for that its been that way since before some of you wingers were born.
If you think you are hard done by think of those poor Guys and Girls who are unemployed and looking to feed their families.
Terms and Conditions were hit post 0/11 and now again as airlines fight for profitability, and they will be the target again in the future I am sure.
The terms and conditions in all companies are getting worse.
Any company ruled by bean counters will be taking advantage of the current climate to improve financial conditions, and any who dont will shortly join the list of failures.
I dont approve of this but I am a realist and in the current climate any flying job is better than none at all.
Over the past 36 years I have had my terms and conditions reduced on more than one occasion the greatest by the introduction of the Bader report of flight time limitations, from that day on I was working twice as hard for the same pay.
Ever since then accountants have been finding ways to reduce terms and conditions.
You cant blame Ryanair for that its been that way since before some of you wingers were born.
If you think you are hard done by think of those poor Guys and Girls who are unemployed and looking to feed their families.
Terms and Conditions were hit post 0/11 and now again as airlines fight for profitability, and they will be the target again in the future I am sure.
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What utter tosh. Pilot salaries represent about 7% of total costs for most airlines. A 1% change in pilot salaries represents a change of 0.07% of total costs. Anyone saying that airlines that do not reduce their costs by one or two multiples of 0.07% will go bust are just scaremonguering for reasons they only know about or completely ignorant of the facts. FACTS chaps, a little inconvenient but a necesary part of any argument.
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The sort of fools who lap up the 'any job is better than no job at all' guff probably also believe that Gordon Brown is now the saviour of the world economy. The term gullible just doesn't do these morons justice. If Ryanair could fill its cockpits with these spineless tits (as opposed to the 60% we already have) then our pay would be considerably worse than it already is. There would be no lower limit to what these types would accept rather than confront the issue of erosion of their pay and conditions.
We are not talking about a failing airline desperate for its employees to save the company by taking a pay cut. We are talking about an aggressive, opportunistic organisation which has jeopardised this year's profitability through arrogance (Ryr is paying $129 a barrel for oil which currently costs about $40). This unpaid leave makes no appreciable difference to the company's results but is designed solely to prepare the way for 1 - 2 months unpaid leave next winter.
Wake up!
We are not talking about a failing airline desperate for its employees to save the company by taking a pay cut. We are talking about an aggressive, opportunistic organisation which has jeopardised this year's profitability through arrogance (Ryr is paying $129 a barrel for oil which currently costs about $40). This unpaid leave makes no appreciable difference to the company's results but is designed solely to prepare the way for 1 - 2 months unpaid leave next winter.
Wake up!
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Some of us have already had a months unpaid leave this winter and I guess most of us are the 60% you're winging about who didn't have any choice as to what 'deal' we were given. Well I guess there was a choice. Not to have any job at all!!!
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Having accepted the Brookfield contract that I presume you are on, your choice now is how you respond to any infringements of that agreement by the company. You can choose to accept any abuse of your t's & c's (such as the imposition of Brookfield Days Off or allocation of more than 4 SBYs a month) or you can choose to challenge any improper manipulation of your contract.
From the tone of your post, I would guess that you might choose the former option and console yourself that at least you haven't been laid off. Much easier than sticking up for yourself, isn't it?
For what it's worth, I am on a Ryanair contract which stipulates that I can be laid off only if the company's workload mean that it is not possible to provide me with work. Given that we carried 11% more passengers than this time last year, I do not believe that it is reasonable for the company to allocate unpaid leave to its permanent employees. I am choosing to challenge that.
Don't kid yourself, there is always a choice.
From the tone of your post, I would guess that you might choose the former option and console yourself that at least you haven't been laid off. Much easier than sticking up for yourself, isn't it?
For what it's worth, I am on a Ryanair contract which stipulates that I can be laid off only if the company's workload mean that it is not possible to provide me with work. Given that we carried 11% more passengers than this time last year, I do not believe that it is reasonable for the company to allocate unpaid leave to its permanent employees. I am choosing to challenge that.
Don't kid yourself, there is always a choice.
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yes,but it is easier to convince oneself that their is no choice,so as to make the constant degradation of ones terms and conditions palatable.accepting the majority apathy,may not be a personal affront but it is a form of cowardice.those of us who choose to make a difference,go about it.all be it discreetly but there are people of integrity in ryanair who choose not to be led as sheep.
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Before slagging off or accusing of cowardice FlyingRat or indeed any contract pilot, it is well to bear in mind that many ( particularly ex Cadets) are in considerable debt/ didn't choose to be contract as opposed to full time/ can have their monthly income "manipulated" very easily if they make waves. It is great to ask people in vulnerable positions to make waves, but at least be realistic enough to accept the position they are in. I think we all have the same ideal view of how we would like Ryanair to behave, but lecturing/berating someone whom Ryanair are proud "they don't have to sack, just stop rostering them for flights" in a situation where every week more rated pilots get dumped on the market is rather blinkered on your part. Every Dog has it's day, now is almost for sure not our time as pilots in a frankly totally devastated market place, look at the "news" 
on ppjn from time to time . . . . . or can't you see the problem ?
on ppjn from time to time . . . . . or can't you see the problem ?
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Hudson Bay, I believe the loss will be instantaneous. The "stated desire" is to save money now , not to offer a pay per month scheme for 1 year. Perhaps someone who has already been " gardening" can contradict me if I am wrong.
In the case of the contractors it is clear cut, no flying for a month = no pay for a month, however that is the case whenever they are on leave, all leave for them is unpaid per se as they are paid per scheduled block hour completed.
In the case of the contractors it is clear cut, no flying for a month = no pay for a month, however that is the case whenever they are on leave, all leave for them is unpaid per se as they are paid per scheduled block hour completed.
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catsplaystation,
You are of course right that many Ryanair pilots feel vulnerable. It's not just the cadets - ask a Captain with a big mortgage, negative equity and school fees how secure he feels. Yes, we are all vulnerable and can use that fear to excuse our individual apathy and cowardice (yes, I do mean cowardice).
That's why I don't expect any one individual to feel able to solve the problem. What I do expect that individual to do is get off his arse, join a union, turn up to meetings and support his colleagues. In short, take ownership of the problem and take an interest in his future.
Ryanair can manipulate us so easily because we are all content to act as vulnerable, self-interested individuals. They would not be able to manipulate a group of hundreds of pilots acting cohesively. It really isn't difficult to grasp, is it?
As long as I am one of only a handful of pilots who can be bothered to turn up at a BALPA meeting, then I feel more than comfortable for berating my less-enlightened colleagues for their collective apathy.
You are of course right that many Ryanair pilots feel vulnerable. It's not just the cadets - ask a Captain with a big mortgage, negative equity and school fees how secure he feels. Yes, we are all vulnerable and can use that fear to excuse our individual apathy and cowardice (yes, I do mean cowardice).
That's why I don't expect any one individual to feel able to solve the problem. What I do expect that individual to do is get off his arse, join a union, turn up to meetings and support his colleagues. In short, take ownership of the problem and take an interest in his future.
Ryanair can manipulate us so easily because we are all content to act as vulnerable, self-interested individuals. They would not be able to manipulate a group of hundreds of pilots acting cohesively. It really isn't difficult to grasp, is it?
As long as I am one of only a handful of pilots who can be bothered to turn up at a BALPA meeting, then I feel more than comfortable for berating my less-enlightened colleagues for their collective apathy.
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I find myself 100% in agreement with you, and I too share the frustration you feel that many are too apathetic/scared to even discuss the problem or look for a solution.
All I seek to do is avoid alienating/berating colleagues whose support we need but who at this moment feel too vulnerable to make themselves visible due to their own & the general situation that we are all in. I believe with very few notable exceptions ( where are you Leo ? ) we are all pretty much agreed that one day this train needs to stop & go the other way before it ( our profession no less) hits the buffers. How to get the masses to at least contribute a piece of coal ( nobody asked you to go mining) to stoke the engine doesn't seem much of an ask, but jeez, we ain't there yet.
The latest Aer Lingus thing could be the Trojan horse we need, or are our green colleagues about to find out the real gravity of what they have been "missing" ? time will tell.
All I seek to do is avoid alienating/berating colleagues whose support we need but who at this moment feel too vulnerable to make themselves visible due to their own & the general situation that we are all in. I believe with very few notable exceptions ( where are you Leo ? ) we are all pretty much agreed that one day this train needs to stop & go the other way before it ( our profession no less) hits the buffers. How to get the masses to at least contribute a piece of coal ( nobody asked you to go mining) to stoke the engine doesn't seem much of an ask, but jeez, we ain't there yet.
The latest Aer Lingus thing could be the Trojan horse we need, or are our green colleagues about to find out the real gravity of what they have been "missing" ? time will tell.
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You're right I did 'choose' the Brookfield contract but like I said the only choice was more unemployment having spent another £20k!
You make assumptions that I am lying back and not trying to defend my position but our position is further weakened by a certain union now using us Brookfield guys as cannon fodder for the Ryanair crews as per the recent mailing.
I totally support any action that strengthens all of our Ts&Cs but do not like it when we are blamed as the ones who are causing the Ts&Cs to be erroded.
You make assumptions that I am lying back and not trying to defend my position but our position is further weakened by a certain union now using us Brookfield guys as cannon fodder for the Ryanair crews as per the recent mailing.
I totally support any action that strengthens all of our Ts&Cs but do not like it when we are blamed as the ones who are causing the Ts&Cs to be erroded.
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I don't distinguish between Brookfield and permanent employees.
I have flown in both seats with a large number of Ryanair pilots over the last few years. Among them are guys (and girls) who have balls, whether they happen to be on a BRK contract or a Ryanair one. There are also plenty of timid individuals who will do anything to avoid conflict with the company. Included in that group are 50 year old captains, 20 year old FOs, BRK contractors and Ryanair employees. These people are the reason why the company finds it so easy to impose the latest cost-cutting wheeze.
It's not about your contract or your rank. It's about whether you have self-respect and object to being treated like a moron by ill-educated opportunists who are chasing their latest performance-related bonus.
I have flown in both seats with a large number of Ryanair pilots over the last few years. Among them are guys (and girls) who have balls, whether they happen to be on a BRK contract or a Ryanair one. There are also plenty of timid individuals who will do anything to avoid conflict with the company. Included in that group are 50 year old captains, 20 year old FOs, BRK contractors and Ryanair employees. These people are the reason why the company finds it so easy to impose the latest cost-cutting wheeze.
It's not about your contract or your rank. It's about whether you have self-respect and object to being treated like a moron by ill-educated opportunists who are chasing their latest performance-related bonus.
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With Ryanair being a FTO and bashing the circuit nearly everday at EMA churning more and more (not needed right now) pilots out of its revenue generating scheme (sorry pilot training scheme) it can only go one way.
How long before Ryanair start a bidding system whereby you state how much (little) you are prepared to work for say a block of 50 hours and the lowest bidder gets the work!!
There is very little cost in the business that Ryanair can take out now,but the largest is crew cost, if you can half that (at least for the F/o's) its big bucks, the danger is if the rest of the industry follow suite.
Whilst some Ryanair Pprunner seem to take delight in watching MOL being an arse and slagging off other airlines, it is these airlines that offer salvation against what will become Ryanairs T&C's on the road to hell, after all if he shuts down the likes of baby, Jet2 and others accross Europe, you will be left with like or lump it ,MOL thinks pilots have been paid to much for too little for too long
How long before Ryanair start a bidding system whereby you state how much (little) you are prepared to work for say a block of 50 hours and the lowest bidder gets the work!!
There is very little cost in the business that Ryanair can take out now,but the largest is crew cost, if you can half that (at least for the F/o's) its big bucks, the danger is if the rest of the industry follow suite.
Whilst some Ryanair Pprunner seem to take delight in watching MOL being an arse and slagging off other airlines, it is these airlines that offer salvation against what will become Ryanairs T&C's on the road to hell, after all if he shuts down the likes of baby, Jet2 and others accross Europe, you will be left with like or lump it ,MOL thinks pilots have been paid to much for too little for too long
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UKviking I agree with most of what you say and think that the way Grim Repa speaks to you is deplorable. i just dont like working for FR.
Repa- you call people COCK and then at the end say we must keep united and have respect for one another! you appear to fight with anyone / everyone. if as you say much good work has been done please enlighten us.
I remember a REPA post some 18 months ago now saying guys guys dont accept the 5/4 deal, dont take the extra £10k gross because in a few days we'll be back with a cunning plan. well Baldrick, lets hear it and i fear the new Balpa campaign will tread the same path unless we get some cannon fodder to go to a tribunal, and that Grim repa is where you come in. Take off your Lord Haig hat, put on your Private Baldrick uniform and be the first out of the trench. And i'll be where your location says BEHIND YOU !!
By the way if someone stole my pension i think i would have left by now.
in any case i ve had my week of unpaid leave, i dont like it but i am according to you a PUSSY and will not be doing anything about it. I refuse to be lead by people like you. and until someone with higher PQs persuades me otherwise i will continue to just fly the plane and take the Ryanair **** and post very infrequently on here and the other site. i may not remain at ryanair forever but i will go when the time comes.
good luck guys, dont push limits.
Repa- you call people COCK and then at the end say we must keep united and have respect for one another! you appear to fight with anyone / everyone. if as you say much good work has been done please enlighten us.
I remember a REPA post some 18 months ago now saying guys guys dont accept the 5/4 deal, dont take the extra £10k gross because in a few days we'll be back with a cunning plan. well Baldrick, lets hear it and i fear the new Balpa campaign will tread the same path unless we get some cannon fodder to go to a tribunal, and that Grim repa is where you come in. Take off your Lord Haig hat, put on your Private Baldrick uniform and be the first out of the trench. And i'll be where your location says BEHIND YOU !!
By the way if someone stole my pension i think i would have left by now.
in any case i ve had my week of unpaid leave, i dont like it but i am according to you a PUSSY and will not be doing anything about it. I refuse to be lead by people like you. and until someone with higher PQs persuades me otherwise i will continue to just fly the plane and take the Ryanair **** and post very infrequently on here and the other site. i may not remain at ryanair forever but i will go when the time comes.
good luck guys, dont push limits.
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COCK being a term of endearment where i come from.Hey sorry if i hurt your or ukvikings feelings.looks like you won't take any **** from me and good for you.you will continue to take the ryanair ****,as you have pointed out.you see it is so much easier to bury your head in the sand and not rock the boat than stand up against what you know is wrong.what term would best label you,well in your heart and soul you know what you are!!!