Forced unpaid leave at ryanair
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My voluntary 6 weeks unpaid leave is just about to come to an end.
I have enjoyed fabulous weather, interesting places to see and cheap living in the Land of Smiles.
I return to the **** weather and Labour's ruinous idea of a recovery plan for the UK economy in a few days and only wish I could afford to take another six weeks off!
Some of us actually welcomed the idea with open arms!
Every cloud has a silver lining and I have simply taken advantage of the cloud hanging over all of you in recent weeks.
Maybe more of you should try it?
I have enjoyed fabulous weather, interesting places to see and cheap living in the Land of Smiles.
I return to the **** weather and Labour's ruinous idea of a recovery plan for the UK economy in a few days and only wish I could afford to take another six weeks off!
Some of us actually welcomed the idea with open arms!
Every cloud has a silver lining and I have simply taken advantage of the cloud hanging over all of you in recent weeks.
Maybe more of you should try it?
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poor misguided clowns.one week this year,one month next.but i guess for you guys that will be ok also.it must be some kind of syndrome that makes one create excuses for harsh treatment of oneself by others.I suppose it is easier to lay down and be mounted,than stand up and be counted.no surprise that there are always some spineless twats willing to accept any old crumbs from the big mans table.stick and stones baby,sticks and stones.i would rather be the queen of englands bastard than be like you bunch of useless gentlemen!!!
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repa,
if anyone of us operating under EU Ops completes their 900hrs in 10 months we have 2 months unpaid leave to look forward too.
What's your beef if the company fly you to the limit in 10 or 11 months? You can't make any more than 900hrs pay!
if anyone of us operating under EU Ops completes their 900hrs in 10 months we have 2 months unpaid leave to look forward too.
What's your beef if the company fly you to the limit in 10 or 11 months? You can't make any more than 900hrs pay!
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Slim, please stop distorting what you know to be the facts. Your statement is only true for a contract pilot. As you well know a full time employee would continue to receive his basic salary even if he ran out of hours. In point of fact he wouldn't run out of hours anyhow, they would leave him with 5hrs available and keep him on SBY for 2 months, no way leaving you home on 2 months extra paid leave.
Grim, I don't know if you are making some kind of statement these last few months, but could you consider refamiliarising yourself with the " Cap Lock" button on your key board ?
As always the truth lies somewhere between these two slightly extreme views. There is probably no real financial necessity to put anyone on forced unpaid leave, what should have happened is that the contractors should have been flown less if there was a reduction in flying available. I don't say this with any antagonism whatsoever for these guys, but that is after all the accepted nature of contract flying. It is also probably true that this whole thing is a dress rehearsal for dishing out a month or more of U/L next year to everyone who runs out of hours. In their ideal world RYR would employ everyone as contractors anyhow, and once the magic 900 was reached no dosh. That is an easy enough concept to grasp, just multiply 900 by the hourly rate and that is your maximum gross earnings in any 12 month period ( approximately of course as we are talking scheduled for payment & actual for limits) even if you receive it in 10 payments. However many of you chaps are somewhat inconveniently on a full time contract so they had to find a way of not paying you when your hours run out . . et viola
Amongst all this, look at the desparate state of aviation and ask yourself, is this really a time that I can actually defend my conditions? why can't I see the wood for the trees? Does getting excited about 1 week / 1 month off really justify the rise in my blood pressure ? ( most importantly can I actually change anything, will enough of my colleagues support my desire to say No ?)
These questions can only be answered by your goodselves. From both sides of this argument I sense a blinkered approach, Grim ranting and raving when he knows full well he is wasting his time, the other side trying to justify the unjustifiable. . it's really OK you know to say "it's not on but I can probably do cack all about it" . . . because. . .
THAT gentlemen, is the truth of the matter, it's wrong, but really, at this moment in this situation so fecking what,unless you have a REALLY cunning plan, is that so difficult to say and give us all a bit of peace & quiet for chrissakes
Grim, I don't know if you are making some kind of statement these last few months, but could you consider refamiliarising yourself with the " Cap Lock" button on your key board ?
As always the truth lies somewhere between these two slightly extreme views. There is probably no real financial necessity to put anyone on forced unpaid leave, what should have happened is that the contractors should have been flown less if there was a reduction in flying available. I don't say this with any antagonism whatsoever for these guys, but that is after all the accepted nature of contract flying. It is also probably true that this whole thing is a dress rehearsal for dishing out a month or more of U/L next year to everyone who runs out of hours. In their ideal world RYR would employ everyone as contractors anyhow, and once the magic 900 was reached no dosh. That is an easy enough concept to grasp, just multiply 900 by the hourly rate and that is your maximum gross earnings in any 12 month period ( approximately of course as we are talking scheduled for payment & actual for limits) even if you receive it in 10 payments. However many of you chaps are somewhat inconveniently on a full time contract so they had to find a way of not paying you when your hours run out . . et viola
Amongst all this, look at the desparate state of aviation and ask yourself, is this really a time that I can actually defend my conditions? why can't I see the wood for the trees? Does getting excited about 1 week / 1 month off really justify the rise in my blood pressure ? ( most importantly can I actually change anything, will enough of my colleagues support my desire to say No ?)
These questions can only be answered by your goodselves. From both sides of this argument I sense a blinkered approach, Grim ranting and raving when he knows full well he is wasting his time, the other side trying to justify the unjustifiable. . it's really OK you know to say "it's not on but I can probably do cack all about it" . . . because. . .
THAT gentlemen, is the truth of the matter, it's wrong, but really, at this moment in this situation so fecking what,unless you have a REALLY cunning plan, is that so difficult to say and give us all a bit of peace & quiet for chrissakes
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Received 7 days unpaid leave which was docked from my pay for November. This amounted to around 900 euro less basic pay. Even if i work my 900 hrs, i will never recover it . This is a pay reduction of 2 % . Hope this clears up what a pay reduction is to some of the readers.
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Can't make 900 Euros up ?
Missingfuel, 900 Euros is apx. 800 £ with the current exchange rate. I guess you are based in DUB as you are paid in Euros. Are the 900 Euros before or after tax ? Worst case, after tax it will be like 33 hours of sceduled flying from STN. Many pilots do less than 900 hours so you can't say you never can make that up because you don't know where you will end up untill march 2009 ? The reason for giving STN and DUB the unpaid leave is because most other bases do considerable less hours, my self less than 500 hours this year !!
Compared to the pilots doing 900 hours in STN and DUB, I will loose something like 9600 £ net just because of a different base !! I think most of you guys supporting this thread are a kind of egoistic as you only look at your own problems instead of the pilot force united, what would you like the most ? 1 week unpaid leave or only about 500 hours a year ? Maybe we need a thread thad demands equal yearly hours for all FR pilots ?
Compared to the pilots doing 900 hours in STN and DUB, I will loose something like 9600 £ net just because of a different base !! I think most of you guys supporting this thread are a kind of egoistic as you only look at your own problems instead of the pilot force united, what would you like the most ? 1 week unpaid leave or only about 500 hours a year ? Maybe we need a thread thad demands equal yearly hours for all FR pilots ?
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Yet again let's stop the tedious game of tennis, clunk grunt thunk grunt. . . of course he will never have the 900e back. He may work his b@lls off ( unlikely but possible ) from now till 31st March but then he could have done anyway without losing 900e. That 900e is a dead parrot, gone mate, never coming back.
missingfuel, thanks for a straight answer to a straight question
UK Viking, if you don't like it where you are and want to work harder you could always bid for STN or DUB. . . . . No ? ? thought not.
Being stuck in Stansted Airport Essex mate ought to attract a far higher premium than the difference between 500 & 900 hrs of sector pay as far as I am concerned.
missingfuel, thanks for a straight answer to a straight question
UK Viking, if you don't like it where you are and want to work harder you could always bid for STN or DUB. . . . . No ? ? thought not.
Being stuck in Stansted Airport Essex mate ought to attract a far higher premium than the difference between 500 & 900 hrs of sector pay as far as I am concerned.
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Wrong again
Captplaystation, you are wrong, I know the premium as I actually live there, no big diff. but at least im am not whining like you are. Concerning Missingfuel, no proof he lost the 900 E, he might end up with exact the same yearly net income as if he had'nt the unpaid leave, so, as well as you say they are gone, I say they are not ! It all depends, and in that case no good for any evidence or proof. I did'nt choose my base either and would apreciate to have STN base even with the unpaid leave.
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UK Viking,
I don't understand your argument. MissingFuel says he has had his pay DOCKED by 900€.
From what I understand of his post, that means he has lost 900€ of his basic salary (that's what happened to my friends at STN anyhow).
So, how can he regain the 900€ docked basic salary? No matter how hard he works in subsequent weeks, FR are NOT going to give him back his missing week are they? Yes, he may earn more flight pay, but his basic pay has been cut by approx 2%.
If you don't understand that, I know a good Maths Teacher. She may be able to guide you through the basics. I also know a pyschologist if not.
Explain your methods.
I don't understand your argument. MissingFuel says he has had his pay DOCKED by 900€.
From what I understand of his post, that means he has lost 900€ of his basic salary (that's what happened to my friends at STN anyhow).
So, how can he regain the 900€ docked basic salary? No matter how hard he works in subsequent weeks, FR are NOT going to give him back his missing week are they? Yes, he may earn more flight pay, but his basic pay has been cut by approx 2%.
If you don't understand that, I know a good Maths Teacher. She may be able to guide you through the basics. I also know a pyschologist if not.
Explain your methods.
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stansdead,
I thought it was a fairly simple concept too, obviously not.
UK Viking, I said in my opinion STN ought to attract a premium not a London weighting allowance, my opinion ( and that is all it is ) is nothing to do with the cost of living and everything to do with the quality of living (specifically at work ) associated with that place. But if you fancy being based there, well good luck ,but be careful what you wish for in life
I thought it was a fairly simple concept too,
obviously not. UK Viking, I said in my opinion STN ought to attract a premium not a London weighting allowance, my opinion ( and that is all it is ) is nothing to do with the cost of living and everything to do with the quality of living (specifically at work ) associated with that place. But if you fancy being based there, well good luck ,but be careful what you wish for in life
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Can any ryanair pilot who agrees with this illegal pay docking please explain why they are able to contort themselves into a position to defend micko no matter what he does them? Stockholm syndrome springs to mind.
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UK VIKING
Let's keep it simple
You are flying 500 hours and get 12 months pay
STN fly 900 hours and get LESS then 12 month pay
It's not difficult to work out who is getting shafted here.
I rather fly 0 hours and get 12 month pay
Let's keep it simple
You are flying 500 hours and get 12 months pay
STN fly 900 hours and get LESS then 12 month pay
It's not difficult to work out who is getting shafted here.
I rather fly 0 hours and get 12 month pay
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Camel
Illegal? Tad emotive, dear boy. One of the terms in my contract is reproduced below. I presume your contract is similar. That being the case, can you explain or amplify why it is illegal, or unreasonable?
Can any ryanair pilot who agrees with this illegal pay docking please explain why they are able to contort themselves into a position to defend micko no matter what he does them? Stockholm syndrome springs to mind.
EXCESS CAPACITY
Because of the uncertainty or the airline business circumstances could arise where Ryanair has excess capacity. If we are required to reduce our activity level for any reason. it is a condition of this job offer that you accept the right of the Company. at its sole discretion, to give you compulsory unpaid leave for the duration of the period of excess capacity or to terminate your employment.
Because of the uncertainty or the airline business circumstances could arise where Ryanair has excess capacity. If we are required to reduce our activity level for any reason. it is a condition of this job offer that you accept the right of the Company. at its sole discretion, to give you compulsory unpaid leave for the duration of the period of excess capacity or to terminate your employment.
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Will some one please explain the moral case for laying off fulltime employees at one base while emplying contractors at another? If there is a lack of work at the first base, surely the moral case is to offer fulltime employees the first option to work for 1 week at another base in the network where they are obviously needed. I have heard that contractors have been used at STN & DUB while fulltime employees are laid off. Can anyone confirm yes/no. If yes, how that it be justified under current labour laws?
"it is a condition of this job offer that you accept the right of the Company. at its sole discretion, to give you compulsory unpaid leave for the duration of the period of excess capacity ..........."
If a contractor was used, anywhere in the network, in place of a fulltime employee, it is therefore demonstrated that there is not excess capacity. This would be especially significant if it happened at a base where there was compulsory unpaid leave rostered. Is this not a breach of the above clause?
"it is a condition of this job offer that you accept the right of the Company. at its sole discretion, to give you compulsory unpaid leave for the duration of the period of excess capacity ..........."
If a contractor was used, anywhere in the network, in place of a fulltime employee, it is therefore demonstrated that there is not excess capacity. This would be especially significant if it happened at a base where there was compulsory unpaid leave rostered. Is this not a breach of the above clause?
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Slim, as you well know, everyone is on different contract. It's part of the divide and conquer strategy that has seen your real earnings plummet over the last few years. To answer you question as to the illegality of the unpaid leave, I believe RAT 5 has eloquently done so for me.
Oh and Slim, no I won't stop "whining". You ought to heed the words of JFK:
I think it is obvious to to which company the analogy with JFKs' nation can be drawn.
Oh and Slim, no I won't stop "whining". You ought to heed the words of JFK:
We are not afraid to entrust the American people with unpleasant facts, foreign ideas, alien philosophies, and competitive values. For a nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.