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Monarch T & C's

Old 16th May 2007, 14:20
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Just to point out to 185lbs the membership to BALPA for new joiners has a 50% reduction in year one and 25% reduction in year two. So its not 1% of your gross salary, it is only 0.5% year 1 and 0.75% year two of gross salary.
...of which a large chunk is off-settable against tax anyway.

I used to have a similar attitude to BALPA membership as 185lbs.
Since the introduction of the tax offset and BALPA's seccessful negotiation of FREA's, I don't think you can really use that as a good reason not to join.

I also didn't think we had a good company council a few years ago, and so I thought my money would have been wasted. That again is not an argument anymore as we now have an extremely knowledgable and robust council who certainly mean business. (The sooner management realise this, the better IMHO!)

It is for those reasons I joined, and also why membership figures have continued to climb to what is probably an all time high.

185lbs of ballast - You are your own person who is more than capable of making your own judgments and choices and not someone I suspect that would take much notice of some of the rather silly comments that have come your way here by one or two people.
All I would say to you is this:
What is about to develop over the next few weeks is as relevant to you (as a non-member of BALPA) as it is to me (as a member of BALPA).
I understand and somewhat agree with your thoughts regarding you signing a contract of work and the feelings you have regarding strike action which you feel is breaking the t&c's of that contract. I would put this to you though... Do you not think that this loyalty and commitment should also be returned to you by the management? As you may or may not have understood, it is that very contract you signed under good faith that the COMPANY are now trying renege on...!

Do you think the Company shares your same guilt about changing the terms of that contract? I'm sure you know the answer to that!

Personally, I prefer to throw my support behind my CC and colleagues and have a say as to what happens, instead of merely sitting on the side lines. That support, if you chose to lend it, would cost you less than an outbound sector to Tenerife in allowances a month! Besides, if you felt in 12months time that you still were unhappy, you would have helped the cause in a particularly important time for us all, and you can resign from BALPA at any point.

Just trying to add a bit of balance here....

...the choice of course is yours.

Best rgds

TM&S
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Old 16th May 2007, 16:06
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Very well put teamilk&sugar, pressure has to be put on management to stop them just changing the contract signed by individuals. It is a two way agreement which would be honoured by by the individual if management valued and respected there staff. Management also decided to only do any negotiations with the unions and not individuals or splinter groups, to simplify their task running the company many moons ago.
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Old 16th May 2007, 23:09
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185lbs
dissolving into playground antics such as name calling and comments that sound very much like “you're not in our gang” and “it’s my ball, you’re not playing”
Wait till you see what happens when you cross the picket line, as you will be required to do as a non-member of BALPA.
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Old 17th May 2007, 09:54
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"Wait till you see what happens when you cross the picket line, as you will be required to do as a non-member of BALPA."

Whoops please do elaborate.
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Old 17th May 2007, 11:01
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Whoops please do elaborate
I don't think it needs elaboration. If you're struggling with the concept I suggest you google Quantas, TWA or PanAm pilot strikes (amongst others). Include 'scab' in your search keywords.
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Old 17th May 2007, 11:09
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P.S.

Before anyone gets on their high horse....

All I am suggesting is that emotions will be running on overdrive during a strike and history tells us that these emotions take a long time to simmer down. For many, the actions of others are never forgotten.
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Old 17th May 2007, 11:40
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Of course, when the shoe is on the other foot, just how many BALPA members volunteered for the Argentina A300 contract, many years ago, when there was industrial action within the pilot workforce?
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Old 17th May 2007, 11:48
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Whoops

Sorry to say it but I don't think your posts will be forgotten whoops.

This is a time for all to stay calm and together. This ranting will only divide.
You have to remember, even those not in the union can help by going sick, or working to rule. Just because they are not members doesn't exclude them from taking some form of action. And frankly threatening people is not going to encourage anyone to join a union.

If the union is strong, and gets results either by action or negotiation, then you will see very high membership.

The only way to encourage people to be a part is by talking, not cyber abusing. This forum is a great place for discussion, we have to listen to all points of view, even if you disagree.

We Are all strong TOGETHER, its the only way the likes of TJ, PB and RS are going to take notice.
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Old 17th May 2007, 12:38
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I am not threatening anyone; just pointing out to 185lbs what history has already taught us. I certainly was not 'cyber abusing'.

I have heard from at least two non-union members that they will 'throw a sickie' on strike days rather than join the union. I think the company will be wise to this and the company doctor will be on hand to check out all sickness claims.

So your choice is very clear:

1. Join the union, if only for the period of action, and strike legally with help and support from your colleagues and big Balpa.
2. Don't join and go sick. Expect an immediate appointment with the company doc.
3. Don't join and go to work and hold your head up high.

My view, and as this is a discussion forum I am entitled to give it, is that I believe number 1 is the best option. Membership, after tax relief, for someone earning £50,000 a year will be under £7 per month. If the dispute lasts till the end of September that will total less than £35.

I believe that option number two is the cowards way out. My view only.

Those, whose moral stance (as it surely can't be financial) is to take option 3, will need a strong backbone throughout, and after the strike. I trust this stance will continue after a deal is done when they will refuse any payrise earned by their brethren. Could I suggest that they contribute any pay increase over 4% to charity each month?
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Old 17th May 2007, 15:00
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I trust this stance will continue after a deal is done when they will refuse any payrise earned by their brethren. Could I suggest that they contribute any pay increase over 4% to charity each month?
Surely the idea behind democratic workings is that you take what the majority have voted for whether or not one is part of that majority? I'd love to, though I think it hardly feasible, to opt out of say higher taxes introduced by a government for which I have not voted. Or take it further and disregard what I consider to be unfair legislation.

It cuts both ways, you can vote for, against or abstain. When it comes to voting, abstention is a perfectly valid choice, however it certainly does not follow that having abstained that the outcome of any vote does not apply to you. I'd say our man has every right to enjoy whatever comes of all this. He simply isn't inclined, as you are, to play a part in directing its outcome. Your subsription to balpa buys you this priviledge. Fair enough no?
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Old 17th May 2007, 19:43
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LGW pilots meeting

I see R.S. has found time in his "train wreck" of a schedule to visit the troops down at LGW.
I hope he gets a two fingered salute, and the message is sent loud and clear.
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Old 17th May 2007, 19:44
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With the greatest of respect Caudillo your argument cuts both ways. 185lbs's actions are akin to saying I forgo my right to vote in exchange for not paying my taxes, somewhat different from abstention, no?

I think it's worth reiterating that 185Lbs has made it explicitly clear that his objections are purely fiscal rather than moral, which is why he elicited such heated responses. He made pretence at having a moral stance which we all could, and I certainly would, have respected him for however this was quickly disproved. As it transpires he doesn't want to pay union fees but does want to reap all the benefits of membership by receiving the same pay rise and seeking information via PPRuNe.
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Old 18th May 2007, 00:15
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Perhaps we could put it to RS that anyone not in the union should not benefit from any future payrise. I am sure he would jump at the chance to save a few quid
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Old 18th May 2007, 11:12
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Will the next scene be from Hamlet or Julius Caesar?

Please can we only have one LGW pilot holding the knife....

... no, ...you can't all play that part..

Hold on...

..pilots form LTN, MAN and Brum also want to help too...

..there will be blood on the floor.
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Old 19th May 2007, 20:10
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So did anyone go to RS's meeting ? hope anyone who did got up after 5 mins of silence and left.

Last edited by nilcostoptionmyass; 19th May 2007 at 23:32.
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Old 21st May 2007, 20:04
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Come on guys, SOMEBODY must have gone to the meeting, what did RS have to say?
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Old 21st May 2007, 21:05
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would you go?

why would anyone want to go and talk to a moron who has scre*d us over the last few years? He has single handedly managed to reduce our work conditions. I wonder what his point of view would be if he was on this side of the fence?
Come on, would you make an effort on a day off, I wouldn't and didn't, cause it certainly wasn't set up for the pilots benefit.
Let the CC deal with him, I think the management are about to get what they never expected the pilots to do....unless of course they give us 12% or more!
I hope the cc doesn't back down and sell out
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Old 22nd May 2007, 13:07
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Monarch are recruiting again according to this week's flight
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Old 22nd May 2007, 13:52
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You don't say, Monarch are always recruiting now because they have such a high turn over of new blokes.

SOME of the management are convinced they are recruiting 'top' notch staff...........

Last edited by nilcostoptionmyass; 22nd May 2007 at 21:51.
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Old 24th May 2007, 18:55
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I'm reading all this and I find it hard to believe that company that once has been a top choice for many has fallen so low
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