Flybe to aquire BA Connect. Crew thread. (No Spotters)-(Part 2)
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Fradley
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BAR BHX Staff
Tristar, I totally understand your frustrations.
Check this out BA Connect Staff got 1.5% of their basic salary in a Lump Sum Gesture for all their hard work in February's pay even though they failed to make a profit which we did not get a sniff off. And dont forget back last summer we didnt get the the mainline profit share bonus either so talk about kicking us when your down.
I am becoming completely disillusioned with BA and our unions cos we have to deal with all the crap especially when LHR stage their annual walkouts and what thanks do we get? Sweet FA!
Check this out BA Connect Staff got 1.5% of their basic salary in a Lump Sum Gesture for all their hard work in February's pay even though they failed to make a profit which we did not get a sniff off. And dont forget back last summer we didnt get the the mainline profit share bonus either so talk about kicking us when your down.
I am becoming completely disillusioned with BA and our unions cos we have to deal with all the crap especially when LHR stage their annual walkouts and what thanks do we get? Sweet FA!
flybeee, I take it all back. You don't have your head in the sand; rather you have no idea of real life at all. You have been at flybe for the grand total of 2 years... you refer to British European....
...my history goes back to Jersey European!
Look, you obviously cannot understand that someone like me saying there are problems is not trying to slate the airline.. I know there are mega lifestyle / rostering problems... I want JF et al to ADDRESS those problems to make flybe an airline that people want to STAY with!!!
You have seen 2 years so you don't know any different.. and it is undoubtedly your first airline job. Until you have witnessed other airlines, you do not know what it SHOULD (or could) be like.
I feel like I am banging my head against the wall with you blinkered people. There ARE problems with lifestyle and rostering... otherwise flybe would not have the shortages is does! FACT!!! If/when the deal finally goes through, I pray to God that the crew shortages will be sorted... if so, then flybe will (I hope) become a very major player in the UK lowcost market.
I just feel like Samuel L Jackson telling John Travolta that my eyes are wide open right now...
stop taking it so personally. When rostering stability issues are addressed and sorted, it may get back to the days when remoak remembers... minor problems, but you felt you were part of the solution.
good luck to the realists though.
...my history goes back to Jersey European!
Look, you obviously cannot understand that someone like me saying there are problems is not trying to slate the airline.. I know there are mega lifestyle / rostering problems... I want JF et al to ADDRESS those problems to make flybe an airline that people want to STAY with!!!
You have seen 2 years so you don't know any different.. and it is undoubtedly your first airline job. Until you have witnessed other airlines, you do not know what it SHOULD (or could) be like.
I feel like I am banging my head against the wall with you blinkered people. There ARE problems with lifestyle and rostering... otherwise flybe would not have the shortages is does! FACT!!! If/when the deal finally goes through, I pray to God that the crew shortages will be sorted... if so, then flybe will (I hope) become a very major player in the UK lowcost market.
I just feel like Samuel L Jackson telling John Travolta that my eyes are wide open right now...
stop taking it so personally. When rostering stability issues are addressed and sorted, it may get back to the days when remoak remembers... minor problems, but you felt you were part of the solution.
good luck to the realists though.
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: back of the crew bus
Posts: 1,312
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
rhythm method
Well said. Some of these newbies have no idea at all. Loyalty is a good thing, but it needs to be tempered with a healthy dose of reality.
Most of the people who are saying that all airlines have these problems, have only ever worked for one!
Well said. Some of these newbies have no idea at all. Loyalty is a good thing, but it needs to be tempered with a healthy dose of reality.
Most of the people who are saying that all airlines have these problems, have only ever worked for one!
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Wouldn't you like to know !
Posts: 87
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Carve up of the pig
Flybeee said
Well, quite a lot of us did - thank goodness!!!
I begin to wonder if it is best for the deal to go ahead in Flybeee's eyes. I am so glad I finally had the guts to leave, however I have a fair piece of deferred pension with the sliced pig machine, and I now suspect this is in jeopardy. I thought that BA were paying sufficient into the pot to remove the deficit, however I bet the present problem is deciding who becomes legally liable for any future deficits. (And watching the stock market, who would bet against that?) My bet is that WW wants rid completely of the liability, (and who can blame him) while JF wants a cast iron guarantee that Flybe will never under any circumstances be liable for any future pension debts. (Who can blame him either - it's an open ended liability). The only way around this would be a completely impractical top-up sufficient to purchase annuities NOW for all concerned. While that would certainly be nice, it is unrealistic.
So, JF and WW continue to play brinkmanship (because the CC certainly knew about this issue from the start) while the airline collapses giving both sides virtual ammunition to use in the negotiations. I suppose from JF's perspective he has nothing to lose, because if the airline shuts down, then there is nothing to buy. WW would probably then try and say sorry, "Dan-Air", and walk away from the wreckage. I wonder who will blink first, because there is certainly an element of posturing on both sides to increase or stabilise the BA bribe to Flybe to take on the rotting carcass of the Porker.
My profound sympathies for all involved at BACON, I cannot even imagine how you are getting on with your lives. Sniping at BAR won't help, though I have to have a wry smile recalling how BRAL/Brymon/BACX/BACON was continually treated as "Plastic BA" for so long by so many at BAR. But......... it doesn't help to say that.
Personally, I think the deal will go ahead, because JF has flotation plans and dates to meet, and expansion plans which, though it appears to gall the Rashers, mean that he needs a large influx of pilots and he's unlikely to get quality commanders in both quantity and the short term in sufficient numbers. Trouble is, that thanks to Cheesy Wotsits, a lot of the "Quality" has banged out. If I didn't know so many people involved, it would actually be all so amusing. Sorry, That's not actually fair on people I don't know, my apologies. Objectively, it's hysterical!
(BTW, the Airbus is a babe!
)
If your friends don't like the airline so much, then they need to address some issues rather than moaning about it............
I begin to wonder if it is best for the deal to go ahead in Flybeee's eyes. I am so glad I finally had the guts to leave, however I have a fair piece of deferred pension with the sliced pig machine, and I now suspect this is in jeopardy. I thought that BA were paying sufficient into the pot to remove the deficit, however I bet the present problem is deciding who becomes legally liable for any future deficits. (And watching the stock market, who would bet against that?) My bet is that WW wants rid completely of the liability, (and who can blame him) while JF wants a cast iron guarantee that Flybe will never under any circumstances be liable for any future pension debts. (Who can blame him either - it's an open ended liability). The only way around this would be a completely impractical top-up sufficient to purchase annuities NOW for all concerned. While that would certainly be nice, it is unrealistic.
So, JF and WW continue to play brinkmanship (because the CC certainly knew about this issue from the start) while the airline collapses giving both sides virtual ammunition to use in the negotiations. I suppose from JF's perspective he has nothing to lose, because if the airline shuts down, then there is nothing to buy. WW would probably then try and say sorry, "Dan-Air", and walk away from the wreckage. I wonder who will blink first, because there is certainly an element of posturing on both sides to increase or stabilise the BA bribe to Flybe to take on the rotting carcass of the Porker.
My profound sympathies for all involved at BACON, I cannot even imagine how you are getting on with your lives. Sniping at BAR won't help, though I have to have a wry smile recalling how BRAL/Brymon/BACX/BACON was continually treated as "Plastic BA" for so long by so many at BAR. But......... it doesn't help to say that.
Personally, I think the deal will go ahead, because JF has flotation plans and dates to meet, and expansion plans which, though it appears to gall the Rashers, mean that he needs a large influx of pilots and he's unlikely to get quality commanders in both quantity and the short term in sufficient numbers. Trouble is, that thanks to Cheesy Wotsits, a lot of the "Quality" has banged out. If I didn't know so many people involved, it would actually be all so amusing. Sorry, That's not actually fair on people I don't know, my apologies. Objectively, it's hysterical!
(BTW, the Airbus is a babe!
)
Last edited by Captain Correlli; 2nd Mar 2007 at 09:06. Reason: More inspiration!
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Western Europe
Posts: 151
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Survey - waddaya reckon?
Just back from a short leave break - I see not much has changed.
I am coming to the conclusion that the amount of 'slagging off' that people post on here is directly proportional to the fears that the same people have for their jobs. Understandable in some respects, but hardly helpful, and not likely to endear them to their new Flybe "managers"
Once upon a time, we used to be able to start a survey on here. Who reckons:
1) This shindig will be completed by the end of the month?
2) It will be complete within the week?
3) It will never be completed, BACON will go bust (and Flybe will triumph) ?
Me? I'm going for option #3
I am coming to the conclusion that the amount of 'slagging off' that people post on here is directly proportional to the fears that the same people have for their jobs. Understandable in some respects, but hardly helpful, and not likely to endear them to their new Flybe "managers"
Once upon a time, we used to be able to start a survey on here. Who reckons:
1) This shindig will be completed by the end of the month?
2) It will be complete within the week?
3) It will never be completed, BACON will go bust (and Flybe will triumph) ?
Me? I'm going for option #3
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Nova
Posts: 1,242
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
TLP
You really must try to differentiate between what you 'think' will happen, and what you just 'want' to happen.
Rumours on the grapevine are that the few ex bacon pilots that do come across, have secured a pretty reasonable 'arrangement'!
Hope you enjoyed your leave.
You really must try to differentiate between what you 'think' will happen, and what you just 'want' to happen.
Rumours on the grapevine are that the few ex bacon pilots that do come across, have secured a pretty reasonable 'arrangement'!
Hope you enjoyed your leave.
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Western Europe
Posts: 151
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
TR - OK, you're correct, re-reading that, I put it very badly. I meant that Flybe will triumph in terms of their own commercial development, because I think being saddled with BACON will not be in the best interests of the Company. I didn't mean to infer a triumph of one set of individuals over another. Remember, I know most of the Rashers, I used to fly with them, and professionally, (as with most reasonable companies) there's nothing to choose between the equivalent Flybes, Rashers or Nigels. Having said that, obviously my prime motive is for Flybe to continue its current success, and I don't believe that being saddled with BACON with help that. For all the slagging of BACON and BA management at all levels, I don't believe that they INTENDED BACX etc to fail, they were just unable to make it profitable Given the amount of consultants employed by the Industry these days, and the fact that not ALL managers are incoherent idiots, there might be some fundamental to the Regional Business that means the BACON economic business model can't work. If that is the case, then I'm not sure repaint and retitling exercise will necessarily do the trick (or the BACX -BACON plan would have worked). While the present Flybe model seems to be a success, and would presumably work to a greater or lesser degree in the long term with BACON, the shambles that always seems to accompany a takeover like this might very well be enough to tip things over again. Flybe has not always been successful, far from it, only ever kept going for decades by the deep pockets of JW. I do not want to see the present formula turned from champagne bubbles into sewage!
No offense intended.
The hols were great, Dubai - what can I say; absolutely brill!
No offense intended.
The hols were great, Dubai - what can I say; absolutely brill!
If they are going to the wire in order to extract the last possible concession, perhaps Jim could ask WW to hand back the LHR slots that BA nicked from Brymon and BRAL. After all, they are just slots and they don't have any real value do they
. Just a small token gesture to close the deal?
. Just a small token gesture to close the deal?
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Nova
Posts: 1,242
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
TLP
The only thing I would disagree with is this. I think as long ago as 2001, BA's regional presence was being set up for 'disengagement' as cheaply as possible. The invention of BACON, and the 'buy on board' product, was IMHO simply the final piece in the jigsaw, to make it as attractive as possible to a potential buyer...
I'm not at all sure it really mattered whether BACX/ BACON ever made a profit or not. Who knows, perhaps they did!
Dubai. Mmmmm. How was the interview??
The only thing I would disagree with is this. I think as long ago as 2001, BA's regional presence was being set up for 'disengagement' as cheaply as possible. The invention of BACON, and the 'buy on board' product, was IMHO simply the final piece in the jigsaw, to make it as attractive as possible to a potential buyer...
I'm not at all sure it really mattered whether BACX/ BACON ever made a profit or not. Who knows, perhaps they did!
Dubai. Mmmmm. How was the interview??
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Western Europe
Posts: 151
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dubai. Mmmmm. How was the interview?? (Great)
I'm not at all sure it really mattered whether BACX/ BACON ever made a profit or not. Who knows, perhaps they did!
Regarding the interview
- what a cynic!!!!!!!!!
I should know within a fortnight. It never hurts to keep one's options open, and as BACON management got closer and closer to Exeter, it seemed.....prudent....to start to look at other possibilities.
Last edited by The Little Prince; 2nd Mar 2007 at 14:32. Reason: spellchecker u/s
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Manchester
Age: 59
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've read and watched all of the stuff on prune for so long, I just finally have to join in - do you REALLY think that we managers have not got better things to do than deliberately screw around with your lives and careers? Do you REALLY think that while we enjoy a joke, a few laughs and a beer, and do get some fun out of identifying you all (yes, there's nothing difficult about hacking into websites should our IT department so wish, or even have our lawyers contact Mr Fyne on libel suites), that we REALLY go out of our way just to make your lives miserable?
You really should all get real; we are doing our best to run profitable airlines in challenging economic climates - pilots - pshaw, it's like herding cats. You can't stick together to save your lives, you offer to work for free, and as soon as you have jobs, it's "Rosters/Seniority/Duty Pay/Allowances/Crew Meals/Day Off Payments/Commands" - you name it, I've heard you whinge about it.
Honestly, do you think for even a nano second that your spoutings on here advance your case (or what you think passes for a case) even one iota?
Pilots eh, I think it fair to say that apparently being a pilot qualifies you to do everyone else's job better than they, and makes you an instant expert in business management/international marketing an economics, when in fact you're just an 'O' level mathematician with (slightly) above average motor skills!
You really should all get real; we are doing our best to run profitable airlines in challenging economic climates - pilots - pshaw, it's like herding cats. You can't stick together to save your lives, you offer to work for free, and as soon as you have jobs, it's "Rosters/Seniority/Duty Pay/Allowances/Crew Meals/Day Off Payments/Commands" - you name it, I've heard you whinge about it.
Honestly, do you think for even a nano second that your spoutings on here advance your case (or what you think passes for a case) even one iota?
Pilots eh, I think it fair to say that apparently being a pilot qualifies you to do everyone else's job better than they, and makes you an instant expert in business management/international marketing an economics, when in fact you're just an 'O' level mathematician with (slightly) above average motor skills!
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Outside the EU
Posts: 147
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
TFM - if the tenor of your post typifies your 'management' thought processes the no wonder matters are in such a sorry state.
By the way, it's 'suits' not 'suites' - I take it that you didn't have to progress beyond Key Stage 3 English to attain your managerial position?
By the way, it's 'suits' not 'suites' - I take it that you didn't have to progress beyond Key Stage 3 English to attain your managerial position?
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: uk
Posts: 267
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sounds like THE FLEET MANAGER wishes he was a pilot and not just an admin clerk !! but with intellect edging towards the lower end of the scale,he should count himself lucky to have paid employment at all !! would we agree ??
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Asia
Age: 61
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well said Fleet Manager, you hit the nail on the head. I have just joined Flybe and from what I see so far it looks good. I will be looking forward to helping my new employer be even more successfull.
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: 18A
Age: 38
Posts: 405
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Flybeeeee
You say that a lot of the BACON people posting have been negative.
Yet you have just said...
"I acknowledge that the deal is taking too long but thats life unfortunately. I for one do not want to see the Bacon deal go through."
Id say that was pretty negative too. flybe's cabin crew t&c's will be bettered by the deal with BACON, we are taking a slight reduction in t&c's.most of the flybe guys & gals i have come across at BHX have been friendly, and if i dont find employment elsewhere, then i look forward to working with them.
The deal doesnt suit everyone, but then we havent been given a lot of information to go on to make an informed decision regarding the future of our careers, thus a lot of people being negative or jumping ship.As was posted earlier on in the thread, it was promised on the nextgenerationairline website that there would be more updates.yet nothing for 2 weeks, no news and nobody knows what is happening.
I hope this is all sorted sooner rather than later.its dragging on too long, causing too much uncertainty and people just want answers so that they can make their decisions.
You say that a lot of the BACON people posting have been negative.
Yet you have just said...
"I acknowledge that the deal is taking too long but thats life unfortunately. I for one do not want to see the Bacon deal go through."
Id say that was pretty negative too. flybe's cabin crew t&c's will be bettered by the deal with BACON, we are taking a slight reduction in t&c's.most of the flybe guys & gals i have come across at BHX have been friendly, and if i dont find employment elsewhere, then i look forward to working with them.
The deal doesnt suit everyone, but then we havent been given a lot of information to go on to make an informed decision regarding the future of our careers, thus a lot of people being negative or jumping ship.As was posted earlier on in the thread, it was promised on the nextgenerationairline website that there would be more updates.yet nothing for 2 weeks, no news and nobody knows what is happening.
I hope this is all sorted sooner rather than later.its dragging on too long, causing too much uncertainty and people just want answers so that they can make their decisions.
