bmi (industrial action vote)
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I just wanted to say to members of staff who are not pilots but who read these threads - this is NOT about the pilots vs the rest of the working groups. That is what the company want you to think it is. I have spoken to engineers, cabin crew and load controllers and they ALL bar none have been supportive. I would urge ALL pilots in mainline, regional and baby, to take every chance they get to make sure that workers in other areas know what the issues are. Whilst we sit at the end with the point on it we all know that in reality it takes a team to get the aircraft into the air.
I would support any working group in the company who are prepared to put their hands up and say - no more, enoughs enough.
Good luck to all bmi pilots.
I would support any working group in the company who are prepared to put their hands up and say - no more, enoughs enough.
Good luck to all bmi pilots.
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Over the last few years we have seen the gradual erosion of our overall package. This was generally accepted by the workforce to ease the company out of the difficult trading circumstances after Sept 11th.
Throughout there was an inference that all would be redressed once we returned to profit. This has not been the case.
All I wish for is realistic recompense with respect to my position as a highly motivated and professional operator.
I have been an airbus narrowbody skipper for many years now, and my take home salary is on a par with a year 1 long haul first officer in BA. When you now factor in a proposed increase of 8.5% (18.5% of gross salary instead of 10%) in my pension contributions for the same benefit then he will be earning more than me! I'm not having a go at BA here, and you could argue that if I don't like it then I could always go there, but I like where I am, I don't want to change seats anyway.
The pension issue has now been added to the list of items that BALPA and the management have 'failed to agree' on, and I for one will be lending my full support.
Throughout there was an inference that all would be redressed once we returned to profit. This has not been the case.
All I wish for is realistic recompense with respect to my position as a highly motivated and professional operator.
I have been an airbus narrowbody skipper for many years now, and my take home salary is on a par with a year 1 long haul first officer in BA. When you now factor in a proposed increase of 8.5% (18.5% of gross salary instead of 10%) in my pension contributions for the same benefit then he will be earning more than me! I'm not having a go at BA here, and you could argue that if I don't like it then I could always go there, but I like where I am, I don't want to change seats anyway.
The pension issue has now been added to the list of items that BALPA and the management have 'failed to agree' on, and I for one will be lending my full support.
Last edited by Dr. Spin; 7th Aug 2006 at 14:35.
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By turning up to work you'll be letting-down your colleagues who are prepared to stand up for their and your working conditions. It most probably won't come to action taking place but it's the only option left for now with the arrogant stance being taken by the management at bmi. As I've said before any axe swinging by Mr. Bishop will be at senior management (mis-management!)
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b mi baby
I take your comments on board and appreciate your adult approach to a discussion,my opinion was exactly that just my opinion
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Looker I did read the previous posts and I am afraid that just because my point of view is different from yours does not mean it is worthless and should not be aired.
I do not see the merit in comments that my opinion is not valid just because I am not a Pilot when the decision you ultimately make will affect myself and thousands of others like me.
It is once again this elitist attitude that lets your colleagues down.
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Perhaps with a more sensible approach to this topic you would have more support as I am not sure that currently the comments that "the work force is behind you" is exactly true.
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Anyway I shall take heed of your advice and butt out of something that does not concern me.
I take your comments on board and appreciate your adult approach to a discussion,my opinion was exactly that just my opinion
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Looker I did read the previous posts and I am afraid that just because my point of view is different from yours does not mean it is worthless and should not be aired.
I do not see the merit in comments that my opinion is not valid just because I am not a Pilot when the decision you ultimately make will affect myself and thousands of others like me.
It is once again this elitist attitude that lets your colleagues down.
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Perhaps with a more sensible approach to this topic you would have more support as I am not sure that currently the comments that "the work force is behind you" is exactly true.
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Anyway I shall take heed of your advice and butt out of something that does not concern me.
Last edited by Vol7; 27th Jul 2006 at 13:11.
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Climb Ltd -
work to rule/go slow/full wings/having fun/lie-ins...?
One thing the bmi pilots need to be at pains to point out throughout this dispute is that they are professionals, and deserve to be treated and valued as such.
If pilots cannot act correctly and professionally at all times at work, then they should not be at work at all.
No half-measures, and certainly no fun to be had during any kind of industrial action.
work to rule/go slow/full wings/having fun/lie-ins...?
One thing the bmi pilots need to be at pains to point out throughout this dispute is that they are professionals, and deserve to be treated and valued as such.
If pilots cannot act correctly and professionally at all times at work, then they should not be at work at all.
No half-measures, and certainly no fun to be had during any kind of industrial action.
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VOL7
VOL7
Just what do you think you have "added" so far to this subject?
What would you like to contribute?
You have been told that you not being a pilot is not a problem, but you are still trying to say something but nothing's coming out.
just because my point of view is different
Just what do you think you have "added" so far to this subject?
What would you like to contribute?
You have been told that you not being a pilot is not a problem, but you are still trying to say something but nothing's coming out.
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Vol 7
You hit the nail right on the head,that is exactly what the pilot workforce is trying to do,show the management they need us more than they think and hopefully SMB will see the effect on his customers and put an offer on the table as its gone past talking they had that chance and blew it.
If it comes down to actual action but dont think for one second that we wont carry out and action,we didnt pick this fight but we are going to finish it.
Oh as for "elitist attitude" I dont know what job do you do but I bet you didnt you pay up to 60K like alot of us have!
I heard a comment about pilots being over paid premadonna's
I disagree we are not overpaid
rgds
K.I.L.
You hit the nail right on the head,that is exactly what the pilot workforce is trying to do,show the management they need us more than they think and hopefully SMB will see the effect on his customers and put an offer on the table as its gone past talking they had that chance and blew it.
If it comes down to actual action but dont think for one second that we wont carry out and action,we didnt pick this fight but we are going to finish it.
Oh as for "elitist attitude" I dont know what job do you do but I bet you didnt you pay up to 60K like alot of us have!
I heard a comment about pilots being over paid premadonna's
I disagree we are not overpaid
rgds
K.I.L.
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ok fine
Rather than beat around the bush and try to be polite about the matter I will come right out with it.
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I think that to strike is a very selfish approach to this problem
I think the Pilots issues are exaggerated and again selfish
Didn't the Pilots threaten to strike over the 2004 pay deal (boy who cried wolf)
It seems to me certain members make it worse for everybody else with their attitude and seem happy to try and run a company into the ground purely for their own gain.
The attitude of some crews give the good guys a bad name
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Why not try and resolve this matter without dragging everyone else down
Work to rule if you have to, refuse to sell days off, refuse discretion but don't just decide to have a few days off and never mind the consequences for everyone else
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K.I.L
I never said that Pilots were overpaid I know how much it costs to learn to fly and have no issues with Pilots Salaries. The elitist comment has absolutely nothing to with money just attitude.
Rather than beat around the bush and try to be polite about the matter I will come right out with it.
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I think that to strike is a very selfish approach to this problem
I think the Pilots issues are exaggerated and again selfish
Didn't the Pilots threaten to strike over the 2004 pay deal (boy who cried wolf)
It seems to me certain members make it worse for everybody else with their attitude and seem happy to try and run a company into the ground purely for their own gain.
The attitude of some crews give the good guys a bad name
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Why not try and resolve this matter without dragging everyone else down
Work to rule if you have to, refuse to sell days off, refuse discretion but don't just decide to have a few days off and never mind the consequences for everyone else
-
K.I.L
I never said that Pilots were overpaid I know how much it costs to learn to fly and have no issues with Pilots Salaries. The elitist comment has absolutely nothing to with money just attitude.
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End of the road
Originally Posted by Vol7
Why not try and resolve this matter without dragging everyone else down.
It is the management who are not prepared to even to meet with our representatives.
The 'demands' if you can call them such, are sympathetic with the position the company finds itself in with regard to the pension deficit, they ask for no more than parity within the industry. In fact the overall outline was the best piece of writing to come out of the New Road in the last decade.
I wish it could be resolved amicably but what you are witnessing is the end of a very long road! We're all fed up and tired of the stagnation, and we're not prepared to walk away!
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Vol 7: Over the last 18 months, the pilots have attempted to resolve the situation without resorting to industrial action.
They have put up with continual stalling and attmepts at fobbing off while they patiently tried to work something out, all the time that 'working into discretion' and selling days off were a significant factor in keeping company/group running at all, for the benefit of all of employees.
Doesn't sound particularly selfish to me.
The threat to strike in 2004 was taken seriously by management, a settlement was reached which was acceptable to all involved, thus there was no need to strike. This is how industrial relations (in their most degraded stage,sadly) work. No crying wolf - the pilots were deadly serious then, as now.
Pilots, perhaps more so than any other group of employees, are acutely aware of the commercial impact of critical decisions which they make daily. The same awareness extends to industrial matters - no sane individual, pilot or not, believes they can gain anything if a company is run 'into the ground', as you put it.
You seem to think this is about spite or some similar emotional response on behalf of the pilots - quite the opposite. Patience, goodwill, and reserves of dignity have been exhausted, the only practical, rational step left open to the pilots, after already attmepting all those avenues you mention, is the threat and, should it become necessary, delivery of industrial action.
They have put up with continual stalling and attmepts at fobbing off while they patiently tried to work something out, all the time that 'working into discretion' and selling days off were a significant factor in keeping company/group running at all, for the benefit of all of employees.
Doesn't sound particularly selfish to me.
The threat to strike in 2004 was taken seriously by management, a settlement was reached which was acceptable to all involved, thus there was no need to strike. This is how industrial relations (in their most degraded stage,sadly) work. No crying wolf - the pilots were deadly serious then, as now.
Pilots, perhaps more so than any other group of employees, are acutely aware of the commercial impact of critical decisions which they make daily. The same awareness extends to industrial matters - no sane individual, pilot or not, believes they can gain anything if a company is run 'into the ground', as you put it.
You seem to think this is about spite or some similar emotional response on behalf of the pilots - quite the opposite. Patience, goodwill, and reserves of dignity have been exhausted, the only practical, rational step left open to the pilots, after already attmepting all those avenues you mention, is the threat and, should it become necessary, delivery of industrial action.
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VOL 7,
So you read the previous posts but clearly you didn't understand the thrust of our arguments.
18 months of negotiations with management who proved to be disengenuous.
18 months of reduced take home pay.
12 months waiting for the imposed pay rise to turn up in our salary.
If you can tell me which other group of workers within bmi has suffered the same treatment I'd like to hear about it.
THIS IS NOT ABOUT A 2.4% PAY RISE - ITS ABOUT A PAY CUT.
GOT IT?
So you read the previous posts but clearly you didn't understand the thrust of our arguments.
18 months of negotiations with management who proved to be disengenuous.
18 months of reduced take home pay.
12 months waiting for the imposed pay rise to turn up in our salary.
If you can tell me which other group of workers within bmi has suffered the same treatment I'd like to hear about it.
THIS IS NOT ABOUT A 2.4% PAY RISE - ITS ABOUT A PAY CUT.
GOT IT?
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VOL7's quotes:
Doesn't matter what you think, let the majority decide.
It's only your opinion, not many others think so.
I do hope you mean the management.
Good guys? Who do you mean? Those not in balpa?
What? Where have you been. You cannot be serious!
I am one of the pilots. Who are you for xsake?
Listen guys, like on all threads there'll always be an odd one that stands out a mile from the rest. Then, everyone homes in and keeps on replying to the odd one out. I think we have a subject to write about and lets leave our friend VOL7 to himself now.
I think that to strike is a very selfish approach to this problem
I think the Pilots issues are exaggerated and again selfish
It seems to me certain members make it worse for everybody else with their attitude and seem happy to try and run a company into the ground purely for their own gain.
The attitude of some crews give the good guys a bad name
Why not try and resolve this matter without dragging everyone else down
I never said that Pilots were overpaid I know how much it costs to learn to fly and have no issues with Pilots Salaries. The elitist comment has absolutely nothing to with money just attitude
Listen guys, like on all threads there'll always be an odd one that stands out a mile from the rest. Then, everyone homes in and keeps on replying to the odd one out. I think we have a subject to write about and lets leave our friend VOL7 to himself now.
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I agree with co pilot, seeing as VOL7 won't be receiving a ballot paper its pointless replying to his ignorant babble.
Speaking of ballot papers mine arrived today .... oh where should I put that cross? One of life's easier decisions
Speaking of ballot papers mine arrived today .... oh where should I put that cross? One of life's easier decisions
PPRuNe Playmate of the Month
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I work with one of the country's leading legal pensions practices and noticed an item on today's electronic bulletin from a reference service widely used in the profession featuring the proposed increase in pension contributions for BMI Mainline pilots. I can say that everyone in my department who saw the item was astounded by the reported proposal by the company to increase contributions from 10% to 18% plus.
I wish those of you involved in the ballot all good fortune and hope for a satisfactory outcome for a situation brought about by most unsatisfactory behaviour by your employer.
I wish those of you involved in the ballot all good fortune and hope for a satisfactory outcome for a situation brought about by most unsatisfactory behaviour by your employer.
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I think Vol got the message,teeth back in at the read guys,right whos next!
Nice to hear what you just posted ********* thanks for the support
Rgds
K.I.L.
P.S. a few tips would be grateful
Nice to hear what you just posted ********* thanks for the support
Rgds
K.I.L.
P.S. a few tips would be grateful
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Just Curious;
How many pilots are in Mainline,Baby & regional?. I know some of the 320 crews as I handle the a/c's at work every day. BMI have already shafted their Engineers in EMA at the behest of the Beancounters, the Hosties are cleaning the cabin for the same reason. Now pilots the beancounters are pointing the gun at you. They have already saved money by stalling you in a waffling exercise for 18 months out of which you have got nothing.. Time to call a spade a spade,downtools ( & Flightplans) and above all stick together & holdout because remember Managment have more to lose than you do. Everyday a fleet of 30 odd A/C are parked up the pressure on them increases to do anything to get them back iun the air. Eventually they will have to cave in. Best of luck!
How many pilots are in Mainline,Baby & regional?. I know some of the 320 crews as I handle the a/c's at work every day. BMI have already shafted their Engineers in EMA at the behest of the Beancounters, the Hosties are cleaning the cabin for the same reason. Now pilots the beancounters are pointing the gun at you. They have already saved money by stalling you in a waffling exercise for 18 months out of which you have got nothing.. Time to call a spade a spade,downtools ( & Flightplans) and above all stick together & holdout because remember Managment have more to lose than you do. Everyday a fleet of 30 odd A/C are parked up the pressure on them increases to do anything to get them back iun the air. Eventually they will have to cave in. Best of luck!
IF action were to take place and IF it was successful in gaining a higher percentage increase, bmi would find itself in a very difficult position with the rest of the non pilot workforce, in as much that pay awards in terms of percentage rises have generally been give to all across the board (for bmi mainline), and some unions may have provisos that if any other departments get a higher percentage award than they settled for, then they would also get the same percentage increase, after all when the company have given rises in the past they always say that they cannot give one section of the workforce a higher percentage than any other! It will be interesting to see how the management get themselves out of this one
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Originally Posted by mccdatabase
IF action were to take place and IF it was successful in gaining a higher percentage increase, bmi would find itself in a very difficult position with the rest of the non pilot workforce, in as much that pay awards in terms of percentage rises have generally been give to all across the board (for bmi mainline)