bmi (industrial action vote)
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Please remember that all three branches of the company (mainline, baby and regional) are balloting on separate issues. Any subsequent industrial stoppages will only affect the branch concerned. However, all three will probably be arranged to coincide for maximum impact. According to the article above it looks like the 'baby' ballots have just gone out. As far as mainline is concerned BALPA still have to give the 7 days notification to the company of their intent to ballot, although this is imminent.
bmi have never paid the 'going rate' for anything and it will be an uphill struggle to alter the mindset of management.
Unfortunately the pilot body rolled over and had their tummy tickled the last time we balloted on industrial action a few years ago and the management probably assumes we will do the same again. I feel they may be in for a shock!
bmi have never paid the 'going rate' for anything and it will be an uphill struggle to alter the mindset of management.
Unfortunately the pilot body rolled over and had their tummy tickled the last time we balloted on industrial action a few years ago and the management probably assumes we will do the same again. I feel they may be in for a shock!
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The press release from BALPA gives some key points / dates.
http://www.balpa.org/Media---Pr/bmi%20release.htm
My only gripe is that this potrays us as a bunch of pilots rejecting a 2.4% pay rise for this year. Actually we're in dispute over the previous year's imposed pay round which resulted in a net loss of income through sector pay and profit share - both unilaterally imposed by management. The fact that we're still trying to sort this out 18 months later gives you some indication of the patience shown by the pilots at Baby and of the intransigence of management.
We're fighting an imposed pay cut, it is not about being sniffy over the size of a pay rise!
http://www.balpa.org/Media---Pr/bmi%20release.htm
My only gripe is that this potrays us as a bunch of pilots rejecting a 2.4% pay rise for this year. Actually we're in dispute over the previous year's imposed pay round which resulted in a net loss of income through sector pay and profit share - both unilaterally imposed by management. The fact that we're still trying to sort this out 18 months later gives you some indication of the patience shown by the pilots at Baby and of the intransigence of management.
We're fighting an imposed pay cut, it is not about being sniffy over the size of a pay rise!
Last edited by Looker; 26th Jul 2006 at 13:25.
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"At the heart of these disputes is the total lack of respect shown by the company towards its key people... the airline pilots," said Jim McAuslan, general secretary of Balpa.
wots the saying again "no 1 player is bigger than the team"!!!
wots the saying again "no 1 player is bigger than the team"!!!
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I am trying to remain impartial on this matter could somebody please tell me exactly what the Pilots expect to get from strike action.
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As far as I can see their two biggest gripes are the imposed 2.4% pay increase that the rest of the groups employees have accepted in these trying times and also the further taxation of sector pay which I understand from the previous posts is due to the inland revenue.
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Surely strike action can only harm the group as a whole and cause an enormous amount of cost which seems to me would only further harm any pay talks in the future.
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As far as I can see their two biggest gripes are the imposed 2.4% pay increase that the rest of the groups employees have accepted in these trying times and also the further taxation of sector pay which I understand from the previous posts is due to the inland revenue.
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Surely strike action can only harm the group as a whole and cause an enormous amount of cost which seems to me would only further harm any pay talks in the future.
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As far as I can see their two biggest gripes are the imposed 2.4% pay increase that the rest of the groups employees have accepted in these trying times and also the further taxation of sector pay which I understand from the previous posts is due to the inland revenue.
Surely strike action can only harm the group as a whole and cause an enormous amount of cost which seems to me would only further harm any pay talks in the future.
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Not a BMI pilot here...just an interested observer
Perhaps the pilot body have exhausted all other means of influencing negotiations...the argument could be made that management have a lot more to lose than the pilots stand to lose
Surely strike action can only harm the group as a whole and cause an enormous amount of cost which seems to me would only further harm any pay talks in the future
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Perhaps it is that they have exhausted all measures, but why should the pilots get more of a pay increase than the rest of the employees I actually think 2.4% is not bad, and why should the company foot the bill for the Inland Revenue increasing the tax on sector pay.
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The rest of the company's employees will suffer as a result of strike action and it seems this don't care attitude from the Pilot community does not do them any favours, on top of that arrogant statements from BALPA like this
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What about everyone else, I understand pilots are a valuable commodity to an airline and also very expensive to train but why not have a thought for the rest of the work force and lets not forget the passengers or does an airline just need Pilots to operate.
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I'm afraid the more I read the less sympathy I have.
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The rest of the company's employees will suffer as a result of strike action and it seems this don't care attitude from the Pilot community does not do them any favours, on top of that arrogant statements from BALPA like this
But the heart of these disputes is the total lack of respect shown by the company towards its key people, the highly trained, highly professional airline pilots,’ said Jim McAuslan, General Secretary of BALPA.
What about everyone else, I understand pilots are a valuable commodity to an airline and also very expensive to train but why not have a thought for the rest of the work force and lets not forget the passengers or does an airline just need Pilots to operate.
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I'm afraid the more I read the less sympathy I have.
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It is lamentable that none of the other groups of employees have been organised enough to take an effective stand against the behaviour of the bmi board.
If they were then I am honestly certain they would be able to count upon support from the pilots, acutely aware as they are of the demands being made on bmi staff in the name of increasing profits.
The future success of all components of the bmi group is without a doubt a concern of the pilot group as well - they are not keen on signing our own death warrant - but they consider it no longer acceptable to build that success at the expense of continuning erosion of their working conditions, family lifestyle and professional dignity.
For example, that profitshare which all employees of baby have shared over the last couple of years has been achieved to a great degree by the pilots, in tolerating roster disruption, years of non-negotiated, delayed, salary impositions, and a slowly degrading quality of life compared to their colleagues elsewhere in industry.
Maybe the group won't make so much money next year as a result of the actions of the pilots, but the feeling is that enough is enough.
FYI, the current situation with the IR, regarding 'baby sector pay, was not initiated by the IR themselves, but by bmibaby management. The pilots feel that such an error should not be paid for out of their expenses.
If they were then I am honestly certain they would be able to count upon support from the pilots, acutely aware as they are of the demands being made on bmi staff in the name of increasing profits.
The future success of all components of the bmi group is without a doubt a concern of the pilot group as well - they are not keen on signing our own death warrant - but they consider it no longer acceptable to build that success at the expense of continuning erosion of their working conditions, family lifestyle and professional dignity.
For example, that profitshare which all employees of baby have shared over the last couple of years has been achieved to a great degree by the pilots, in tolerating roster disruption, years of non-negotiated, delayed, salary impositions, and a slowly degrading quality of life compared to their colleagues elsewhere in industry.
Maybe the group won't make so much money next year as a result of the actions of the pilots, but the feeling is that enough is enough.
FYI, the current situation with the IR, regarding 'baby sector pay, was not initiated by the IR themselves, but by bmibaby management. The pilots feel that such an error should not be paid for out of their expenses.
Last edited by Gary Lager; 26th Jul 2006 at 16:52.
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VOL 7
You don't sound like a pilot to me. That in itself is no problem at all. However you are making postings on a pilot website, on a thread about pilot welfare.
No one has the extra time to explain to you how the company and the Inland Revenue screwed things up exactly. Just take it from the posting pilots that we want to improve our standard of living, to which there are many more "silent" facets then mentioned here. Management are not playing, indeed they treat us as some inconvenient bunch of expensive extras.
Our conditions are deteriorating and going backwards. The first officers are all leaving, there's no future unless we fight for it.
Enough said.
You don't sound like a pilot to me. That in itself is no problem at all. However you are making postings on a pilot website, on a thread about pilot welfare.
No one has the extra time to explain to you how the company and the Inland Revenue screwed things up exactly. Just take it from the posting pilots that we want to improve our standard of living, to which there are many more "silent" facets then mentioned here. Management are not playing, indeed they treat us as some inconvenient bunch of expensive extras.
Our conditions are deteriorating and going backwards. The first officers are all leaving, there's no future unless we fight for it.
Enough said.
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Re: "I fear some of you may be too polite on the picket line"
Watch this space,we had one of the Mis/management who thinks hes a bit of a hard lad, with the usual swearing attitude at the pilot roadshows but he just looked a bit of a t**t.
Its the quite ones you have to look out for amoung the ranks most have the Labrador personality,very easy going until they feel they have been pushed into the corner,and i feel my friend that the corner is getting smaller.
rgds
K.I.L.
Watch this space,we had one of the Mis/management who thinks hes a bit of a hard lad, with the usual swearing attitude at the pilot roadshows but he just looked a bit of a t**t.
Its the quite ones you have to look out for amoung the ranks most have the Labrador personality,very easy going until they feel they have been pushed into the corner,and i feel my friend that the corner is getting smaller.
rgds
K.I.L.
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Basics
[QUOTE=Dr. Spin]
bmi have never paid the 'going rate' for anything
This just about sums the whole problem up. The market dictates a value for goods and services and if that value is not paid then problems ensue. Experienced pilots and A330's (to name 2 completely random examples) have their natural value according to supply and demand and if you don't like like paying that value then these things tend to be in short supply. There's no such thing as a free lunch and if one wants to run a business with integrity and respect, then, as a business owner, I believe one should want to pay a fair (meaning market) rate. Come to that, why not a couple of percentage points more to show the workforce they are respected and valued. See what that does for profit, productivity and the infamous bottom line.
It's all basic management theory!
bmi have never paid the 'going rate' for anything
This just about sums the whole problem up. The market dictates a value for goods and services and if that value is not paid then problems ensue. Experienced pilots and A330's (to name 2 completely random examples) have their natural value according to supply and demand and if you don't like like paying that value then these things tend to be in short supply. There's no such thing as a free lunch and if one wants to run a business with integrity and respect, then, as a business owner, I believe one should want to pay a fair (meaning market) rate. Come to that, why not a couple of percentage points more to show the workforce they are respected and valued. See what that does for profit, productivity and the infamous bottom line.
It's all basic management theory!
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The storm clouds build once more, forecast has never reached anything more than a 'Prob 30'. A big decision required now by those affected - can you afford not to turn up to work? How does this balance up with the desire to finally have your say and be listened to?
Is a strike the best option? The acutest of storms can be weathered ( look at BA), the real pain comes with 40 days and 40 nights of -DZ. Crap metaphors probably, what I'm trying to say is what ever happened to the work to rule, go slow, refuse discretion, full wings etc things you can do to make the same point ( and have fun at the same time!)
Non flying staff - be careful posting on a subject you know VERY little about.
Good luck to you all. Have the lie -in you deserve it.
Is a strike the best option? The acutest of storms can be weathered ( look at BA), the real pain comes with 40 days and 40 nights of -DZ. Crap metaphors probably, what I'm trying to say is what ever happened to the work to rule, go slow, refuse discretion, full wings etc things you can do to make the same point ( and have fun at the same time!)
Non flying staff - be careful posting on a subject you know VERY little about.
Good luck to you all. Have the lie -in you deserve it.
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bmi management understand one thing. Sorry, I should say, Sir Michael Bishop understands one thing - bad MEDIA coverage and negative image of the group - (especially the guys and girls who are responsible for customers lives), is not a good thing. Senior directors heads will roll ( again ) if this gets to actual industural action. I for one support Sir Michael in this previous act.
Dublin ground staff stood their ground during the Aviance take over ,deal -or no deal - , although the reserves from the UK were drafted in to take up the flack. However I would like to see the flight ops directors of all 3 companies draft in Airbus / Boeing / Embraer Pilots at short notice with the hand shake of the CAA.
Stand firm - vote YES.
Dublin ground staff stood their ground during the Aviance take over ,deal -or no deal - , although the reserves from the UK were drafted in to take up the flack. However I would like to see the flight ops directors of all 3 companies draft in Airbus / Boeing / Embraer Pilots at short notice with the hand shake of the CAA.
Stand firm - vote YES.
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VOL 17,
if you want to contibute positively to this thread have the courtesy to read previous posts before you start tapping the keys.
If you had bothered to read previous posts you would have seen pilots in Baby have been patient in the extreme, 18 months of trying to engage the company in dialogue to no avail.
Also its not about a 2.4% pay rise its about an enforced 5% pay cut for some pilots.
if you want to contibute positively to this thread have the courtesy to read previous posts before you start tapping the keys.
If you had bothered to read previous posts you would have seen pilots in Baby have been patient in the extreme, 18 months of trying to engage the company in dialogue to no avail.
Also its not about a 2.4% pay rise its about an enforced 5% pay cut for some pilots.