bmi (industrial action vote)
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Good luck
Sorry to butt in on your thread guys, but this sort of topic is close to m,y heart.........your management attitude is quite the norm these days unfortunately. This is due largely in part to us pilots "inactivity" to be united and ability to stand up to these money pinching sods!!!! It has been happening all over the world for too long and our industry has been dragged down because of it. Sooner or later we have to make a stand and i hope that your cause is strong enough to do this.
Signs all over that pilot bodies are fed up with this on going degregation of conditions and hopefully the worm is turning, now its our turn!!!
Good luck guys/gals!
Signs all over that pilot bodies are fed up with this on going degregation of conditions and hopefully the worm is turning, now its our turn!!!
Good luck guys/gals!
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IndianZZ,
How's this. I am reliably informed the bmi regional staff who position with bmi mainline before / after a duty are still 'on duty' as it were (often after a very long day and hours of hanging around LHR) but are expected to buy their own tea / coffee because it's a bmi mainline service. They are at work, but have no access to refreshments and most wouldn't even dare to bug the cabin crew for a glass of water because they're too busy trying to sell stuff like Heathrow Express tickets and the like.
Signs of a caring employer? No wonder there's trouble at t'Mill. You don't get owt for nowt and staff attitudes will reflect the state of morale.
How's this. I am reliably informed the bmi regional staff who position with bmi mainline before / after a duty are still 'on duty' as it were (often after a very long day and hours of hanging around LHR) but are expected to buy their own tea / coffee because it's a bmi mainline service. They are at work, but have no access to refreshments and most wouldn't even dare to bug the cabin crew for a glass of water because they're too busy trying to sell stuff like Heathrow Express tickets and the like.
Signs of a caring employer? No wonder there's trouble at t'Mill. You don't get owt for nowt and staff attitudes will reflect the state of morale.
Last edited by Roy Avison; 25th Jul 2006 at 07:36.
No offence folks, but I think the gripes about not having tea and coffee available at work, unless paid for, are misplaced. I work for one of the largest airlines and we have to pay for every cuppa. I don't begrudge that at all - in fact I would expect it. Tea and coffee don't grow on trees 
.... ha ha, of course they do. But it still needs to be paid for by someone.
Concentrate your efforts on the other terms and conditions and stop harping on about a cuppa. It looks petty in the extreme when veiwed from out here. Hey, I'm on you're side and have met several former BMI pilots who have joined the airline I fly for - I've heard first-hand. Perhaps just direct your efforts with a bit more thought about what is really important.
.... ha ha, of course they do. But it still needs to be paid for by someone.Concentrate your efforts on the other terms and conditions and stop harping on about a cuppa. It looks petty in the extreme when veiwed from out here. Hey, I'm on you're side and have met several former BMI pilots who have joined the airline I fly for - I've heard first-hand. Perhaps just direct your efforts with a bit more thought about what is really important.
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Don't forget we at bmi regional have to buy our own food when we're operating the flight too. There are no crew meals provided and it's room-only accommodation when we get to the hotel.
Are biggest issue is that we have no scheduling agreement. We can report for our rostered 4 sector duty and end up on a three day nightstop. Our rosters are changed at the last minute leaving us unable to make any personal committments around the published roster. Similar operators like Bacon and Flybe have agreements in place which allow pilots to refuse last minute changes and give compensation if they choose to accept.
If we could make progress on the above we'd be a more contented bunch - and I haven't even talked about the payrise.
Are biggest issue is that we have no scheduling agreement. We can report for our rostered 4 sector duty and end up on a three day nightstop. Our rosters are changed at the last minute leaving us unable to make any personal committments around the published roster. Similar operators like Bacon and Flybe have agreements in place which allow pilots to refuse last minute changes and give compensation if they choose to accept.
If we could make progress on the above we'd be a more contented bunch - and I haven't even talked about the payrise.
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Originally Posted by MrBernoulli
Concentrate your efforts on the other terms and conditions and stop harping on about a cuppa. Perhaps just direct your efforts with a bit more thought about what is really important.
Very, very regular Midland SLF here and you have my full support in your actions for better conditions (if the way they're treating you is anything like the way they're been treating regular customers since last summer, I can fully sympathise). But it doesn't look good if you're getting free tea and water when the revenue pax sitting around you have paid upwards of £260 for a flex economy ticket and still have to pay for their cuppa. Stick to the top issues, and good luck.
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MrBernoulli
It's not about losing focus and fighting for the "wrong" thing. You need to understand - it's all about EROSION. A once free provision, now has to be paid for. It's going backwards and that's what needs stopping. No matter how small it sounds. When joined to all other "gripes" it just adds weight.
saymachnumber
Your conditions are similar to baby's. We also get hoyked around without notice and suddenly you're on a 4 hour later finish from what you've planned.
It is inconceivable that this could continue for much longer. I have heard of pilot's refusing extensions to their duties lately. The airline is like a wounded animal, literally staggering around and relying on a few people that may have any sort of goodwill left in them to "help" prop the program up.
Days off are bought in a frenzy. You're never safe from crewing trying to collar you, even if you're up to 98 hours!!! Always answer your phone drunk if you don't want to work extra.
It's not about losing focus and fighting for the "wrong" thing. You need to understand - it's all about EROSION. A once free provision, now has to be paid for. It's going backwards and that's what needs stopping. No matter how small it sounds. When joined to all other "gripes" it just adds weight.
saymachnumber
Your conditions are similar to baby's. We also get hoyked around without notice and suddenly you're on a 4 hour later finish from what you've planned.
It is inconceivable that this could continue for much longer. I have heard of pilot's refusing extensions to their duties lately. The airline is like a wounded animal, literally staggering around and relying on a few people that may have any sort of goodwill left in them to "help" prop the program up.
Days off are bought in a frenzy. You're never safe from crewing trying to collar you, even if you're up to 98 hours!!! Always answer your phone drunk if you don't want to work extra.
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Terrible state of affairs, echoed in many other airlines, and most of these appalling management styles, and the erosions of Ts and Cs are copied from Ryanair, which is, guess what, non unionised.!
But hopefully, that will change, and as others have said, hacked off pilots will support each other, fight back, and improve conditions and SAFETY for crew and pax alike. Good luck guys.
But hopefully, that will change, and as others have said, hacked off pilots will support each other, fight back, and improve conditions and SAFETY for crew and pax alike. Good luck guys.
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Originally Posted by ajamieson
Couldn't agree more.
Very, very regular Midland SLF here and you have my full support in your actions for better conditions (if the way they're treating you is anything like the way they're been treating regular customers since last summer, I can fully sympathise). But it doesn't look good if you're getting free tea and water when the revenue pax sitting around you have paid upwards of £260 for a flex economy ticket and still have to pay for their cuppa. Stick to the top issues, and good luck.
Very, very regular Midland SLF here and you have my full support in your actions for better conditions (if the way they're treating you is anything like the way they're been treating regular customers since last summer, I can fully sympathise). But it doesn't look good if you're getting free tea and water when the revenue pax sitting around you have paid upwards of £260 for a flex economy ticket and still have to pay for their cuppa. Stick to the top issues, and good luck.
Do remember that cabin crew or flight crew when travelling either off duty or on duty spend a large amount of time in a VERY dry environment. You have to take in far more fluids than you would otherwise have to. Please don't begrudge them a free glass of water to maintain their health.
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Originally Posted by JW411
On the other hand, free coffee and tea are diuretics and make you even more dehydrated!
Quote
Q: So will drinking coffee make me dehydrated?
A: No, coffee is an important source of fluid in the diet and moderate consumption, of 4-5 cups per day for the general population, will have no adverse effect on fluid levels in the body. In fact, experts in nutrition state that coffee can contribute significantly to daily fluid intake.
Q: I have read that I should drink a glass of water for each cup of coffee I consume – is this true?
A: No, the diuretic effect of coffee in moderate amounts is no greater than water. The British Nutrition Foundation confirms this by stating that you do not need to drink more water to compensate for consuming caffeinated drinks.
Unquote
You really should not believe everything you see and read!
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Originally Posted by Fuzzy112
from The Coffee Science Information Centre
...
You really should not believe everything you see and read!
...
You really should not believe everything you see and read!
Anyway, back to the thread...
WHY are you paying £260 for a flex economy ticket when you have to pay for your own tea and coffee? I don't get it. With the greatest respect why do you not vote with your feet?
I sometimes pay the £260 because that's what Midland charges those who need to get from EDI to LHR and back at short notice (fair enough...BA charges a similar amount). I stay loyal to Midland partly because of the lovely people who work there (those that still do). If I really want a cup of tea I can get one in the lounge or just buy one.
Do remember that cabin crew or flight crew when travelling either off duty or on duty spend a large amount of time in a VERY dry environment. Please don't begrudge them a free glass of water to maintain their health.
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Originally Posted by ajamieson
Regular customers are aware of dry cabins - we spend a lot of time in them, too! As I said, crew from both sides of flight deck door have my full support in this current climate...but it really doesn't take too much imagination to source your own food and drink prior to a positioning flight. If you want to take the issue up, why not ask for coffee and bottled water to be provided free in the crew room? Besides, if water is essential for health in the air, how come pax have to pay for it
My flippant comment about coffee and tea was meant to be a joke but it seems that some of you out there are totally lacking in a sense of humour.
Fuzzy112:
You quote research from the Coffee Science Information Centre in evidence!
How incredibly naive. When I was flying long-haul in DC-10s we had medical research prove that by the time we had completed a London - Los Angeles flight, the cabin was only 7% humid. (Very few aircraft nowadays are fitted with humidifiers). The human body likes the atmosphere to be around 90% humid.
Do you think that the Coffee Science Information Centre assumed a 7% humid atmosphere as their model when asked those rather basic and heavily loaded questions?
I was suffering from some strange symptoms after a long flight like this. For example, little bits of light flashing in my eyes and sought help from the aviation medics. I was diagnosed as being dehydrated. I was told to stop drinking coffee and to drink as much as I sensibly could of the nearest thing to water. I never ever had another problem.
Accident Prawn:
"If you've ever flown you'd know it".
I do apologise that 49 years of professional flying is not enough for you. I look forward to further advice from you. In the meantime, get a sense of humour.
BMI Pilots:
I do apologise for the thread creep but I felt I had to answer. I wish you every luck in improving your lot. I have had many mates who have been screwed by the management of BMI without so much as a by-your-leave.
Fuzzy112:
You quote research from the Coffee Science Information Centre in evidence!
How incredibly naive. When I was flying long-haul in DC-10s we had medical research prove that by the time we had completed a London - Los Angeles flight, the cabin was only 7% humid. (Very few aircraft nowadays are fitted with humidifiers). The human body likes the atmosphere to be around 90% humid.
Do you think that the Coffee Science Information Centre assumed a 7% humid atmosphere as their model when asked those rather basic and heavily loaded questions?
I was suffering from some strange symptoms after a long flight like this. For example, little bits of light flashing in my eyes and sought help from the aviation medics. I was diagnosed as being dehydrated. I was told to stop drinking coffee and to drink as much as I sensibly could of the nearest thing to water. I never ever had another problem.
Accident Prawn:
"If you've ever flown you'd know it".
I do apologise that 49 years of professional flying is not enough for you. I look forward to further advice from you. In the meantime, get a sense of humour.
BMI Pilots:
I do apologise for the thread creep but I felt I had to answer. I wish you every luck in improving your lot. I have had many mates who have been screwed by the management of BMI without so much as a by-your-leave.
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Originally Posted by JW411
My flippant comment about coffee and tea was meant to be a joke but it seems that some of you out there are totally lacking in a sense of humour.
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Having been responsible in part for the creep of this thread, I wish to point out that access to tea and coffee is only one tiny issue, I am reliably informed, in a miserable morass of crew-unfriendly, demeaning and dictatorial treatment by the company.
All of this is stuff I have been told at the airfield bar.
Lets get some more detailed commentary from those at the coal-face. Unless of course, people feel afraid to speak out on this forum for fear of a witch-hunt and censure.
All of this is stuff I have been told at the airfield bar.
Lets get some more detailed commentary from those at the coal-face. Unless of course, people feel afraid to speak out on this forum for fear of a witch-hunt and censure.
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Roy
There is a thread running in the bmi forum. However, I think that those of us within bmi are loathe to put private thoughts on such a public bulletin board as this where they will be sniped at by those outside bmi. There is a reticence to hang out dirty washing.
What is needed is a response from us pilots that shows resolve and commitment to acheiving a respectful response from the company. That way we will get the deal we need without the acrimony of inter-divisional wrangling and back-biting.
In my view the only way to acheive this is by using the nominated negotiators (BALPA) - they are the only people that the company will deal with. For those pilots outside BALPA, it would be a positive step in the right direction if they would stop bickering - after all they benefit from from the collective bargaining in the long run.
Anne
Lets get some more detailed commentary from those at the coal-face. Unless of course, people feel afraid to speak out on this forum for fear of a witch-hunt and censure.
What is needed is a response from us pilots that shows resolve and commitment to acheiving a respectful response from the company. That way we will get the deal we need without the acrimony of inter-divisional wrangling and back-biting.
In my view the only way to acheive this is by using the nominated negotiators (BALPA) - they are the only people that the company will deal with. For those pilots outside BALPA, it would be a positive step in the right direction if they would stop bickering - after all they benefit from from the collective bargaining in the long run.
Anne
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The issues that are driving the pilots to ballot for industrial action do not revolve around tea and coffee provision, they are much deeper and all stem from blinkered management attitudes towards employer/employee relations.
Imposition of group pay awards.
Not paying said group pay awards for nearly 12 months.
Refusal of management to sit down and discuss issues, even when the Gen Sec of BALPA is the one requesting a meeting.
Unilateral changes to terms and conditions.
Loss of net income through management stupidity / arrogance.
Whenever I have positioned on Mainline, Baby or Regional the cabin crew have offered a 'crew coffee/tea' without fail. So let's drop the cr*p about tea/coffee.
A great bunch of flight deck / cabin crew led by the most inept managers I have had the misfortune to work for. Bring on the ballot!
Imposition of group pay awards.
Not paying said group pay awards for nearly 12 months.
Refusal of management to sit down and discuss issues, even when the Gen Sec of BALPA is the one requesting a meeting.
Unilateral changes to terms and conditions.
Loss of net income through management stupidity / arrogance.
Whenever I have positioned on Mainline, Baby or Regional the cabin crew have offered a 'crew coffee/tea' without fail. So let's drop the cr*p about tea/coffee.
A great bunch of flight deck / cabin crew led by the most inept managers I have had the misfortune to work for. Bring on the ballot!
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Hear Hear Looker 
ajamieson is a passenger who is likely to be affected when we go on strike and yet he actually supports the crews standing up for what is right. We are fortunate to have passengers like him/her. Allowing the thread to wander into making it look like having free tea and coffee when positioning is a big issue is 
. Okay it may be just another example of bmi's arrogant imposed changes on its workers but to focus on it is daft.
As ajamieson says: stick to the big issue.
Anyone know when do we get to vote? bmi used to be considered a reasonably good airline to travel on, if not to work for, and it seems management are doing a good job of wrecking that too.
Bring it on.
babybaby
ajamieson is a passenger who is likely to be affected when we go on strike and yet he actually supports the crews standing up for what is right
. We are fortunate to have passengers like him/her. Allowing the thread to wander into making it look like having free tea and coffee when positioning is a big issue is . Okay it may be just another example of bmi's arrogant imposed changes on its workers but to focus on it is daft. As ajamieson says: stick to the big issue.
Anyone know when do we get to vote? bmi used to be considered a reasonably good airline to travel on, if not to work for, and it seems management are doing a good job of wrecking that too.
Bring it on.
babybaby