bmi (industrial action vote)
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Dear Mr Flares,
an interesting first post with many points worthy of discussion - thank you for sharing your concerns.
Firstly. let me say that the pilots have not rushed into this action. We have spent 18 months trying to resolve the situation but have finally come to an impasse because the company will not talk to us in any meaningful way.
Secondly, we are sensitive to the fact that the threat of industrial action brings uncertainty over the future and we hope the impasse with management can be resolved without recourse to strike action. However, it is not an idle gesture and management are becoming aware of our resolve.
I'm sorry that you think that the pilots as a group are not team players. From my experience I would like to think that we offered what support we could when the engineers and ground handlers at EMA were badly treated by the company. Had either of these groups decided to go to industrial action they could have relied on our understanding and support.
Companies by nature are heirarchical, there are people at the top, middle and bottom. Generally speaking pilots are neither at the very top nor at the bottom. Who you are is not defined by the job you do and everyone deserves to be treated with respect whatever their station in life. I'm sorry if your experience with pilots has been less than that.
Lastly, we could all, indeed, buzz off - in fact quite a few have done just that - but some of us prefer to stay and try to improve our situation. Some pilots have invested a good many years in bmi and would like to see a return on their investment.
As I said earlier hopefully the managers will realise our resolve in this dispute and we can resume meaningful talks to avert a strike.
an interesting first post with many points worthy of discussion - thank you for sharing your concerns.
Firstly. let me say that the pilots have not rushed into this action. We have spent 18 months trying to resolve the situation but have finally come to an impasse because the company will not talk to us in any meaningful way.
Secondly, we are sensitive to the fact that the threat of industrial action brings uncertainty over the future and we hope the impasse with management can be resolved without recourse to strike action. However, it is not an idle gesture and management are becoming aware of our resolve.
I'm sorry that you think that the pilots as a group are not team players. From my experience I would like to think that we offered what support we could when the engineers and ground handlers at EMA were badly treated by the company. Had either of these groups decided to go to industrial action they could have relied on our understanding and support.
Companies by nature are heirarchical, there are people at the top, middle and bottom. Generally speaking pilots are neither at the very top nor at the bottom. Who you are is not defined by the job you do and everyone deserves to be treated with respect whatever their station in life. I'm sorry if your experience with pilots has been less than that.
Lastly, we could all, indeed, buzz off - in fact quite a few have done just that - but some of us prefer to stay and try to improve our situation. Some pilots have invested a good many years in bmi and would like to see a return on their investment.
As I said earlier hopefully the managers will realise our resolve in this dispute and we can resume meaningful talks to avert a strike.
Join Date: May 2006
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Flight Crew are not the only kingpins of an Airline, anybody who works in an operational section is a kingpin.If the checkin staff don't check in any pax you would not have a reason to fly. If the Engineers don't fix the aircraft you would not have an aircraft to fly etc etc. Even down to the guy who drives the s**t wagon, if he didn't do his job you soon wouldn't have any pax who wanted to fly on your aircraft. Lots of people are kingpins to an airlines operation.
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I worked as a pilot for Midland at Heathrow for a number of years. With out doubt the airline has a very odd company culture. Aside from the flying, I learned two things about life from working there. First, how to cut costs and second not to trust someone who smiles at you.
The airline has a black monkey sitting on its shoulder. You could cut the atmosphere in the Queens Building with a knife some mornings. This is the place where the Kegworth crew lived. I believe also the Trident Papa India pilots walked out from there.
I would suspect the very senior people in the company (whoever they are) are quite relaxed about the current industrial situation. They have no intention of allowing a strike and every intention of taking the situation to the wire when they will back down.
However, some of the pilots will be far from relaxed and some emotions will run very high. This company invented the term machiavelian. It knows just how to twist, maniplutate, connive and put people under huge pressure. They know the emotional handles to pull to get things done. QED the ploy of removing crewroom furniture. How humiliating can you get? My wife used to debrief me on the days flying. She could tell when the very senior person was adopting a hands on management style.
The oddest thing about Midland is that the culture is also very fickle. I had a family tragedy and, for an airline, they couldn't have been more helpful. When I most needed the pressure to be off it was.
My point is that the pilots can win this situation outright by ignoring the threats, staying calm and going to the wire. Maybe even stepping over it for a day.
I have worked for a number of airlines but Midland made it's mark on me and I was thoroughly glad to leave. However, I doubt you will find a more capable and sharp bunch of aviators in the business.
I wish everyone all the best in these trying times.
The airline has a black monkey sitting on its shoulder. You could cut the atmosphere in the Queens Building with a knife some mornings. This is the place where the Kegworth crew lived. I believe also the Trident Papa India pilots walked out from there.
I would suspect the very senior people in the company (whoever they are) are quite relaxed about the current industrial situation. They have no intention of allowing a strike and every intention of taking the situation to the wire when they will back down.
However, some of the pilots will be far from relaxed and some emotions will run very high. This company invented the term machiavelian. It knows just how to twist, maniplutate, connive and put people under huge pressure. They know the emotional handles to pull to get things done. QED the ploy of removing crewroom furniture. How humiliating can you get? My wife used to debrief me on the days flying. She could tell when the very senior person was adopting a hands on management style.
The oddest thing about Midland is that the culture is also very fickle. I had a family tragedy and, for an airline, they couldn't have been more helpful. When I most needed the pressure to be off it was.
My point is that the pilots can win this situation outright by ignoring the threats, staying calm and going to the wire. Maybe even stepping over it for a day.
I have worked for a number of airlines but Midland made it's mark on me and I was thoroughly glad to leave. However, I doubt you will find a more capable and sharp bunch of aviators in the business.
I wish everyone all the best in these trying times.
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I have been told that the major issue here is a lingering failure to resolve the 04/05 pay deal....ostensibly because the IR work to their own bureaucratic time scale.
It seems inconceivable to me that the IR can allow an un-level playing field to exist with respect to certain allowances and the tax-benefits allied to them. This is anti-competitive.
Conversely, it seems likely that if such a situation was contested, the company would stand a good chance of winning a case which argued for parity, with, for example, another LOCO airlines recompense paradigm.
Let us assume this to be the case.
I have been told that the cost of underwriting the difference between the old bmibaby allowances scheme and, for example, the Easyjet allowances scheme is ~£500K.
I have also been told that the cost of a one day strike is upwards of £2 million.
It seems to me, then, the way forward is clear.
Every other group in the company has had closure on their 04/05 pay deal except bmibaby pilots. They continue to lose money every day as a result.
The claim that this is about an unwillingness to accept 2.4% for 06/07 is management propaganda.
I trust those of you involved achieve your ambitions.
It seems inconceivable to me that the IR can allow an un-level playing field to exist with respect to certain allowances and the tax-benefits allied to them. This is anti-competitive.
Conversely, it seems likely that if such a situation was contested, the company would stand a good chance of winning a case which argued for parity, with, for example, another LOCO airlines recompense paradigm.
Let us assume this to be the case.
I have been told that the cost of underwriting the difference between the old bmibaby allowances scheme and, for example, the Easyjet allowances scheme is ~£500K.
I have also been told that the cost of a one day strike is upwards of £2 million.
It seems to me, then, the way forward is clear.
Every other group in the company has had closure on their 04/05 pay deal except bmibaby pilots. They continue to lose money every day as a result.
The claim that this is about an unwillingness to accept 2.4% for 06/07 is management propaganda.
I trust those of you involved achieve your ambitions.
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no deal
At regional the 04 /05 deal was never settled. 
It was put aside to make way for the 05/06 talks which as you know were sidelined and the 2.4% settlement imposed!
Since the indicative ballot management have offered to open talks about 06/07 early.
It was put aside to make way for the 05/06 talks which as you know were sidelined and the 2.4% settlement imposed!
Since the indicative ballot management have offered to open talks about 06/07 early.
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I agree with Caractacus,
this will ultimately come down to brinkmanship but I cannot see SMB standing idly by whilst NT allows Baby to have a CFIT. He's got a lot of dosh tied up in the Midland group and he won't let NT put that in jeopardy. The pilots at KLMC needed to take their company to the edge before they saw any meaningful dialogue - I forsee much the same for us.
Most pilots will probably have voted by now so whilst Donington Hall can go into spin overdrive the lots have already been cast. We just need to remain professional, continue to do our job and carefully weigh all future announcements from management.
this will ultimately come down to brinkmanship but I cannot see SMB standing idly by whilst NT allows Baby to have a CFIT. He's got a lot of dosh tied up in the Midland group and he won't let NT put that in jeopardy. The pilots at KLMC needed to take their company to the edge before they saw any meaningful dialogue - I forsee much the same for us.
Most pilots will probably have voted by now so whilst Donington Hall can go into spin overdrive the lots have already been cast. We just need to remain professional, continue to do our job and carefully weigh all future announcements from management.
Join Date: May 2002
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It's all about nerve. I've been in this situation many times before in another airline and the pilots always won out in the end but the management always took it to the eleventh hour. No backing down and they will cave-in. SMB will not let things go to the wall as he's worked too hard to get to where he is today, at his age he will not be into large risk. Keep your nerve people and good luck to the baby pilots as it seems they'll be first to go head to head with NT & Co.
short flights long nights
What is the culture like at BMI? Are Captains God?..or is it relaxed and open..or something in between?...Just interested
short flights long nights
Errrr... was a real question
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Pilots at bmi as some of the nicest I've come across , good operators no " god complex" just normal boys/girls giving there all for an employer who is take take take.
The trouble with the bmi management is everyone is expendable pilots are no exception.
Its' always been the company way no matter what department you work in.
Esp with the pilots , "You dont like it leave. Promote rhs to lhs and get a new cheap oxford cadet into the rhs." And there is always a long queue of willing victims.
Moo
The trouble with the bmi management is everyone is expendable pilots are no exception.
Its' always been the company way no matter what department you work in.
Esp with the pilots , "You dont like it leave. Promote rhs to lhs and get a new cheap oxford cadet into the rhs." And there is always a long queue of willing victims.
Moo
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I concur with 'The Moo'. A fine bunch of pilots and decent folk with it. It is completely bizarre that bmi cannot see the value of this professional capital.
Contrastingly the management are the most penny pinching small minded bunch you could imagine. They deserve absolutley no sympathy and I doubt they will get it.
Contrastingly the management are the most penny pinching small minded bunch you could imagine. They deserve absolutley no sympathy and I doubt they will get it.
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bmi mainline strike ballot
bmi mainline strike ballot papers being posted out tomorrow (Thurs 3rd).
bmi mainline covers all the airbus (A319,320,321,330) operation in and out of LHR, and in and out of MAN.
It also includes a lot of charter work being done by airbuses farmed out to the regions this summer for a variety of customers. (ex BHX, EMA, BHD,BFS, GLA,NCL etc).
bmi mainline covers all the airbus (A319,320,321,330) operation in and out of LHR, and in and out of MAN.
It also includes a lot of charter work being done by airbuses farmed out to the regions this summer for a variety of customers. (ex BHX, EMA, BHD,BFS, GLA,NCL etc).
Join Date: Mar 1999
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Originally Posted by anoxic
The best bit about bmi is the people you work with; the worst bit is the people you work for.
On an aside, what thoughts does anyone within the company (besides pilots)have of today's memo to all staff by NT?
The bit about risking your overtime/shift pay was a cheap shot, but expected unfortunately. You can expect more of the same propaganda.
If you want the real story, talk to the pilots at work and then decide.
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Originally Posted by upandoffmyside
It also includes a lot of charter work being done by airbuses farmed out to the regions this summer for a variety of customers. (ex BHX, EMA, BHD,BFS, GLA,NCL etc).
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Work to rule?
Before you consider going down that road the prime consideration has to be absolute solidarity and the backing of the union.
Otherwise it is easy for the management to "pick off" one or two of the leaders and subject them to a flawed disciplinary process.
This has a variety of benefits for the management: firstly, if they are sufficiently astute they will select a couple of victims who cannot possibly claim racial or sexual or health and safety in their defence. This limits absolutely the power of the Industrial Tribunal to make an award; in addition, even if the Tribunal orders the company to restore the victims to their jobs and to compensate their losses the law is toothless and the decison is not enforcable if the company decide to decline. Which of course they will.
Secondly, the victim, who is immediately suspended, and thereby isolated from his / her colleagues, can be selected for their role, or perceived role, in leading the dispute, thereby, hacking away at the leadership.
Since they will ultimately move through the disciplinary process, frustrated at every turn it discourages their colleagues, who see this, from "breaking ranks"; finally, when the process is exhausted they find themselves out of a job and the company has rid itself, very cheaply, of 2 or 3 "troublemakers".
So you see, in some cases, the Industrial Tribunal and Disciplinary process is actually just another tool the company can use which has absolutely no benefit whatsoever for the workforce.
Unite or perish.
Otherwise it is easy for the management to "pick off" one or two of the leaders and subject them to a flawed disciplinary process.
This has a variety of benefits for the management: firstly, if they are sufficiently astute they will select a couple of victims who cannot possibly claim racial or sexual or health and safety in their defence. This limits absolutely the power of the Industrial Tribunal to make an award; in addition, even if the Tribunal orders the company to restore the victims to their jobs and to compensate their losses the law is toothless and the decison is not enforcable if the company decide to decline. Which of course they will.
Secondly, the victim, who is immediately suspended, and thereby isolated from his / her colleagues, can be selected for their role, or perceived role, in leading the dispute, thereby, hacking away at the leadership.
Since they will ultimately move through the disciplinary process, frustrated at every turn it discourages their colleagues, who see this, from "breaking ranks"; finally, when the process is exhausted they find themselves out of a job and the company has rid itself, very cheaply, of 2 or 3 "troublemakers".
So you see, in some cases, the Industrial Tribunal and Disciplinary process is actually just another tool the company can use which has absolutely no benefit whatsoever for the workforce.
Unite or perish.
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From what I see, we are united, and when the rest of the non pilot staff read the recent memo from the CEO, I`m sure they will support us too.
Suddenly the management want to talk to them about 2007 pay. This would not have occured without the current situation, maybe they will decide consultation is a fairer way of treating their employees.
Regards to all the bmi staff on the `coal face`, you make a difference and deserve respect as well.
Suddenly the management want to talk to them about 2007 pay. This would not have occured without the current situation, maybe they will decide consultation is a fairer way of treating their employees.
Regards to all the bmi staff on the `coal face`, you make a difference and deserve respect as well.
Last edited by teamax; 2nd Aug 2006 at 14:46.