BA pilots 'prepared to strike'?
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This has been an inevitable review process. Even the most optimistic and naïve amongst us would have imagined that we could have come out of it unscathed. The decimation of this country’s once revered pensions industry by the present government is a shameful episode which has destroyed the futures of many hard working people, their families, and their long term care. They will, if justice prevails, suffer their fate at the hands of the British electorate next time around.
For BA however, this has been a much harder smash and grab that they surely intended at the outset. The cynical opportunism of the management has been breathtaking. They had hoped that a big headline grabbing bung, would dupe the staff into accepting what would have been a devastating blow to their deferred salary and rightful reward.
What they hadn’t bargained on though, was a renewed and refocused BALPA council, with new reps and considerable expertise in the field of finance and accountancy, which was able to foil each and every one of their shabby tricks, in some cases even before the latest company offer hit the doormat.
I reject the accusation, in this one instance only however, that the senior guys have stuffed the juniors yet again. Considering BA would not even discuss BARP at the outset, I think the BACC have made amends for the reprehensible behaviour of some of our colleagues in the past.
In summary, BALPA have redeemed themselves, and are clearly a force to be reckoned with. Just like many others in the UK, our dotage will be less lucrative than before thanks to Gordon Brown’s loot and sack of the pensions industry. However, the sickening prospect of sniggering suits walking away thumbing through wads of cash is not as certain as it once was.
For that in itself, we owe the Moose and his estimable band of merry men our considerable gratitude. Gentlemen, may you never have to buy another beer.
I’ll take on the opposition anyday. It’s my management I can’t beat!
For BA however, this has been a much harder smash and grab that they surely intended at the outset. The cynical opportunism of the management has been breathtaking. They had hoped that a big headline grabbing bung, would dupe the staff into accepting what would have been a devastating blow to their deferred salary and rightful reward.
What they hadn’t bargained on though, was a renewed and refocused BALPA council, with new reps and considerable expertise in the field of finance and accountancy, which was able to foil each and every one of their shabby tricks, in some cases even before the latest company offer hit the doormat.
I reject the accusation, in this one instance only however, that the senior guys have stuffed the juniors yet again. Considering BA would not even discuss BARP at the outset, I think the BACC have made amends for the reprehensible behaviour of some of our colleagues in the past.
In summary, BALPA have redeemed themselves, and are clearly a force to be reckoned with. Just like many others in the UK, our dotage will be less lucrative than before thanks to Gordon Brown’s loot and sack of the pensions industry. However, the sickening prospect of sniggering suits walking away thumbing through wads of cash is not as certain as it once was.
For that in itself, we owe the Moose and his estimable band of merry men our considerable gratitude. Gentlemen, may you never have to buy another beer.
I’ll take on the opposition anyday. It’s my management I can’t beat!
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6247897.stm
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Have a look at above link, give em an inch and they take a mile, will be interesting to see how long the watering down process is played out in BA, my thoughts are with all those loyal staff at WH Smith today.
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Have a look at above link, give em an inch and they take a mile, will be interesting to see how long the watering down process is played out in BA, my thoughts are with all those loyal staff at WH Smith today.
Controversial, moi?
Whoops x 3
You seem to know all the answers, so can you inform the readers of the historical level of pensionable pay increases, as a proportion of RPI, in BA?
BA BALPA members will know the answer and the reasoning behind much of the present proposals.
Anybody with a modicum of common sense will understand what has been achieved. Whoops x 3 would obviously liked to have seen a strike which would have possibly done more damage than good regarding the final pension settlement (again BA BALPA members will understand what I am alluding to).
I would love to know why an outsider such as Whoops x 3 is so cynically bitter over a deal which actually doesn't concern him one bit.
It is like me berating Ryanair pilots for working for the Ts & Cs they have.
You seem to know all the answers, so can you inform the readers of the historical level of pensionable pay increases, as a proportion of RPI, in BA?
BA BALPA members will know the answer and the reasoning behind much of the present proposals.
Anybody with a modicum of common sense will understand what has been achieved. Whoops x 3 would obviously liked to have seen a strike which would have possibly done more damage than good regarding the final pension settlement (again BA BALPA members will understand what I am alluding to).
I would love to know why an outsider such as Whoops x 3 is so cynically bitter over a deal which actually doesn't concern him one bit.
It is like me berating Ryanair pilots for working for the Ts & Cs they have.
Well, to keep what I have now I'll have to increase my contributions from 5.25% to over 17%.
Poke it!!
Poke it!!
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Controversial, moi?
Well, to keep what I have now I'll have to increase my contributions from 5.25% to over 17%.
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Quite easily. If you add up the extra percentages for still retiring at 60, maintaining 1/56ths instead of 1/60ths and keeping the inflation cap at 5% this amounts to over 17%. In fact as the rules stand at the moment you're limited to 15%!
Controversial, moi?
You are being disingenuous.
Give us your year of joining, age now and what accrual rate you have been paying for to date and then we will see if you are comparing like with like.
Give us your year of joining, age now and what accrual rate you have been paying for to date and then we will see if you are comparing like with like.
Last edited by M.Mouse; 12th Jan 2007 at 14:35. Reason: typo!
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BA pension problems
The fact is that I have done a lot more years in BA than you have...M. Mouse ....and now as a retiree looking at the BA working pilots situation I would be very upset if I was them and had the prospect of pensionable pay wasting away over the years that I had to go to retirement. The example case I produced earlier was just a 1.5 % gap average between RPI and wage inflation. Over my 30 plus years in BA it was always more than that.
Those conservative figures of a pay gap will HALVE pensionable pay with respect to normal earnings in 20 years in 30 years produce a 65% gap.
You may be able to maintain the calculator by paying a lot more in but it will be based on a fraction of your basic earnings when you retire.
Currently pensionable pay is 20% below basic earnings which is what it was when I retired with APS but even an APS pension would have been rubbish if the pensionable pay was 65% below basic earnings and the calculator was applied to that. A top salary captain would have a pension of £35000 on that basis if he retired today. Just about half what an APS captain retired on 2 years ago.
As I said before this deal is good for the senior guys with a lot of time in the old NAPS but it is very bad for those who are junior and will take the full brunt of the RPI cap on pensionable pay.
You can pretend that it is a good deal, and it is.... but only for the senior pilots. It is a shame that BA pilots T and Cs just continue to go down for the future pilots in the company.
As I said before it is BALPA history repeating itself.
Those conservative figures of a pay gap will HALVE pensionable pay with respect to normal earnings in 20 years in 30 years produce a 65% gap.
You may be able to maintain the calculator by paying a lot more in but it will be based on a fraction of your basic earnings when you retire.
Currently pensionable pay is 20% below basic earnings which is what it was when I retired with APS but even an APS pension would have been rubbish if the pensionable pay was 65% below basic earnings and the calculator was applied to that. A top salary captain would have a pension of £35000 on that basis if he retired today. Just about half what an APS captain retired on 2 years ago.
As I said before this deal is good for the senior guys with a lot of time in the old NAPS but it is very bad for those who are junior and will take the full brunt of the RPI cap on pensionable pay.
You can pretend that it is a good deal, and it is.... but only for the senior pilots. It is a shame that BA pilots T and Cs just continue to go down for the future pilots in the company.
As I said before it is BALPA history repeating itself.
PPRuNe Person
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Whoop. Hope you are enjoying your APS retirement. (I had you down as a current CSD or some Waterside person)
The new NAPS pensionable scale will be 95%LH.
Hope that helps.
The new NAPS pensionable scale will be 95%LH.
Hope that helps.
Controversial, moi?
The example case I produced earlier was just a 1.5 % gap average between RPI and wage inflation.
Currently pensionable pay is 20% below basic earnings
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BA pension problem
I take it then that current pensionable pay will rise by 15% under this deal.
which is an interesting development. It will have to since current pensionable pay is 20 % below basic pay.
which is an interesting development. It will have to since current pensionable pay is 20 % below basic pay.
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Yes WWW, you are correct. But only for future pension accruals. It offsets any inflationary problems for a while so is a good short-term solution.
I too had you down as a CSD or Waterworlder.
I too had you down as a CSD or Waterworlder.
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You may or may not be happy with the deal, but the simple thing is, the deal is agreed. You can either adapt to it and live with it, leave BA if you're realy not happy or continue to grumble about it untill your retire. Adapting seems the best option, the industry and life in general moves along, you have to adapt or just get dragged along kicking and screaming.
wrightbrothers
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Yes overstress, and how much have the managers' lifestyles been eroded since 911?
I don't see them in the office much when I finish my trips at 01:30 instead of the previous 22:45.
I know it's slightly off topic, but it further illustrates how much we have lost ground in the past five years.
"The world has changed, but some pilots' world has changed more equally than others". I'm sure I could corrupt the final paragraph of Orwel's wonderful novel too, but that might be a bit rude.
I don't see them in the office much when I finish my trips at 01:30 instead of the previous 22:45.
I know it's slightly off topic, but it further illustrates how much we have lost ground in the past five years.
"The world has changed, but some pilots' world has changed more equally than others". I'm sure I could corrupt the final paragraph of Orwel's wonderful novel too, but that might be a bit rude.
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WWW,
.
Your point about RPI and pay increases is the big fish, if said deal goes through, the longer any staff remain in NAPs, the longer the watering down effect has to erode pension value, it will hurt all staff, as you say, staff with long years remaining will save most money for the company.
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The other changes can be worked out now, but the above change is a company master card, infact some would call it the joker, the company will have teams of bean counters using these cards to hugh effect.
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The company have played a very very cool hand!!!
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Your point about RPI and pay increases is the big fish, if said deal goes through, the longer any staff remain in NAPs, the longer the watering down effect has to erode pension value, it will hurt all staff, as you say, staff with long years remaining will save most money for the company.
.
The other changes can be worked out now, but the above change is a company master card, infact some would call it the joker, the company will have teams of bean counters using these cards to hugh effect.
.
The company have played a very very cool hand!!!
The TUs have negotiated to a point which they feel is the best they can get without further mandate from the members.
Ballots will now take place. If the TU membership tell em to poke it then it's back to the table for another round of tea, biscuits and chat.
BTW my earlier post re;17% applies to groundstaff only.
Controversial, moi?
yachtno1
From the numbers you sent me privately for you to retire at 60 with the same accrual rate as you currently are buying your increase in contributions from the table I have in front of me shows an extra 3%.
I am genuinely puzzled how you reach 17%.
From the numbers you sent me privately for you to retire at 60 with the same accrual rate as you currently are buying your increase in contributions from the table I have in front of me shows an extra 3%.
I am genuinely puzzled how you reach 17%.