BA pilots 'prepared to strike'?
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HZ123, jees there you go again.................... Need to get out your airless windowless room in braincrank a bit more
Your view of both the pilots and their attitude towards the airline seems to be based upon the gossip you hear in the canteen
I can assure you that from where I sit the pilots are in no way shape or form treated any differently to any other front line BA employee. To sum up like most people on the front line (and not stuck in braincrank) we are treated with the utmost contempt by our managers, AMP/EG300 used as stick to beat people with and intimidate them , told to shut up and get on with it when we wait 50 mins for a bus after being on duty for 16 hours, consistently undermined by an overzealous management whom can't see beyond their next bonus.Oh and one General manager has taken it upon themselves to write to pilots if they are more than 2 mins late through security, does'nt matter if there was a complicated brief etc.
The pension issue may be the "straw that broke the camels back”
Your view of both the pilots and their attitude towards the airline seems to be based upon the gossip you hear in the canteen
I can assure you that from where I sit the pilots are in no way shape or form treated any differently to any other front line BA employee. To sum up like most people on the front line (and not stuck in braincrank) we are treated with the utmost contempt by our managers, AMP/EG300 used as stick to beat people with and intimidate them , told to shut up and get on with it when we wait 50 mins for a bus after being on duty for 16 hours, consistently undermined by an overzealous management whom can't see beyond their next bonus.Oh and one General manager has taken it upon themselves to write to pilots if they are more than 2 mins late through security, does'nt matter if there was a complicated brief etc.
The pension issue may be the "straw that broke the camels back”
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Originally Posted by BigBrutha
Beerdrinker,
It was the first step towards the much heralded,but never executed CSD-X programme which was to see THEM be the senior management grade onboard (dont laugh).
It was the first step towards the much heralded,but never executed CSD-X programme which was to see THEM be the senior management grade onboard (dont laugh).
Ah - happy days ...
Trouble is nowadays, even nostalgia's not what it used to be ......
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Da Dog
For £6 a month I have to be honest I don't expect wonders, but if I was paying what you are paying (somewhere between £30 - £70 per month I suspect) I'd want that to be put to better use than a load of stickers to make the place look untidy.
As for what have C.C. reps done at LGW?
Well for a start they negiotiated Cityflyer cabin crew to fit in with seniority and rank with EOG cabin crew. Unlike Cityflyer pilots who went to the bottom of the seniority list.
No 4 sector days in the middle of trips.
12 hours wrap around rest around days off.
Breakfast still included on all nightstops.
If you like I'll add to the list once the Singlefleet negotiations are finished.
I'm sure for all that money your reps are doing a sterling job for all that money YOUR paying, I'm wonder how many will join BA management just like RH did when this is all over.
And don't forget to reorder your stickers once the FM Team have wasted man hours scraping them off door handles and lift doors.
I hope you guys get what you want. I really do. As the group of people who have most to loose I'd be suprised if you didn't.
But as HZ123 quite rightly says, as managers yourselves shouldn't you be acting like managers, instead of a load of French lorry drivers.
For £6 a month I have to be honest I don't expect wonders, but if I was paying what you are paying (somewhere between £30 - £70 per month I suspect) I'd want that to be put to better use than a load of stickers to make the place look untidy.
As for what have C.C. reps done at LGW?
Well for a start they negiotiated Cityflyer cabin crew to fit in with seniority and rank with EOG cabin crew. Unlike Cityflyer pilots who went to the bottom of the seniority list.
No 4 sector days in the middle of trips.
12 hours wrap around rest around days off.
Breakfast still included on all nightstops.
If you like I'll add to the list once the Singlefleet negotiations are finished.
I'm sure for all that money your reps are doing a sterling job for all that money YOUR paying, I'm wonder how many will join BA management just like RH did when this is all over.
And don't forget to reorder your stickers once the FM Team have wasted man hours scraping them off door handles and lift doors.
I hope you guys get what you want. I really do. As the group of people who have most to loose I'd be suprised if you didn't.
But as HZ123 quite rightly says, as managers yourselves shouldn't you be acting like managers, instead of a load of French lorry drivers.
But as HZ123 quite rightly says, as managers yourselves shouldn't you be acting like managers, instead of a load of French lorry drivers.
Couldonlyaffordafiver
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Well for a start they negiotiated Cityflyer cabin crew to fit in with seniority and rank with EOG cabin crew. Unlike Cityflyer pilots who went to the bottom of the seniority list.
Having said that, BALPA negotiated an agreement to allow a number of Cityflyer captains to transfer to the 737 as captains even though their seniority was nowhere near enough. The only condition being that if they bid to leave the fleet, they revert to the same deal as everyone else.
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WLITS lets face it if you’re best argument is to bring the RH debacles into the debate then you've lost already. (By the way I did very well out of that deal)
Let’s face it and with no disrespect to you or anyone at LGW, you are the worst paid crew within BA doing the hardest work. EJ crew work less and earn more, if this is CC89 and BASSA at their best then I don't hold out much hope for midfleet deal, I predict you will be the cheapest long haul crew in the UK, but we will just have to wait and see. You forget LGW still not in the NSP despite that being on the agenda for the last 8 years.
The stickers, well it’s just a bit of fun, and from what I hear from the horse’s mouth something that has got the management in a right lather. Even the lanyards have met with a notice explaining to pilots that they are NOT uniform standards. Why can't people see the "sticker" campaign for what it is? I thought perhaps you were brighter than that.
You bought up the fact we were managers, I see where you come from however, from where I sit we are "managers" when it suits the company (work into discretion turn up early to brief the cabin crew) and we are not "managers" when it doesn’t (managers bonus), perhaps when the sloppy shoulders all I worry about is my budget brigade treat pilots like the managers they pretend we are then we might stop the sticker campaigned. Until then vote me in to be a french lorry driver.
Let’s face it and with no disrespect to you or anyone at LGW, you are the worst paid crew within BA doing the hardest work. EJ crew work less and earn more, if this is CC89 and BASSA at their best then I don't hold out much hope for midfleet deal, I predict you will be the cheapest long haul crew in the UK, but we will just have to wait and see. You forget LGW still not in the NSP despite that being on the agenda for the last 8 years.
The stickers, well it’s just a bit of fun, and from what I hear from the horse’s mouth something that has got the management in a right lather. Even the lanyards have met with a notice explaining to pilots that they are NOT uniform standards. Why can't people see the "sticker" campaign for what it is? I thought perhaps you were brighter than that.
You bought up the fact we were managers, I see where you come from however, from where I sit we are "managers" when it suits the company (work into discretion turn up early to brief the cabin crew) and we are not "managers" when it doesn’t (managers bonus), perhaps when the sloppy shoulders all I worry about is my budget brigade treat pilots like the managers they pretend we are then we might stop the sticker campaigned. Until then vote me in to be a french lorry driver.
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At least you admit it was a shambles.
Yeah we work hard for the least pay in the company, but still it's better than anyone else in the UK when you factor in all the T&C's. You don't see many of our crew leaving to join EZ do you? They may take home a litttle more sometimes, but I assure you 6 sectors days aren't my cup of tea.
You can predict all you want as well but in a few days we'll all see. It would be diffeicult to be any worse than the T&C's and pay at Virgin.
You defend your stickers all you want, if all you've got is "they're just a bit of fun" and then attack me personally.....then you've lost the argument already (to coin a phrase) .
Yeah we work hard for the least pay in the company, but still it's better than anyone else in the UK when you factor in all the T&C's. You don't see many of our crew leaving to join EZ do you? They may take home a litttle more sometimes, but I assure you 6 sectors days aren't my cup of tea.
You can predict all you want as well but in a few days we'll all see. It would be diffeicult to be any worse than the T&C's and pay at Virgin.
You defend your stickers all you want, if all you've got is "they're just a bit of fun" and then attack me personally.....then you've lost the argument already (to coin a phrase)
.
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WLITS, sorry did the lead you to believe I was getting personal? There was a clue in the icons 
I'm sorry you feel so strongly about the stickers, but then I assumed you had more to worry about in life, oh I forgot it was the impending imposition of the worst long haul pay in the UK
lead you to believe I was getting personal? There was a clue in the icons I'm sorry you feel so strongly about the stickers, but then I assumed you had more to worry about in life, oh I forgot it was the impending imposition of the worst long haul pay in the UK
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Walter flt lt since I'm bored I'll indulge
It seems to me that when people don't like what they hear, or the fact that the truth may hurt, they bring out the "CRM" issue, CRM FYI is about working effectivley together, its not about treading around on egg shells or being touchy feely towards one another
Just as an aside I know WLITS and I suspect he knows me, so do me a favour and wind your whingeing kneck in
It seems to me that when people don't like what they hear, or the fact that the truth may hurt, they bring out the "CRM" issue, CRM FYI is about working effectivley together, its not about treading around on egg shells or being touchy feely towards one another
Just as an aside I know WLITS and I suspect he knows me, so do me a favour and wind your whingeing kneck in
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More to worry about? Not really.
The way you guys are talking on here it would appear it is you who have more to worry about.
My problem with the stickers is they belong on flight bags, folders, car windows. Not on aircraft, the jetty or anywhere else that makes us all like a bunch of childish millitants. But french lorry drivers will be french lorry drivers I guess .
As for the lowest paid longhaul in the UK, we'll wait and see. But as you and your collegues like to bang on about so much the only thing keeping you at BA is the pension, otherwise you'd all be knocking on Dick Pickles door or flying out to the gulf quicker than you can say "I love Wille Walsh". My point being that monthly pay is not everything, it's also T&C's, and quality of life.
I'd still bet we'd be better paid than Virgin, or First Choice.
P.S. Flt lt W Mitty.
Thanks for the support but we're only playing here. We know each other and it's nothing we wouldn't say to each other over a cold beer. That's the great thing about EFLGW despite everything we're a little family and we all get along and have a blast.
Flying is fun at the end of the day and long may it stay that way eh Dog?
Still friends?
The way you guys are talking on here it would appear it is you who have more to worry about.
My problem with the stickers is they belong on flight bags, folders, car windows. Not on aircraft, the jetty or anywhere else that makes us all like a bunch of childish millitants. But french lorry drivers will be french lorry drivers I guess
.As for the lowest paid longhaul in the UK, we'll wait and see. But as you and your collegues like to bang on about so much the only thing keeping you at BA is the pension, otherwise you'd all be knocking on Dick Pickles door or flying out to the gulf quicker than you can say "I love Wille Walsh". My point being that monthly pay is not everything, it's also T&C's, and quality of life.
I'd still bet we'd be better paid than Virgin, or First Choice.
P.S. Flt lt W Mitty.
Thanks for the support but we're only playing here. We know each other and it's nothing we wouldn't say to each other over a cold beer. That's the great thing about EFLGW despite everything we're a little family and we all get along and have a blast.
Flying is fun at the end of the day and long may it stay that way eh Dog?
Still friends?
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Methinks Barnstormer et al are being rather optimistic in believing that if BA fails, BA2 will quickly rise from the ashes and employ everyone back in their old positions.
Firstly the slots will be up for purchase to the highest bidder:
If you are lucky, Virgin and other companies will buy many of the slots from the receivers and ex BA pilots will be able to find work at the bottom of their seniority lists.
If you are unlucky, the Americans will raise the cash and operate the slots with N registered aircraft for which you will not be qualified by licence or Nationality.
Secondly, if the receivers manage to continue the operation whilst they restructure, this will be on a much smaller scale and cost basis that the present operation. It won't be a take-over where your terms and conditions are protected.
Perhaps half a loaf....?
Firstly the slots will be up for purchase to the highest bidder:
If you are lucky, Virgin and other companies will buy many of the slots from the receivers and ex BA pilots will be able to find work at the bottom of their seniority lists.
If you are unlucky, the Americans will raise the cash and operate the slots with N registered aircraft for which you will not be qualified by licence or Nationality.
Secondly, if the receivers manage to continue the operation whilst they restructure, this will be on a much smaller scale and cost basis that the present operation. It won't be a take-over where your terms and conditions are protected.
Perhaps half a loaf....?
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Get BALPA to push for removal of senority in all UK companies and encourage free movement of pilots between companies. If your company is shafting you then you can move to a company with better T's and C's. This would lead to companies having to compete more for there workforce.
I am in buisness aviation and our company after talking up tough attitudes to the pilots is now talking about improvements to conditions as 75% of us are job hunting.
Also an advert in pilot each month explaining the cost of undertaking a career in aviation and the current returns might restrict the numbers coming in and allow market forces to push up T's and C's.
I hope it goes well for you at BA. It would be nice if pilots in the UK could show some unity but it must work both ways and when you get to the top try and look after those lower down the ladder.
I am in buisness aviation and our company after talking up tough attitudes to the pilots is now talking about improvements to conditions as 75% of us are job hunting.
Also an advert in pilot each month explaining the cost of undertaking a career in aviation and the current returns might restrict the numbers coming in and allow market forces to push up T's and C's.
I hope it goes well for you at BA. It would be nice if pilots in the UK could show some unity but it must work both ways and when you get to the top try and look after those lower down the ladder.
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As jindabyne points out in an earlier thread, one other major British plc which faced an equally large pension problem has found a solution that is acceptable to both staff and Company alike.
Obviously not all situations are the same, but this problem was resolved with an interesting package which included a large injection of both cash and property assets plus other financial guarantees from the Company.
The final salary scheme is preserved for all current members - new starters now have a different scheme. Employees recognised a need to work longer (talking about months not years) to retain final salary benefits, but are not being asked for increased contributions.
Do not work for BA but am regular SLF on both long and short haul sectors. Clear to me, when talking to cc during flights, that the number one concern for many is pension. There is obviously no easy answer, but perhaps your TU reps could look to AMICUS, which negotiated the deal mentioned above, for some support and assistance. On the face of it at least, there would seem to be a number of similarities between BA and the other British aerospace (and defence) company.
Good luck to all.
Obviously not all situations are the same, but this problem was resolved with an interesting package which included a large injection of both cash and property assets plus other financial guarantees from the Company.
The final salary scheme is preserved for all current members - new starters now have a different scheme. Employees recognised a need to work longer (talking about months not years) to retain final salary benefits, but are not being asked for increased contributions.
Do not work for BA but am regular SLF on both long and short haul sectors. Clear to me, when talking to cc during flights, that the number one concern for many is pension. There is obviously no easy answer, but perhaps your TU reps could look to AMICUS, which negotiated the deal mentioned above, for some support and assistance. On the face of it at least, there would seem to be a number of similarities between BA and the other British aerospace (and defence) company.
Good luck to all.
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Maxy101 - There are not many jobs where you have Sim. checks, health checks that we have to go through just to keep up our 'Hobby'. To me its my chosen livelihood and it took me many years to get into the seat. Yes, some FC are their own worst enemy, but you'll find examples in all walks of life. T & C's have been eroded away and how far does it have to fall before we're paid 'hobby' salaries.
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Exactly Darkstar....unfortunately listening to some of my colleagues, you would think that they had another means of support and weren't paying their bills from their BA salary. The Americans have got it right when they say that the management are "taking food from the mouths of my children". We need to stop pussy footing around and acting like gentlemen or "professionals" because around the negotiating table with BA it doesn't count for anything. Hence BASSA and the TGWU have historically got better deals because the company know that it will cost them more money than they would save if they push them too far. BALPA will bend over backwards to help the company, though I do detect a glimmer of hope judging by recent BALPA comms. Perhaps they're starting to listen to the membership?
Paxing All Over The World
Pensions reprimand for government
The government has been told to compensate 85,000 people who have lost all or part of their company pensions.
The Parliamentary Ombudsman, Ann Abraham, made the ruling after finding the Department for Work & Pensions (DWP) guilty of maladministration. She said official guidance on company pension schemes had been "inaccurate, incomplete, unclear and inconsistent".
The government has rejected the report, saying it cannot be held responsible for corporate pension schemes.
Full story: BBC News So the subject is very much in the headlines and this should mean that the general public are already aware of the problem in general.
The government has been told to compensate 85,000 people who have lost all or part of their company pensions.
The Parliamentary Ombudsman, Ann Abraham, made the ruling after finding the Department for Work & Pensions (DWP) guilty of maladministration. She said official guidance on company pension schemes had been "inaccurate, incomplete, unclear and inconsistent".
The government has rejected the report, saying it cannot be held responsible for corporate pension schemes.
Full story: BBC News So the subject is very much in the headlines and this should mean that the general public are already aware of the problem in general.
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Paxboy. I fear on this subject you are wrong. My interpretation of what was said is that the government is sorry that it happened but effectively Joe Public Pensions can get lost.