South Asia and the Far East News and views on the fast growing and changing aviation scene on the planet.

Air Japan (AJX) B767

Old 15th Aug 2013, 21:52
  #1661 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: London
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Any recent info/changes

Hi,

I have found this topic really interesting and very informative

I went through the entire 80 odd pages yesterday and found it really useful.

I should be on an assessment next month or if not then the one after.

Was just curious if there was any recent info about course dates if your successful etc, how many courses are they looking to run for the rest of this year and 2014?

Is it still the case with FOs that you will not have a chance of even assessment for command until the end of your first 5 year contract, don't get me wrong, this is still an exceptionally quick time to have a chance of being assessed for a wide body command but just curious all the same.

I did read an earlier post that some didn't get through because it literally was there first attempt at any sort of command, of course having command time previously is good but will it be held against you if you have not been a commander previously?

Again with regards to earlier posts, people have states that they passed everything only to be told later on that they didn't score as high as other people that also passed so therefore were binned, if it is the case that the sim is 90% of the score, is it really down to nailing and doing the sim as perfect as you can?

Any info would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance
Steve
pi3lot_1982 is offline  
Old 16th Aug 2013, 08:46
  #1662 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: 日本
Posts: 456
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Was just curious if there was any recent info about course dates if your successful etc, how many courses are they looking to run for the rest of this year and 2014?Courses are ongoing and projected to continue that way. They don't have enough pilots and there are still some leaving (Americans in the main) to go back to furloughed jobs. There has been no indication that they are going to reduce throughput. At the moment it's 4 per course and, willing to be corrected, I believe it's 4 courses per year. There's some jiggerypokery going on with Qantas sims and, perhaps in the future Asiana sims, but I don't really know how this is affecting the number of pilots going through.

Is it still the case with FOs that you will not have a chance of even assessment for command until the end of your first 5 year contract, don't get me wrong, this is still an exceptionally quick time to have a chance of being assessed for a wide body command but just curious all the same. I don't know where it's been written that there's no chance < 5 years but that's not the case. As it stands at the moment, AJX will begin your command assessment after about 3.5 years. You'll fly with Japanese management pilots and then they throw bones in the air to see who gets to go through. Nobody can fathom how else they do their assessments, so it's no good asking. Once they've decided you're on a command course you are then in the lap of the sim availability gods. There's a lot of training going on at the moment so the sims are full and, consequently, the command 'training' sims get backed up. This may be the reason for a suggestion that it can take up to 5 years to actually get in the left seat but I have no actual data to support this hypothesis. Having done the sim you then get to fly a bunch of trips with non-Japanese and Japanese trainers and, provided everything goes okay, you'll then fly a command check with a JCAB checker on the jumpseat. When the sims have been normally available it has meant guys have got their commands within 4 years of joining.

I did read an earlier post that some didn't get through because it literally was there first attempt at any sort of command, of course having command time previously is good but will it be held against you if you have not been a commander previously?For many it's not their first command but that's not true for everyone. Of the most recent upgrades most of them were first-timers. To the Japanese it's all about book study and if you can do loads of that and regurgitate irrelevant crap then you'll do well on your upgrade course. Being able to think laterally, use your initiative or employ snake-like cunning in influencing others does not play a part in the Japanese thinking. Just buy a mass of different coloured highlighters and you can get through with no previous command experience

Again with regards to earlier posts, people have states that they passed everything only to be told later on that they didn't score as high as other people that also passed so therefore were binned, if it is the case that the sim is 90% of the score, is it really down to nailing and doing the sim as perfect as you can? You won't know how well you've done and nobody gets any feedback. Clearly they're going to take the people they think are most suitable and you'll never know how they judge that. It is true they place significant emphasis on the simulator and it's not the Japanese way to 'wing' it, so it's very important that you study the simulator profile and do it exactly the way they want it flown. It doesn't matter if your airline does it a better way, just abide by their profile and strive for perfection. The Japanese love minutiae, so it doesn't matter if you're a born flyer and can make the machine sing if the next guy in line flies in a boring manner but does everything to the knot....he's the one who'll get the job. The interview is really quite a relaxed affair and is more of a chat about you and how you'll cope with a commuting contract and working in Japan. I can't advise on the technical test because it wasn't in place when I joined. Study the sim profile!!!
Fratemate is offline  
Old 16th Aug 2013, 11:01
  #1663 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 215
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The upgrade evaluation is actually now running at the 4 to 4 1/2 year mark. I have been here 3 1/2 and there is still one class ahead of me to be evaluated yet. So I am thinking upgrade pretty close to the 4 1/2 year point is closest now days.
jrmyl is offline  
Old 16th Aug 2013, 23:44
  #1664 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 81
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Just Adding to Fratemate's Reply.

The next few courses have 6 on each course. Current plan is 6 courses per year with 8, but they haven't got 8 yet to fill a course yet.

Attitude is EVERYTHING in Japan and is more important than flying skills or even knowledge. If they consider your attitude is excellent then most likely you will get through an upgrade course.

One tip flying the sim on an interview: Don't try and be efficient. I'm not sure what is in the sim notes now but do exactly as it says. For example on a VOR DME approach don't try and fly a constant glide path on descent. If there are check altitudes on the approach then descend to the altitudes, level off, then descend again. Goes against the grain but that is what they want to see.
Absolutely is offline  
Old 17th Aug 2013, 01:10
  #1665 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
B767 ANA or JP Express

Great feedback guys, thanks a lot. Hoping for an evaluation late in September. Why are they having such a hard time finding applicants to fill the classes? This seems like a great contract/opportunity and I'm guessing there are plenty of qualified candidates, so it must be ultra high standards. Am I correct?
atccfi is offline  
Old 17th Aug 2013, 03:17
  #1666 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 81
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
There's a few reasons: Long 8 months of training, B767 is an old type that is not on too many pilots must fly list any more, no assistance to live in Japan if you wanted to and pay rates not attractive enough for all of the above plus long time away from family.
Also, as you alluded to, a high failure rate at interviews.
Absolutely is offline  
Old 17th Aug 2013, 03:56
  #1667 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: australia
Posts: 916
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
...."ultra high standards."

Until you come here and see it for yourself you would not believe how far off the mark that statement is.

If you think you're coming to anything approximating Western aviation thinking you'll be sadly disappointed, the thinking is the same as for the society in general:
- rote learning
- not questioning statements from superiors or bureaucrats, blind acceptance
- respect for managment based on age only, not age AND ability
- operating in a robotic/rote fashion.

There's more of course however as a small example: CRM is defined as the ability to sit down and on a piece of paper re-construct the "graph" of what makes up CRM, if you can do that then you obviously HAVE CRM.

The ability to take the theory (rote) and try to make it work in the cockpit is a very, very secondary consideration.

Being generous: they think and do things....differently, your success or otherwise will be based on your ability to blindly accept what they say, offer respect to age regardless of ability and operate aircraft in a way that is (also being generous) extremely conservative.
galdian is offline  
Old 17th Aug 2013, 05:50
  #1668 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 1,050
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Hi. Good stuff guys.

Please can you help with the following:
1. Initial ground school course for a rated but incurrent guy
2. Is there any sort of joining bond?
3. How do you get round the tax issue? Do you have to prove you have paid your tax somewhere?

Thanks
Pin Head is offline  
Old 17th Aug 2013, 07:15
  #1669 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: 日本
Posts: 456
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
CRM is defined as the ability to sit down and on a piece of paper re-construct the "graph" of what makes up CRM, if you can do that then you obviously HAVE CRM


1. Initial ground school course for a rated but incurrent guy Leaving aside the awful made-up word, 'incurrent', you'll find training will take between 6-7 months for a type rated pilot. You'll carry out the initial training with your classmates and then, assuming there's another type rated pilot for you to team up with, you'll do fewer sim sessions, no type rating test and progress straight to the ATPL check. Following this you'll get about 10 days at home and then return to Japan to begin part two of the training, OJT, OEU, line training, whatever you want to call it. Obviously the captains' OJT takes longer than FOs. Allow 7 months from day one to getting on line as an FO and you won't be too far out
2. Is there any sort of joining bond? No
3. How do you get round the tax issue? Do you have to prove you have paid your tax somewhere?The contract is gross pay. It's up to you to figure out what tax is paid depending on what country you live in/come from.Oz rules are different to US rules are different to UK rules but, at the end of the day, the Japanese do not pay tax on your behalf on this contract, so you have to do that for yourself.
Fratemate is offline  
Old 18th Aug 2013, 19:49
  #1670 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Over the Pacific mostly
Posts: 1,043
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
atccfi
B767 ANA or JP Express
Great feedback guys, thanks a lot. Hoping for an evaluation late in September. Why are they having such a hard time finding applicants to fill the classes? This seems like a great contract/opportunity and I'm guessing there are plenty of qualified candidates, so it must be ultra high standards. Am I correct?
The simple truth is that none of us really knows what criteria they use for hiring we all have stories about people that we recommended, solid individuals with good credentials and experience that for some reason didn't get hired, many even pass the interview and still didn't get a class date. A lot of people apply as you pointed out, many of them have experience well beyond the hiring minimums and don't even get a reply! I have to say that most of the time they get it right but there have been a few pilots hired here that are better suited for lighthouse duty and only morse code as a means of communication..! We have suggested many times to include the foreign pilots in the interview process since we can pickup troubling signs in western individuals better than they can, but....! There isn't a shortage of qualified applicants, just not that many that fit into whatever parameters they are looking for.
The Dominican is offline  
Old 18th Aug 2013, 20:20
  #1671 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: London
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
ASI in sim

Does the 767 sim that they use for the screening have a speed tape on the EADI or is the sole reference the round dial ASI?
pi3lot_1982 is offline  
Old 18th Aug 2013, 23:00
  #1672 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Over the Pacific mostly
Posts: 1,043
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
pi3lot_1982
ASI in sim
Does the 767 sim that they use for the screening have a speed tape on the EADI or is the sole reference the round dial ASI?
If your assessment during the interview is done here in Japan then no! It is only the steam gage. For what I hear they are conducting interviews in other places as well so in that case, I don't really know.
The Dominican is offline  
Old 19th Aug 2013, 04:47
  #1673 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Sky
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I most likely have an upcoming screening in Sept. Where do candidates typically stay for hotels?
Aerodmb is offline  
Old 19th Aug 2013, 08:47
  #1674 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: 日本
Posts: 456
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Where do candidates typically stay for hotels?

AJX will provide you with a hotel while you're in Japan. It used to be located where the, now, Toyoko Inn is but I don't know how up-to-date that is. Basically it's about at 15-20 minute walk from the hotel to the ANA Training Centre in Haneda.

If you're bored after the assessment then most of the hotel dwellers, as opposed to apartment dwellers, live in the Excel Hotel in Narita. Make your way there and you're bound to find someone who'll go for a beer with you.

Last edited by Fratemate; 19th Aug 2013 at 08:48.
Fratemate is offline  
Old 19th Aug 2013, 19:42
  #1675 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Sky
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Great! Thanks for the response.
Aerodmb is offline  
Old 19th Aug 2013, 20:10
  #1676 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: South, near the end of the world.
Age: 50
Posts: 285
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Question

Guys, are there any South American pilot at ANA or JP Express???
cosmiccomet is offline  
Old 19th Aug 2013, 20:41
  #1677 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Over the Pacific mostly
Posts: 1,043
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Yes, there are a few of us out here! (Latinos I mean) kind to think of it, we have people from all over, it is the United Nations

BTW: Speaking of united, that company doesn't exist anymore, it is all Air Japan (AJX) now.
The Dominican is offline  
Old 20th Aug 2013, 02:38
  #1678 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: 66 NORTH
Posts: 112
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Hi guys,

I could not but notice that some of the 767's are over 20 years old. Does Air Japan or ANA has any plans to renew their fleet??

What is your feeling on this? you guys think they will keep bringing 767's or will get some different metals?

regards.
atila_101 is offline  
Old 20th Aug 2013, 05:51
  #1679 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 1998
Location: between 20 & 30 000'
Posts: 80
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Ana has about 58 767's now. A mix of -300's. -300ER's(25 of them), freighter (2 +1 on order?)and BCF (converted pax to freighter)(8 or 9)

AJX operates the -300ER for pax ops and the freighter/BCF for freight ops.

The oldest ER is about 10 years old, the youngest around 1 year. The oldest Freighter about 10 years old. The BCF's between 24 and 16 years old since delivery as pax aircraft, all converted in the past 8 years or so.

The -300's, used for domestic operation by ANA are old and will probably be retired first. AJX pilots cannot fly domestic ops in Japan.

No official info is available but it would appear there are no more orders for new 767's, the 787 is to replace them. The pax aircraft have a few years in them still and the freighters, well who knows? Maybe forever!

I t seems as if ANA prefer to retire aircraft after about 15 years service, so we may see some retirement s soon, though the 787 delay has messed with that.

Rumours are plenty about AJX moving to another type but I would base my plans on being on the 767 for a long time in AJX. Any change would be a bouns.
gtseraf is offline  
Old 20th Aug 2013, 15:07
  #1680 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
B767 ANA or JP Express

Hello all,
Thanks again for great info. A couple quick questions.
1) I'll be on the Crew contract (If I make it) and was wondering if there is any sort of soft or hidden money. Night pay etc.
2) I saw most guys are flying under 60 hours, but is there a threshold? Meaning, do you get paid more if you fly more than a certain amount?
3) Any Portuguese guys flying for AJX on the contract?
4) is there any major advantage to going with Parc or Crew for a European?
Thank you!

Last edited by atccfi; 20th Aug 2013 at 15:08.
atccfi is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.