Air Japan (AJX) B767
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One more thing, the company has assigned a few captains to be training liaisons, but for some reason some of the guys don't really use this asset at their disposal and instead try to figure the training culture on their own, these guys are there to help you with more than just the technical aspect of it all, take advantage of this asset at your disposal
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Not to be the bearer of bad news or negative commentor about this place, but there is a reason why a bunch of guys have left/will leave for Skymark and other Asian carriers recently and in the very, very near future. Like I said before, this place may suit some guys still, but the majority of the pilots are discontent with this place and seriously looking at other places (even if it's for less pay). If you don't have any other place to go or have a job where you can get an extended leave of absence, stay away. Really. And if you choose to come here still, good luck.
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737lpa wrote...
"I can only think that maybe some of you who are inside think that by not getting people to apply, management would struggle somewhat and improve terms, which I can sympathize with, although everyone knows that they will keep coming."
Yes 737!!!!! That is EXACTLY the point we are all trying to make here! Last summer things reached a fever pitch. Only 50% of classes were being filled, many were cancelled. Applicants dried up and those who did apply were mediocre at best. This applied pressure to the company, created leverage and guess what? Now we have 2 extra days at home with our families, a slight improvement in per diem and - wait for it.............FREE laundry. Management did what they could to appease the masses. As usual, it was a day late and a dollar short and only served as an insult to what most of us wanted to see in improvements. Nevertheless, it was better than what we had before, if only incrementally.
The "kink in the armor" here is that the company STILL gets applicants like you who think this place will be far better that where you are coming from. You won't be able to appreciate what I am about to say until about 3 months into your time here but you WILL ask yourself "Why did I come here?" It will then become self evident why so many are leaving this place like rats on a sinking ship. We were all like you at one point, curious as to "How bad can things REALLY be over there?" There is NO ONE, I repeat, NO ONE I have flown with recently who isn't looking at leaving here. From the most senior of Captains to the most junior FO's.
Listen to what most are telling you here. Those I have kept in touch with who have left this place have no regrets about doing so and are much happier where they've landed (pardon the pun.) This includes guys who have left for jobs paying as much as 50% less but they have their lives, health and sanity back!
Those who are writing about how its "Not so bad here" and "It is what you make of it," are suffering from what is known as Stockholm Syndrome. Just remember the phrase MISERY LOVES COMPANY and you will be just as "Happy" as we all are here.
-DEX
"I can only think that maybe some of you who are inside think that by not getting people to apply, management would struggle somewhat and improve terms, which I can sympathize with, although everyone knows that they will keep coming."
Yes 737!!!!! That is EXACTLY the point we are all trying to make here! Last summer things reached a fever pitch. Only 50% of classes were being filled, many were cancelled. Applicants dried up and those who did apply were mediocre at best. This applied pressure to the company, created leverage and guess what? Now we have 2 extra days at home with our families, a slight improvement in per diem and - wait for it.............FREE laundry. Management did what they could to appease the masses. As usual, it was a day late and a dollar short and only served as an insult to what most of us wanted to see in improvements. Nevertheless, it was better than what we had before, if only incrementally.
The "kink in the armor" here is that the company STILL gets applicants like you who think this place will be far better that where you are coming from. You won't be able to appreciate what I am about to say until about 3 months into your time here but you WILL ask yourself "Why did I come here?" It will then become self evident why so many are leaving this place like rats on a sinking ship. We were all like you at one point, curious as to "How bad can things REALLY be over there?" There is NO ONE, I repeat, NO ONE I have flown with recently who isn't looking at leaving here. From the most senior of Captains to the most junior FO's.
Listen to what most are telling you here. Those I have kept in touch with who have left this place have no regrets about doing so and are much happier where they've landed (pardon the pun.) This includes guys who have left for jobs paying as much as 50% less but they have their lives, health and sanity back!
Those who are writing about how its "Not so bad here" and "It is what you make of it," are suffering from what is known as Stockholm Syndrome. Just remember the phrase MISERY LOVES COMPANY and you will be just as "Happy" as we all are here.
-DEX
Last edited by PoinDextir; 20th Feb 2012 at 04:19.
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PoinDextir,
In the contract arena is not strange to see attrition levels pick up on every single airline on a rotating cycle. It happens in AJX, in RYR, in the sandpit and everywhere you look at. The airlines where most of your excolleagues from AJX are leaving to, guess what, they are probably infested with pilots who are looking at the AJX gig, who would give an arm and a leg to be invited to Tokyo for an assesment, and who surely don't understand why anyone would come to their turf coming from Japan. "You're out of your mind leaving that job in Tokyo, man!", some of your colleagues will be told.
Pilots are whiners. I know because I'm a whiner myself. We just can't get content enough. I understand that any commuting job has always a time limit to it because regardless of how good the gig might be, people will always try to go back home even to worse conditions and not spend over half of their lives on the other side of the planet. But if you accept the fact that you are going to commute, and your family supports you on that decision, there is no doubt that AJX is one of the best contracts out there, if not the best, and that's even with the after-the-merger regressions. And it is good just because it's better than the other available contracts out there, plain and simple. The money is better, the business class commute is better , the amount of days off is better, the fleet is better, and the base (Tokyo) is much better than so many other third world country where you most likely will end up making less money, flying more hours, with less days off, and a worse commute home.
So you've had your conditions worsened. Welcome to the real world of contracting aviation. And be careful what you wish for, because your wishes may become true. I see one of the biggest issues that are being mentioned here is fatigue. Now I fly 900 hours a year of short haul flying and wake up at 3:45 AM for 5 days in a row to fly with no food or water provided for 11 and change hour duties and with the fuel, on-time performance and operational pressures of the king of LCC's, not to mention that I make much less than AJX's CPTs do and that I fly 5 or 6 times their number of sectors, with all those beautiful turnarounds, CTOT's, unhhapy PAX who just got slammed at the gate for the size of their luggage, and surrounded by cabin crew and ground staff who are lucky to make a grand on their best month. Tell me about your fatigue issues and give me more details on your rostering complaints and we can discuss them, but be prepared to have a lasting discussion because fatigue is an issue in most contracting jobs out there. Not being unionized and being expats, leaves us all contractors exposed to rostering abuses, change of conditions, dishonouring of contracting clauses, and an endless list of undesirable trends that, I'm afraid, you will find in your next gig unless you're being recalled to your lovely major or your uncle owns a learjet.
I frankly don't think that is fair to say that experienced drivers who actually like AJX (or better said don't dislike it that much so as to leave for another job), are just suffering of Stockholm syndrome. IMHO, they have simply not found a better option. And guess what, nowdays they're not going to, simply because there aren't any. And I have done my shopping around, just like anybody else in the contracting bubble.
I realize that being succesful for this job is harder than the average, and that the training bits are definetely a downfall to it, including the risk of loosing it all by failing after 8 months of adaptation, submission and surviving the training mode that not one of us likes to be on. Now, I'm not anywhere close to being a Top Gun, and for what has been exposed here, I have the same chances of failing than the next guy, if not more. But I know and can give it a try. One thing is for sure, if they are paying me my salary from day 1, they are not charging me for the type rating or even bonding me, they are covering my accomodation expenses, and including airfare and hotel for my wife and kids to visit me, I think I can have reasons to believe that their real intention is for me to pass and fly for them, and not waste their time and money on a paid 9 month stay in Japan.
In any case, we will see if I can get an assesment or not. But in the meantime, let me tell you that greener pastures are hard to find, and that by searching around I think you will manage to move sideways at best, but I don't believe you will find a better gig in the contract/ex-pat arena. If there is, please advise so that we can all go there and be happy everafter.
Lastly, don't think of me (or any new comer) as intruders, or the reason why your conditions have degraded or will not improve. Pilots come and go, and with the actual world crisis, I'm sure that they are receiving a **** load of CV's by the day. This job has been advertised non stop for years, same as KAL. It is just their recruitment style to keep screening looking out for what they think matches their criteria and profile. Those who think that AJX is unable to pick up crews from the market because of their worsening conditions I think are not being realistic with the current situation out there. With that being said, it is obvious that ANA is satisfied with its expat group of pilots and that Air Japan is used by ANA as a threating and pressure tool to keep their mainline unionized pilots in line, just like many other flag carriers do. I don't have the crystal ball, but I have the feeling that Air Japan will grow and will continue to be one of the best contracts out there, despite the low morale currently in place by most of its drivers.
Ok, back to the kitchen now to cook my spaghettis for my 12 hour/ 6 sector duty of tomorrow morning (if you can call 3:55 AM morning time)...
In the contract arena is not strange to see attrition levels pick up on every single airline on a rotating cycle. It happens in AJX, in RYR, in the sandpit and everywhere you look at. The airlines where most of your excolleagues from AJX are leaving to, guess what, they are probably infested with pilots who are looking at the AJX gig, who would give an arm and a leg to be invited to Tokyo for an assesment, and who surely don't understand why anyone would come to their turf coming from Japan. "You're out of your mind leaving that job in Tokyo, man!", some of your colleagues will be told.
Pilots are whiners. I know because I'm a whiner myself. We just can't get content enough. I understand that any commuting job has always a time limit to it because regardless of how good the gig might be, people will always try to go back home even to worse conditions and not spend over half of their lives on the other side of the planet. But if you accept the fact that you are going to commute, and your family supports you on that decision, there is no doubt that AJX is one of the best contracts out there, if not the best, and that's even with the after-the-merger regressions. And it is good just because it's better than the other available contracts out there, plain and simple. The money is better, the business class commute is better , the amount of days off is better, the fleet is better, and the base (Tokyo) is much better than so many other third world country where you most likely will end up making less money, flying more hours, with less days off, and a worse commute home.
So you've had your conditions worsened. Welcome to the real world of contracting aviation. And be careful what you wish for, because your wishes may become true. I see one of the biggest issues that are being mentioned here is fatigue. Now I fly 900 hours a year of short haul flying and wake up at 3:45 AM for 5 days in a row to fly with no food or water provided for 11 and change hour duties and with the fuel, on-time performance and operational pressures of the king of LCC's, not to mention that I make much less than AJX's CPTs do and that I fly 5 or 6 times their number of sectors, with all those beautiful turnarounds, CTOT's, unhhapy PAX who just got slammed at the gate for the size of their luggage, and surrounded by cabin crew and ground staff who are lucky to make a grand on their best month. Tell me about your fatigue issues and give me more details on your rostering complaints and we can discuss them, but be prepared to have a lasting discussion because fatigue is an issue in most contracting jobs out there. Not being unionized and being expats, leaves us all contractors exposed to rostering abuses, change of conditions, dishonouring of contracting clauses, and an endless list of undesirable trends that, I'm afraid, you will find in your next gig unless you're being recalled to your lovely major or your uncle owns a learjet.
I frankly don't think that is fair to say that experienced drivers who actually like AJX (or better said don't dislike it that much so as to leave for another job), are just suffering of Stockholm syndrome. IMHO, they have simply not found a better option. And guess what, nowdays they're not going to, simply because there aren't any. And I have done my shopping around, just like anybody else in the contracting bubble.
I realize that being succesful for this job is harder than the average, and that the training bits are definetely a downfall to it, including the risk of loosing it all by failing after 8 months of adaptation, submission and surviving the training mode that not one of us likes to be on. Now, I'm not anywhere close to being a Top Gun, and for what has been exposed here, I have the same chances of failing than the next guy, if not more. But I know and can give it a try. One thing is for sure, if they are paying me my salary from day 1, they are not charging me for the type rating or even bonding me, they are covering my accomodation expenses, and including airfare and hotel for my wife and kids to visit me, I think I can have reasons to believe that their real intention is for me to pass and fly for them, and not waste their time and money on a paid 9 month stay in Japan.
In any case, we will see if I can get an assesment or not. But in the meantime, let me tell you that greener pastures are hard to find, and that by searching around I think you will manage to move sideways at best, but I don't believe you will find a better gig in the contract/ex-pat arena. If there is, please advise so that we can all go there and be happy everafter.
Lastly, don't think of me (or any new comer) as intruders, or the reason why your conditions have degraded or will not improve. Pilots come and go, and with the actual world crisis, I'm sure that they are receiving a **** load of CV's by the day. This job has been advertised non stop for years, same as KAL. It is just their recruitment style to keep screening looking out for what they think matches their criteria and profile. Those who think that AJX is unable to pick up crews from the market because of their worsening conditions I think are not being realistic with the current situation out there. With that being said, it is obvious that ANA is satisfied with its expat group of pilots and that Air Japan is used by ANA as a threating and pressure tool to keep their mainline unionized pilots in line, just like many other flag carriers do. I don't have the crystal ball, but I have the feeling that Air Japan will grow and will continue to be one of the best contracts out there, despite the low morale currently in place by most of its drivers.
Ok, back to the kitchen now to cook my spaghettis for my 12 hour/ 6 sector duty of tomorrow morning (if you can call 3:55 AM morning time)...
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To 737IPA
You are telling true man What ever peoples ,working there ,are saying ,this is Still a good contract
No where you will find a commuting contract with those conditions
And those who want to try Skymark good luck HA HA
Been there, working 6 days in row, commuting in cattle class, no pay raise, and JCAB ride every years ( sim check and route check)
And if you think that ANA japanese pilots or instructors are bad, just try the Japan Airlines ex Captains (Japanese ) who think they are the best in the world
Management at Skymark.....only the ONE who decide The owner
By the way I have a friend working for them,(Air Japan) for maybe 10 years now and even if it is not perfect, he is still quite happy
You are telling true man What ever peoples ,working there ,are saying ,this is Still a good contract
No where you will find a commuting contract with those conditions
And those who want to try Skymark good luck HA HA
Been there, working 6 days in row, commuting in cattle class, no pay raise, and JCAB ride every years ( sim check and route check)
And if you think that ANA japanese pilots or instructors are bad, just try the Japan Airlines ex Captains (Japanese ) who think they are the best in the world
Management at Skymark.....only the ONE who decide The owner
By the way I have a friend working for them,(Air Japan) for maybe 10 years now and even if it is not perfect, he is still quite happy
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there is a reason why a bunch of guys have left/will leave for Skymark and other Asian carriers recently
We know the 1 who has gone; captain, great guy, sorely missed and who just kept his word that he would go if certain conditions weren't changed and they weren't.
We know the one who will almost certainly go because there's a chance he'll get DEC there, when he'll never get his command at AJX.
That leaves us with the other 3. All of whom are FOs who are interested in Skymark only if they can go there as DECs, rather than wait another 8-12 months before they get their commands at AJX. I can't help but think they might be being a little short-sighted but I'm also certain they'd have other reasons for going (tax, paid for accommodation etc), so each to their own and the best of luck if they do go.
'Other Asian carriers'? Well, 1 went at the end of his contract and is now almost certainly going to go to Skymark, so I don't think he was too happy with his choice of alternative airlines (I'd be interested to know who PD has been talking to because I don't know who the happy ones are in their new jobs). It would be great to see him back in AJX but I don't think that would happen by his choice.
SO, yes, we've had a couple leave and a few more that may but the impression that floods of pilots are leaving is just not true and, as ever, there's a lot more said than done!
I'm obviously suffering from Stockholm Syndrome because I'm still here, despite being very, very pissed off when they screwed up the integration. However, I've done a LOT of homework and have come to the conclusion that it is still the best CONTRACT job around. That is clearly a lot different to a 'normal' job and, if I knew then what I know now, I would not have left the regular side of things for a contract job. However, having made that decision, I'm still certain that this is the best of the bunch in our world. They still have a long way to go to get it right (again) and I'll help in any way I can to get there but I think anyone is deluding themselves if they think there's a better contract job out there.......and I agree, Jepp amendments really suck
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There is a LOT of movement in every job out there right now, a good friend that is a captain at EK just confirmed that he received an email letting him know that they opened the floodgates for DEC positions again, that is very telling of what is to come in terms of pilot shortages in the international arena, people make decisions based on many factors, I was chatting with one of our captains on my last flight with him and after 10 years here he is moving on to an A330 DEC gig, he was telling me that was grateful for the chance when he got it and he wasn't leaving because he was mad, simply because after 10 years on the 767 it is the right time to make a move. Some people were expecting to be on the left seat after 3 years here and that didn't materialized, I'm sure that those guys and the captain I was talking to have very different perspectives about the exact same job, some guys will pick up and head to Emirates as DEC,s from here I'm sure, and maybe they will have a great time there and enjoy Dubai, I wouldn't take my wife and daughter to live in that society and subject myself to flying 900 hours a year, but I cannot criticize somebody who does it, everyone seeks different things from their gig, I look at absolutes as unrealistic, everyone hates it, everyone I fly with is looking to get out, everyone is happy, everyone loves it, all of those statements are simply incorrect because we are all different and are living at a different stage of our lives. Also the concept that a pilot will make a decision about his career from what people post on PPrune is just ludicrous, just as ridiculous as placing the application shortages on the "information" we provide here, people are always applying to this job, there have never been a time when the applications have dried out, sorry to have to find out this way
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lucky if you make it through training too
Considder the cut rate
Dont think you will be in anyway immune
It is a very different place
If I said to you that you can leave your current command, come over here, but you'll have a 70% chance of passing....would you still come?
That's about it hey Dom?
Considder the cut rate
Dont think you will be in anyway immune
It is a very different place
If I said to you that you can leave your current command, come over here, but you'll have a 70% chance of passing....would you still come?
That's about it hey Dom?
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Emirates DEC
Now that it's official and they're accepting applications in the desert for DEC's, we will see if the attrition levels pick up or not at AJX. This is definetely gonna make a lot of people think and wonder.
On the other hand, this could be good for those staying on board AJX and for those (like me) trying to get on board, as conditions may improve a bit if ANA sees a threat of its AJX pilots heading to the sandpit. I know RYR for sure will suffer the consequences of this move by EK.
Maybe we'll get a bottle of water now for duties exceeding 10 hours...
On the other hand, this could be good for those staying on board AJX and for those (like me) trying to get on board, as conditions may improve a bit if ANA sees a threat of its AJX pilots heading to the sandpit. I know RYR for sure will suffer the consequences of this move by EK.
Maybe we'll get a bottle of water now for duties exceeding 10 hours...
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Well, we definitely have an attrition problem here since last year. (you can be the judge in deciding if this is in line with other carriers who hire foreign pilots) Not just a few trickle here and there like in the past, but almost 20 pilots have left last year, with a couple to other Japanese carriers. As for SM, actually, 1 guy already started class this year, and 4 more have firm class dates there. (whether they'll actually go, no one knows). Plus the 1 Dom mentioned, another going back to the US, a couple more who are looking at one of the new Japanese startups very seriously, and a few more definitely in the process of leaving. It totals to about a dozen. If that's not a bunch, I don't know what is. Again, whether or not these guys leave, that remains to be answered until they actually give AJX the sayonara notice.
I'm not in any way trying to make up stories to discourage people from coming here. However, this place is definitely not what it was before the "merger" though. Just stating the facts and maybe some rumors that's going around. But if you still want to come here, I say come on and you can be your own judge about this place - and good luck again. It still works out for a lot of the pilots here. My cool-aid started tasting sour a while back.
And yes, the grass is not always greener on the other side, but sometimes it is.
I'm not in any way trying to make up stories to discourage people from coming here. However, this place is definitely not what it was before the "merger" though. Just stating the facts and maybe some rumors that's going around. But if you still want to come here, I say come on and you can be your own judge about this place - and good luck again. It still works out for a lot of the pilots here. My cool-aid started tasting sour a while back.
And yes, the grass is not always greener on the other side, but sometimes it is.
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almost 20 pilots have left last year
If you could PM those names I'd be very grateful. I'm not trying to dilute your message but I can't get anywhere near 20.
I agree with your figures regarding potential leavers. I reckon 7-8 definites/almost definites, with another 4 who are certainly looking seriously at other jobs.
The recruitment is nowhere near keeping up and we will, I think, be running at a net loss. This could be an okay thing IF they reacted by upping the terms and conditions. On the other hand they could hand some of the flying back to ANA and I'd be willing to bet a couple of Asahis that it won't be passenger flying. So we COULD end up with an even worse deal i.e. more freight + OKA + a salary reduction (for the AJV captains), which would certainly outweigh the 'extra' commuting day we've gained.
This is one of those spiral situations. If we could get more pilots then we could get more of the flying shared around, leading to less fatiguing and more equitable rosters. The opposite is also true, as we are seeing at the moment. The days off are, in my opinion, pretty good and the best of the commuting jobs. Likewise the commuting itself; you can't really get any better. So the problems of rosters etc comes down to money. More money and an exchange rate protection for the salary = more pilots = better rosters = happy pilots = more pilots applying/staying.
It really isn't rocket science but I don't see Parc, nor Crew stepping up and getting it sorted out and that's what is required. You'd think the falling numbers of pilots on their books would prompt some sort of action but I'm clearly, as ever, not seeing the Big Picture
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The recruitment is nowhere near keeping up and we will, I think, be running at a net loss. This could be an okay thing IF they reacted by upping the terms and conditions. On the other hand they could hand some of the flying back to ANA and I'd be willing to bet a couple of Asahis that it won't be passenger flying.
Sorry to burst your bubble Frate but...
We've already lost one PAX destination flight. NRT-BKK = GONE This was given back to ANA mainline due to lack of crew at AJX. We still operate cargo flights to BKK but no more PAX. From what I am hearing one of the HNL flights is next. Standby.
You owe someone a couple of Asahis
Sorry to burst your bubble Frate but...
We've already lost one PAX destination flight. NRT-BKK = GONE This was given back to ANA mainline due to lack of crew at AJX. We still operate cargo flights to BKK but no more PAX. From what I am hearing one of the HNL flights is next. Standby.
You owe someone a couple of Asahis
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20 is an accurate number of pilots gone in the past year. There are 2 currently at Skymark in training and 3 heading out the door to go there in March. I think Skymark gets it where ANA doesn't. The place sucked a year ago, however quality of life is heading in the right direction. No more JCAB checkrides every 6 months. Just on your initial checkride...everthing else is now done in-house. Sky pays all your taxes. Pilots have the ability to make 20k per month, they can bank first class tickets every month and in turn use them to go anywhere for them and their family, residency card (unlike ANA), business class ticketing to your doorstep, pay is actually higher than ANA, A330/A380's coming, upon completion of your first contract an automatic upgrade to instructor ($3000/mo) and an extra 2 days off bringing you inline with AJX. I believe more have left AJX for Sky than the other way around, so I can't say I would agree that our contract is the best in Asia. I would go there in a heartbeat if I only met their requirements.
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Hey Esprit, I just got an unsolicited email from Rishworths with the T&Cs and they only claim 8K a month, How do you come up with 20K?? Their insurance is only for the pilot and not his family too, so there's another gorilla or two gone to start with. Can't see where you're getting the 20K from. Happy to be corrected of course
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The compensation package at SKY is $14,500 USD/month including salary and allowances, but with the attrition levels that they are experiencing right now (a good friend that recently joined the line there told me that they lost 12 captains in January) the company resorted to offer $1,000USD to fly on their days off, hence the 20K number that has been circling around, it is possible and some guys are doing it but it is by selling several days off to the company.
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My friend that is in training there has residency cards for him and his wife and kids. Therefore full medical from day one via the national healthcare system. You can sell back your ten days off every month your20 days of vacation at $1000/day. Anything over 75 hours is at $106/hr. Guys there regularly make 20k a month.
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So basically 6 to 7 days off per month and flying 85 to 95 hours per month of domestic flying to make 20K vs. 13 days at home and flying 60 hours per month to make 17K taking my business class commute, I hardly see how you come up with that it is a better contract with more pay, sure there is a monthly pay of about 3K more but you guys are working a full week more than me a month, I just can't see as to how that is better
I wish all you guys the best of luck, specially since you got a bad deal here with the bypass of the command and I'm glad you were offered DEC positions there, but to say that it is a better contract, is a little bit of a stretch.
I wish all you guys the best of luck, specially since you got a bad deal here with the bypass of the command and I'm glad you were offered DEC positions there, but to say that it is a better contract, is a little bit of a stretch.