Singaporean self-sponsored CPL holders - where are you?

[singapore_flyer]

from my first post:
I doubt you'll bother flying around leisurely with your ppl so it dosnt really matter if the club can't do navigation if you're set on doing cpl afterwards.

from my second post:
i meant for someone who wishes to fly professionally

'if you're set on doing cpl afterwards' would imply you 'wish to fly professionally'

you said :
assuming that all ppl holders who would go on to get a cpl and thus not fly around recreationally is wrong in the first place

i understand your statement two ways:
assuming that all ppl holders who would go on to get a cpl would not fly around recreationally is wrong in the first place
or
assuming that all ppl holders would go on to get a cpl and thus not fly around recreationally is wrong in the first place

your incorrect sentence structure aside, i said 'fly around leisurely with a ppl(only)'. in case you complain that i didnt write the word 'only', my response is that it could be omitted given the context. so the only situation where a wannabe would have qualms about getting a ppl-r would be if he intends to do much flying between his ppl and cpl, which is unlikely(for a wannabe). there's no problem once he gets his cpl, the problem would only be for the period inbetween.

this thread is about flying as a job, there's a seperate sub-forum for [private flying]

flying as a profession and flying as a passion are not mutually exclusive, i searched my soul and found that i would like to both enjoy flying and make money flying.

[Macarto]

Is Massey's CPL fATPL License Recognised by CAAS?

[mosca_sg]

Sonice69: The jumpstart package stated on the website seems a little too cheap to me. But anyway I will try calling them next week..didn't get a response when I tried calling yesterday.

By the way, I would like to get some opinions on whether -realistically-, as a female candidate applying for SilkAir: will getting a PPL give me any advantage going into interviews as compared to a raw candidate?

Since I'm already at the losing end as a female, I was thinking that a PPL might help..but since SQ hires so many raw candidates, another part of me thinks that it might not help at all.

[singapore_flyer]

Originally Posted by CAAS

There are no flying schools overseas approved for the CPL flying training except for the Singapore Flying College, a flying unit based in Jandakot, Perth. However we have an MOU (Memorandum of Understanding) with Massey University School of Aviation in New Zealand to allow Singaporeans to undergo a 3 year Bachelor of Aviation Degree course and upon completion, obtain a New Zealand Commercial Pilot Licence. We may consider converting the New Zealand licence to the Singapore equivalent.

For further information on this course, you may wish to contact the New Zealand Trade & Development Board (TDB) in Singapore at tel. no. 7387453.

if not sure if you can apply to silkair directly as SIA's website says 'upon completion of training you'll be posted to SQ SQC or MI'

getting a ppl shows your interest in aviation, at the cost of ~SGD9000. but then they'll expect you to know more and may ask more technical questions. why being a female puts you at the losing end?

[Macarto]

Singapore Flyer. does that mean that STATA CASA CPL is not regonised by CAAS? Non convertable?

[singapore_flyer]

everything is convertable, FAA, JAA, CASA etc. if im not wrong, massey's NZ licence can be converted directly without having to retake certain papers while converting a CASA licence would require you to retake. the specific conditions are burried somewhere in the CAAS website.

[mach.89]

taking CPL/IR in Dubai

hey all, i am a singaporean receiving my CPL/IR training in Dubai. i was not successful in my singapore airlines interview thus chose this alternate path. i would like to get some advise on what will be my career options once i have got my GCAA ( CAAS equivalent in dubai ) license
- Is it good to try in one of the airlines
- Is it good to join as an instructor
- etc.. seeking kind advise from any1....

[mach.89]

from Indian Aviation Academy ( based in ras-al-khaimah, UAE ) .. IAA Flying Academy

[Sonic69]

@mosca,
I think having a PPL gives you an advantage in the sense that it shows you are interested and passionate about aviation. And that you can at least handle a light aircraft.

I would say that doing your PPL is something you should at least do for yourself. Ask yourself "if Silkair doesn't offer me a cadetship, would I still want to get a PPL?"

[hewland]

Macarto,

You asked in another thread what's the use of self-sponsoring a CAAS license if GA in Singapore is limited. What would you suggest then?

[phrixus29]

very right on the bulls eye...I second the whole idea what ljjthegreat has just said..

CAAS license,you know what,you can take it to dinner with you and use it to clean your mouth after a good meal with your hot sexy gf...As long as you are not with any Singapore based airline,the CAAS license means jack s**t...

Basically,you would be stuck with a CAAS license and you can just keep praying to the lord hoping General Aviation comes to town....

[hewland]

Dizzy...

phrixus29, ljj,

Ya boy now that you mentioned it, doing the CAAS license with STATA will actually cause me/give me more problems than I'd like. What monkey...hahaha.

As much as I'd like to go to Oz now to do the CASA license, I can't due to domestic reasons. Anyway a couple of my friends are with STATA now so I'll see how it pans out for them.

[Macarto]

Yes its true that our GA in singapore is very limited. However even if we had CASA license we still have to build up hours before we get hired by foreign airline companies. Well either way its not a bed of roses kind of thing and career, only those who have the passion, interest and determination will succeed.

Are your friends in STATA the this year batch?

[hewland]

Macarto, yes they have been there 1 month now.

[Thermal Image]

if you look from the non-singaporean point of view, a caas license would not be as good as a non-caas license because there would be only 2 flight schools in singapore. reliability wise, not very convincing. also, the only flight school that currently offers caas license,SFC, charges more than say any malaysian/australian flight school. so if sure you're not gonna work in singapore (which currently, i don't see how you're going to as a self sponsored guy), then my advice is that you shouldnt get a caas license at all.

I would caution anyone thinking of getting a fATPL about taking advice from someone who doesn't even have a CPL, not to mention a flying job. What industry experience does this person have? ZERO. He has also shown a certain attitude from his history of postings. Not good.

These are the facts:

1. There are more self-sponsored Singaporean pilots working in Singapore carriers, whether SIA, SilkAir, Tiger or Jetstar, than in the rest of the world.

2. Anecdoctal evidence is that there are only a handful of Singaporean pilots who started with non-CAAS licenses and who still have flying jobs overseas. Of this number only a very small fraction have been able to join Singapore carriers.

3. There are more pilots (almost all who were sponsored cadets) who have left Singapore carriers to work for other airlines elsewhere, but that is another story altogether.

What does this tell you about your chances of getting a non-CAAS license and then (ie purely for the purpose of) trying to work outside Singapore?

If you want to be a GA pilot in Australia, Canada, the US or Africa for the rest of your life, go ahead. Nothing wrong with that at all. Good luck getting a job as a Singaporean.

But if your strategy is to build hours in a GA environment outside Singapore for the purposes of becoming an airline pilot, I would suggest to you that you are wasting your time.

The selection process to being chosen as a SIA cadet is competitive and thorough. In other words, if you are not chosen, then it is because SIA does not think much of you as being part of their pilot workforce and eventually being capable of becoming a captain. This is regardless of whether they are paying for you to do your fATPL.

It is far wiser to do your best to be chosen, instead of thinking about options if not chosen. Chances are if you are not chosen because of not meeting hard criteria (eg no 4 O levels passes in the required subjects in one sitting), then that is something YOU MUST FIX AT ALL COSTS if you are truly serious about becoming an airline pilot. If you are not chosen because of soft criteria (personality / character issues) then it is not likely that later you will have a higher chance of being selected.

So that begs the question if you are thinking of being a self-sponsored wannabe - what makes you think that after 10 years and 7,000 hours overseas you will now be (more) attractive to SIA? That is if you can even get the hours in the first place.

There is a "backdoor" of sorts into SIA as a cadet of which I have already mentioned in other posts. If you do not make the cut as a SIA cadet, then try to be a cadet flying instructor or failing that do your bloody best to be a private candidate at SFC.

So far the record for private cadidates at SFC has been good for those who work hard - the deserving ones (more than half the crop of self-sponsored candidates) were offered partial sponsorship, in return for the usual bond etc. They accepted and are doing OK.

And just in case you think that being a private candidate means that SFC will just take your money and make you a pilot come what may, sorry to disappoint you, they have also chopped private candidates because they were no bloody good.

Moral of the story - can't get in as as an SIA Cadet? Try Cadet FI. Cannot get Cadet FI, try Private Candidate. Get chopped as Private Candidate? Forgot about flying as a job. Completely. It's not meant to be.

The evidence also shows that for those who were chopped at SFC (private or not), and then went on elsewhere to complete their CPL or fATPL, that most were not successful. Some do have flying jobs, but they are the exception.

This sequence of events is much cheaper (in time and money terms) than going away and getting a fATPL on your own and more likely than not being jobless and in debt.

[overmars]

TI is the resident guru for flying in Singapore. If I were you guys, I would pay attention to what he says.

[Thermal Image]

yes,i have not even had one flying lesson yet. but my postings are based on the research that i have gathered. The information that i gave did not have to be gained through personal experience. If it is like that, it would be like that.

Thank you for being honest about yourself. I leave it to readers to choose whether they should believe someone making speculative statements or someone qualified and with industry experience.

you seem like you're trying to tell people to give up once they aren't selected

No. As I have said, if you are looking for a GA career, well and good. And already you start demonstrating your combative attitude towards people with experience and good intentions. As I have said before, you have an attitude problem.

then mid way through your post you happily decide to change your happy mind and give others a suggestion, which is EQUALLY as normal as the suggestions that I have given. Why did you do that? only you can answer yourself.

Have I indeed changed my mind? Your words now take on a mocking tone. As was pointed out in another posting between singapore_flyer and yourself, you now show again, a certain lack of comprehension skills and the same combative attitude.

who gave you the right to act as the SIA head of recruitment (or whatever) and impose your ideas on others?

Now, small boy, that is not the way to talk to your seniors who speak with experience and authority. I am providing free advice. I don't have to. If you feel that I am imposing on you, leave me your name. I will make sure that no one in SIA or any local based carrier imposes on you, for the very simple reason that they cannot impose on you if you don't work for them. As long as you work there you will meet with many many people who will "impose" on you. For that matter, to someone who has admitted that he has ZERO experience, I ask you the very same question, who gave you the right to impose your thoughts on others?

the purpose of this thread is to inspire more people to be as successful as these small group of people, no matter what the odds are.

That is like saying people should be encouraged to gamble because as you say, "no matter what the odds are", they could win. I prefer to be prudent and pick the low hanging fruit first.

i've no idea why you've so opposed to the idea of self-sponsoring overseas. Singapore is such a small place. Does not being selected for SIA mean the end of the road for aspirin singapore pilots? I doubt so. In fact the people who have posted here since the thread started would disagree with you.

I am not opposed to the idea of self sponsoring overseas. As I have said, if you want to be a GA pilot overseas, all the best to you. Again you demonstrate your lack of comprehension skills (not to mention respect). I am stating the facts about what happens after all that money has been spent. YOU have ZERO experience and industry knowledge to drawn upon. Most of the time it is not your money you are spending to take a chance. Your parents need to know the facts. You on the other hand are giving false hope to others that they have a fighting chance of joining a Singapore carrier after doing a self sponsored overseas course, combined with a long enough time in GA.

So, whom shall they believe, a punk kid with no experience, not even a single lesson (maybe can't even fly at all), or as overmars has said, the resident guru *blush* ?

[cruisercruiser]

Re: resident guru

Thanks Thermal for the honest an direct advice. Your adivice is hardest to swallow most of the time, wisest though.

Cheers

[HenC]

To: ljj the great

Being trained in Msia, I will have to disagree with your display of the statement that "standards in Msia are reputed to be low".

People get kicked out of schools and they do fail checks and tests. I can't see how schools with low standards would do that unless those behind the wheels are nuts.

PS: Perhaps you also should take a leaf out of TI's books. Insistence on one's ideas and disrespect to seniors is a big nono in aviation. My $0.02 worth bro. Cheers

[AiRBuS_380]

Hi Thermal Image & Overmars

nice to see you posting after along while... anyway i totally agree with you in your posting.

those who really do wish to fly, you should have did something about it and not wasting time as theses threads will not provide you the acurate decisions.