SIA CARGO
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: out there somewhere...
Posts: 763
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Speechless!
There you have it boys! Final proof that the long thought and now proven elitist attitude from the mainline exists and that SQC crews are second class! Thanks local guy for opening your big "makkan" hole and FINALLY letting us all know what you main line boys think of us! We were actually losing sleep over the worry. I for one sure am glad we know where we stand. Whew! What a relief! Now...go back to your perch, or stand, or little HDB flat, and leave us writhe in the agony of the second class standard you have so generously given to us. And oh, by the way...looks like your days of poaching, stealing, mis appropriating, cherry picking, or any other words associated with the verb to steal, are soon over...keep your sarcastic thoughts to yourself sir, you prove nothing here and what's worse, you are an embarrassment to yourself and your profession.
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: SINGAPORE
Age: 71
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
siago
Hi all,
whoop, you all are as what I Thought so fast to to shoot your thoughts.
Good, as last I confirmed my perception of cargo pilots............
Like, I mentioned earlier if I have joined a co and didnot find it to suit my needs or worst still have not honour their promises Why hang around. Please save us and yourselves the argony........leave this outfit and join another airline that can cater to you requirements........No use b.... nothing going to change...........Unless, you can accept the fact that we are here to fly for leasure not for bread and butter...........
Not forgetting we came here for the B744 rating............Which airline in this world will give you and I the B744 rating.............
whoop, you all are as what I Thought so fast to to shoot your thoughts.
Good, as last I confirmed my perception of cargo pilots............
Like, I mentioned earlier if I have joined a co and didnot find it to suit my needs or worst still have not honour their promises Why hang around. Please save us and yourselves the argony........leave this outfit and join another airline that can cater to you requirements........No use b.... nothing going to change...........Unless, you can accept the fact that we are here to fly for leasure not for bread and butter...........
Not forgetting we came here for the B744 rating............Which airline in this world will give you and I the B744 rating.............
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: SINGAPORE
Age: 71
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bananasbananas
Bananas,
Please check the COP carefully, there is no 18 days COP. Like, I have mentioned earlier please state only facts and figure so that those who are keen and interested in applying for SQcargo can have a true picture of this airline .
Please check the COP carefully, there is no 18 days COP. Like, I have mentioned earlier please state only facts and figure so that those who are keen and interested in applying for SQcargo can have a true picture of this airline .
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: SINGAPORE
Age: 71
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bananasbananas
Bananas,
Please check the COP carefully, there is no 18 days COP. Like, I have mentioned earlier please state only facts and figure so that those who are keen and interested in applying for SQcargo can have a true picture of this airline .
Please check the COP carefully, there is no 18 days COP. Like, I have mentioned earlier please state only facts and figure so that those who are keen and interested in applying for SQcargo can have a true picture of this airline .
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Formerly resident of Knoteatingham
Posts: 957
Received 119 Likes
on
59 Posts
Ok, Bananas will try to inject some sanity back into proceedings.
CJ and 744 local: You may be on opposite sides of the discussion but I am sure I speak for all when I say that your comments do nothing for the image of SIA Mainline or Cargo. Similarly, you do yourselves a grave disservice with the way you present your particular brands of vitriol.
744 Local. You have labelled me and my colleagues "ungrateful beggars," "bush" pilots and have further accused me of not knowing my own COP's. I have no idea what "Whoop, Ha, Very rude" is intended to mean but you might like to practice your English skills before your next annual line check. They are assessed now you know.
To address each issue in turn.
Ungrateful? What is there to be grateful for? The nature of any contract is that there is an agreement between 2 parties, usually involving the purchase of a service for an agreed remuneration. Each party honours their side of the agreement. There is no obligation placed on either party to be grateful as far as I know.
Beggars? Well, the old saying is that "Beggars can't be choosers" isn't it? Why then did I and most of my colleagues have choices other than SIA Cargo from which to choose if we are beggars? Most of us are also sitting on other options as we wait for the promised improvents to materialise.
Bush Pilots? First let me defend Bush pilots who have handling skills that are probably amongst the finest in the world and certainly better than yours or mine. Now, does the following sound like the definition of a "Bush pilot" to you?
Converted to first commercial aircraft 25 years ago - a 4 Jet.
Flown nothing but twin or 4 jet passenger transport ever since.
Has a grand total in excess of 11000 hours of which there is a total of less than 200 hours on piston or turbo prop - and most of that 200 hours spent on recreational flying.
Has flown more Heads of State, Royalty, VVIP's as a Captain and F/O than I care to look up in my log books.
One may be of interest to you though.
31 October 2000. Name of VVIP? Lee Kuan Yew. I wonder how he feels about being flown by a "bush pilot?"
18 Day COP? Yes my friend, it did exist. So much so that when a complaint was made to crewing, through the fleet office, changes were made at the instigation of the DCP and STG. Thanks for a job well done guys.
Now, perhaps we can get back to the thread! Whoop!
CJ and 744 local: You may be on opposite sides of the discussion but I am sure I speak for all when I say that your comments do nothing for the image of SIA Mainline or Cargo. Similarly, you do yourselves a grave disservice with the way you present your particular brands of vitriol.
744 Local. You have labelled me and my colleagues "ungrateful beggars," "bush" pilots and have further accused me of not knowing my own COP's. I have no idea what "Whoop, Ha, Very rude" is intended to mean but you might like to practice your English skills before your next annual line check. They are assessed now you know.
To address each issue in turn.
Ungrateful? What is there to be grateful for? The nature of any contract is that there is an agreement between 2 parties, usually involving the purchase of a service for an agreed remuneration. Each party honours their side of the agreement. There is no obligation placed on either party to be grateful as far as I know.
Beggars? Well, the old saying is that "Beggars can't be choosers" isn't it? Why then did I and most of my colleagues have choices other than SIA Cargo from which to choose if we are beggars? Most of us are also sitting on other options as we wait for the promised improvents to materialise.
Bush Pilots? First let me defend Bush pilots who have handling skills that are probably amongst the finest in the world and certainly better than yours or mine. Now, does the following sound like the definition of a "Bush pilot" to you?
Converted to first commercial aircraft 25 years ago - a 4 Jet.
Flown nothing but twin or 4 jet passenger transport ever since.
Has a grand total in excess of 11000 hours of which there is a total of less than 200 hours on piston or turbo prop - and most of that 200 hours spent on recreational flying.
Has flown more Heads of State, Royalty, VVIP's as a Captain and F/O than I care to look up in my log books.
One may be of interest to you though.
31 October 2000. Name of VVIP? Lee Kuan Yew. I wonder how he feels about being flown by a "bush pilot?"
18 Day COP? Yes my friend, it did exist. So much so that when a complaint was made to crewing, through the fleet office, changes were made at the instigation of the DCP and STG. Thanks for a job well done guys.
Now, perhaps we can get back to the thread! Whoop!
Last edited by BANANASBANANAS; 9th Feb 2007 at 12:23.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Above 30,000 ft
Posts: 215
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey Bananas,
<31 October 2000. Name of VIP? Lee Kuan Yew. I wonder how he feels about being flown by a "bush pilot?">
I'm not about to get involved in juvenile slagging between you guys. All i want to say is that, the date of your VVIP flight with Lee Kuan Yew is mighty coincidental..... if anyone cares to type in a search with the words "SQ006" or "31 Oct 2000"......
Well back to it boys - happy fighting!
<31 October 2000. Name of VIP? Lee Kuan Yew. I wonder how he feels about being flown by a "bush pilot?">
I'm not about to get involved in juvenile slagging between you guys. All i want to say is that, the date of your VVIP flight with Lee Kuan Yew is mighty coincidental..... if anyone cares to type in a search with the words "SQ006" or "31 Oct 2000"......
Well back to it boys - happy fighting!
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Formerly resident of Knoteatingham
Posts: 957
Received 119 Likes
on
59 Posts
LKY
Hi Gengis,
Yes it was most unfortunate timing. The SQ006 accident actually happened later that night, by which time I had positioned back to SIN for a night stop. On the morning of 01 Nov I had to go to FOCC to brief which was very difficult.
I was not in the employ of SIA Cargo then but had the pleasure of flying the Minister Mentor from SIN to BWN where he had a meeting with HM the Sultan of Brunei.
As an aside, we very nearly ended up in Kota Kinabalu as the weather in BWN was awful, something like 210/60 in torrential rain if I remember correctly. One of the few days that I actually felt I earned my flying pay.
The thread was progressing reasonably well until CJ and 744 Local got involved. I was going to ask the Mod to pull the thread but it would only start up again elsewhere so I thought it best to try to get this one back on track.
Yes it was most unfortunate timing. The SQ006 accident actually happened later that night, by which time I had positioned back to SIN for a night stop. On the morning of 01 Nov I had to go to FOCC to brief which was very difficult.
I was not in the employ of SIA Cargo then but had the pleasure of flying the Minister Mentor from SIN to BWN where he had a meeting with HM the Sultan of Brunei.
As an aside, we very nearly ended up in Kota Kinabalu as the weather in BWN was awful, something like 210/60 in torrential rain if I remember correctly. One of the few days that I actually felt I earned my flying pay.
The thread was progressing reasonably well until CJ and 744 Local got involved. I was going to ask the Mod to pull the thread but it would only start up again elsewhere so I thought it best to try to get this one back on track.
Last edited by BANANASBANANAS; 10th Feb 2007 at 02:16.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Above 30,000 ft
Posts: 215
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
hey bananas,
<I was not in the employ of SIA C then but had the pleasure of flying the Minister Mentor from SIN to BWN where he had a meeting with HM the Sultan of Brunei.>
SIN-BWN eh? Short flight..... well, i guess nobody had time to try to usurp your crew rest bunks & deprive you of legal in-flight rest then.
<I was not in the employ of SIA C then but had the pleasure of flying the Minister Mentor from SIN to BWN where he had a meeting with HM the Sultan of Brunei.>
SIN-BWN eh? Short flight..... well, i guess nobody had time to try to usurp your crew rest bunks & deprive you of legal in-flight rest then.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Formerly resident of Knoteatingham
Posts: 957
Received 119 Likes
on
59 Posts
Crew bunk on a B757? Interesting concept!
Is there something you are trying to tell us Gengis?
Is there something you are trying to tell us Gengis?
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Above 30,000 ft
Posts: 215
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
<Crew bunk on a B757? Interesting concept! Is there something you are trying to tell us Gengis?>
Naw. Just refering to a particularly objectionable practice in SQ of giving the crew bunks to a certain VIP when they are legally required, necessary & provided for under internationally established rules, in order to extend flight duty periods on long haul flights. Not that it matters for you freight drivers - i digress & i apologise.
Naw. Just refering to a particularly objectionable practice in SQ of giving the crew bunks to a certain VIP when they are legally required, necessary & provided for under internationally established rules, in order to extend flight duty periods on long haul flights. Not that it matters for you freight drivers - i digress & i apologise.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Away
Posts: 300
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Gengis,
Allow me to accept your apology on behalf of pretty much everyone here and far, though to be sure, it's not really necessary.
One of the greatest things about the PPRuNe is its reach. Few recalcitrant airlines are able to hide their abhorrent practices any longer.
If I feel the need, I'll air my grievances here, loud and clear.
Nothing against the law in that sense. And if I'm rabbiting on, like B744local, it is all the more obvious with the free-for-all, no-holds-barred aspect of this magnificent forum.
I invite you to do so as well, without apology.
PS We share info in the pub...this is an extension of same, without the grog.
Allow me to accept your apology on behalf of pretty much everyone here and far, though to be sure, it's not really necessary.
One of the greatest things about the PPRuNe is its reach. Few recalcitrant airlines are able to hide their abhorrent practices any longer.
If I feel the need, I'll air my grievances here, loud and clear.
Nothing against the law in that sense. And if I'm rabbiting on, like B744local, it is all the more obvious with the free-for-all, no-holds-barred aspect of this magnificent forum.
I invite you to do so as well, without apology.
PS We share info in the pub...this is an extension of same, without the grog.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Away
Posts: 300
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Please let me set the record straight on a few 'facts' pertaining to B744 DEC's - I see the issue of "bush pilots" has been rather well dealt with...
I confirm that SQ are not the only airline to offer B744 LHS jobs.
CAL did, as did Eva, both of whom it is rumored are about to commence that program again. One of the lads I spoke to recently, a gentleman, was a B737 Skipper from Germany who trundled off to Taipei for a B737 interview.
Ended up on the B744. Similar story with Eva, only me other mate had a different type to a B737 on arrival at his interview in Taipei.
Then there's Cathay Cargo, at the time was known as ASL, who employed B767 drivers straight into the LHS of the freighter. Oh, but that was only a -200 series B747. Should we discount Cathay/ASL, then?
Never mind, a fellow by the name of John H went off to a B744 LHS DEC jobbie from a B767, only that job was in Europe. Does Europe count these days, or are we speaking solely of Asia?
Nothing like getting the truth in the way of a good story, is there.
Now here's a tip: the only reason things are set to change about town, specifically in Cargo, is this Forum.
What were once whispers in bars down-route, about practices in good carriers and bad, are now bared down to the bone, quickly, by those in the know on PPRuNe.
Some people don't like that. Makes it more difficult to lie, and get away with it.
Long may the revolution in bandwidth continue.
I confirm that SQ are not the only airline to offer B744 LHS jobs.
CAL did, as did Eva, both of whom it is rumored are about to commence that program again. One of the lads I spoke to recently, a gentleman, was a B737 Skipper from Germany who trundled off to Taipei for a B737 interview.
Ended up on the B744. Similar story with Eva, only me other mate had a different type to a B737 on arrival at his interview in Taipei.
Then there's Cathay Cargo, at the time was known as ASL, who employed B767 drivers straight into the LHS of the freighter. Oh, but that was only a -200 series B747. Should we discount Cathay/ASL, then?
Never mind, a fellow by the name of John H went off to a B744 LHS DEC jobbie from a B767, only that job was in Europe. Does Europe count these days, or are we speaking solely of Asia?
Nothing like getting the truth in the way of a good story, is there.
Now here's a tip: the only reason things are set to change about town, specifically in Cargo, is this Forum.
What were once whispers in bars down-route, about practices in good carriers and bad, are now bared down to the bone, quickly, by those in the know on PPRuNe.
Some people don't like that. Makes it more difficult to lie, and get away with it.
Long may the revolution in bandwidth continue.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Above 30,000 ft
Posts: 215
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
4 PW's: thank you.
To all the rest of the SQC guys, if i may be so bold as to opine. The history of SQC is familiar to all, no doubt. Just to point out the salient facts - SIA has been flying cargo only airplanes for a very long time. I recall flying 747 Classic freighters in the eighties. Of course the 744F also came onto the scene later on, during which time ALL of SIA's cargo flights were also flown by us "mainline" guys (that includes winter heavyweights in to ANC, DUB, Canarsie & Kai Tak with a roaring typhoon not too far away, surprising it may seem to some). The idea of Sing Cargo being hived off as a somewhat independant outfit only came along very much later - if memory serves me correctly, sometime around 2000? What do you suppose management's intent was? There will no doubt be many differing opinions on this, but I submit that there is one reason which few will disagree with: cost cutting. SIA management's perenial, incessant & ruthless efforts at this are well known and documented. SIA felt - then & now - that they can get cheaper (for want of a better word) pilots than mainline guys by hiring outside of SIA proper; hence avoid the union rules & profit sharing agreements. That's where you guys came in. It sounds totally distasteful to use words like "cheaper" or "2nd Class" - it is certainly not my intent to stigmatise in this way - but in essence that's exactly how SIA management wants it. Unfortunately you guys are on the wrong side of the battle lines. I would add that your Chief Pilot will never admit this openly to you; but you really don't have to be a rocket scientist to deduce the real reasons.
At the same time, i cannot help but feel a little cynical about it as well. A lot has been said on PPRUNE over the years about SIA's attitude & conduct - i have no doubts that anyone joining either SIA or SQC would have read the many threads about it and made the decision to come with their eyes wide 'open'. Hence, bitching and moaning about it now, after the event, is a little like deliberately flying into the CB and then cursing the engine flameout from water ingestion that followed. You guys have my sympathies, but like i have said, the lines had been drawn long before SQC was even started. I hope you realise that.
Best of luck, anyhow.
To all the rest of the SQC guys, if i may be so bold as to opine. The history of SQC is familiar to all, no doubt. Just to point out the salient facts - SIA has been flying cargo only airplanes for a very long time. I recall flying 747 Classic freighters in the eighties. Of course the 744F also came onto the scene later on, during which time ALL of SIA's cargo flights were also flown by us "mainline" guys (that includes winter heavyweights in to ANC, DUB, Canarsie & Kai Tak with a roaring typhoon not too far away, surprising it may seem to some). The idea of Sing Cargo being hived off as a somewhat independant outfit only came along very much later - if memory serves me correctly, sometime around 2000? What do you suppose management's intent was? There will no doubt be many differing opinions on this, but I submit that there is one reason which few will disagree with: cost cutting. SIA management's perenial, incessant & ruthless efforts at this are well known and documented. SIA felt - then & now - that they can get cheaper (for want of a better word) pilots than mainline guys by hiring outside of SIA proper; hence avoid the union rules & profit sharing agreements. That's where you guys came in. It sounds totally distasteful to use words like "cheaper" or "2nd Class" - it is certainly not my intent to stigmatise in this way - but in essence that's exactly how SIA management wants it. Unfortunately you guys are on the wrong side of the battle lines. I would add that your Chief Pilot will never admit this openly to you; but you really don't have to be a rocket scientist to deduce the real reasons.
At the same time, i cannot help but feel a little cynical about it as well. A lot has been said on PPRUNE over the years about SIA's attitude & conduct - i have no doubts that anyone joining either SIA or SQC would have read the many threads about it and made the decision to come with their eyes wide 'open'. Hence, bitching and moaning about it now, after the event, is a little like deliberately flying into the CB and then cursing the engine flameout from water ingestion that followed. You guys have my sympathies, but like i have said, the lines had been drawn long before SQC was even started. I hope you realise that.
Best of luck, anyhow.
Last edited by gengis; 9th Feb 2007 at 16:28.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Away
Posts: 300
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Gengis, you are on the money.
I came here with the knowledge of those threads, it's true. It was nonetheless a risk I thought worthy of the reward. I was wrong, simple as that.
So like squash, I'm now playing the ball against the wall until I get my eye back in, as it were.
Notwithstanding this acknowledgement, it has to be said that not one person I knew at the time of the 2003 series of adverts for B744 DECs in SIAC took the offer of interview.
The money was paltry; the rest of the contract was even worse.
SIAC seemed to have got the message way back then, which brings me to the advert I responded to.
In those adverts were improvements to the terms and conditions to the tune of no less than 40% over and above the 2003 contract's terms and conditions.
I still have that copy, and am very pleased about that, if only to prove to myself I am not full of hot air.
What irks me somewhat, along with many others, is the apparent lie inherent in the new contracts on offer.
There now appears to have been no intention to honor the terms and conditions of the newer advertisements for DECs.
If there had been an intention to do so, it could reasonably be argued that appropriate systems and procedures would have been put in place such that SIAC pilots really would fly 70 hours per month - so as to achieve the computed figures.
Regardless of the above, I was wrong.
It's great logic, but I was wrong. I did not "read the signs". I did not read past threads on the PPRuNe effectively enough. I thought I was employing due diligence, assuming as one does that the rule of law applied here, unequivocally, for everyone.
Does it?
As Mr B said, the promise of jam is too late.
I would add to that, if I may.
The potential for average hours approaching that magic figure of 70 a month, and what a caveat that is, in the coming months is not sufficient comfort to me simply because it is dabbling at a fix.
If, as it might reasonably be argued, there was an intention to redress the shocking imbalance in lost salary from lowered flight pay, then money would be fronted-up should the roster system be incapable of being written now, today, such that monthly take home pay by way of flight hours was equivalent to that advertised.
This appears simplistic, perhaps, but it is necessary because to do otherwise would be to make good on false advertising, or at least appear to make good on false advertising, which is the same thing in the end. God bless America...
That Singapore prides itself on transparancy in law is often read about in top-shelf magazines and broadsheets about the news stands.
It remains to be seen as to how the rule of law will be interpreted when I do leave SIAC, sooner rather than later, and whether or not it applies equally to me as to all others.
You win, Behemoth, Leviathan, Giant of Aviation, which is why I'm leaving...
Or do you?
I came here with the knowledge of those threads, it's true. It was nonetheless a risk I thought worthy of the reward. I was wrong, simple as that.
So like squash, I'm now playing the ball against the wall until I get my eye back in, as it were.
Notwithstanding this acknowledgement, it has to be said that not one person I knew at the time of the 2003 series of adverts for B744 DECs in SIAC took the offer of interview.
The money was paltry; the rest of the contract was even worse.
SIAC seemed to have got the message way back then, which brings me to the advert I responded to.
In those adverts were improvements to the terms and conditions to the tune of no less than 40% over and above the 2003 contract's terms and conditions.
I still have that copy, and am very pleased about that, if only to prove to myself I am not full of hot air.
What irks me somewhat, along with many others, is the apparent lie inherent in the new contracts on offer.
There now appears to have been no intention to honor the terms and conditions of the newer advertisements for DECs.
If there had been an intention to do so, it could reasonably be argued that appropriate systems and procedures would have been put in place such that SIAC pilots really would fly 70 hours per month - so as to achieve the computed figures.
Regardless of the above, I was wrong.
It's great logic, but I was wrong. I did not "read the signs". I did not read past threads on the PPRuNe effectively enough. I thought I was employing due diligence, assuming as one does that the rule of law applied here, unequivocally, for everyone.
Does it?
As Mr B said, the promise of jam is too late.
I would add to that, if I may.
The potential for average hours approaching that magic figure of 70 a month, and what a caveat that is, in the coming months is not sufficient comfort to me simply because it is dabbling at a fix.
If, as it might reasonably be argued, there was an intention to redress the shocking imbalance in lost salary from lowered flight pay, then money would be fronted-up should the roster system be incapable of being written now, today, such that monthly take home pay by way of flight hours was equivalent to that advertised.
This appears simplistic, perhaps, but it is necessary because to do otherwise would be to make good on false advertising, or at least appear to make good on false advertising, which is the same thing in the end. God bless America...
That Singapore prides itself on transparancy in law is often read about in top-shelf magazines and broadsheets about the news stands.
It remains to be seen as to how the rule of law will be interpreted when I do leave SIAC, sooner rather than later, and whether or not it applies equally to me as to all others.
You win, Behemoth, Leviathan, Giant of Aviation, which is why I'm leaving...
Or do you?
Last edited by 4PW's; 9th Feb 2007 at 13:10.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Above 30,000 ft
Posts: 215
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
4 PW's, you really have my sympathies. I have followed - albeit inconsistently - this thread. The thrust of many a respondant revolves around what was "advertised" vs what was actually produced. This is a perfectly reasonable expectation, and one which i myself (were I in your position) also likely hold. Unfortunately, you are dealing with a company which has a record of going back on its word and reneging on written binding agreements (contracts, Collective Agreements etc) signed by their own hand. There are many examples to cite; in one particular case (i am not certain if you are familiar with its details) - that of the Business Class crew rest seats - the company reneged on the agreement & principles behind it a full 13 years after it had already been implemented, going as far as playing with words & "intended meanings"..... and finally raising the bar to their political "masters". This is but one example. If a company can attempt a 180 on what it has long since inked & signed, and actually get away with it with help from on top, I put it to you that it would be a cold day in hell before they concede to something which was merely advertised in Flight International. I wish it were different, really i do, but perhaps i have seen too much of them; nevertheless i would dearly love to be proven wrong on this. My take though, is that a leopard does not change its spots and my suggestion would be to walk away and start anew with a better outfit, as many others before you have done. Your energies are limited; rather than waste them on a very uphill battle, use them in the manner which would benefit you most - flying for a real airline, one that respects you. There's nowhere that'll be perfect in every sense, but as you are probably aware, there are many better outfits to be in than this lot. It's a pilot's market these days, as you have rightly pointed out in an earlier post.
Best of luck
Best of luck
Last edited by gengis; 9th Feb 2007 at 16:22.
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 846
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
gengis
Most of the Cargo guys cannot just walk away as you suggest because they are still under bond and I doubt if it would cut any ice with SQ Management that they should let the guys off their bond because they are not getting their S$7000 per month allowances.
Yes I too lost my crew bunk to the then Senior Minister on a Double Crew Long Haul Flight to Europe. I was called by crewing and asked if i minded giving it up and was told I could take a First Class seat for my rest instead.Rather than cut off my nose to spite my face I agreed as otherwise I would no doubt have been taken off the flight and given 5 days Standby and lose at least $2000 in productivty and allowances,even more if i was into overtime.
Despite what B744 Local says I do not want to fly just 45 hours a month and nor does anyone else I know.
Most of the Cargo guys cannot just walk away as you suggest because they are still under bond and I doubt if it would cut any ice with SQ Management that they should let the guys off their bond because they are not getting their S$7000 per month allowances.
Yes I too lost my crew bunk to the then Senior Minister on a Double Crew Long Haul Flight to Europe. I was called by crewing and asked if i minded giving it up and was told I could take a First Class seat for my rest instead.Rather than cut off my nose to spite my face I agreed as otherwise I would no doubt have been taken off the flight and given 5 days Standby and lose at least $2000 in productivty and allowances,even more if i was into overtime.
Despite what B744 Local says I do not want to fly just 45 hours a month and nor does anyone else I know.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Formerly resident of Knoteatingham
Posts: 957
Received 119 Likes
on
59 Posts
.....and lose at least $2000 in productivty and allowances,even more if i was into overtime.
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: home
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
GENGIS
You ( and others ) have made a comment that we came to SIAC with "our eyes wide open". (Tacitly implying that we should stop whining and get on with it.) How do you figure that? How could we possibly have known all the ramifications of this job without actually joining? I read and searched on PPrune and elsewhere for as much info as possible about this job for a full 8 months before I finally got the courage to come. Half the time on PPrune I was slaged off for not doing searches first when posting questions, or was dissed for my spelling and grammer. And it is a well known fact that half the info put out on this forum is bull****. And though the opinions of a few are important and to be respected, they hardly give one a complete picture. In addition, conflicting opinions were being expoused (is that a word? spelling police please correct). And of course, one's opinion depends a lot on his background, personal circumstances etc...There are many Captains here who think they have died and gone to heaven and a few who actually believe their manhood has matured now that they are "jumbo captains". Having previously worked for a company for 25 years that lived up to what they said and advertised made me very naive. I thought a world class outfit like SIA would do the same. Hindsight is 20/20.
B744local
Glad to see you have the courage to continue to contribute. A little confused: from you ungrateful beggars to sympathy for us poor guys. Which one is it? Do you have the courage to answer my questions a few pages back? PM me if you would rather not go public. I promise not to cut and paste. I don't agree that you represent the minority opinion of local mainline captains. Quite the contrary. You just have the cojones to post the prevailing opinion. The others are too paranoid about ending up in Changi P. Should I hold my breath?
You ( and others ) have made a comment that we came to SIAC with "our eyes wide open". (Tacitly implying that we should stop whining and get on with it.) How do you figure that? How could we possibly have known all the ramifications of this job without actually joining? I read and searched on PPrune and elsewhere for as much info as possible about this job for a full 8 months before I finally got the courage to come. Half the time on PPrune I was slaged off for not doing searches first when posting questions, or was dissed for my spelling and grammer. And it is a well known fact that half the info put out on this forum is bull****. And though the opinions of a few are important and to be respected, they hardly give one a complete picture. In addition, conflicting opinions were being expoused (is that a word? spelling police please correct). And of course, one's opinion depends a lot on his background, personal circumstances etc...There are many Captains here who think they have died and gone to heaven and a few who actually believe their manhood has matured now that they are "jumbo captains". Having previously worked for a company for 25 years that lived up to what they said and advertised made me very naive. I thought a world class outfit like SIA would do the same. Hindsight is 20/20.
B744local
Glad to see you have the courage to continue to contribute. A little confused: from you ungrateful beggars to sympathy for us poor guys. Which one is it? Do you have the courage to answer my questions a few pages back? PM me if you would rather not go public. I promise not to cut and paste. I don't agree that you represent the minority opinion of local mainline captains. Quite the contrary. You just have the cojones to post the prevailing opinion. The others are too paranoid about ending up in Changi P. Should I hold my breath?
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Away
Posts: 300
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Don't hold your breath.
I PM'd the man with a mea culpa, an apology and a promise to delete the offensive post.
To be fair, he has wound down, which is not necessarily because of my PM but welcome nonetheless.
We are stating facts; we are fairly pissed off at how we've been treated; we are actively pursuing other options, and I am about to express exactly how I feel about being grateful.
But not now.
I need to go back to bed for a while...
PS Your spelling's fine, but since you asked, the word is 'espoused', which is a doing-word or verb for adopting or embracing an idea or cause. Mate, you were on the money...
I PM'd the man with a mea culpa, an apology and a promise to delete the offensive post.
To be fair, he has wound down, which is not necessarily because of my PM but welcome nonetheless.
We are stating facts; we are fairly pissed off at how we've been treated; we are actively pursuing other options, and I am about to express exactly how I feel about being grateful.
But not now.
I need to go back to bed for a while...
PS Your spelling's fine, but since you asked, the word is 'espoused', which is a doing-word or verb for adopting or embracing an idea or cause. Mate, you were on the money...
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Above 30,000 ft
Posts: 215
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Portquarter:
<GENGIS
You ( and others ) have made a comment that we came to SIAC with "our eyes wide open". (Tacitly implying that we should stop whining and get on with it.) How do you figure that? How could we possibly have known all the ramifications of this job without actually joining? I read and searched on PPrune and elsewhere for as much info as possible about this job for a full 8 months before I finally got the courage to come. Half the time on PPrune I was slaged off for not doing searches first when posting questions, or was dissed for my spelling and grammer. And it is a well known fact that half the info put out on this forum is bull****. And though the opinions of a few are important and to be respected, they hardly give one a complete picture. >
You are quite right. There is no foolproof way to find out. And you are also correct in that not all of the posts here in PPRUNE are 100% accurate. The point i was trying to make is, an honest appraisal of what one could have learned through the forum - even to the extent of taking out 50% of what you read - would still have given a fairly gloomy picture of what SIA and by default SQC are really like to work for. Don't get me wrong - i am not implying that you stop whining. I am merely pointing out that there are consequences with our decisons which like it or not, we will have to live with. The writing, as i have said, was on the wall a long time (I dare say) before you guys came. It's just unfortunate that you did not read the signs correctly. Something "blinded" you; perhaps it was the prospect of a shiny 744F or being employed by this apparent "world class" outfit and caused you to miss the big picture, only to find out now that all the stuff that you read in PPRUNE prior to joining was correct. I am sorry for you, and i am only saying that now that you know the truth about this lot, it should make the next decision of yours easier - where to throw in your lot. I appreciate what Millerscourt said about being tied to a bond.... alas..... sigh
At the same time, there will almost certainly be other "prospective" SQC applicants in the same position as you were scouring PPRUNE and other threads for info on this company. It can only be hoped they don't now read your comments such as "And it is a well known fact that half the info put out on this forum is bull****" and make the same mistake as you did, of disbelieving the experience of others or taking this company at its words.
<GENGIS
You ( and others ) have made a comment that we came to SIAC with "our eyes wide open". (Tacitly implying that we should stop whining and get on with it.) How do you figure that? How could we possibly have known all the ramifications of this job without actually joining? I read and searched on PPrune and elsewhere for as much info as possible about this job for a full 8 months before I finally got the courage to come. Half the time on PPrune I was slaged off for not doing searches first when posting questions, or was dissed for my spelling and grammer. And it is a well known fact that half the info put out on this forum is bull****. And though the opinions of a few are important and to be respected, they hardly give one a complete picture. >
You are quite right. There is no foolproof way to find out. And you are also correct in that not all of the posts here in PPRUNE are 100% accurate. The point i was trying to make is, an honest appraisal of what one could have learned through the forum - even to the extent of taking out 50% of what you read - would still have given a fairly gloomy picture of what SIA and by default SQC are really like to work for. Don't get me wrong - i am not implying that you stop whining. I am merely pointing out that there are consequences with our decisons which like it or not, we will have to live with. The writing, as i have said, was on the wall a long time (I dare say) before you guys came. It's just unfortunate that you did not read the signs correctly. Something "blinded" you; perhaps it was the prospect of a shiny 744F or being employed by this apparent "world class" outfit and caused you to miss the big picture, only to find out now that all the stuff that you read in PPRUNE prior to joining was correct. I am sorry for you, and i am only saying that now that you know the truth about this lot, it should make the next decision of yours easier - where to throw in your lot. I appreciate what Millerscourt said about being tied to a bond.... alas..... sigh
At the same time, there will almost certainly be other "prospective" SQC applicants in the same position as you were scouring PPRUNE and other threads for info on this company. It can only be hoped they don't now read your comments such as "And it is a well known fact that half the info put out on this forum is bull****" and make the same mistake as you did, of disbelieving the experience of others or taking this company at its words.
Last edited by gengis; 10th Feb 2007 at 01:38.