R/T status in KL FIR
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R/T status in KL FIR
The ATC Union is conducting the reception status of our transmitters within the KL FIR. We would like to have your Very Honest Opinions about our radio transmissions. We would be very happy to receive your feedbacks/suggestions with regards to this matter. The ATCers have been voicing their unhappiness about the reception status by pilots to the Union. We are currently using 132.8/132.6/123.75/124.2/119.45/126.1/126.0/118.5/118.8/118.2/121.9 etc.These are some of the freq available at Subang and KLIA. This does not include the other stations. If u do have a problem, do let us know. Thank you all for your very honest answers. Secretary, Civil Aviation Air Traffic Control Services Union.
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Thanks for allowing us to input on ATC RT. I do find when flying eastbound that 132.6 transmission gets really bad. It may be the range or the position of the antennae but anytime the aircraft goes above FL150 to FL250, transmissions become grabbled and sketchy, sometimes even cutting off altogether.
Regards
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For the past 4 months, I could hardly hear Lumper Control on 132.6 on airway M751 from PK to about 60 NM north of PK up to FL370. Sometimes, KL ATC transmission keep cutting in and out, and many times just a complete cut off. All other areas on 132.6 (except east of the Malaysian peninsula) and 132.8 sounds just fine to me.
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third attempt at a reply. not so brilliant...
would the atc union kindly look into the range of the kul atis towards the south china sea...seems really weak or blocked.
find many guys resulting to requesting runway in use from sin atc.
may i also urge the controllers to slow down the speed of delivery, find it pretty hard to comprehend at times, especially when it gets busy, resulting in numerous unnecessary and tedious repetitions of clearances. ironically that's the worst time to have to repeat anything. mind you, i'm local....
mobile phone interference can be experienced on 132.8 as we fly up north, speech does not sound like that of local language. personally suspect it sounds indonesian...can't be sure though, dialling,ring and busy tone can be made out pretty clearly. however it is not experienced all the time. when it does happen, it significantly reduces quality/readability of controllers transmissions.
hope to be of constructive info....
would the atc union kindly look into the range of the kul atis towards the south china sea...seems really weak or blocked.
find many guys resulting to requesting runway in use from sin atc.
may i also urge the controllers to slow down the speed of delivery, find it pretty hard to comprehend at times, especially when it gets busy, resulting in numerous unnecessary and tedious repetitions of clearances. ironically that's the worst time to have to repeat anything. mind you, i'm local....
mobile phone interference can be experienced on 132.8 as we fly up north, speech does not sound like that of local language. personally suspect it sounds indonesian...can't be sure though, dialling,ring and busy tone can be made out pretty clearly. however it is not experienced all the time. when it does happen, it significantly reduces quality/readability of controllers transmissions.
hope to be of constructive info....
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KUL ATC needs to be more professional in their RT transmission.
I do not think that it is poor equipment that is at fault but poor proper usage, that is the root cause.
I do not think that it is poor equipment that is at fault but poor proper usage, that is the root cause.
On 132.8 recently had what sounded like DTMF tones, someone using equipment like a radio phone patch. Brought it to the attention of controller, said telecom people had been informed for some time about this problem.
KL has some of the best controllers about when weather avoidance is required.
Sometimes a little trigger happy, not letting pilots to finish off reading back a clearance or instruction, blocking the frequency. Some of the speed reductions requested are unrealistic for arrival into WMKK.
As previously mentioned, VHF volmet stations on high terrain on to the north and south would help.
KL has some of the best controllers about when weather avoidance is required.
Sometimes a little trigger happy, not letting pilots to finish off reading back a clearance or instruction, blocking the frequency. Some of the speed reductions requested are unrealistic for arrival into WMKK.
As previously mentioned, VHF volmet stations on high terrain on to the north and south would help.
Some of the controllers may have their mics to close to their mouth. Their transmission come through with the whoosing sound of the air coming out from their mouth or nose which made their speech rather like a back ground noise. If they can place their mics about 2 cm from the corner of their mouth and not directly infront of it.
ATIS on 126.45 is rather short range from the east. The SZB ATIS is alot more range.
It seems that sector and approach controller are reluctant to give in to request many times. This makes them look like they are not competant at it. Eg:
a/c: "Malaysian xxx request heading xxx due weather"
atc: " stby"
silence for a long time after that.
Perhaps this is better,
a/c:" Malaysian xxx request heading xxx due weather"
atc:" Malaysian xxx,expect short delay due traffic"
At least the pilots know why.
Also, most controller didn't state the a/c call sign clear enough and it has to be stated in each and every transmission to avoid confussion. Without the confussion,less transmission is needed.
Not matter what, you guys are alot better than what the newspapar said.
ATIS on 126.45 is rather short range from the east. The SZB ATIS is alot more range.
It seems that sector and approach controller are reluctant to give in to request many times. This makes them look like they are not competant at it. Eg:
a/c: "Malaysian xxx request heading xxx due weather"
atc: " stby"
silence for a long time after that.
Perhaps this is better,
a/c:" Malaysian xxx request heading xxx due weather"
atc:" Malaysian xxx,expect short delay due traffic"
At least the pilots know why.
Also, most controller didn't state the a/c call sign clear enough and it has to be stated in each and every transmission to avoid confussion. Without the confussion,less transmission is needed.
Not matter what, you guys are alot better than what the newspapar said.
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Ive been flying around this region for a while now, and lately 132.8 has been having prob's with loads of background noise. It became so irritating that i told the controller off to get him to do something bout it. As for the other freq's, they have been ok.
132.6 experiences congestion during certain times of the day, its mainly due to the short area of control that they have between 14000ft and PK.
Over east malaysia the coverage is preety good.
At one time pilots used to sit down and talk to atc quite a bit, but i think it should be started again. If ure from Atc, why dont u get in touch with MAPA and maybe they could work out a dialogue. At the same time get jump seat travel to singapore and honkong to see how the guys do it there. Atc kul could learn alot from them.
Im sure your president Encik Remli could get in touch with them.
ciao.
132.6 experiences congestion during certain times of the day, its mainly due to the short area of control that they have between 14000ft and PK.
Over east malaysia the coverage is preety good.
At one time pilots used to sit down and talk to atc quite a bit, but i think it should be started again. If ure from Atc, why dont u get in touch with MAPA and maybe they could work out a dialogue. At the same time get jump seat travel to singapore and honkong to see how the guys do it there. Atc kul could learn alot from them.
Im sure your president Encik Remli could get in touch with them.
ciao.
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I'm a daily customer of KL ATC services and like to express my positive experience. Lumpur is one of the best services in the region. I never have problems with them, they are very clear to understand and technically the connection is working.
I fly out of SIN to Thai and Indonesian destinations.
Dani
I fly out of SIN to Thai and Indonesian destinations.
Dani
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R/T in KUL
The Rage_ tks old chap 4 the suggestion.SIN and HKG are out of our Fam Flt Destinations. DCA approves only to JKT,Baali,BKK,Ho Chi Min n Manila. Fellas who have been havent really learnt anything new to improve R/T since these destinations don't really seem to offer much as far as ATC is concerned. Once again tks 4 your input. will do something about that. cheers. Happy New Year to all.
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Re: R/T status in KL FIR
As a low level chappie I would just like to say that reception on Lumpur Information (126.1) in the KL area can be very difficult with a loud background howl. It occurs to me that this may be because there is a repeater north and one south but that they interfere with each other in the middle, i.e around KL. Anyway whatever the reason reception seems to improve as one moves away from KL.
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Re: R/T status in KL FIR
dear veloo
just out of curiosity, why is sin and hkg not approved?
i'm not surprised to hear that the fellas who've done the fam flights have not found it useful.....it's probably BECAUSE flights into sin and hkg are not done. i personally think it should be done into these two airports only. the others that you mentioned would only be good for self consolation purposes.
but seriously, i really think sin and hkg would be the two best destinations for fam flights, as i think these two would make the trip worth it.
just out of curiosity, why is sin and hkg not approved?
i'm not surprised to hear that the fellas who've done the fam flights have not found it useful.....it's probably BECAUSE flights into sin and hkg are not done. i personally think it should be done into these two airports only. the others that you mentioned would only be good for self consolation purposes.
but seriously, i really think sin and hkg would be the two best destinations for fam flights, as i think these two would make the trip worth it.
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Re: R/T status in KL FIR
Hi Jetrat, No idea man. Sometime ago MAS approved Munich,Sydney,HKG,Seoul n one more that I can't remember(probably Narita). All these were shelved(No idea by whom). Later regional destinations were approved but Sin n Hkg were out. What we ATCers at Lumpur really need to see n learn is peak hour management at airports where dual runway ops are practised. At least we don't have to keep them long on ground waiting for their departure. There is also too much of enroute holding during peak hours which is stressful for both pilot n controller. KLIA was designed to handle simoultaneous departure n landings. Years have passed by and we are still holding acft enroute b4 commencing approach into KLIA. Currently we are handling about 1K flts a day. I can't imagine if the flts go up to 2K a day. With the kind of reception we get on our side, any destination for a FAM Flt is a real welcome man. tks 4 tolerating us. cheers.
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Re: R/T status in KL FIR
veloo,
likewise with the tolerating thing. by the way, mh 737 is transitioning to new procedures at the moment, which means it'll most likely take a little longer for the guys to start taxying.(minimal though). may be relevant to the ground contollers, probably more so for stations like kch and bki for example, in case they're wondering.
how bout encouraging more controllers to this thread to share thoughts, since the teh tarik stall will be difficult to arrange.
likewise with the tolerating thing. by the way, mh 737 is transitioning to new procedures at the moment, which means it'll most likely take a little longer for the guys to start taxying.(minimal though). may be relevant to the ground contollers, probably more so for stations like kch and bki for example, in case they're wondering.
how bout encouraging more controllers to this thread to share thoughts, since the teh tarik stall will be difficult to arrange.
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Re: R/T status in KL FIR
I have actually posted this website address at the ATCC Subang. Some of my colleagues at KLIA are also surfing this website. As a matter of fact I was introduced to this website by a B777 Capt. I have learnt a lot since then and has actually helped me to provide a better ATC service. This taxyiing thing for the MH 737's is something new. Let me know more about it so that I can pass it on to KLIA and other airports. I have been on board the 737's about 6 times last month and the intercom from the cockpit to the cabin isn't very clear. As an Air Traffic Controller I can understand every bit but unfortunately my fellow pax were wondering what the cockpit crew was telling. It was muffled at times. Maybe your avionics people should take a look into it. It would be good to check out the reception status by asking the cabin crew whether the transmission was clear. Just a suggestion. (Are we still not allowed into the cockpit??) In a recent meeting with MAS, we were told about a new procedure that MAS is coming up within the next few months...something called Flight Following. This is especially for the wide body. Sounds good for ATCers manning the Clearence Delivery at Subang. Help us to help u guys.
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Re: R/T status in KL FIR
veloo,
did you mean the public address systen in the aeroplane? yes yes have to agree. it's a constant point in our operations. i too have heard many that i thought were less than impressive, anyways, far too many factors to this problem. yes, the policy at the moment is still no jumpseat, however i should think that it can be arranged for atc guys if done officially.
probably a call to the correct people would take care of that.
the mh 737 thing mainly now involves doing all take off preparations BEFORE taxy, eg. flaps selection, flight control checks, which would have been done during taxy previously. so maybe a minute or two extra till the onset of requesting taxy clearance.
.
did you mean the public address systen in the aeroplane? yes yes have to agree. it's a constant point in our operations. i too have heard many that i thought were less than impressive, anyways, far too many factors to this problem. yes, the policy at the moment is still no jumpseat, however i should think that it can be arranged for atc guys if done officially.
probably a call to the correct people would take care of that.
the mh 737 thing mainly now involves doing all take off preparations BEFORE taxy, eg. flaps selection, flight control checks, which would have been done during taxy previously. so maybe a minute or two extra till the onset of requesting taxy clearance.
.
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Re: R/T in KUL
Originally Posted by veloo maniam
The Rage_ tks old chap 4 the suggestion.SIN and HKG are out of our Fam Flt Destinations. DCA approves only to JKT,Baali,BKK,Ho Chi Min n Manila. Fellas who have been havent really learnt anything new to improve R/T since these destinations don't really seem to offer much as far as ATC is concerned. Once again tks 4 your input. will do something about that. cheers. Happy New Year to all.
Wonder if SIN is approved as well.
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Re: R/T status in KL FIR
Yes it's the public address system. I was on the A330 last month and the transmission was clear. It's the 737's. To say all 737's will be a sweeping statement but it so happened that the ones I was on board were not clear. A bit muffled. The idea is to get the message clearly over to the cabin. Pax cud only understand some words. Maybe u guys cud look into it. Tks too for the checks b4 taxyiing. This will keep the ground controllers BP at the same level. Will 4ward this to the Tower guys. Appreciate ur valuable inputs. About the cockpit visit: it's OK man..let the company make it's decision. I don't want to impose on the cockpit crew...but it will definitely help both parties if this policy is lifted..maybe u can speak to the right person n see what can be done BUT don't go out of your way. You guys are always welcome to the ATCC at Subang at any time. Let me now early. My No is 016-2312519
Re: R/T status in KL FIR
Veloo,
Is there a must to space a/cs 7 to 8nm on the approach? We are quite used to 4 to 5nm apart as 1 cleared the 1st high speed taxiway,the other is 1/2nm out and get the clearence to land in US. I find that reducing the space can put more plane on the ground faster.Whenever I catch up the a/c in front to about 6nm the tower will instruct to slow down in KLIA.
Is there a must to space a/cs 7 to 8nm on the approach? We are quite used to 4 to 5nm apart as 1 cleared the 1st high speed taxiway,the other is 1/2nm out and get the clearence to land in US. I find that reducing the space can put more plane on the ground faster.Whenever I catch up the a/c in front to about 6nm the tower will instruct to slow down in KLIA.
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Re: R/T status in KL FIR
7 - 8 nm spacing
Our current procedures require the following:
a) radar separation of 5 nm or wake turbulence separation whichever is greater; and
b) when the first aircraft crosses the threshold, the succeeding aircraft must be at least 5 nm from the threshold.
There are others in place when visibility goes below a certain value and so on but the above two are most significant.
When KLIA is operating on a segregated mode, most controllers aim for a 6-7 nm spacing on finals to achieve the requirements of para (b). Some do actually try and actually achieve a tighter spacing when wake turbulence is not an issue.
With traffic levels going up, it is only a matter of time that the spacing requirements will be reviewed.
Our current procedures require the following:
a) radar separation of 5 nm or wake turbulence separation whichever is greater; and
b) when the first aircraft crosses the threshold, the succeeding aircraft must be at least 5 nm from the threshold.
There are others in place when visibility goes below a certain value and so on but the above two are most significant.
When KLIA is operating on a segregated mode, most controllers aim for a 6-7 nm spacing on finals to achieve the requirements of para (b). Some do actually try and actually achieve a tighter spacing when wake turbulence is not an issue.
With traffic levels going up, it is only a matter of time that the spacing requirements will be reviewed.