R/T status in KL FIR
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Aviation Humor
AVIATION HUMOUR
2006
On a Southwest flight (SW has no assigned seating, you just sit where you want) passengers were apparently having a hard time choosing, when a flight attendant announced, "People, people we're not picking out furniture here, find a seat and get in it!"
On a Continental Flight with a very "senior" flight attendant crew, the pilot said, "Ladies and gentlemen, we've reached cruising altitude and will be turning down the cabin lights. This is for your comfort and to enhance the appearance of your flight attendants."
On landing, the stewardess said, "Please be sure to take all of your belongings If you're going to leave anything, please make sure it's something we'd like to have."
"There may be 50 ways to leave your lover, but there are only 4 ways out of this airplane"
"Thank you for flying Delta Business Express. We hope you enjoyed giving us the business as much as we enjoyed taking you for a ride."
As the plane landed and was coming to a stop at Ronald Reagan, a lone voice came over the loudspeaker: "Whoa, big fella. WHOA!"
After a particularly rough landing during thunderstorms in Memphis, a flight attendant on a Northwest flight announced, "Please take care when opening the overhead compartments because, after a landing like that, sure as hell everything has shifted."
From a Southwest Airlines employee: "Welcome aboard Southwest Flight 245 to Tampa To operate your seat belt, insert the metal tab into the buckle, and pull tight. It works just like every other seat belt; and, if you don't know how to operate one, you probably shouldn't be out in public unsupervised."
"In the event of a sudden loss of cabin pressure, masks will descend from the ceiling. Stop screaming, grab the mask, and pull it over your face. If you have a small child travelling with you, secure your mask before assisting with theirs. If you are travelling with more than one small child, pick your favourite."
Weather at our destination is 50 degrees with some broken clouds, but we'll try to have them fixed before we arrive. Thank you, and remember, nobody loves you, or your money, more than Southwest Airlines."
"Your seat cushions can be used for flotation; and, in the event of an emergency water landing, please paddle to shore and take them with our compliments."
"As you exit the plane, make sure to gather all of your belongings. Anything left behind will be distributed evenly among the flight attendants. Please do not leave children or spouses."
And from the pilot during his welcome message: "Delta Airlines is pleased to have some of the best flight attendants in the industry. Unfortunately, none of them are on this flight!"
Heard on Southwest Airlines just after a very hard landing in Salt Lake City: The flight attendant came on the intercom and said, "That was quite a bump, and I know what y'all are thinking. I'm here to tell you it wasn't the airline's fault, it wasn't the pilot's fault, it wasn't the flight attendant's fault, it was the asphalt."
Overheard on an American Airlines flight into Amarillo,Texas, on a particularly windy and bumpy day: During the final approach, the Captain was really having to fight it. After an extremely hard landing, the Flight Attendant said, "Ladies and Gentlemen, welcome to Amarillo. Please remain in your seats with your seat belts fastened while the Captain taxis what's left of our airplane to the gate!"
Another flight attendant's comment on a less than perfect landing: "We ask you to please remain seated as Captain Kangaroo bounces us to the terminal."
An airline pilot wrote that on this particular flight he had hammered his ship into the runway really hard. The airline had a policy which required the first officer to stand at the door while the passengers exited, smile, and give them a "Thanks for flying our airline." He said that, in light of his bad landing, he had a hard time looking the passengers in the eye, thinking that someone would have a smart comment. Finally everyone had gotten off except for a little old lady walking with a cane. She said, "Sir do you mind if I ask you a question?" "Why, no, Ma'am," said the pilot. What is it?" The little old lady said, "Did we land, or were we shot down?"
After a real crusher of a landing in Phoenix, the attendant came on with, "Ladies and Gentlemen, please remain in your seats until Capt. Crash and the Crew have brought the aircraft to a screeching halt against the gate and, once the tire smoke has cleared and the warning bells are silenced, we'll open the door and you can pick your way through the wreckage to the terminal."
Part of a flight attendant's arrival announcement: "We'd like to thank you folks for flying with us today. And, the next time you get the insane urge to go blasting through the skies in a pressurized metal tube, we hope you'll think of US Airways."
Heard on a Southwest Airline flight. "Ladies and gentlemen, if you wish to smoke, the smoking section on this airplane is on the wing and if you can light 'em, you can smoke 'em."
A plane was taking off from Kennedy Airport. After it reached a comfortable cruising altitude, the captain made an announcement over the intercom, "Ladies and gentlemen, this is your captain speaking. Welcome to Flight Number 293, non-stop from New York to Los Angeles. The weather ahead is good and, therefore, we should have a smooth and uneventful flight. Now sit back and relax. OH, MY GOD!" ----- Silence followed, and after a few minutes, the captain came back on the intercom and said, "Ladies and Gentlemen, I am so sorry if I scared you earlier. While I was talking to you, the flight attendant accidentally spilled a cup of hot coffee in my lap. You should see the front of my pants!" A passenger in Coach yelled, "That's nothing. You should see the back of mine!"
2006
On a Southwest flight (SW has no assigned seating, you just sit where you want) passengers were apparently having a hard time choosing, when a flight attendant announced, "People, people we're not picking out furniture here, find a seat and get in it!"
On a Continental Flight with a very "senior" flight attendant crew, the pilot said, "Ladies and gentlemen, we've reached cruising altitude and will be turning down the cabin lights. This is for your comfort and to enhance the appearance of your flight attendants."
On landing, the stewardess said, "Please be sure to take all of your belongings If you're going to leave anything, please make sure it's something we'd like to have."
"There may be 50 ways to leave your lover, but there are only 4 ways out of this airplane"
"Thank you for flying Delta Business Express. We hope you enjoyed giving us the business as much as we enjoyed taking you for a ride."
As the plane landed and was coming to a stop at Ronald Reagan, a lone voice came over the loudspeaker: "Whoa, big fella. WHOA!"
After a particularly rough landing during thunderstorms in Memphis, a flight attendant on a Northwest flight announced, "Please take care when opening the overhead compartments because, after a landing like that, sure as hell everything has shifted."
From a Southwest Airlines employee: "Welcome aboard Southwest Flight 245 to Tampa To operate your seat belt, insert the metal tab into the buckle, and pull tight. It works just like every other seat belt; and, if you don't know how to operate one, you probably shouldn't be out in public unsupervised."
"In the event of a sudden loss of cabin pressure, masks will descend from the ceiling. Stop screaming, grab the mask, and pull it over your face. If you have a small child travelling with you, secure your mask before assisting with theirs. If you are travelling with more than one small child, pick your favourite."
Weather at our destination is 50 degrees with some broken clouds, but we'll try to have them fixed before we arrive. Thank you, and remember, nobody loves you, or your money, more than Southwest Airlines."
"Your seat cushions can be used for flotation; and, in the event of an emergency water landing, please paddle to shore and take them with our compliments."
"As you exit the plane, make sure to gather all of your belongings. Anything left behind will be distributed evenly among the flight attendants. Please do not leave children or spouses."
And from the pilot during his welcome message: "Delta Airlines is pleased to have some of the best flight attendants in the industry. Unfortunately, none of them are on this flight!"
Heard on Southwest Airlines just after a very hard landing in Salt Lake City: The flight attendant came on the intercom and said, "That was quite a bump, and I know what y'all are thinking. I'm here to tell you it wasn't the airline's fault, it wasn't the pilot's fault, it wasn't the flight attendant's fault, it was the asphalt."
Overheard on an American Airlines flight into Amarillo,Texas, on a particularly windy and bumpy day: During the final approach, the Captain was really having to fight it. After an extremely hard landing, the Flight Attendant said, "Ladies and Gentlemen, welcome to Amarillo. Please remain in your seats with your seat belts fastened while the Captain taxis what's left of our airplane to the gate!"
Another flight attendant's comment on a less than perfect landing: "We ask you to please remain seated as Captain Kangaroo bounces us to the terminal."
An airline pilot wrote that on this particular flight he had hammered his ship into the runway really hard. The airline had a policy which required the first officer to stand at the door while the passengers exited, smile, and give them a "Thanks for flying our airline." He said that, in light of his bad landing, he had a hard time looking the passengers in the eye, thinking that someone would have a smart comment. Finally everyone had gotten off except for a little old lady walking with a cane. She said, "Sir do you mind if I ask you a question?" "Why, no, Ma'am," said the pilot. What is it?" The little old lady said, "Did we land, or were we shot down?"
After a real crusher of a landing in Phoenix, the attendant came on with, "Ladies and Gentlemen, please remain in your seats until Capt. Crash and the Crew have brought the aircraft to a screeching halt against the gate and, once the tire smoke has cleared and the warning bells are silenced, we'll open the door and you can pick your way through the wreckage to the terminal."
Part of a flight attendant's arrival announcement: "We'd like to thank you folks for flying with us today. And, the next time you get the insane urge to go blasting through the skies in a pressurized metal tube, we hope you'll think of US Airways."
Heard on a Southwest Airline flight. "Ladies and gentlemen, if you wish to smoke, the smoking section on this airplane is on the wing and if you can light 'em, you can smoke 'em."
A plane was taking off from Kennedy Airport. After it reached a comfortable cruising altitude, the captain made an announcement over the intercom, "Ladies and gentlemen, this is your captain speaking. Welcome to Flight Number 293, non-stop from New York to Los Angeles. The weather ahead is good and, therefore, we should have a smooth and uneventful flight. Now sit back and relax. OH, MY GOD!" ----- Silence followed, and after a few minutes, the captain came back on the intercom and said, "Ladies and Gentlemen, I am so sorry if I scared you earlier. While I was talking to you, the flight attendant accidentally spilled a cup of hot coffee in my lap. You should see the front of my pants!" A passenger in Coach yelled, "That's nothing. You should see the back of mine!"
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NYARTCC COMPUTERS DOWN
Here is the aritcile from Newsday, a Long Island news paper.
Long Island
Glitch delays flights
FAA computer software problem disrupts arrivals and departures at New York-area airports
BY JOSEPH MALLIA
STAFF WRITER
March 8, 2006
Arrivals and departures at New York-area airports were delayed by up to two hours for most of the day yesterday, after the Federal Aviation Administration's regional computer system in Ronkonkoma malfunctioned, an FAA spokesman said.
The system started rebooting - basically shutting itself down and restarting - again and again, he said.
The delays affected all flights to and from Kennedy, LaGuardia and Newark airports.
At 2:15 p.m. the computer system, located at Long Island MacArthur Airport in Ronkonkoma, started rebooting uncontrollably, Peters said. The FAA air traffic controllers halted all aircraft departures in the region for the next 23 minutes until a backup computer system went into service at 2:38 p.m., Peters said. That backup system's limited capabilities, however, led to continual delays through the afternoon and evening.
"We have not yet pinned down why the software problem occurred," Peters said. He said the FAA software, known as the Host Computer System, has had similar problems in the past.
For much of the afternoon and evening the FAA increased the distance between aircraft from the standard 5 miles to 15 miles. New York-bound flights from airports as far away as Philadelphia, Boston and Indianapolis were delayed.
The FAA's Ronkonkoma operation, known as New York Center, is expected to be operating normally by today, Peters said. Technicians overnight were to try to trace the source of the problems. The software that malfunctioned has been in use for several years, he said.
Long Island
Glitch delays flights
FAA computer software problem disrupts arrivals and departures at New York-area airports
BY JOSEPH MALLIA
STAFF WRITER
March 8, 2006
Arrivals and departures at New York-area airports were delayed by up to two hours for most of the day yesterday, after the Federal Aviation Administration's regional computer system in Ronkonkoma malfunctioned, an FAA spokesman said.
The system started rebooting - basically shutting itself down and restarting - again and again, he said.
The delays affected all flights to and from Kennedy, LaGuardia and Newark airports.
At 2:15 p.m. the computer system, located at Long Island MacArthur Airport in Ronkonkoma, started rebooting uncontrollably, Peters said. The FAA air traffic controllers halted all aircraft departures in the region for the next 23 minutes until a backup computer system went into service at 2:38 p.m., Peters said. That backup system's limited capabilities, however, led to continual delays through the afternoon and evening.
"We have not yet pinned down why the software problem occurred," Peters said. He said the FAA software, known as the Host Computer System, has had similar problems in the past.
For much of the afternoon and evening the FAA increased the distance between aircraft from the standard 5 miles to 15 miles. New York-bound flights from airports as far away as Philadelphia, Boston and Indianapolis were delayed.
The FAA's Ronkonkoma operation, known as New York Center, is expected to be operating normally by today, Peters said. Technicians overnight were to try to trace the source of the problems. The software that malfunctioned has been in use for several years, he said.
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High Risk Landings in IMC
Hi Flyers...wud like to know which airfields do u consider as a high risk category(within Malaysia only) as far as landings in bad weather and your reason for such an opinion. I wud like to compile such info and pass it to the Tower guys so that a better situational awareness environment will be prevalent in bad wx.Wud appreciate your suggestions.An eg wud be one that I have heard from a pilot. Qoute "Why is there no SPECI available when the weather has deteriorated since the METAR was transmitted" Unqoute.
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halo halo
very quiet lately. let's see,
kch: slippery surface, single ils therefore reluctance in 07 usage, tailwind landings common, heavy rains every other day,(unfortunately can't do much bout that), parallel taxiways that don't go all the way to the end. and another major threat i think is the vectoring/vor.dme 25 procedure, during ils outage, due to the min. vec. alt. against the min. faf alt. i remember bringing this up personally to our co. safety dept, then three days later there was the A310 incident.
very quiet lately. let's see,
kch: slippery surface, single ils therefore reluctance in 07 usage, tailwind landings common, heavy rains every other day,(unfortunately can't do much bout that), parallel taxiways that don't go all the way to the end. and another major threat i think is the vectoring/vor.dme 25 procedure, during ils outage, due to the min. vec. alt. against the min. faf alt. i remember bringing this up personally to our co. safety dept, then three days later there was the A310 incident.
Last edited by jetrat; 18th Mar 2006 at 02:07.
IPOH
Ipoh is a no no for me if weather is bad.MAB had patched up the runway recently.The runway become uneven and collect water. This patches of slippery portion prohibits the antiskid to work properly.This mean landing in a short,narrow,uneven,slippery runway with virtually no brakes and a missed approach procedure like a maze.No way for 20+ pax!
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Slippery runways
Halo Jetrat..quiet? yes but not sleeping. looking into other forums the world over and learning to improve self and other ATCers who want to improve. U mentioned that u personally brought up the KCH RWY conditions to your Safety Dept. What exactly happens after that? A bit curious...was there any follow up with the relevant authorities..like DCA or MAB? Were these matters discussed to prevent further incidents? Why are such issues not brought to the attention of operational ATCers? Isn't this all part of situation awareness? Just imagine a foreigner landing for the 1st time at such airports during bad weather and he/she doesn't even know the prevailing conditions of the runway. All the tower controller would mention is XXX cleared to land caution RWY surface is wet.The next thing we see is someones nose wheel is on the grass.Blame it all on the pilot.So whatever happened to prevention is better than cure? Isn't there something called "a contributing factor?" Isn't this what CRM is all about? Or is CRM only limited to within the cockpit? To me, I am part and parcel of every safe landing. I have to ensure that every aircraft under my control reaches the parking bay safely. This is my prayer. It works BOTHWAYS man. Let's speed up a bit in getting these thorny issues settled quickly. Only two airports so far?
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Hello Boy's,
Well it has been a little quiet here! Let me see how i may contribute to this airfeild thing.
KUL- No real major probs
PEN- Rwy 22 app has a very high mda and does get me going esp when there's wx arounnd.
JHB- center line lights will help
KUA- Get the air force guys to calibrate the wind reading, direction is fine but always under reading by 10kts, ive personally told them, but nothing done yet.
KBR- always exciting, now with the ILS coming on soon might help.
TGG- What can i say, app to rwy 22 at night is like landing on to a carrier at night, im sure the US navy would be proud of us here, (black hole effect)
AOR- rwy extensions have helped.
IPH- Nothing bigger than a F-50 should go in, period!
LGK- Rwy 03 get quite windy on the backside.
KCH- jetrat hit the the nail with that one
SBW- Waiting for the full rwy, but controlling a/c procedurally dosent help
BTU- one of the better airfeilds around
MYY- Center line lights
LBU- The POW's who built it , made it hard for us to land as well, always a cross wind.
BKI- Time to get a new parralel taxiway all the way to the end.
SDK- very slippery when wet
TWU- better than the last twu.
But generally almost all airfeilds need proper lighting's. Center line lights help a great deal at night in rain.
So when's the next teh tarik thing?
Well it has been a little quiet here! Let me see how i may contribute to this airfeild thing.
KUL- No real major probs
PEN- Rwy 22 app has a very high mda and does get me going esp when there's wx arounnd.
JHB- center line lights will help
KUA- Get the air force guys to calibrate the wind reading, direction is fine but always under reading by 10kts, ive personally told them, but nothing done yet.
KBR- always exciting, now with the ILS coming on soon might help.
TGG- What can i say, app to rwy 22 at night is like landing on to a carrier at night, im sure the US navy would be proud of us here, (black hole effect)
AOR- rwy extensions have helped.
IPH- Nothing bigger than a F-50 should go in, period!
LGK- Rwy 03 get quite windy on the backside.
KCH- jetrat hit the the nail with that one
SBW- Waiting for the full rwy, but controlling a/c procedurally dosent help
BTU- one of the better airfeilds around
MYY- Center line lights
LBU- The POW's who built it , made it hard for us to land as well, always a cross wind.
BKI- Time to get a new parralel taxiway all the way to the end.
SDK- very slippery when wet
TWU- better than the last twu.
But generally almost all airfeilds need proper lighting's. Center line lights help a great deal at night in rain.
So when's the next teh tarik thing?
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velloo....
sorry,...i really can't tell you what was done with the info then, years ago. however i know that when i mentioned it verbally to the boss then, it was not new, as that was actually after an incident that happened before. and, i was informed that they had already informed "dunno who" about it, etc.
but, nothing happened....although the 310 incident got the ils back immediately. one wonders. anyway all this is history. however, the risks are just as high now as it used to be then, when the ils is off. it's the problem of the min. vectoring altitude against the fif height difference. and all the other stuff put together. it's just that too many of the ingredients would be available for that perfect recipe for disaster.
and somehow, kch seems to be the perfect "oven" for it. the only silver lining to it, is that the runway extension ongoing, once completed, should, take one of the "ingredients" way,.....
ah, please,another ILS on the other side for our 3rd/4th? busy strip of tar would definitely help us all.
sorry,...i really can't tell you what was done with the info then, years ago. however i know that when i mentioned it verbally to the boss then, it was not new, as that was actually after an incident that happened before. and, i was informed that they had already informed "dunno who" about it, etc.
but, nothing happened....although the 310 incident got the ils back immediately. one wonders. anyway all this is history. however, the risks are just as high now as it used to be then, when the ils is off. it's the problem of the min. vectoring altitude against the fif height difference. and all the other stuff put together. it's just that too many of the ingredients would be available for that perfect recipe for disaster.
and somehow, kch seems to be the perfect "oven" for it. the only silver lining to it, is that the runway extension ongoing, once completed, should, take one of the "ingredients" way,.....
ah, please,another ILS on the other side for our 3rd/4th? busy strip of tar would definitely help us all.
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Risky runways
Hi flyers..tks 4 the inputs. will have a chat with the relevant guys n see how these thorny issues can be solved. I always wondered why our ILS's goes off in bad wx.like the newly installed one at SZB. It was OFF almost a month awaiting spare parts.Now its ok.Mind u it's brand new.
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Fuel Dumping
How much of fuel is dumped? Last night MH16 KUL-EHAM B744 was unable to retract her landing gears after t/off. Had to dump fuel over port klang b4 making an approach. Observed fuel dumping was in the region of about 50 mins. what must be the weight be for a safe landing. Need answers both in kg and time (fuel remaining). Why is that there is no need for ground assistance? Is it considered an emergency or not? tks 4 der answers.
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Cant tell u much abaout the triple. But a 747-400 on max t/o out of kl to europe usually about 394.5tons max t/o wt. If we had to come back, then max landing would be 285tons so u looking at 110tons of fuel to be dumped. Cant remember how long it would take but i think it would be close to an hour.
If the pilot deems it not to be serious then no need for assistance, in this case he prob had to come back but could only land after dumping fuel so that he could land within the stipulated wt which would be the authorised max landing wt.
Got a question, any chance u guys could get the number of track miles i would req when flying into sin from atc singapore? Coz we usually start our descent in kul FIR but when trasfered to sin we find ourselves very low due to their radar vectoring.
If the pilot deems it not to be serious then no need for assistance, in this case he prob had to come back but could only land after dumping fuel so that he could land within the stipulated wt which would be the authorised max landing wt.
Got a question, any chance u guys could get the number of track miles i would req when flying into sin from atc singapore? Coz we usually start our descent in kul FIR but when trasfered to sin we find ourselves very low due to their radar vectoring.
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Hi Veloomaniam.
Long time....sorry I haven't had much to contribute lately.
Anyway teh last question would best be answered by a 744 rated.....or used to be rated guy....for specifics.
Generally fuel dumping is an exercise to reduce your existing aircraft weight to a figure that is below the maximum landing weight.
The weight of a wide body on long haul will nearly always be above the max landing weight at takeoff. We of course plan to burn this fuel enroute to reach the destination with a landing weight below the max weight.
In the case of a " landing gear will not retract" situation, the flight will not be able to continue to the destination because the extra drag produced by these dangling dunlops will increase the fuel flow and cause you to run dry by Mumbai.....hmmmn. me thinks.....!
Therefore a return to KUL would be the best option.
That by itself poses another challenge:
Because of all the fuel you have on board.......you are now too heavy to land without posibily causing structural stress to the plane and other limits.
Solution: get lighter!.....dump either fuel or the customer!
If they opt for dumping fuel then there is a "fuel jettison" procedure. Think the rates differ from a/c to a/c.
There are certain areas disignated and certain heights to adhere to and be above for this ops.
This by itself can be done when you have the luxury of time, ie the "situation" with the flight does not warrant an immediate landing regardless the weight.
In the case of a landing gear stuck down..... thats good ....cause thats where I want it to be for a normal landing.....therefore...no emergency landing.....or assist required.
cont....guys.
Long time....sorry I haven't had much to contribute lately.
Anyway teh last question would best be answered by a 744 rated.....or used to be rated guy....for specifics.
Generally fuel dumping is an exercise to reduce your existing aircraft weight to a figure that is below the maximum landing weight.
The weight of a wide body on long haul will nearly always be above the max landing weight at takeoff. We of course plan to burn this fuel enroute to reach the destination with a landing weight below the max weight.
In the case of a " landing gear will not retract" situation, the flight will not be able to continue to the destination because the extra drag produced by these dangling dunlops will increase the fuel flow and cause you to run dry by Mumbai.....hmmmn. me thinks.....!
Therefore a return to KUL would be the best option.
That by itself poses another challenge:
Because of all the fuel you have on board.......you are now too heavy to land without posibily causing structural stress to the plane and other limits.
Solution: get lighter!.....dump either fuel or the customer!
If they opt for dumping fuel then there is a "fuel jettison" procedure. Think the rates differ from a/c to a/c.
There are certain areas disignated and certain heights to adhere to and be above for this ops.
This by itself can be done when you have the luxury of time, ie the "situation" with the flight does not warrant an immediate landing regardless the weight.
In the case of a landing gear stuck down..... thats good ....cause thats where I want it to be for a normal landing.....therefore...no emergency landing.....or assist required.
cont....guys.
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rage,
what i figured out which used to work pretty well when we used to operate all of the sin flights then, is a little difficult to describe. let's see if i can try draw this in your mind. take the CF fix, create a 30 degree and 5nm point, then that point, another thirty degrees off and 5nms, then another one.( thats for runway02). however, this planning allows them to reduce your track miles quite a bit, as we're tracking more less at a ninety degrees angle towards the runway track.
remind me to draw it the next time, it's quite interesting. then there's the part that they'll keep you at seven thousand feet min.till you past south of sj. if a particular danger area is active. can't say which one though. so, when i planned the fmc the way i described earlier, i found that it actually used to work out very well, but then the atc guys would then start asking me when i'd start my descent since it's so much later than the majority of traffic. what i used to do then, was to offer that info in advance.
tried the same thing with runway 20, but somehow i think it wasn't as consistent as 02? then again i have to say this is all NON confirmed stuff. let 's see if velloo can ask his compadre's what the track is like, so that we can plan for that nice constant descent at idle thrust. otherwise, i'll try call a friend at sq and see if he knows. ah, but all this was when only samko and nylon was used....
what i figured out which used to work pretty well when we used to operate all of the sin flights then, is a little difficult to describe. let's see if i can try draw this in your mind. take the CF fix, create a 30 degree and 5nm point, then that point, another thirty degrees off and 5nms, then another one.( thats for runway02). however, this planning allows them to reduce your track miles quite a bit, as we're tracking more less at a ninety degrees angle towards the runway track.
remind me to draw it the next time, it's quite interesting. then there's the part that they'll keep you at seven thousand feet min.till you past south of sj. if a particular danger area is active. can't say which one though. so, when i planned the fmc the way i described earlier, i found that it actually used to work out very well, but then the atc guys would then start asking me when i'd start my descent since it's so much later than the majority of traffic. what i used to do then, was to offer that info in advance.
tried the same thing with runway 20, but somehow i think it wasn't as consistent as 02? then again i have to say this is all NON confirmed stuff. let 's see if velloo can ask his compadre's what the track is like, so that we can plan for that nice constant descent at idle thrust. otherwise, i'll try call a friend at sq and see if he knows. ah, but all this was when only samko and nylon was used....
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Fuel dumping
Still a bit hazy on the fuel dumping procedures. Wud appreciate time reqd for fuel dumping for each type of acft. The reason is for ATC to know how long the fuel dumping will take place. The duration of fuel dumping is not mentioned unless asked but then again the crew is too busy attending to other urgent needs. At least we can plan the sequence. As far as ATC is concerned, we treat situations like fuel dumping as a possibility that might lead to an emergency. Thus the apprehension on the part of the ATCer. That's why they keep asking Q's like 'do u need any assistance' etc. Have to alert the Airport Fire Rescue Services and such. Tks in advance 4 der inputs from the various type rated guys.Finally how is fuel dumping done.
As for track miles avbl into Changi, we are able to give u up to SJ. We can do that by measuring the track miles avbl to SJ in the case of R02. Asking our counterparts at Changi can be a bit annoying as they too are busy. They may not even entertain us on such requests. All they will say is ,put the acft over to us. I hope the track miles to SJ will be helpful as R02 seems to be the most useable rwy these days.
As for risky runways, did talk to my good friend from airport stds at DCA n this is what I gathered. Might be helpful. If it isn't sorry about it.
PEN- the mda has been rectified.It was an error.it seems the mda was right over the rwy.
Centre line lights are not required for rwys which are CAT 1. This is an ICAO recommendation.
TGG- Have u guys tried asking the tower controllers to reduce the intensity? If u have n is still bright , let me know again.
IPH-nothing bigger than a F50. Time to talk to the producers of "Honey I shrunk the kids" or maybe it's a skills test for the 737s. US Navy will be proud to employ u.
SBW- Is it Sibu? If it is then a hill at the end of the rwy has to be removed which the builders or contractors haven't done yet.
KUA- I am working 2moro on 132.6. I will talk to the SATCO about the S/Wind readings.
As for the other airports, the message has been put across. Only time will answer.
Brianigham...dangling dunlops will increase the fuel flow and cause u to run dry by mumbai...Hmmm..look on the bright side brother...at least u can say hello to Aiswariya Rai
As for track miles avbl into Changi, we are able to give u up to SJ. We can do that by measuring the track miles avbl to SJ in the case of R02. Asking our counterparts at Changi can be a bit annoying as they too are busy. They may not even entertain us on such requests. All they will say is ,put the acft over to us. I hope the track miles to SJ will be helpful as R02 seems to be the most useable rwy these days.
As for risky runways, did talk to my good friend from airport stds at DCA n this is what I gathered. Might be helpful. If it isn't sorry about it.
PEN- the mda has been rectified.It was an error.it seems the mda was right over the rwy.
Centre line lights are not required for rwys which are CAT 1. This is an ICAO recommendation.
TGG- Have u guys tried asking the tower controllers to reduce the intensity? If u have n is still bright , let me know again.
IPH-nothing bigger than a F50. Time to talk to the producers of "Honey I shrunk the kids" or maybe it's a skills test for the 737s. US Navy will be proud to employ u.
SBW- Is it Sibu? If it is then a hill at the end of the rwy has to be removed which the builders or contractors haven't done yet.
KUA- I am working 2moro on 132.6. I will talk to the SATCO about the S/Wind readings.
As for the other airports, the message has been put across. Only time will answer.
Brianigham...dangling dunlops will increase the fuel flow and cause u to run dry by mumbai...Hmmm..look on the bright side brother...at least u can say hello to Aiswariya Rai
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FMS-how does it work
Hi flyers, just curious. how exactly does the FMS work? A couple of days ago I got irritated with a 737 who had just departed R32. Apparantly he was given a direct track to Sukat climb F300. by the Approach Controller. The Approach Controller took the easy way out by issuing a dct track not realising there is a reciprocal descending to F150 from the north.The Approach Controller will only see the tfc somewhere around DAKUS. As such on 1st ctc with 132.8 I instructed the acft to turn to AGOSA. However twice the pilot kept saying he's been given a dct track to SKT F300. Discussed this problem with another colleague who told me that the moment a direct track is given to a waypoint, the pilots wud select that particular waypoint, in this case SUKAT instead of AGOSA, thus deleting the initial waypoint AGOSA automatically from the FMS. I was told that the pilots have to manually select AGOSA in this case and that this takes time. I was told a heading wud be better to AGOSA. What say u. Is this true? Is this the reason even the pilots sound irritated? Pse advise. Are there any links whereby I can read up on the FMS so that I can properly educate all concerned, including myself.
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It does not take more than 3-5 sec's to select Agosa. Tell him due traffic, finnish!
Jetrat, would def like to hear the explaination that u have, well did sin over the last couple of days and the moment we contact them they put u on to a hdg of 150 and des FL150. And they take u all the way down to the south. I fig they do this coz its outside their 40nm 250kt speed zone, therefore u dont slow down till much later and only passing 10000'.
Jetrat, would def like to hear the explaination that u have, well did sin over the last couple of days and the moment we contact them they put u on to a hdg of 150 and des FL150. And they take u all the way down to the south. I fig they do this coz its outside their 40nm 250kt speed zone, therefore u dont slow down till much later and only passing 10000'.
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rage,
yes i noticed that too on the last couple of times i operated. the thought came to my mind then too, but i then figured it didn't make sense, cos all they need to tell you is that "speed restriction not in force" or something to that effect. so, i figure it's something else. obviously they do want you to make extra track miles. dunno? try shout out to some sin approach radar guys here at pprune. that'll clear the air.......
i'm guessing it's probably to separate 2 or three traffic in the vicinity all heading towards the south. prob the 1st will be given a heading of 110, the 2nd, 130 and then there's you on 150 or something. that's my wild guess.......
velloo,
it's true, that sukat would have disappeared from the page, and yes, it'd have to be manually entered, and the rest......however, i believe the reason they got irritated was not due to the manual typing of AGOSA, but more like it gave them the impression that the 2 controllers did not coordinate. i personnally have experienced these situations, and i'd be grumbling and mumbling too......
. and only now do i get the picture of why this scenario happens.
i would therefore suggest that in this case, you initiate the clearance with the words "due traffic".
it would avoid any confusion or doubts, and we would not question the clearance, and immediate action would be taken to turn towards agosa, unless of course there's weather, then i'd say so and wait for an alternative.
yes, i do agree, that in this particular eg. a heading clearance would be better, since it would further remove any doubts about the controllers actions.
yes i noticed that too on the last couple of times i operated. the thought came to my mind then too, but i then figured it didn't make sense, cos all they need to tell you is that "speed restriction not in force" or something to that effect. so, i figure it's something else. obviously they do want you to make extra track miles. dunno? try shout out to some sin approach radar guys here at pprune. that'll clear the air.......
i'm guessing it's probably to separate 2 or three traffic in the vicinity all heading towards the south. prob the 1st will be given a heading of 110, the 2nd, 130 and then there's you on 150 or something. that's my wild guess.......
velloo,
it's true, that sukat would have disappeared from the page, and yes, it'd have to be manually entered, and the rest......however, i believe the reason they got irritated was not due to the manual typing of AGOSA, but more like it gave them the impression that the 2 controllers did not coordinate. i personnally have experienced these situations, and i'd be grumbling and mumbling too......
. and only now do i get the picture of why this scenario happens.i would therefore suggest that in this case, you initiate the clearance with the words "due traffic".
it would avoid any confusion or doubts, and we would not question the clearance, and immediate action would be taken to turn towards agosa, unless of course there's weather, then i'd say so and wait for an alternative.
yes, i do agree, that in this particular eg. a heading clearance would be better, since it would further remove any doubts about the controllers actions.
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Turn due traffic
Yes Jetrat..it's bcos no coordination was effected. Mind u during peak hour, tfc gets airborne every 1.5 to 2 mins. Not only the Approach guy has to sort out the deps but also the arrivals. U wud agree that tfc has increased. KLIA opened in July 1998. By July 1999 the total movement was around 64,123 movements. Piece of cake at that time with all the latest and smooth functioning equippment. Middle of 2004 the tfc movement was 165,115 movements. Now on a busy day KLIA alone is handling about 500 movements on the average. The approach controller will only climb acft to F140. Anything higher wud require him/her to coordinate with Sector Controllers. This is when the short cut is done. No time to request for a higher or dct track. He may have tried calling the Sector Controller but the Sector Controller wud himself be busy to answer the direct line with Approach. MHxxx identified dct SKT climb F140 and then he's talking to someone else. With poor reception being the norm these days, one has to transmit no less than 3 times to get a message across. Mind u during the last two shifts I was totally unable to read acft north of VPG. TSE had to call me almost 7 times at KARMI. I can read him BUT he can't read me. Speedbird cud only contact 132.8 at Gunip when actually the Transfer of Communication point is at VAMPI. See, this is all adding to more coordination and transmission these days. With 165K movements (not including the overflts into n out of SIN) BP is always on a higher beat. There is a saying "Good Controllers will just fade away" BUT looks like we have to amend that now. "Good Controllers will just fade away b4 retirement age". We are running short of good radar controllers. Replacement is slow.We are actually not short of controllers.We are full of short controllers. What we actually lack is good radar rated guys with a good command of English.
Pilots will ask for a secondary freq. The only one we can provide is 125.1. For this freq the site is at SZB. Therefore it's range is limited. U can't use this to speak to acft north of VPG, which has crucial joining airways where A464/R325/P628 converge.These days we have to relay ATC clearances thru other aircraft. Though not often but is is vital for us. There was a day where a colleage was using 132.8 and 125.1 at the same time. Told him it was extreamely dangerous. Two acft will be transmitting at the same time. U won't know who is calling u. We had to put a stop to that. So there u are my friend, if u are grumbling about why those dudes down there did not coordinate, it's simply bcos one just didn't answer the line. However we cud still type in a dct SKT label. The Sector Controller wud know what the acft is going to do but it may still be not enough for std separation. Hence "track for AGOSA" comes in.
3-5secs to initiate AGOSA. Wow that's much faster than our dct lines being answered.
Pilots will ask for a secondary freq. The only one we can provide is 125.1. For this freq the site is at SZB. Therefore it's range is limited. U can't use this to speak to acft north of VPG, which has crucial joining airways where A464/R325/P628 converge.These days we have to relay ATC clearances thru other aircraft. Though not often but is is vital for us. There was a day where a colleage was using 132.8 and 125.1 at the same time. Told him it was extreamely dangerous. Two acft will be transmitting at the same time. U won't know who is calling u. We had to put a stop to that. So there u are my friend, if u are grumbling about why those dudes down there did not coordinate, it's simply bcos one just didn't answer the line. However we cud still type in a dct SKT label. The Sector Controller wud know what the acft is going to do but it may still be not enough for std separation. Hence "track for AGOSA" comes in.
3-5secs to initiate AGOSA. Wow that's much faster than our dct lines being answered.
If I may add to the direct track topic.
If the a/c is engaged with autopilot couple with the FMS,it would take a few more seconds for the autopilot to initiate a track change even it takes only 3~5 secs for the pilot to type A-G-O-S-A into the FMS.(ie: the FMS has to calculate the pilot's input,generate a track,then instruct the autopilot to fly that track)Thus,there will be a short moment that the pilot have to wait and see if the autopilot is gonna do what the FMS says after the input which non of the pilot would enjoy that few secs of 'wait and hope it work'. Whereas if a heading a issue together with a prefix 'DUE TRAFFIC', the pilot can immediately dial the heading and the autopilot can turn the a/c faster. Therefore,most pilots prefer heading.
As for SIN, SIN ATC often give a heading after ARAMA,typically 120 or more for 40 to 50nm then turn towards the centerline.Subject to traffic, ATC may give you more track miles( more room) for you to lose height.So, the higher you are,the longer you fly.If you are low enough,ATC often turn you in earlier.
If the a/c is engaged with autopilot couple with the FMS,it would take a few more seconds for the autopilot to initiate a track change even it takes only 3~5 secs for the pilot to type A-G-O-S-A into the FMS.(ie: the FMS has to calculate the pilot's input,generate a track,then instruct the autopilot to fly that track)Thus,there will be a short moment that the pilot have to wait and see if the autopilot is gonna do what the FMS says after the input which non of the pilot would enjoy that few secs of 'wait and hope it work'. Whereas if a heading a issue together with a prefix 'DUE TRAFFIC', the pilot can immediately dial the heading and the autopilot can turn the a/c faster. Therefore,most pilots prefer heading.
As for SIN, SIN ATC often give a heading after ARAMA,typically 120 or more for 40 to 50nm then turn towards the centerline.Subject to traffic, ATC may give you more track miles( more room) for you to lose height.So, the higher you are,the longer you fly.If you are low enough,ATC often turn you in earlier.