R/T status in KL FIR
Veloo and Chew,
Please accept my apologises for being harsh.I would not edit my previous post to show I'm sincere with my apologises.I was mad at the decision maker instead of you ATC guys in front of the radar screen.Sorry for venting it out at you guys.
I'm a strong supporter of MAPA,however,IMHO, having dicussions over a drink CANNOT be hold as a solid input that is strong enough to issue an AIC!!Unless the feedback is the official feedback from the management.If it is from management then I rest my case.
I know every ATCers try your best to accommdate us everyday.I appreciate it.This is why I'm frustrated seeing things going backwards.Veloo,don't you think spacing for a/c to depart should be by spacing the arrival a/c apart by distance instead of a set of fix speeds? What gap would it make if both arriving a/c maintain same speed as per the speed restrictions? Same gap space.But if the preceeding a/c is faster,second a/c slow down a touch a gap
is then created for a departure.Wouldn't it? This AIC would lead to a whole lots of a/c spending additional time in the TMA regardless if there is any departure or not.2 days back,I was told to maintain 260kts way back,that's the consequences of this AIC.
270kts at 12nm means he is at 250kts indicated airspeed,should be a touch slower especially knowing someone is in front.To lose height with that speed at that distance is also wrong.
IMHO,the best thing to do is to give speed instruction as of before and leave this AIC to rest.
Please accept my apologises for being harsh.I would not edit my previous post to show I'm sincere with my apologises.I was mad at the decision maker instead of you ATC guys in front of the radar screen.Sorry for venting it out at you guys.
I'm a strong supporter of MAPA,however,IMHO, having dicussions over a drink CANNOT be hold as a solid input that is strong enough to issue an AIC!!Unless the feedback is the official feedback from the management.If it is from management then I rest my case.
I know every ATCers try your best to accommdate us everyday.I appreciate it.This is why I'm frustrated seeing things going backwards.Veloo,don't you think spacing for a/c to depart should be by spacing the arrival a/c apart by distance instead of a set of fix speeds? What gap would it make if both arriving a/c maintain same speed as per the speed restrictions? Same gap space.But if the preceeding a/c is faster,second a/c slow down a touch a gap
is then created for a departure.Wouldn't it? This AIC would lead to a whole lots of a/c spending additional time in the TMA regardless if there is any departure or not.2 days back,I was told to maintain 260kts way back,that's the consequences of this AIC.
270kts at 12nm means he is at 250kts indicated airspeed,should be a touch slower especially knowing someone is in front.To lose height with that speed at that distance is also wrong.
IMHO,the best thing to do is to give speed instruction as of before and leave this AIC to rest.
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Final apch speeds
Hello again FL...it's ok brother..we ALL have our ups and downs. Anyway Chew will definitely look into this matter and get back to you via this forum. There was talk sometime last year to reduce the gap but nothing has come out of it. We'll see what can come out of this suggestion of yours. Thanks buddy.
Hello again Veloo.
could you pass on a request to the guys in KLIA tower please.
Ask then to get all the Air Asia crews to actually stop at the holding point line and not 40 feet back. We can not taxi behind them in anything bigger than a 737 when they do it.
Thanks
ACMS
could you pass on a request to the guys in KLIA tower please.
Ask then to get all the Air Asia crews to actually stop at the holding point line and not 40 feet back. We can not taxi behind them in anything bigger than a 737 when they do it.
Thanks
ACMS
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Holding point no point
ACMS..ok will advise KLIA guys..
Genting is ok and so is the back-up at SZB.
We have just opened a new sector. It is called
Sector 5. long awaited BUT eventually a reality now.
some teething problems here and there but all under
control. Now the 132.6 guy only handles VKN and below,
no more VKB n IGARI. Phew..what a relief..for us.
Genting is ok and so is the back-up at SZB.
We have just opened a new sector. It is called
Sector 5. long awaited BUT eventually a reality now.
some teething problems here and there but all under
control. Now the 132.6 guy only handles VKN and below,
no more VKB n IGARI. Phew..what a relief..for us.
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too close for comfort at holding point
Hi aviators..just spoke to my pal at KLIA. He told me that the acft are holding 40ft back is due to the rwy upgrading for big brother A380. What I understand is that there is a whole lot of info passed to you guys. I think it will up to Nov.
Veloo: wrong.............I watch these Air Asia aircraft sitting 40' back from the holding point line on a normal servicable runway. They then taxi forward over the line to lineup. No reason to hang back.
MH aircraft don't do it, and neither do we ( Cx )
I've seen it on 14L, 32R and at 14R. At both the full length and at intersections ( which is worse as they hang their ass onto the parallel taxiway )
It has absolutely nothing to do with runway upgrades for the 380 blunderbus.
But thanks for asking the boys in the tower.
Now could you correct their mistake.
MH aircraft don't do it, and neither do we ( Cx )
I've seen it on 14L, 32R and at 14R. At both the full length and at intersections ( which is worse as they hang their ass onto the parallel taxiway )
It has absolutely nothing to do with runway upgrades for the 380 blunderbus.
But thanks for asking the boys in the tower.
Now could you correct their mistake.
Bus20: hello, I assume you must be and Air Asia Pilot? Welcome to the thread at long last.
Mate I have been through KLIA around 30 times in the last few years and this is happening nearly everytime I go there. It's not one incident I'm sorry to say.
So please ask your crews to pull up to the line.
Thanks
ACMS.
Mate I have been through KLIA around 30 times in the last few years and this is happening nearly everytime I go there. It's not one incident I'm sorry to say.
So please ask your crews to pull up to the line.
Thanks
ACMS.
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Request descent
Hello again..something that has been troubling me and my fellow Controllers for quite awhile.why do pilots request for descent when they are aware of reciprocal traffic within 20nm or so? It irks me when such a request is made. Instead of getting irritated can someone throw some light as to why such a request is made? Ofcourse no Ctler would issue a descent clrce immediately.It will always be after crossing. But why guys, why a request at a critical moment?
I once had an acft approaching an initial cleared level due traffic and the pilot kept asking for further descent despite having an acft yet to cross him at a lower level. controllers have been murmuring about this issue under their breath.
How can we overcome such requests.I am posting this as it happened to me again last shift
I once had an acft approaching an initial cleared level due traffic and the pilot kept asking for further descent despite having an acft yet to cross him at a lower level. controllers have been murmuring about this issue under their breath.
How can we overcome such requests.I am posting this as it happened to me again last shift
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Hi Veloo, Long time no talk.
Your Question: why do we ask for descent right into our mates?
Answer: Not having enough of the " big picture" .
You will find that there are some pilots who can mentally figure out where the other 5 blokes are in the zone and some actually use the tcas now to see. But alas, we do have some amongst us who are still very closed. ie have very low situational awareness. This is also something very subjective and not meant to be "judgemental".
The " worry about my profile " above everything else is the factor. Most pilots who have had the exposure though......will develop this higher level of SA. ( again subjective la )
Sorry this is a bother, but U know what. Since it is highlighted, I think all of us here should put on our thinking hats and address this.
I will keep that in mind Veloo. thanks.
Your Question: why do we ask for descent right into our mates?
Answer: Not having enough of the " big picture" .
You will find that there are some pilots who can mentally figure out where the other 5 blokes are in the zone and some actually use the tcas now to see. But alas, we do have some amongst us who are still very closed. ie have very low situational awareness. This is also something very subjective and not meant to be "judgemental".The " worry about my profile " above everything else is the factor. Most pilots who have had the exposure though......will develop this higher level of SA. ( again subjective la )
Sorry this is a bother, but U know what. Since it is highlighted, I think all of us here should put on our thinking hats and address this.
I will keep that in mind Veloo. thanks.
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Vello, Hi to you and to all in here.
Pilots request for descend when they are approaching descend point and ready for descend. It is to let the controller know that we are approaching our descend point and to obtain the clearance to do so. If, there is a traffic below, I believe the controller could say " standby, due traffic below" or something like that. This happened in many places, not just in KUL. Sometime ATC gave a 20 degrees heading change to facilitate the descend (for separation with the opposite traffic below) or inform the pilot that he/she is number 2 (if the traffic below is tracking in the same direction). Speed reduction might help so as to keep the separation between them.
Sometime I could read the ATC mind but at times we need more info and perhaps could suggest/do something to help the ATC workload. If I get closer with the traffic below, I do ask ATc if speed reduction might help. And in most cases, ATC do agree with my suggestion. I help, you help me lah...
I have not done this for many years in MY airspace but have done this in the rest of the world. Many ATc appreciate it and also it let my job and his/her a lot easier.
Pilots request for descend when they are approaching descend point and ready for descend. It is to let the controller know that we are approaching our descend point and to obtain the clearance to do so. If, there is a traffic below, I believe the controller could say " standby, due traffic below" or something like that. This happened in many places, not just in KUL. Sometime ATC gave a 20 degrees heading change to facilitate the descend (for separation with the opposite traffic below) or inform the pilot that he/she is number 2 (if the traffic below is tracking in the same direction). Speed reduction might help so as to keep the separation between them.
Sometime I could read the ATC mind but at times we need more info and perhaps could suggest/do something to help the ATC workload. If I get closer with the traffic below, I do ask ATc if speed reduction might help. And in most cases, ATC do agree with my suggestion. I help, you help me lah...
I have not done this for many years in MY airspace but have done this in the rest of the world. Many ATc appreciate it and also it let my job and his/her a lot easier.
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Try learning from the Japs . . . .
I have a suggestion:
Why don't MAS give a passage and boarding to our ATC guys to visit New Tokyo (Narita) for a week or so. Have a holiday at Tokyo Disneyland folks for 3 days and work for 4 days, sitting in with the Narita guys and learn how they handle the buzz there.
I once told a new B744 Captain that the Controllers actually know our Flap Speeds and he turn to me with disbelief. After the we were given 3 speed reductions, he realised what I was saying was actually a fact. They study the pattern see:- MAS B744 out of KLAX gives an endurance, they actually arrive TYO after how many hours = fuel remaining + average payload + DOW = B744 min man spd, with F1, F5, F10 etc. Then Spd Lim Pt. (SLP) in force + Min r/w occupancy time (I have personally witnessed a North West B742 ordered to leave the r/w after 2 minutes on the r/w and not ready for t/o).
Dear brother controllers, it's your airspace, you make the planning and tell the pilots what to do, BUT you gotta learn about each and every plane that enters your space - Max speed, Min speed, (approximate aircraft weight from Flight Plan = Type + End + DOW + Pax).
We all in MAS knows about an Old Timer who got banned from flying to SYD because he disobeyed the height restriction. So summary absolute power governing an airspace must be accompanied with knowledge and efficiency.
No offense meant, let's all learn to better ourselves . . . Malaysia Boleh.
Why don't MAS give a passage and boarding to our ATC guys to visit New Tokyo (Narita) for a week or so. Have a holiday at Tokyo Disneyland folks for 3 days and work for 4 days, sitting in with the Narita guys and learn how they handle the buzz there.
I once told a new B744 Captain that the Controllers actually know our Flap Speeds and he turn to me with disbelief. After the we were given 3 speed reductions, he realised what I was saying was actually a fact. They study the pattern see:- MAS B744 out of KLAX gives an endurance, they actually arrive TYO after how many hours = fuel remaining + average payload + DOW = B744 min man spd, with F1, F5, F10 etc. Then Spd Lim Pt. (SLP) in force + Min r/w occupancy time (I have personally witnessed a North West B742 ordered to leave the r/w after 2 minutes on the r/w and not ready for t/o).
Dear brother controllers, it's your airspace, you make the planning and tell the pilots what to do, BUT you gotta learn about each and every plane that enters your space - Max speed, Min speed, (approximate aircraft weight from Flight Plan = Type + End + DOW + Pax).
We all in MAS knows about an Old Timer who got banned from flying to SYD because he disobeyed the height restriction. So summary absolute power governing an airspace must be accompanied with knowledge and efficiency.
No offense meant, let's all learn to better ourselves . . . Malaysia Boleh.
Merdeka: sorry but not true.
ATC don't need to know all the manoeuvre speeds for all the A/C in their airspace on approach. They have a pretty good idea what we need but.........
How many times have you been told to reduce to 190 kts, and 190 kts was about 5 kts too slow for Flap 1 so you had to take flap 5.
So by your account they should know exactly what speed I need for flap up through to 30 and for every landing wt for my 777,give me a break, these speeds can vary by 20kts.
Sometimes they get it right and it's just a fluke, nothing more.
They slow ya down to what they need for spacing.
What do you think they will do if a 747 is following a 737? use the 737 flap maneuvering speeds or the 747's? mmmm
"the 747 needs about 230 kts clean, so lets get the 737 to hold 230 kts as well"
They give you what they need, and if you need to take more flap that's your problem, not theirs.
And to suggest they should know our landing weights and work out the speeds?????????? you must be kidding? they don't need to know that.
ATC don't need to know all the manoeuvre speeds for all the A/C in their airspace on approach. They have a pretty good idea what we need but.........
How many times have you been told to reduce to 190 kts, and 190 kts was about 5 kts too slow for Flap 1 so you had to take flap 5.
So by your account they should know exactly what speed I need for flap up through to 30 and for every landing wt for my 777,give me a break, these speeds can vary by 20kts.
Sometimes they get it right and it's just a fluke, nothing more.
They slow ya down to what they need for spacing.
What do you think they will do if a 747 is following a 737? use the 737 flap maneuvering speeds or the 747's? mmmm
"the 747 needs about 230 kts clean, so lets get the 737 to hold 230 kts as well"
They give you what they need, and if you need to take more flap that's your problem, not theirs.
And to suggest they should know our landing weights and work out the speeds?????????? you must be kidding? they don't need to know that.
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Point noted
Thanks for the argument ACMS, I see your point. Actually when that happened, Narita was catering largely to 747's than later 777's and 330buses also operated there. All narrow bodied jets were operating in Haneda. Being KLIA handling so many types it would be quite messy to memorize all types and the differences between them plus the fact that the sector patterns are so varied.
Well thanks again for your correction and it was a suggestion, if not totally feasible, maybe partly . . .
PS, sorry never flew 777, 747 into TYO from LAX would have between 220 to 230 Min Man Flaps Up. (220 to 235 tons), but flew the 737's alot though and the 200's actually can adjust to 230kts easy and those babies can slow down quickly with Speed Brakes down to 500feet with full flaps (Limitations) and make the landing on R/W33 with 7,000 feet from KL NDB. I was quite irritated one day when I had to slow down to 180 knots from well before VBA for an ILS 14L (Captain's idea on my sector
) the controller actually help me by querying the Captain because he wanted us 220-230 till just before LOC intercept.
Well thanks again for your correction and it was a suggestion, if not totally feasible, maybe partly . . .
PS, sorry never flew 777, 747 into TYO from LAX would have between 220 to 230 Min Man Flaps Up. (220 to 235 tons), but flew the 737's alot though and the 200's actually can adjust to 230kts easy and those babies can slow down quickly with Speed Brakes down to 500feet with full flaps (Limitations) and make the landing on R/W33 with 7,000 feet from KL NDB. I was quite irritated one day when I had to slow down to 180 knots from well before VBA for an ILS 14L (Captain's idea on my sector
) the controller actually help me by querying the Captain because he wanted us 220-230 till just before LOC intercept.