SIA cadet pilot (Merged - Again!).

[davidwong]

Importance of A and O Levels?

Dear Sucessful Cadet Applicants,

QUESTION 1:

Anyone have C6 for Maths and Physics at O Levels got all the way until offer letter?

Anyone got in until offer letter just with Good O Levels and A Levels Results and is above age 28?

Anyone got a MASTER Degree but not good O and A Levels results got in until letter of offer?

MY OWN ANSWER:-
AGE: 28
VISION: Prefect

O Levels = A2 English, A1 Commerce, Maths and Physics = C6, B Chinese Language.

A Levels = Canadian Grade 13 , Average 74%, 6 units,
English 88%, Computing 92%, Algrabra 66%,
Chemistry 74%, Physics 65% % Calculus 51%.

Diploma = NCC in Computing* Not recognised cause not Polytechnic Diploma.
Degree = None.
Flying Exprience = 80 hours on Cessna 172N. PPL(A)

Interview : 1st Interview for the second time. I felt I did well as the Interviewer said he will put my application thru to HR but my results may hinder the selection but He will try anyway.

Sucessful till : 1st Interview only.

With the above I got only into 1st Interview, after which I was not able to go to the 2nd interview.

I suspect that my O Levels and A Levels results where not good enough? Am I right to assume so?


QUESTION 2:-

Person A
O Levels = A1 English, C6 Maths and C6 Pure Physics.
A Levels = ABBB (with Maths and Physics with GP)
A NTU Business Degree.

Person B
O Levels = A1 english, A1 for both Maths and Pure Physics.
A Levels = ABBB (with Mths and Physics with GP)

I assume that Person B will have a greater chance in being sucessful based on his O and A Levels as HR filters from bottom to up, 1st based on O Levels followed by A Levels.

Person A would have "lost" when they compare the O Levels results?

Do let me know about ur expriences via this format, that way we can gather some conclusion on how the filtering works.

AGE:
VISION:
O Levels Results:
A Levels Results:
Diploma?
Degree?
Masters?
Flying Exprience?
Interview: Which phase, How many time already? and how u felt u did?
Sucessful till phase ?

See u and hope to gather enough data so we can make some conclusion.

So far my conclusion based on 10 persons data I have collected so far suggest the following:-

Even if u have MASTERS the 1st filter is O LEVEL meaning that Person B will always get the job above Person A cause, at the 1st Filter, Person A his file is already thrown away.

Filter works this way:-

Compare all O Levels results first,
Then stage by Stage Upper qualifications,
Then Flying Exprience.

Example if all have all A's at O Levels then they will compare A Levels, if still All A's then they compare Degree, If still all got degree they factor in Flying Ex or Work Ex.

So At the first filter O Levels, anyone got a B got kick out lioa.

Person C = 1B at O Levels and A all the way till Masters.
Person D = All A's at O and A Levels and Degree but NO Masters.
Person D will get in first, based on O Levels first filter..

That's all folks ! So hope to see whether my Thoery is somewhat true or not...

[Soaring Dreamz]

Pre & Post Lasik Medical Records

Hi all, Im a aspiring pilot wannabe who went for lasik last year juz so that i can be a pilot. I went for my 1st interview on 17th June and they got back to me this week asking for a pre and post lasik medical report and a report on my suitability for employment as a pilot The problem is i did my lasik in Bangkok. Called Bangkok to ask for the pre-lasik records to be sent over ASAP and they kindly obliged. I thought of doing a post lasik check here in Singapore. What is required for the post lasik medical? What is the report on suitability for employment all about?

Anyone with a similar experience?

[DonJuan]

Hi David,

CADET PILOT (SINGAPORE CITIZENS, SINGAPORE PERMANENT RESIDENTS OR MALAYSIAN CITIZENS)

a) minimum 2 'A's and 2 'O's, including General Paper, in the GCE 'A' Level Examination (or its equivalent); or
b) minimum 2 Principal Passes (excluding the languages; Mathematics and Science subjects preferred) and 2 Subsidiary Passes in the STPM (or its equivalent); or
c) Polytechnic diploma; or
d) University degree

Click Here

As you can see above, the criteria listed states an 'OR' option and not 'AND' so it should not matter. Then again this are just minimum requirements...In the event of stiff competition then prehaps what you say might be true....Then again we would not know how SIA carry out it's selection process...

Hopefully some senior bro can shed some light here....

Soaring Dreamz check your PM.

[freaktrimmer]

david wong,

pal, as has been posted here before ... SIA lays some sort of emphasis on the O Levels .. reasons stated were .. O levels show how well rounded a person is, coz u had to be decent in all fields of study back then ...
but say, if u have a BS/MS .. it would be kinda specialized and restricted to a particular field of study and according to some doesnt show ur overall competence !
just my two cents worth !
dont lose hope and dont give up ... but then .. dont let time get outta hand
cheers,

FT

[billkill]

Actually what they want to see is an all-rounded individual. The first they look at is your academic qualifications, the degree and where you got your degree from. The chances of non-degree holders are very slim. Secondly, they would look at the consistency of your results, whether you have improved over the years or just kept constant. Thirdly, your ECA and activities that you participate in. They also look at the subject you took. If you are in the science field (medicine, sciences, engineering), you stand a pretty good chance. It shows that you can adapt to the scientific material and logic, which there are lots of when flying. O and A levels will only be judged upon to make sure you can handle the basics of pure science (shows how you can cope with basic science). A fellow pilot of mine retook his O levels, did not do very well, got into poly then into NTU engineering but still managed to clear and now he's happily flying.

Flying experience is a plus but not a main factor. If you have flying experience, good for you! It keeps you ahead of many others with no experience at all. It shows you do have the interest and willing to spend that amount of money on this interest. Those with PPL, you do have to produce your medical and such too. I went in without flying experience and got in because many others too don't have that. It's hard to get that in Singapore unless you have the time and money.

There are people who get in at 30 years old. I know a few who got in when they are 31-32 years old. One of them was a doctor. He finished his housemanship and realised that he hated working in that industry. Managed to get in at 31 years old.

For those who is going for the 1st interview...
Carry yourself well. That's the most important. I've heard many not being called back because they did not know basic manners. If you did not clear the first interview, don't give up hope. If you do get through the first interview, you already have one foot in. It's just your attitude and knowledge already.

Those applying, don't give up hope. Don't be nervous. Just go in there and have fun with the interviewers. (as in treat it like sharing of knowledge with them about yourself and flying and not treat it as if you are being interrogated). Be light-hearted, bring a good smile, and good luck!

[billkill]

I've had people asking me about the level of qualifications and saying that if they don't take diplomas/A-levels, they would not advertise as so. Just my 2 cents worth, that is just a minimum qualification level ...Nowadays, a O level failure can still get a degree from pte schools, other countries, etc. Therefore to cover themselves, if the degree is not recognised, they move down one level to see what you have and if you qualify. For eg. If i have a business degree from a private school and they don't recognise it. They will look for A levels or diploma. If I have a diploma and it's also not recognised, they will look at my O levels. It's to your benefit actually. But if you have a degree from say like NUS or NTU. Then it's on to the next step to weed out people. It all depends on the intake (# of people and # of candidates).

Dave,
For your case, you probably got the first interview due to your A level results and your experience in flying as your diploma is not recognised. But it might be because of the competitiveness, you were not taken into consideration for the 2nd interview. Try again if you are really serious, who knows.

For those with masters and such, it all depends on what sort of masters and from where. To be honest, MBA is nothing much as you can get that anywhere unless it's from some top university. Preferable to have masters in a scientific or mathematical field and it may work to your advantage.

Good luck all!

[Ripley]

Hi predator79, thanks for the encouragement... hopefully age is not an issue with SIA.

Not too sure about what u mention regarding company having links with each others... perhaps somebody here could advise u on this. What kind of bond are u serving for CAAS?

Anyway, after reading most of the post in this forum, seems like my chances of joining the company is just about as good as winning the lottery. Nevertheless, I'm still hopeful... and waiting for that email in my inbox.

[Paper Plane]

Since billkill is on this, i may as well ask. What is the general mood that is set by the interviewers? A strict and pressing environment or a friendly approachable feel? Interested to find out as the interviewee is most likely to reflect the mood of the interviewers.

Soaring dreamz, the post lasik medical you can get it done at SNEC or tan tock seng eye centre. Refraction test, acuity test, cornea thickness measurement are the main ones. They are exactly the same tests that you have undergone before you went for lasik. After the test is done, get the Dr to write a letter stating that your eye condition is good and has stablised.
By telling the Dr the purpose of your visit, he'll know exactly what to do. They certainly would have encountered such patients.Good luck with your interview!!

[herz22]

The first they look at is your academic qualifications, the degree and where you got your degree from. The chances of non-degree holders are very slim.

I have to disgree with you on the aobve point. The difference btw a 'O/A' level or Diploma as compared with a degree holder is 0.0002%.

It is at the end of the day, do you have the interest to be a pilot. Lets try a simple maths test, give yourself 5 mins to answer these questions(taken from http://www.geocities.com/khlim777_my...pilot1.htm#DoI)

1. Divide 4 metres by 5
2. If 21 litres of paint cover 7/8 of a wall, how much paint is needed to finish?
3. Of 250 employees, 170 are male, what percentage are female?
4. A 120.4cm rod is cut into three pieces. Each cut wastes 0.2cm, how long is each piece?
5. A 60cm wire is bent into a rectangle whose sides are twice the length of the ends. What is the area of the rectangle?
6. A circle with a diameter of 4cm is drawn containing a square whose corners just touch the circumference of the circle. What is the area of the square? (Square of half the diagonal (8cm))
7. 2500 bricks fill one lorry, how many brick in six lorries?

I would say most of the 60% pilots are non degree holders in the airline.

Like what you say that they need an all-rounded person, and i agree on that. They would want someone who has the passion for flying, knowledgeable, confident, friendly and sociable (so to know the stewardess ) During the interview, you have to express your passion that you want to be an AVIATOR and not here for the $$.

An Airline crew (incl pilots and cabin crew) does not have glam job like before. Nowadays ppl are very well-travelled and with the introduction of budget carriers more ppl can travel.

So expect short off days and lack of sleep yet performing at optimal level during work. No hoildays or weekends with your love ones. Personal safety when you are at overseas station. Loneliness (coz there is only you and the Captain).

If this is the job you are looking for before you are 60, convince them that you are the right person they are looking for.

Just my 0.02....

[billkill]

No doubt of course there is a large number of non degree holders. This is because previously, there weren't as many degree holders as in the present. But now, they do weed out by academic qualifications first and this is due to the large number of applicants. During my time, my batch were mostly diploma holders with only a couple holding degrees. And yes people with diplomas still do get in now and that will be due to other factors (interest, all-rounded individual, or even if your spouse is a current pilot with the company). The questions post is just part of a psychometric test and not testing how well you are academically but how in-depth you are with reasoning. If that measures academic ability, then I would have to say a Sec 1 kid would also qualify to be a pilot.

Interest plays a vital role as I have mentioned before. Academic qualifications will get you selected for the 1st interview and also taken into consideration at the later stage. Interests, capability, how amiable and sociable you are, are the factors considered during the interview. At the end of the day, for the interviews, still depends on whether the interviewers like you. There is no standard grading system on that so it's all up to the interviewers.
Just like any interview with any company, the person does not like you, no matter how well you present yourself, you won't pass.

I don't know about other airlines, but at SIA, we are given enough rest and enough time for sleep. And so that's up to you on how you make use of your rest time. If you are a party animal and get drained out during your rest period, then you will feel tired and stressed. It's normal to be away on weekends and holidays. Even your child's birthday, you are not spared. But that has been the case long time ago and I am sure aspiring pilots know what they are getting into. If you can't make the sacrifices, it ain't the job for you. Nothing comes for free.

To paperplane,
is up to you to set the mood, not the interviewers. If you are quiet and tense, the mood get solemn. And remember, you might not be the first one in line. If you are the last one, the interviewers may be exhausted and tired. Just the other day, a fellow colleague was complaining about the large number of applicants and the process of interviewing really wore him out. That's why bring your best smile. I think that's just the basics for any interview you go for, not just for SIA.

[DonJuan]

Hi Billkill,
Could you kindly advise on what to expect next once you have cleared medical. How many cadets does it take usually to form a batch and kick start OBS? Next are contract only offered once SIA have enought cadet to start a batch or it is randomly offered upon clearing medical? Do you have any idea when the next OBS intake likely to be?

[billkill]

Donjuan,

Once you have cleared medical, you have to wait for SIA to call you up. It depends. Recruitment is a on a rolling process. It happens all year around even though SIA advertises once or twice a year in the papers. It depends on the intake. SIA will have to look at the number of successful applicants before they book anything with OBS, be it Singapore or Malaysia. As for the next intake, I am not that sure as I do know the past month's intake is quite huge. OBS normally lasts for 3 weeks. What to expect at OBS? I don't know what say about it, just that it's an opportunity to make friends and have fun. Well, I did have lots of fun at mine long time ago. Contracts are offered depending on the available slots. SIA has cargo and silkair too. It's just like NS posting. You never know as it's to the discretion of the company. So I can't tell you much here. It all ranges. When you have gotten through...there's nothing much surprising already.

[predator79]

Billkill.. beside academic results, how about NS status. From those pilots whom i know, they are mostly officers from SAF or police inspectors.. is it really true that your national service vocation and rank plays a part in passing the first interview?

[billkill]

Predator 79,

NS vocation and rank does not matter at all. From my point of view, it is something that all guys in singapore has to go through. It is not a choice that is made, unlike academics and interests. For academics, you can choose not to study not to get a degree, can choose your course and such. For interests, you choose to take up avaiation and such. But in NS, most of the time you are just randomly posted to departments you know nuts about. During the interview, they want to know the choices you make and why and not where the govt posts or ranks you in NS. I guess from the pilots you know, most were officers before because rank has some association with academic qualifications and ECA and most of them go ahead to pursue a degree after NS. So it still boils back down to that. But it sure is good and beneficial if you had won an award or something before. I myself wasn't an officer in NS, neither was I a commando or such.

[Paper Plane]

Hello billkill,

Thank you for your advice!
You did mention that there's a large intake for the past month. May I ask, on what kind of yardstick is large?

Also, for the techincal questions posed during the interview, how in depth do the interviewers expect us to go?

I have sent in my application for the recruitment ad on the 12th Jul and have been looking forward to their reply. Getting all hyped up as I check my inbox daily...haha. I was thinking since this recruitment was posted on ad, perhaps the waiting procedure would be as other job applications. 2 to 3 weeks? Correct me if you may. Thank you.

Paper Plane

[herz22]

But now, they do weed out by academic qualifications first and this is due to the large number of applicants.

With the recent report on the shortage of pilots worldwide, why is the company only accepting degree holders applicants first? If an other paper qualification holders are to apply, will it be considered or just put aside?

If the company wants to consider degree holders first, shouldn't they raise the qualification requirements rather than spending time filtering out the non.

The questions post is just part of a psychometric test and not testing how well you are academically but how in-depth you are with reasoning. If that measures academic ability, then I would have to say a Sec 1 kid would also qualify to be a pilot.

The psychometric test is designed as you written is for reasoning, but I feel it is more to find out what kinda of personality the person is. What is there to reason if it is a right or wrong answer for Maths questions only?

I don't know about other airlines, but at SIA, we are given enough rest and enough time for sleep. And so that's up to you on how you make use of your rest time. If you are a party animal and get drained out during your rest period, then you will feel tired and stressed. It's normal to be away on weekends and holidays. Even your child's birthday, you are not spared. But that has been the case long time ago and I am sure aspiring pilots know what they are getting into. If you can't make the sacrifices, it ain't the job for you. Nothing comes for free.

The points I am trying to raise above are for the wannabes who are interested in the career as a flight crew. They should be make known that the sacrifices if they choose this as a life-long profession and I believe not many applicants are aware of that. These are negatives sides of the job and I feel that i should share with the rest.

To be able to fly as a flight crew is a wonderful career. Too many wannabes out there it could be a childhood dream. I guess the objective of this thread is to provide positive information to all wannabes. Who are preparing or maybe attending an interview tml.

I do not think you would not want to attend an interview tml and feeling that you will not qualify at all.

Cheers!

[tkoose]

dear donaldstan...

not sure what the sq phsyco. is but i can tell u that the mh one is basically a programme using a joystick and a set of foot pedals....and you need to keep a moving dot in a triangle/square....somethign like that. suspect it would be something similiar. air asia one was a flight simulator game equivalent.
its to basically asses hand eye coordination...

[billkill]

Paper plane,

Actually just the basic information is needed. Something that you can explain in a few sentences and not a long essay. It also depends on how you answer the questions. One question may lead to the next and thus becoming more in depth. If you do not know the answer, it's alright. It also tells how humble and honest you are by admitting that you don't know, instead of making up stuff.

By the way,
qualifications are used for weeding out purposes. As i have mentioned before, it's also based on competitiveness. If the batch of applicants consists mostly of dilpoma holders, then a diploma holder will stand a good chance ain't it.

The psychometric test is used to test your ability to reason. It does not only comprise of mathematical questions. It consists of comprehension, ability to distinguish sequences, shapes, diagrams, etc. It has been mentioned before. Please read previous posts by others.

I have mentioned earlier, why SIA includes O level and A level as one of their requirements. It is similar to the system some financial institutions too. Just to add to what I have mentioned earlier, it is also to cover the company. Piloting is a very specific profession. It requires lots of training and time to groom a pilot. When there's a lack of pilots in a company, the company has to plan fast and recruit fast in order not to have a shortage of pilots which will cost the company millions. If they were to raise and advertise the requirement for degree holders only, and when there's a shortage of pilots, with not enough qualified applicants, the company would then have to readvertise and change their requirements? This would be unfair to many who applied before who did not meet the degree holder requirement. People will make a big hoo haa about it. By including O level and A levels, selection can be done at the company's discretion and no one can say anything. Please read previous posts also.

I would say this thread is to prepare aspiring pilots for the first step and not provide just positive information, but also negative such that one can have a good judgement of both sides and prepare well and not to give people false hopes.

[herz22]

Taken from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychometric

Psychometrics is the field of study (connected to psychology and statistics) concerned with the measurement of "psychological" aspects of a person such as knowledge, skills, abilities, or personality. The field of Psychometrics is primarily concerned with differences between individuals and employs statistical tools such as normal distribution and factor analysis.

More recently psychometric theory has been used in measurement of personality, attitudes and beliefs, academic achievement, and in health related fields, to measure quality of life.

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Unless the during the tea party or panel interview, the interviewers want hear the reasons why the interviewees answer the particular question in that particular manner in the Psychometrics test. The maths part I agree is only one of the component of the test but definitely not the reasoning part you had state.
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Just question on weeding out...How would the HR handle the high influx of applications everyday yet differentiate degree or other paper applicants?

By saying that if you dun have degree you got a slim chance in applying, are you also discouraging other applicants from applying?

If you are a management pilot, would you discourage anyone from applying because they do not have a degree and you know that they do not stand a chance?

Even reality is cruel, the company has a open door policy for the applicants. Whoever fits the bill will get the job (out of 1000 applicants only 120 is selected in the interview) and most importantly the passion to fly.

Paper Plane,

During my time I waited for 2 months to 3 months for reply to the first interview.

Cheers

[Kohelet]

Heard that there is a course starting 8 Sep. Anyone got a offer on it?