SIA Cargo Hiring!!!! (merged)
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Glad birdie boy has cleared up the whole $SIN versus $US issue!!
He is correct! Believe me, if it WAS $US, then nobody other than your SAS colleagues would be talking to you on the flight deck or in any crew room!
I hear the SQ guys are extremely p****d off with constant pay cuts and maltreatment. Dont expect a friendly welcome at all, thats from LOCALS and EXPATS alike!
Good luck to all,whatever you decide!
He is correct! Believe me, if it WAS $US, then nobody other than your SAS colleagues would be talking to you on the flight deck or in any crew room!
I hear the SQ guys are extremely p****d off with constant pay cuts and maltreatment. Dont expect a friendly welcome at all, thats from LOCALS and EXPATS alike!
Good luck to all,whatever you decide!
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Birdieboy
"Any recommendations out there before I do something stupid?"
You bet! Don't, under any circumstances ever consider leaving SAS for SIA.
The salary scale you have been quoted is derisory and looks like that shortly to be forced on us bonded serfs (watch these pages as LKY has summoned the "unions" tomorrow, 5 April, to receive the tablets from the mountain) plus, as a matter of government policy, the S$ is being devalued by stealth, to boost export volume from the Republic.
You would be crazy (or stupid) to countenance joining SIA in the face of these circumstances.
"Any recommendations out there before I do something stupid?"
You bet! Don't, under any circumstances ever consider leaving SAS for SIA.
The salary scale you have been quoted is derisory and looks like that shortly to be forced on us bonded serfs (watch these pages as LKY has summoned the "unions" tomorrow, 5 April, to receive the tablets from the mountain) plus, as a matter of government policy, the S$ is being devalued by stealth, to boost export volume from the Republic.
You would be crazy (or stupid) to countenance joining SIA in the face of these circumstances.
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folks,
please bear in mind all that has been brought up in this forum. (also refer to sia pilots under political pressure). one of our union members has basically lost his livelihood for espousing his point of view and choice of lifestyle. whilst some, perhaps many may differ on the definition of the crime, i'm sure all will agree the punishment is far too extreme-but unfortunately befits the singaporean ethos.
consider your options very carefully. you may be taking away what little ammunition the locals have both in monetary negotiations as well as career prospects. the welcome you receive may be commensurate with these feelings.
best wishes
t
please bear in mind all that has been brought up in this forum. (also refer to sia pilots under political pressure). one of our union members has basically lost his livelihood for espousing his point of view and choice of lifestyle. whilst some, perhaps many may differ on the definition of the crime, i'm sure all will agree the punishment is far too extreme-but unfortunately befits the singaporean ethos.
consider your options very carefully. you may be taking away what little ammunition the locals have both in monetary negotiations as well as career prospects. the welcome you receive may be commensurate with these feelings.
best wishes
t
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Birdieboy
I thought that you and your SAS colleagues might like to read a great posting that accurately describes the way SIA have in the past and continue to this day to behave towards the head count (err – sorry – I mean valued professional staff).
Please be aware that exactly the same can happen to you and your colleagues if you sign up to the “contract” on offer. The whole thing can change (for the worse) at the whim of the Singapore Government and so is not worth the paper it is printed on.
I’m sure that the post’s author will not mind me reproducing his excellent piece.
wotwazat - 6 January 2004
The Facts about SQ!
The situation regarding the pay of SIA pilots has been so confused by 9/11, SARS and the Singapore governments pronouncements on the subject that there appears to be a need to get back to basics in the hope that a little common sense might prevail. I write this in the hope that a thread may develop that deals with facts and avoids descending into a slanging match.
Fact 1.
The Collective Agreement ( SIA pilots pay package) that expired on 14 Dec 2003 came in to effect on 15 Dec 2000. This agreement replaced the one that expired on 20 Nov 1998 and the pay scales where thus backdated to that time. The pay scales applicable to SIA pilots prior to the present pay cut are therefore just over five years old.
Fact 2.
Following 9/11 SIA cut staff pay in order to “avoid retrenchments and reduce losses”. The pay was never returned and the group made a profit in the region of $680,000,000. The pay cuts therefore increased a profit rather than reduced a loss.
Fact 3.
In response to the effects of SARS SIA sought massive reductions in salary that amounted to nearly 40% when all factors were taken in to account. They eventually achieved a reduction of 16.5% in the case of Captains but the reduction in take home pay was very much higher when reduced flying and no pay leave were added in to the equation.
Fact 4.
SIA made it’s first ever quarterly loss in Q1 of 2003. That loss was recouped by the end of Q2 (September). SIA will nevertheless continue to cut staff pay until the end of March whilst making very considerable profits and at a time when staff are working as hard as they have ever done.
Fact 5.
SIA will repay the deducted salary plus 15% if the end of year profit exceeds $600,000,000. That 15% of deducted salary is less than the bonus that would be paid under the normal bonus scheme.
Fact 6.
SIA have unilaterally abolished payments of 10% of basic salary into a provident scheme that affects approximately 1200 staff without replacing those contributions.
Fact 7.
The SIA pilots union (ALPAS) agreed to the measures taken under Facts 2 & 3 above under the guidance of their leadership. This was the major factor leading to the eventual vote of no confidence in that leadership.
Fact 8.
Much has been made of “performance related pay”. The pay structure in SIA already takes account of this. A pilot who does not fly at all in a month receives 48% less than one who flies the legal maximum number of hours. In addition, bonus payments account for a 28% difference in pay between a no profit year and a maximum bonus year. The target of 30% is thus already massively exceeded.
Fact 9.
ALPAS and the non-union pilots of SIA have made no threats against the Company.
Fact 10.
Government Ministers from the Senior Minister down have made repeated statements implying that the pilots of SIA are threatening the future of SIA and the economy of Singapore itself.
Those are enough facts to be going on with. A perusal of the above suggests to me that SIA have panicked in reaction to the novel experience of losing money for a few months against a background of making money for many years. Whilst cost saving measures were clearly required, the severity and duration of the pay cuts inflicted on the staff show scant regard for the supposed “Core Values” of SIA as well as the financial and spiritual welfare of staff and amount to a supreme demonstration of appalling Human Resource management.
The “confrontational pilots’ have seen a far from generous pay package (by international airline standards) that is already five years out of date eroded at every turn by a management that appears intent on destroying the very trust and dedication that a very good airline was built on. It would be a sad day if the pilots of SIA were not concerned by the direction being taken by the management of SIA apparently with the full support of the government.
Ministers have made much of the importance of SIA, Changi Airport and Singapore’s air hub status. In view of that importance it is time to stop the attacks on the goose that lays the golden egg. Perhaps the generals should return to the armed forces and one of the worlds great airlines should be run by airline professionals that can make the most of the fantastic advantages enjoyed by SIA. The staff are available to help continue the remarkable success of SIA but if the present attitude prevails they may not be available much longer.
SIA pilots are forbidden from discussing these matters by Company rules. Are there any white knights out there who can help to point out the injustice of this sad situation?
I thought that you and your SAS colleagues might like to read a great posting that accurately describes the way SIA have in the past and continue to this day to behave towards the head count (err – sorry – I mean valued professional staff).
Please be aware that exactly the same can happen to you and your colleagues if you sign up to the “contract” on offer. The whole thing can change (for the worse) at the whim of the Singapore Government and so is not worth the paper it is printed on.
I’m sure that the post’s author will not mind me reproducing his excellent piece.
wotwazat - 6 January 2004
The Facts about SQ!
The situation regarding the pay of SIA pilots has been so confused by 9/11, SARS and the Singapore governments pronouncements on the subject that there appears to be a need to get back to basics in the hope that a little common sense might prevail. I write this in the hope that a thread may develop that deals with facts and avoids descending into a slanging match.
Fact 1.
The Collective Agreement ( SIA pilots pay package) that expired on 14 Dec 2003 came in to effect on 15 Dec 2000. This agreement replaced the one that expired on 20 Nov 1998 and the pay scales where thus backdated to that time. The pay scales applicable to SIA pilots prior to the present pay cut are therefore just over five years old.
Fact 2.
Following 9/11 SIA cut staff pay in order to “avoid retrenchments and reduce losses”. The pay was never returned and the group made a profit in the region of $680,000,000. The pay cuts therefore increased a profit rather than reduced a loss.
Fact 3.
In response to the effects of SARS SIA sought massive reductions in salary that amounted to nearly 40% when all factors were taken in to account. They eventually achieved a reduction of 16.5% in the case of Captains but the reduction in take home pay was very much higher when reduced flying and no pay leave were added in to the equation.
Fact 4.
SIA made it’s first ever quarterly loss in Q1 of 2003. That loss was recouped by the end of Q2 (September). SIA will nevertheless continue to cut staff pay until the end of March whilst making very considerable profits and at a time when staff are working as hard as they have ever done.
Fact 5.
SIA will repay the deducted salary plus 15% if the end of year profit exceeds $600,000,000. That 15% of deducted salary is less than the bonus that would be paid under the normal bonus scheme.
Fact 6.
SIA have unilaterally abolished payments of 10% of basic salary into a provident scheme that affects approximately 1200 staff without replacing those contributions.
Fact 7.
The SIA pilots union (ALPAS) agreed to the measures taken under Facts 2 & 3 above under the guidance of their leadership. This was the major factor leading to the eventual vote of no confidence in that leadership.
Fact 8.
Much has been made of “performance related pay”. The pay structure in SIA already takes account of this. A pilot who does not fly at all in a month receives 48% less than one who flies the legal maximum number of hours. In addition, bonus payments account for a 28% difference in pay between a no profit year and a maximum bonus year. The target of 30% is thus already massively exceeded.
Fact 9.
ALPAS and the non-union pilots of SIA have made no threats against the Company.
Fact 10.
Government Ministers from the Senior Minister down have made repeated statements implying that the pilots of SIA are threatening the future of SIA and the economy of Singapore itself.
Those are enough facts to be going on with. A perusal of the above suggests to me that SIA have panicked in reaction to the novel experience of losing money for a few months against a background of making money for many years. Whilst cost saving measures were clearly required, the severity and duration of the pay cuts inflicted on the staff show scant regard for the supposed “Core Values” of SIA as well as the financial and spiritual welfare of staff and amount to a supreme demonstration of appalling Human Resource management.
The “confrontational pilots’ have seen a far from generous pay package (by international airline standards) that is already five years out of date eroded at every turn by a management that appears intent on destroying the very trust and dedication that a very good airline was built on. It would be a sad day if the pilots of SIA were not concerned by the direction being taken by the management of SIA apparently with the full support of the government.
Ministers have made much of the importance of SIA, Changi Airport and Singapore’s air hub status. In view of that importance it is time to stop the attacks on the goose that lays the golden egg. Perhaps the generals should return to the armed forces and one of the worlds great airlines should be run by airline professionals that can make the most of the fantastic advantages enjoyed by SIA. The staff are available to help continue the remarkable success of SIA but if the present attitude prevails they may not be available much longer.
SIA pilots are forbidden from discussing these matters by Company rules. Are there any white knights out there who can help to point out the injustice of this sad situation?
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Straits Times, 05.04.04
100 CAPTAINS, FIRST OFFICERS SHOW INTEREST
SIA, cargo arm recruiting pilots
By Karamjit Kaur
SINGAPORE Airlines (SIA) and its cargo arm are looking for experienced pilots and more than 100 captains and first officers from the SAS Group - the largest Nordic airline - are interested.
Interviews began a week ago and those picked will undergo a brief training stint before flying for the SIA group.
However, these pilots will not be on SIA's permanent payroll. It is understood that they will be with SIA on a four-year contract because SAS now has a surplus of pilots. They will return to their parent company when the contract expires.
The current recruitment drive comes about eight months after SIA axed 26 pilots, following its first-ever loss of $312 million in the three months from April to June last year.
SIA, which employs about 1,800 pilots, is looking to increase capacity, now that Sars has blown over and the turbulence that hit the air travel industry after the Iraq war has subsided.
Speaking to The Straits Times in a telephone interview from Denmark last Friday, Captain Per Schroeder, 46, SAS vice-president (operations), said the airline was approached by SIA Cargo, which is aiming to build its own pool of pilots.
SIA Cargo, which flies to 67 cities in 36 countries, became a separate company within the SIA group in July 2001. It is wholly owned by the parent company.
It operates a fleet of 13 Boeing 747-400 Freighter planes and markets the belly-hold space in SIA's passenger aircraft.
Capt Schroeder said: 'We have a surplus of pilots at this time, so when the offer came, we opened it up to all our pilots and more than 100 were interested.
'We are informed that the pilots who are chosen will fly for SIA Cargo and the parent company as well.
'It is a four-year contract at the end of which the pilots will return to us.'
Industry observers say such arrangements between airlines are common and a fuss-free way to add or cut the number of pilots to meet the current demand.
When contacted, SIA's spokesman said recruitment is an 'ongoing process', adding: 'We are recruiting a number of experienced pilots to meet the anticipated increase in services in the coming future.'
She did not want to comment on the deal with SAS.
Captain Mok Hin Choon, president of the Air Line Pilots Association-Singapore, said: 'We will be discussing the implications of the move with the management.'
SIA Cargo's spokesman declined to divulge details, saying only that the airline would take delivery of three more planes in the next few years and is now hiring to keep pace with its growing fleet.
Separately, the airline has advertised for experienced captains and first officers in last week's issue of Flight International, an aviation magazine.
100 CAPTAINS, FIRST OFFICERS SHOW INTEREST
SIA, cargo arm recruiting pilots
By Karamjit Kaur
SINGAPORE Airlines (SIA) and its cargo arm are looking for experienced pilots and more than 100 captains and first officers from the SAS Group - the largest Nordic airline - are interested.
Interviews began a week ago and those picked will undergo a brief training stint before flying for the SIA group.
However, these pilots will not be on SIA's permanent payroll. It is understood that they will be with SIA on a four-year contract because SAS now has a surplus of pilots. They will return to their parent company when the contract expires.
The current recruitment drive comes about eight months after SIA axed 26 pilots, following its first-ever loss of $312 million in the three months from April to June last year.
SIA, which employs about 1,800 pilots, is looking to increase capacity, now that Sars has blown over and the turbulence that hit the air travel industry after the Iraq war has subsided.
Speaking to The Straits Times in a telephone interview from Denmark last Friday, Captain Per Schroeder, 46, SAS vice-president (operations), said the airline was approached by SIA Cargo, which is aiming to build its own pool of pilots.
SIA Cargo, which flies to 67 cities in 36 countries, became a separate company within the SIA group in July 2001. It is wholly owned by the parent company.
It operates a fleet of 13 Boeing 747-400 Freighter planes and markets the belly-hold space in SIA's passenger aircraft.
Capt Schroeder said: 'We have a surplus of pilots at this time, so when the offer came, we opened it up to all our pilots and more than 100 were interested.
'We are informed that the pilots who are chosen will fly for SIA Cargo and the parent company as well.
'It is a four-year contract at the end of which the pilots will return to us.'
Industry observers say such arrangements between airlines are common and a fuss-free way to add or cut the number of pilots to meet the current demand.
When contacted, SIA's spokesman said recruitment is an 'ongoing process', adding: 'We are recruiting a number of experienced pilots to meet the anticipated increase in services in the coming future.'
She did not want to comment on the deal with SAS.
Captain Mok Hin Choon, president of the Air Line Pilots Association-Singapore, said: 'We will be discussing the implications of the move with the management.'
SIA Cargo's spokesman declined to divulge details, saying only that the airline would take delivery of three more planes in the next few years and is now hiring to keep pace with its growing fleet.
Separately, the airline has advertised for experienced captains and first officers in last week's issue of Flight International, an aviation magazine.
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So far the talks and discussions on contract SAS pilots coming over are much intense and most guys on line are waiting for some opportunities to vent out some anger and furstrations that the whole episode had caused. For the first time we heard some Instructors are real fed up and they'll form the first "welcoming party" for the poor SAS chaps...So, don't expect smiles and certainly DON'T try telling us how immature this behaviour is as I would like to see how far anyone will go if this happens in CX, BA or Qantas..
Now of course some will counter by saying it's none of their (SAS pilots) fault, I can respect that observation but right now.... quite a few "eager", "friendly" and "helpful" Capts and FOs are waiting anxiously.. knowing that in Singapore Inc, this scheme of getting surplus pilots with someone else subsidizing is DEFINITELY gonna happen (considering SQ gonna save quite a few cts on this) and it will be shafted down our throats once more...without doubts.. The darn thing about this country or SIA (no difference really..) is that NOBODY listens till something BAD happens!!
All the best to your pursue guys.. I'm out of this thread for good..
Now of course some will counter by saying it's none of their (SAS pilots) fault, I can respect that observation but right now.... quite a few "eager", "friendly" and "helpful" Capts and FOs are waiting anxiously.. knowing that in Singapore Inc, this scheme of getting surplus pilots with someone else subsidizing is DEFINITELY gonna happen (considering SQ gonna save quite a few cts on this) and it will be shafted down our throats once more...without doubts.. The darn thing about this country or SIA (no difference really..) is that NOBODY listens till something BAD happens!!
All the best to your pursue guys.. I'm out of this thread for good..
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hi,
it does not seem that the SAS pilots are offered anything, but what is offered in the latest Flight International Magazine.
if there is consensus among the pilots in SIA on this issue, I would expect the SIA union to take contact with the SAS pilot union, which is highly organized
if there are any individuals at SIA, who has any thoughts on SAS pilots coming at this time - please state them, Iam sure they will be of interest to potential SAS pilots wanting to go to SIA.
sincerely
it does not seem that the SAS pilots are offered anything, but what is offered in the latest Flight International Magazine.
if there is consensus among the pilots in SIA on this issue, I would expect the SIA union to take contact with the SAS pilot union, which is highly organized
if there are any individuals at SIA, who has any thoughts on SAS pilots coming at this time - please state them, Iam sure they will be of interest to potential SAS pilots wanting to go to SIA.
sincerely
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Hey Scandi, what would you do if the situation was reversed? Welcome those who help make your salary cheap and life hell? I dont think so. Now truthfully. what would you do? And dont go asking our union to contacct yours to help smoothern your way.
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Vote with your feet, Aussie! Don't sit on your arse and expect others to take responsibility for your situation.
After a long read through this tread, I initially thought you guys have some serious issues with management, but after reading the usual (and predictable); "See you behind the PUB, mate!" post by crl, I now wonder if the problem lies with management or with (some) of the pilots. crl is without doubt another Glaviator from OZ with a God-given right to any pilot positions in the world. If only a fraction of what he says is true, management would be wise to put an unbiased observer in the sim for all assessment rides. I would hate to think the trainers have their own agenda when they fail candidates.
Apologies to the rest of you, this tread offer a lot of valuable information for those who consider a job with SIA/Cargo.
After a long read through this tread, I initially thought you guys have some serious issues with management, but after reading the usual (and predictable); "See you behind the PUB, mate!" post by crl, I now wonder if the problem lies with management or with (some) of the pilots. crl is without doubt another Glaviator from OZ with a God-given right to any pilot positions in the world. If only a fraction of what he says is true, management would be wise to put an unbiased observer in the sim for all assessment rides. I would hate to think the trainers have their own agenda when they fail candidates.
Apologies to the rest of you, this tread offer a lot of valuable information for those who consider a job with SIA/Cargo.
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BYOD
I dont have an answer for you - because the scenario would be quite unlikely at SAS.
But I do think a lot of the SAS guys are seriously considering staying for good with SIA if offered -- their advantage is (agreed) that they might have a chance coming back to SAS.
I certainly dont expect SIA union to smoothen anyones way, no the opposite, but after potentially joining I do expect full support, which will be mutual --
it has been a rough environment in SAS too, lately --
appreciate you comment, thanks
I dont have an answer for you - because the scenario would be quite unlikely at SAS.
But I do think a lot of the SAS guys are seriously considering staying for good with SIA if offered -- their advantage is (agreed) that they might have a chance coming back to SAS.
I certainly dont expect SIA union to smoothen anyones way, no the opposite, but after potentially joining I do expect full support, which will be mutual --
it has been a rough environment in SAS too, lately --
appreciate you comment, thanks
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Goodbye, CRL
CRL is leaving this thread for good.
Leaving with derogative remarks of how the SIA instructors will be "out to get the SAS pilots".
You will hate this remark, CRL: The instructors at the SIA TC are generally proffesionals. As always, there may be a few that is a little "tougher" than others. Do you think that the SAS pilots are only used to "nice uncles" at the SAS Flight Academy?
Stop kidding yourself, the SAS pilots are professionals, they can take care of themselves. And they will be a welcome addition to the multinational/multicultural environment at SIA Cargo.
Goodbye CRL.
FS
PS. I like the main forum better, this Far East forum gets to focused on SIA bashing and negative speculations. There are several like that around the world. Do you want some link to the Swiss bashers, SAS bashers, United bashers, PPP forum (Permanent P*****off Pilots)??? Great entertainment, no other value.
Leaving with derogative remarks of how the SIA instructors will be "out to get the SAS pilots".
You will hate this remark, CRL: The instructors at the SIA TC are generally proffesionals. As always, there may be a few that is a little "tougher" than others. Do you think that the SAS pilots are only used to "nice uncles" at the SAS Flight Academy?
Stop kidding yourself, the SAS pilots are professionals, they can take care of themselves. And they will be a welcome addition to the multinational/multicultural environment at SIA Cargo.
Goodbye CRL.
FS
PS. I like the main forum better, this Far East forum gets to focused on SIA bashing and negative speculations. There are several like that around the world. Do you want some link to the Swiss bashers, SAS bashers, United bashers, PPP forum (Permanent P*****off Pilots)??? Great entertainment, no other value.
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Factseeker
You still don't get it do you!!
You say the SAS contingent will be a welcome addition to SIA. They will only be welcomed by the SQ Management as it lets them off the hook to find Pilots who otherwise are not prepared to join. No doubt SAS are guaranteeing the Bond for training instead of the Pilots footing the bill thus subsidizing the deal.
Why have SAS got such a huge surplus of Pilots???
If as you say thery are Cash Rich why not keep them on the Payroll or terminate their services and make them make their way in the real world. Perhaps the "Scandanavian" system of Welfare from birth to the grave would give them all nervous breakdowns??
SAS has been a protected Airline as have many in Europe owned by the "State" ie Taxpayers and their days are numbered unless they get their act together.
You still don't get it do you!!
You say the SAS contingent will be a welcome addition to SIA. They will only be welcomed by the SQ Management as it lets them off the hook to find Pilots who otherwise are not prepared to join. No doubt SAS are guaranteeing the Bond for training instead of the Pilots footing the bill thus subsidizing the deal.
Why have SAS got such a huge surplus of Pilots???
If as you say thery are Cash Rich why not keep them on the Payroll or terminate their services and make them make their way in the real world. Perhaps the "Scandanavian" system of Welfare from birth to the grave would give them all nervous breakdowns??
SAS has been a protected Airline as have many in Europe owned by the "State" ie Taxpayers and their days are numbered unless they get their act together.
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Millerscourt, here is a smile for you..!
Good morning, Millerscourt.
Not so, you are again out with your constant negativism. I have spoken to a several of my friends at SIA, non-management and even FOs. There is no problem specific for the SAS guys, they respect the airline and the standards. They fail to see what would be worse with these pilots than the "aglosaxon officers club members" tradiontally coming in hordes, demanding specific conditions and high pay.
So, Millerscourt, you are out of touch, speaking only to your complaining peers.
As to why SAS has a surplus of pilots. Easy to answer: New conditions, including longer work hours, more days of work per month, and lower pay. A new and agressive SAS is taking shape, and this will cause a temporary surplus of pilots.
And if you think these Scandinavians are the neverous kind and used to being pampered, join them in the horrific winter conditions in Northern Norway, totally dark, 1600 meters runways with gales in from the north west. Then see who will be the nervous one..!
I repeat myself: SAS and SIA is a good combination. Not only management-wise, but even pilot-wise. I think the Singaporeans and the Scandinavians will have a good time together, respectiing each other and their differences.
Try it, Millerscourt, and you may start smiling too. Heaven forbid..!
Not so, you are again out with your constant negativism. I have spoken to a several of my friends at SIA, non-management and even FOs. There is no problem specific for the SAS guys, they respect the airline and the standards. They fail to see what would be worse with these pilots than the "aglosaxon officers club members" tradiontally coming in hordes, demanding specific conditions and high pay.
So, Millerscourt, you are out of touch, speaking only to your complaining peers.
As to why SAS has a surplus of pilots. Easy to answer: New conditions, including longer work hours, more days of work per month, and lower pay. A new and agressive SAS is taking shape, and this will cause a temporary surplus of pilots.
And if you think these Scandinavians are the neverous kind and used to being pampered, join them in the horrific winter conditions in Northern Norway, totally dark, 1600 meters runways with gales in from the north west. Then see who will be the nervous one..!
I repeat myself: SAS and SIA is a good combination. Not only management-wise, but even pilot-wise. I think the Singaporeans and the Scandinavians will have a good time together, respectiing each other and their differences.
Try it, Millerscourt, and you may start smiling too. Heaven forbid..!
FS,
I'm not even sure you know the difference between SIA and SIA Freighters. I do hope you're one of those going to SIA Freighters because you are going to get a real surprise in the real world!!
I'm not even sure you know the difference between SIA and SIA Freighters. I do hope you're one of those going to SIA Freighters because you are going to get a real surprise in the real world!!
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Factseeker
My God you still don't get it!!!!
Why do you keep harping on about Anglo Saxons and Colonials???
The majority of Singapore Based ex pat Pilots are South American ,Indians etc etc. Very few Brits there these days.
Not sure what flying in Norway in the winter has anything to do with matters regarding the "Welfare Nanny" in Scandinavia
Seeing as how you keep going on about History Sweden has a long one of attacking it's neighbours and colonising Finland to boot. Again nothing whatsoever to do with the subject
The whole point is SQ. and a new Collective Agreement are being forced down the throats of it's Pilots by a Management affecting ALL Pilots not just the Anglo Saxon Colonialists. Thanks to this SAS deal all T&C's are being reduced.
My God you still don't get it!!!!
Why do you keep harping on about Anglo Saxons and Colonials???
The majority of Singapore Based ex pat Pilots are South American ,Indians etc etc. Very few Brits there these days.
Not sure what flying in Norway in the winter has anything to do with matters regarding the "Welfare Nanny" in Scandinavia
Seeing as how you keep going on about History Sweden has a long one of attacking it's neighbours and colonising Finland to boot. Again nothing whatsoever to do with the subject
The whole point is SQ. and a new Collective Agreement are being forced down the throats of it's Pilots by a Management affecting ALL Pilots not just the Anglo Saxon Colonialists. Thanks to this SAS deal all T&C's are being reduced.
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Millerscourt & BusyB - How about some facts..!
So, I do not know the difference between SIA and SIA Cargo.
Oh, I am sorry, but I do. It is not difficult if you actually are looking for facts, not sitting in your rocking chair dreaming up things.
I know the difference in aircraft, organization, terms & conditions, you name it. Down to the small differences in housing allowance schemes, child support, meal allowances etc. It is all available, in the open, if you look for it. And a thorough examination reveals that SIA Cargo is not bad at all, compared to a lot of carriers around, even compared to SIA passenger B777 drivers. But you surely do not care about that, do you? It would ruin your day..!
And how the arrival of the SAS pilots has reduced the T&C is only (again) wishful thinking by you, as the SIA Cargo T&Cs were freely available well before any talk of any SAS pilots to SIA Cargo. Gotchya..! Get your facts perfore pretending to be "experts".
Actually, you are experts: Expert rumour mongers, no substance in your information.
But thanks for excellent entertainment, and for the opportunity to correct some of the misinformation on this thread..!
FS
Oh, I am sorry, but I do. It is not difficult if you actually are looking for facts, not sitting in your rocking chair dreaming up things.
I know the difference in aircraft, organization, terms & conditions, you name it. Down to the small differences in housing allowance schemes, child support, meal allowances etc. It is all available, in the open, if you look for it. And a thorough examination reveals that SIA Cargo is not bad at all, compared to a lot of carriers around, even compared to SIA passenger B777 drivers. But you surely do not care about that, do you? It would ruin your day..!
And how the arrival of the SAS pilots has reduced the T&C is only (again) wishful thinking by you, as the SIA Cargo T&Cs were freely available well before any talk of any SAS pilots to SIA Cargo. Gotchya..! Get your facts perfore pretending to be "experts".
Actually, you are experts: Expert rumour mongers, no substance in your information.
But thanks for excellent entertainment, and for the opportunity to correct some of the misinformation on this thread..!
FS
Join Date: Apr 2002
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Factseeker,
You are not correcting any misinformation on this thread, only displaying your own arrogance bred of ignorance. What Millerscourt and others have been trying to explain for some time is that the SQ pilots have a real problem being shown any respect by a belligerent management and the arrival of a large group of pilots, especially sponsored pilots is simply going to allow the management more leverage against the current pilots, especially just ahead of a CA negotiation.
Your posts demonstrate the very attitude that the present employees are most afraid of ie "why should I care, I'm just going to have fun and leave when it suits". You show little or no sympathy for a fellow group of pilots, contempt would be more the word. Why don't you read the extensive posts on SQ again and have a rethink of your position, if you are capable of that.
You are not correcting any misinformation on this thread, only displaying your own arrogance bred of ignorance. What Millerscourt and others have been trying to explain for some time is that the SQ pilots have a real problem being shown any respect by a belligerent management and the arrival of a large group of pilots, especially sponsored pilots is simply going to allow the management more leverage against the current pilots, especially just ahead of a CA negotiation.
Your posts demonstrate the very attitude that the present employees are most afraid of ie "why should I care, I'm just going to have fun and leave when it suits". You show little or no sympathy for a fellow group of pilots, contempt would be more the word. Why don't you read the extensive posts on SQ again and have a rethink of your position, if you are capable of that.
Join Date: Apr 2004
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To be positive is BAD, BAD, or is it..?
It is interesting to see the reactions to someone who dare to oppose the "navel watching" of the SIA bashers.
Where do you read "have fun and just leave", and why do you bring in the CA and connect them with INDIVIDUAL SAS PILOTS going for a term with SIA Cargo.
And you have already dreamed up your "sponsoring" scheme, which I claim you have no facts of whatsoever.
This reminds me alittle of the Emirates pilot meeting thread. Its being kept alive by 4 - 5 pilots, being the same percentage that still believe Elvis is alive.
To my respected opponents: It is not wrong to dare to differ, it is not wrong to have a different opinon than all your words about "stinkcity" and "dictatorial management".
I happen not to agree, and so do many of my friends in SIA.
And I repeat my impression: Fine airline, good and well maintained fleet, nice pilot group, nice city to live in.
And I sense you cant stand that..!
But I should of course respect that you insist on having a monopoly for your version.
Look around, even on this Internet site, and you will find a fantastic number of airlines presented as being BAD, EVIL, LOWPAYING, IDOTS, etc.
To me, SIA Cargo looks like a good operation, and the SAS pilots will in all probability like it there. They are not funseekers, but have a reputation in Europe for being professional, serious workers.
FS
Where do you read "have fun and just leave", and why do you bring in the CA and connect them with INDIVIDUAL SAS PILOTS going for a term with SIA Cargo.
And you have already dreamed up your "sponsoring" scheme, which I claim you have no facts of whatsoever.
This reminds me alittle of the Emirates pilot meeting thread. Its being kept alive by 4 - 5 pilots, being the same percentage that still believe Elvis is alive.
To my respected opponents: It is not wrong to dare to differ, it is not wrong to have a different opinon than all your words about "stinkcity" and "dictatorial management".
I happen not to agree, and so do many of my friends in SIA.
And I repeat my impression: Fine airline, good and well maintained fleet, nice pilot group, nice city to live in.
And I sense you cant stand that..!
But I should of course respect that you insist on having a monopoly for your version.
Look around, even on this Internet site, and you will find a fantastic number of airlines presented as being BAD, EVIL, LOWPAYING, IDOTS, etc.
To me, SIA Cargo looks like a good operation, and the SAS pilots will in all probability like it there. They are not funseekers, but have a reputation in Europe for being professional, serious workers.
FS