SIA Cargo Hiring!!!! (merged)
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Thank you PPrune
It is a trying time for the aviation industry in the past few years and PPrune provides some ways for pilots to share information. Hopefully this information, in one way or another, help to better the pilot's communities around the world.
SIA is now going through a critical phase. Management are pulling out all the stops to downgrade Pilot's profession to that of mere Bus dirvers ( no pun intended ). The SAS deal is just one of their many ' arsenals ' to achieve this goal. Pilots ( regardless of seniority ) have for the first time in SIA's 40yrs history, started to vote with their feet. Isn't that telling something ???
I do not begrudge SAS pilots wanting to move to the Lion City, but as some of the posting indicated, resign from SAS then join SIA Cargo on the terms advertised in the Flight Magazine or the Web's Ts & Cs that F***Seeker so proudly pointed out. Then take what comes your way.... Then maybe..just maybe...some SIA pilots might respect you.
B Swan
Millerscourt
I applaud your stamina in engaging with someone like F***Seeker. A lot of adjectives that have been used to describe FS is valid and spot on. Ultimately you can only do so much in trying to crack the nutshell. So let's just let him stay in the cocoon that his ' many SIA friends ' have provided.
SIA is now going through a critical phase. Management are pulling out all the stops to downgrade Pilot's profession to that of mere Bus dirvers ( no pun intended ). The SAS deal is just one of their many ' arsenals ' to achieve this goal. Pilots ( regardless of seniority ) have for the first time in SIA's 40yrs history, started to vote with their feet. Isn't that telling something ???
I do not begrudge SAS pilots wanting to move to the Lion City, but as some of the posting indicated, resign from SAS then join SIA Cargo on the terms advertised in the Flight Magazine or the Web's Ts & Cs that F***Seeker so proudly pointed out. Then take what comes your way.... Then maybe..just maybe...some SIA pilots might respect you.
B Swan
Millerscourt
I applaud your stamina in engaging with someone like F***Seeker. A lot of adjectives that have been used to describe FS is valid and spot on. Ultimately you can only do so much in trying to crack the nutshell. So let's just let him stay in the cocoon that his ' many SIA friends ' have provided.
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BSWAN or BS***: Hitting below the belt..!
I would not do that, my father taught me not to hit below the belt (He said nothing about the "anglosaxon nose"). But to illustrate the tactics of changing the name of a poster to the use of stars, preferably with an F to start and 4 letters, I could not resist the tempation.
This is the kind of people in the SIA bashing exercise. Try to ridicule the person, avoid facts, get in some four letter implications, and you may win. Not so, pilots are not that stupid.
Again:
I have checked the facts: There is no SAS deal. There is no special SAS subisidy. Only serious, hardworking and professional SAS pilots being offered a term at SIA Cargo, as all you expats in SIA are serving. What is so special..? Or is it "I was here first?"
And, repeating my self after extensive fact seeking: I have found that SIA Cargo is a good and prestigous company, with a nice and well maintained fleet and competent management. Operated by highly qualified SIA pilots. With a reputation among customers second to none. Cooperating with LH and SK through WAW.
I know you hate this statement, it keeps you coming out of your foxholes with attacks, even though you have no substance.
And for your info, in order for you to aim better next time:
I am working for a major European airline (no, not the North). I am priveleged as a WB captain. I am not in management. I am not female. I am not gay. I have only re-taken my annual check once.
(I will leave my height, weight, skin color and my father's WW2 record until next posting.)
FS
This is the kind of people in the SIA bashing exercise. Try to ridicule the person, avoid facts, get in some four letter implications, and you may win. Not so, pilots are not that stupid.
Again:
I have checked the facts: There is no SAS deal. There is no special SAS subisidy. Only serious, hardworking and professional SAS pilots being offered a term at SIA Cargo, as all you expats in SIA are serving. What is so special..? Or is it "I was here first?"
And, repeating my self after extensive fact seeking: I have found that SIA Cargo is a good and prestigous company, with a nice and well maintained fleet and competent management. Operated by highly qualified SIA pilots. With a reputation among customers second to none. Cooperating with LH and SK through WAW.
I know you hate this statement, it keeps you coming out of your foxholes with attacks, even though you have no substance.
And for your info, in order for you to aim better next time:
I am working for a major European airline (no, not the North). I am priveleged as a WB captain. I am not in management. I am not female. I am not gay. I have only re-taken my annual check once.
(I will leave my height, weight, skin color and my father's WW2 record until next posting.)
FS
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The Millercourts of this World
So you thought that Millerscourt was a SIA person. Not so, he is in all the threads, all over the Internet. Basically, he is a (probably retired) pilot pewing his bad experiences all over the place.
Take this from the Emirates site, quote "Millerscourt":
You are quite correct in your assessment of Airline jobs in the Gulf/Middle East regettably. The T &C's are now so bad that those from the Western world should perhaps give it a miss unless for reasons quoted by Bigmouth.
Unquote.
And there are a lot more. Millerscourt is all over the place, telling you "how bad things are".
Rumor mongor, no substance. Put him in "junk mail"..!
FS
Another message "quote": Thanks FS, about time somebody like you got around, the PPPs were getting the upper hand.
PPP = Permanent Pissed-off Pilots. (Mostly anglosaxon expats..!)
Unquote.
A lot of pilots in SE Asia are actually sick and tired of the negative inputs, probably from the Anglo Saxon Officers Club. In AHK, SQ, CX, CAL and others: Leave us alone. We are happy, go home to GB (Or Ryanair, EasyJet etc. You will love their T&Cs, their working conditions).
And around the corner, you will find fish and chips. Forget StinkCity..! Not to mention HKG or BKK, which stinks even more..!
Good old London, here we come..!
Take this from the Emirates site, quote "Millerscourt":
You are quite correct in your assessment of Airline jobs in the Gulf/Middle East regettably. The T &C's are now so bad that those from the Western world should perhaps give it a miss unless for reasons quoted by Bigmouth.
Unquote.
And there are a lot more. Millerscourt is all over the place, telling you "how bad things are".
Rumor mongor, no substance. Put him in "junk mail"..!
FS
Another message "quote": Thanks FS, about time somebody like you got around, the PPPs were getting the upper hand.
PPP = Permanent Pissed-off Pilots. (Mostly anglosaxon expats..!)
Unquote.
A lot of pilots in SE Asia are actually sick and tired of the negative inputs, probably from the Anglo Saxon Officers Club. In AHK, SQ, CX, CAL and others: Leave us alone. We are happy, go home to GB (Or Ryanair, EasyJet etc. You will love their T&Cs, their working conditions).
And around the corner, you will find fish and chips. Forget StinkCity..! Not to mention HKG or BKK, which stinks even more..!
Good old London, here we come..!
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ManaAdaSystem,
Could you please explain how you came to the conclusion that all the negative comments must come from Australians?
You seem to be one of the confused persons around here that think the term racist can only be applied to Westerners.
Could you please explain how you came to the conclusion that all the negative comments must come from Australians?
You seem to be one of the confused persons around here that think the term racist can only be applied to Westerners.
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Wait a DOGGONE minute.....
Whether Millerscourt , BSwan are in SIA or not is besides the point...having read their threads I believe they have got the RIGHT perspective about the Management Styles and Motives....
Hard working or not SAS being here is a WIN-WIN for:
1. SAS Pilots- they get a 744 rating, Get the long COP's and only have to stay here for 4 years.
2. SAS - they can tell the shareholders that their pilots are in demand elsewhere so no RETRENCHMENTS.
3. SIA - Finally segregate Cargo from Main Fleet and as I believe only pay a low basic as in the contract as SAS will be topping up the pay. Economy tickets from SIA - no worries they still get SAS benefits.
As for the SIA pilots, LOSE yet again:
1. F/O's on B744 get less sectors as the pax fleet is winding down and only have few routes unlike years ago. This means longer time for Command.
2. The New CA that is still being negotiated might be jeapordised coz now the company does not fear locals leaving.
3.In the Past everytime ALPAS starts CA negotiations some bunch turn up to ruin the leaverage ...either some retired pensioned BA guys or Some downunder bankcrupt Airline Guys and now some possibly out of work SAS guys.
(to all the locals out there Looking in as a guest as I was until I couldn't stand it any longer).....I wonder if I or any asian could go to any of these Airlines IN DROVES say 100 and be accepted let alone be welcomed!...if the answer is probably NOT then what were you expecting here!!!
The Ignoramus that wrote about the comparison of a Capt and FO Harasssson is absolutely right on the scenario presented but has not added that alot of the non-local F/O's don't try to mix around with the local crew...they prefer the company of expat capts...so be it...we all have a choice ......don't cry when you get left out!!! You sound bitter...go see the doctor..take a chill pill!!!
Factseeker, when you said the SAS-SIA deal was all good by ALPAS then you were either seeking for info or just plain daft......have you checked???.....NO! If you were hoping someone within would read it and come out in this forum...you suceeded!!! But you are nothing like your name suggests...you are not seeking facts...just trying to sell yourself( hard working..professionals,we will enjoy, mutual benefit) none of the locals buy this!!!
As for Singapore ....everyone is entitled to their opinion... Clean and most importantly SAFE. (First child kidnapping ever and they got as far as 5 km.)...can you say that for the rest of the world (south pole??!!!).
Perfect Flying job in the world....I don't think there's such a thing anymore. On other forums there's an EK guy wanting to leave for Dragonair. Guys in SIA want to leave for EK or CAL. So it seems Dragonair s great until the next desease hits.
Happy Flying or Packing. I have no intention of wasting anymore time on this thread.
Whether Millerscourt , BSwan are in SIA or not is besides the point...having read their threads I believe they have got the RIGHT perspective about the Management Styles and Motives....
Hard working or not SAS being here is a WIN-WIN for:
1. SAS Pilots- they get a 744 rating, Get the long COP's and only have to stay here for 4 years.
2. SAS - they can tell the shareholders that their pilots are in demand elsewhere so no RETRENCHMENTS.
3. SIA - Finally segregate Cargo from Main Fleet and as I believe only pay a low basic as in the contract as SAS will be topping up the pay. Economy tickets from SIA - no worries they still get SAS benefits.
As for the SIA pilots, LOSE yet again:
1. F/O's on B744 get less sectors as the pax fleet is winding down and only have few routes unlike years ago. This means longer time for Command.
2. The New CA that is still being negotiated might be jeapordised coz now the company does not fear locals leaving.
3.In the Past everytime ALPAS starts CA negotiations some bunch turn up to ruin the leaverage ...either some retired pensioned BA guys or Some downunder bankcrupt Airline Guys and now some possibly out of work SAS guys.
(to all the locals out there Looking in as a guest as I was until I couldn't stand it any longer).....I wonder if I or any asian could go to any of these Airlines IN DROVES say 100 and be accepted let alone be welcomed!...if the answer is probably NOT then what were you expecting here!!!
The Ignoramus that wrote about the comparison of a Capt and FO Harasssson is absolutely right on the scenario presented but has not added that alot of the non-local F/O's don't try to mix around with the local crew...they prefer the company of expat capts...so be it...we all have a choice ......don't cry when you get left out!!! You sound bitter...go see the doctor..take a chill pill!!!
Factseeker, when you said the SAS-SIA deal was all good by ALPAS then you were either seeking for info or just plain daft......have you checked???.....NO! If you were hoping someone within would read it and come out in this forum...you suceeded!!! But you are nothing like your name suggests...you are not seeking facts...just trying to sell yourself( hard working..professionals,we will enjoy, mutual benefit) none of the locals buy this!!!
As for Singapore ....everyone is entitled to their opinion... Clean and most importantly SAFE. (First child kidnapping ever and they got as far as 5 km.)...can you say that for the rest of the world (south pole??!!!).
Perfect Flying job in the world....I don't think there's such a thing anymore. On other forums there's an EK guy wanting to leave for Dragonair. Guys in SIA want to leave for EK or CAL. So it seems Dragonair s great until the next desease hits.
Happy Flying or Packing. I have no intention of wasting anymore time on this thread.
Last edited by High Speed Descent; 13th Apr 2004 at 04:55.
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stable approach,
BYOD looks fairly Auzzie to me. crl sounds like one.
This is a most entertaining tread. We have non SIA pilots having a go at non SAS pilots over subsidizing that doesn't seem to exist. millerscourt is attacking the Scandinavian welfare system. A system now supporting some 250? SAS pilots axed last year. I presume some of them heading for Singapore?
Is there a recruitment ban for the Singaporean jobs?
I can understand the locals getting upset about expats joining, but what right does one expat have to deny another expat a job anywhere in the world?
Any truth to the newspaper article saying LKY will adjust the salaries back to the level pre SARS?
BYOD looks fairly Auzzie to me. crl sounds like one.
This is a most entertaining tread. We have non SIA pilots having a go at non SAS pilots over subsidizing that doesn't seem to exist. millerscourt is attacking the Scandinavian welfare system. A system now supporting some 250? SAS pilots axed last year. I presume some of them heading for Singapore?
Is there a recruitment ban for the Singaporean jobs?
I can understand the locals getting upset about expats joining, but what right does one expat have to deny another expat a job anywhere in the world?
Any truth to the newspaper article saying LKY will adjust the salaries back to the level pre SARS?
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FactSeeker Exposed!!!
Having read all of Factseekers comments and his profile, it dawned on me who he is. Why, it's Mr. Otto Lagerhus himself, the man responsible for the SAS-SIA Cargo deal! Everything fits: Former SAS Captain in Norway who spent many years in SAS management to later retire early and start his own consulting company, with SIA as a previous customer, no less. You can all check it out on www.lac.no
Sorry Otto for exposing you, but I thought it only fair to all the readers of this thread.
Off to the boatyard...
Rather Be Sailing
Sorry Otto for exposing you, but I thought it only fair to all the readers of this thread.
Off to the boatyard...
Rather Be Sailing
Last edited by RatherBeSailing; 13th Apr 2004 at 17:14.
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Another sailing by Sailing, keep it up..!
Rather be sailing performed an excellent speculation. I am now a consultant "responsible for the SIA - SIA Cargo deal..!". At least I am now up to 4 professions, still a few to go, I suspect..!
Because I have all the info..! Thanks, that's facts..!
Which actually all is available on the SAS Intranet for 2500 pilots..! At least that is what I am told, as I do not have the required token for SAS. But SAS pilots do.
You really impress me. We will never be able to expose RatherBeSailing, or is it really Mr. Rather Should Be Sailing of Dubai, who is sick of being an FO. Then we are smelling an emi Rat..!
Keep it up, the more you write, the more I am convinced that you actually are "no-fact". Why do you not create a few aliases, too. In order to "substantiate" your claims.
Actually I am the King of Sweden. And tomorrow I will be the Emperor, sailing up the Thames, and then heading south conquering Istanbul.
Great show, excellent entertainment. As said, keep it up. I shall..!
Because I have all the info..! Thanks, that's facts..!
Which actually all is available on the SAS Intranet for 2500 pilots..! At least that is what I am told, as I do not have the required token for SAS. But SAS pilots do.
You really impress me. We will never be able to expose RatherBeSailing, or is it really Mr. Rather Should Be Sailing of Dubai, who is sick of being an FO. Then we are smelling an emi Rat..!
Keep it up, the more you write, the more I am convinced that you actually are "no-fact". Why do you not create a few aliases, too. In order to "substantiate" your claims.
Actually I am the King of Sweden. And tomorrow I will be the Emperor, sailing up the Thames, and then heading south conquering Istanbul.
Great show, excellent entertainment. As said, keep it up. I shall..!
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RatherBeSailing
Thank you for the info. It is rightly fair to expose such a person.
HighSpeedDescent said it right and I quote
Factseeker, when you said the SAS-SIA deal was all good by ALPAS then you were either seeking for info or just plain daft......have you checked???.....NO! If you were hoping someone within would read it and come out in this forum...you suceeded!!! But you are nothing like your name suggests...you are not seeking facts...just trying to sell yourself( hard working..professionals,we will enjoy, mutual benefit) none of the locals buy this!!!
It says so much for a Company whose President could be so devious as to use this forum to sell his deals !!! I am sure with the wide readership of this forum, his clients ( present and future ) should take heed. We, the pilots worldwide will make sure that its known.
B Swan
Thank you for the info. It is rightly fair to expose such a person.
HighSpeedDescent said it right and I quote
Factseeker, when you said the SAS-SIA deal was all good by ALPAS then you were either seeking for info or just plain daft......have you checked???.....NO! If you were hoping someone within would read it and come out in this forum...you suceeded!!! But you are nothing like your name suggests...you are not seeking facts...just trying to sell yourself( hard working..professionals,we will enjoy, mutual benefit) none of the locals buy this!!!
It says so much for a Company whose President could be so devious as to use this forum to sell his deals !!! I am sure with the wide readership of this forum, his clients ( present and future ) should take heed. We, the pilots worldwide will make sure that its known.
B Swan
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Another title, this one better..!
I really love this.
My 5th title is on, I am now President.
And, for you intelligent observers (I hope there is a few).
Let this be a good demonstration how rumours and speculation try to conquer facts!
The facts remain, gentlemen (yes, I must say there are some exemptions..).
SAS pilots apply as individuals to SIA Cargo.
There seems to be no subsidies in this arrangements.
All SAS pilots apply from their own will, nobody seems to threaten them, and I think that nobody scares them, either.
The SIA pilots and SAS pilots will be fine together.
SIA Cargo seems like a good company, well managed, structured with a good infastructure.
SIN seems to be a good city to live in, at least compared to a lot of other "expat heavens".
And I am actually President Bush. I am busy in Iraq, but I will continue this thread, because it will prove a few things to the most extreme rumour mongers, who believe that Elvis is alive. (approximately 0,4 % of the population).
Elvis was King, I am now President, and I love it.
Bow in awe..!
FS
PS: Exposing RatherBeSailing. He is not emirates, he has his big Swan 52 in a yard outside Stockholm. I think he is SAS management, they utilize quite a lot of FOs with high seniority. This one was either in training or checking. I wonder if he has applied to move his boat to the SIN East Coast..! Did he pass the admission tests..?
My 5th title is on, I am now President.
And, for you intelligent observers (I hope there is a few).
Let this be a good demonstration how rumours and speculation try to conquer facts!
The facts remain, gentlemen (yes, I must say there are some exemptions..).
SAS pilots apply as individuals to SIA Cargo.
There seems to be no subsidies in this arrangements.
All SAS pilots apply from their own will, nobody seems to threaten them, and I think that nobody scares them, either.
The SIA pilots and SAS pilots will be fine together.
SIA Cargo seems like a good company, well managed, structured with a good infastructure.
SIN seems to be a good city to live in, at least compared to a lot of other "expat heavens".
And I am actually President Bush. I am busy in Iraq, but I will continue this thread, because it will prove a few things to the most extreme rumour mongers, who believe that Elvis is alive. (approximately 0,4 % of the population).
Elvis was King, I am now President, and I love it.
Bow in awe..!
FS
PS: Exposing RatherBeSailing. He is not emirates, he has his big Swan 52 in a yard outside Stockholm. I think he is SAS management, they utilize quite a lot of FOs with high seniority. This one was either in training or checking. I wonder if he has applied to move his boat to the SIN East Coast..! Did he pass the admission tests..?
Well, that explains why such an unrepresentative opinion is being pushed so strongly. Only somebody with a financial interest/benefit in persuading SAS pilots to go to SIA could ignore the facts so vehemently!!
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The Evidence
Boy, I must have struck a sore nerve with Factseeker/Lagarhus!
On the morning of April 10th I happened to look in on this thread and saw to my surprise that Lagarhus himself had posted a reply where he gave a little info on the SAS/Sia Cargo deal. He even used the user name "Lagarhus" and didn't hide who he was. Later that day the post was gone (deleted), but lo and behold, who do ya think registered for this site and began replying en masse that same day if not our adamant friend, Factseeker!
Coincidence? I don't think soooo!
The prosecution rests.....Your witness.
Cheers,
RatherBeSailing
(Extra credit- Factseeker refers above to a "token" that SAS pilots have but not him. So he's not an SAS pilot. On the other hand, he has alot of inside info about SAS and their pilots, like management apparently using FO's alot, so we can safely assume he is a former SAS pilot. Just like Lagarhus! Strange...)
On the morning of April 10th I happened to look in on this thread and saw to my surprise that Lagarhus himself had posted a reply where he gave a little info on the SAS/Sia Cargo deal. He even used the user name "Lagarhus" and didn't hide who he was. Later that day the post was gone (deleted), but lo and behold, who do ya think registered for this site and began replying en masse that same day if not our adamant friend, Factseeker!
Coincidence? I don't think soooo!
The prosecution rests.....Your witness.
Cheers,
RatherBeSailing
(Extra credit- Factseeker refers above to a "token" that SAS pilots have but not him. So he's not an SAS pilot. On the other hand, he has alot of inside info about SAS and their pilots, like management apparently using FO's alot, so we can safely assume he is a former SAS pilot. Just like Lagarhus! Strange...)
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Excellent, RartherBeSailing
Good show, you even created an alias, to make sure your allegations are "substantiated".
This thread is dying, due to the normal reasons: The subject and issues are forgotten, and only speculations and allegations remain.
Congratulations, RatherBeSailing..!
FS
The intelligent observer will have seen that this thread is deteriorating into pure allegations and speculations.
However, I think we are a little more enlightened regarding the issue of SAS pilots to SIA, and some of the worst speculations should have been put to rest.
No more to wring out of this subject, it seems, as other issues and allegations takes first place.
So, Factseeker rides on into the sunset, for another quest for the real facts.
But you do not get rid of him, he surfaces tomorrow, in another shape, but the same quest,
Maybe Zorro..?
This thread is dying, due to the normal reasons: The subject and issues are forgotten, and only speculations and allegations remain.
Congratulations, RatherBeSailing..!
FS
The intelligent observer will have seen that this thread is deteriorating into pure allegations and speculations.
However, I think we are a little more enlightened regarding the issue of SAS pilots to SIA, and some of the worst speculations should have been put to rest.
No more to wring out of this subject, it seems, as other issues and allegations takes first place.
So, Factseeker rides on into the sunset, for another quest for the real facts.
But you do not get rid of him, he surfaces tomorrow, in another shape, but the same quest,
Maybe Zorro..?
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well it looks like someone is certainly in cahoots with the 4th floor at the SIA training centre!
to sas guys coming out here: please be prepared for the worst...life can be mighty lonely when no one wants to have anything to do with you. as posted earlier, the little leverage locals have is being severly diminshed by the presence of this SAS-SIA deal and the pilots it will create. the existing SIA FOs will be hardest hit i think-reduced benefits and wages and longer time to command (added to the inevitable Relief Cruise Pilot introduction).
please think and think again-how would you guys feel if a 100 of us turned up at the SAS academy for training, whilst you were trying to score a respectable wage/conditions deal??
to sas guys coming out here: please be prepared for the worst...life can be mighty lonely when no one wants to have anything to do with you. as posted earlier, the little leverage locals have is being severly diminshed by the presence of this SAS-SIA deal and the pilots it will create. the existing SIA FOs will be hardest hit i think-reduced benefits and wages and longer time to command (added to the inevitable Relief Cruise Pilot introduction).
please think and think again-how would you guys feel if a 100 of us turned up at the SAS academy for training, whilst you were trying to score a respectable wage/conditions deal??
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All lies
Big Giant Head sez........
No restoration to PRE-SARS.
No more taking money from his pockets..
Pls, stop the rumours of restorations...
But pls start rumours on more wage cuts ...
No restoration to PRE-SARS.
No more taking money from his pockets..
Pls, stop the rumours of restorations...
But pls start rumours on more wage cuts ...
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tebuan..you are joking Mate?
1989 there were 100 odd pilots left the shores of OZ to take up command positions with SIA and the local union were on the verge of a 30% pay rise.....needless to say, the locals never got their pay rise and the aussies were welcomed in as national heroes!.........don't kid yourself no one in SQ will be ostracized.the locals won't allow it and management will kick out any trouble makers. like here in honkers - management right behind you!
1989 there were 100 odd pilots left the shores of OZ to take up command positions with SIA and the local union were on the verge of a 30% pay rise.....needless to say, the locals never got their pay rise and the aussies were welcomed in as national heroes!.........don't kid yourself no one in SQ will be ostracized.the locals won't allow it and management will kick out any trouble makers. like here in honkers - management right behind you!