SST77,
Ermm.. I think it's a highly paid + stable career + "honourable" job, hence every guys wanna give a try on it. IMHO (again), go for a flying course in Malaysia or Thailand. Many will say they have the passion for flying. But to be honest, not all are suited to make it a career.... I'm a typical example of one of them I must admit. Hence, I'm glad sq given me the chance to try to the extend of jandakot and I respect their decision to axe me eventually. I believe it's for both the company and my own good. :)

frankly i don't think its a stable career at all. On the contrary, one of the more unstable ones around. You have to pass medicals annual/semi annually, base checks, etc, failing which you're grounded

highly paid? above average i should say, mostly cos of the allowances

honourable? :) it gets pretty mudane after a while

Which job or career is forever stable in this unstable world?
You can be as highly paid or even better if you are the best in your industry.
Every profession is "honourable" if you practise it with integrity, commitment and passion.

Therefore, the only reason why we all want to fly, should purely because, we just want to fly.

Just my 2 cents worth.:cool:

hi there,

for those who are seeking a high pay, stable, honourable job,

i will advise to try a business or become a CEO, that will be suitable with the above job description

a pilot is a non-stable job, take a look at the cargo forum, or the recession or sars period, pple seems to think that we earn alot annually, but in actual fact that is not really true. yearly medical criteria etc,

they pay us to leave our family for about 15 to 20 days on a average a month. i envy my frds who earn more then me and work less then me...

we are just like drivers, instead of a bus its just a plane.
love the job and be contented about flying will make us a happy man. for those out there, its worth giving a shot if you truely love flying.it a fun job and its rewarding to a certain extend.

soley my thoughts on a pilot.

cheers good luck to all,
great way to fly
singapore airlines

I would agree with Airbus_380.

If you are looking for honour, money, stability, go somewhere else. If you have passion, this is the place to go.

Everyone has their own goals, so it's not my place to say who is suitable or not. Many go for the money, they get bounced out during the interviews and complain.


Money makes the world go round... I, however, fly around the world. Which is better? Life is never fair, fairness doesn't live too.

I dunno guys...... Yeah sure you could start a business, but many many business fold up, plunging owners into financial difficulties. And how many of you guys have friends who are CEOs of a substantial company? Probably less than the number of pilot you know.

Being a pilot is one of the few jobs out there where one can earn a higher-than-average income by simply being an average pilot. The responsibility is high, and that's reflected in the pay, but on most days there isn't all that much to do. Sure you're going to miss important occasions like CNY, Christmas, BDays etc, but you don't have endless deadlines, projects, business meetings etc which may cause you to miss important family time as well.

It's not an iron rice bowl, of course, no job is really stable anymore. But I don't personally know any pilot who is out of a job at the moment, but I know heaps of pple with marketing/sales/engineering etc background who are unemployed, or who are stuck in some admin or wealth mgmt job.

So I still think that being a pilot is a great job which pays reasonably well, and is reasonably stable. I don't know about the honourable part (haha), glorified maybe, cuz of television. The irony of it all is this....... i think that if you really have a passion for flying, you're going to be bored stiff with flying a big passenger jet. There's so little actual flying. Mostly procedures. How much passion can one have in that?

Anyway, this is just my humble opinion. I'm sure everyone's got a different take to it all. :)

hi guys,
yes i agree totally. we get paid due to the responsibility and the time spend out of town, its a nice job and of cos there are alot of hidden agendas which u will know only when u are in the pilots family,

overall i enjoy my job and for those who seek towards the goal of a pilot, good luck, if i can make it so can alot of people out there.

cheers

hi airbus380,

Agree to what you said. Its a career path that is less traveled by those who are looking for money, fame, time for oneself and others. It just aint happening in an ideal world. I've been through very rough jobs to very glamourous one, yet the bug of wanting to fly still itch.

I personally took a detour from my very comfortable job with a very comfortable pay because of just one thing; wanting to fly a plane, a very very big plane.

I never look back when I resigned. I never will. I never regret the things that I've done, I only regret the things that I didn't do. Cheers and hope to see you around soon bro.

The important thing pointed out is, financially, a commercial pilot will be better off just by giving an average performance. Rushing projects and deadlines can be as frustrating and missing out on friends and family too.
And yeah you are right! Technically, there is very little "flying".

Hey guys, is SIA more enthusiastic when it comes to hard copy applications? Submitted my 1st application round May 2005 and waited only 2 weeks for news to attend 1st interview. Went through to the tea party but did not get chosen for medical, suppose that means I din pass the panel and 2nd round.

One year has passed and I tot maybe shld attempt again. Submitted online application a month ago but has not gotten any replies.

Far as I know, people who processes the applications are actually Cadets themselves who returned from Jandakok/Maroochydore waiting for line training. Not too sure if the non reply is due to the fact that SIA hardly consider applicants who have been thru the 2nd round and din make it or HR is in fact receiving too many application.

Was wondering if passing the hard copy application thru pilots I know will help in any sense?

For the vast majority, SIA will not reconsider you if you've failed anything from the 2nd interview onwards. I don't think that it's in the website anymore, but I don't think that's changed. And I really doubt if passing the application to any cadets there now will help in any way, cuz you have to disclose if you've applied for any position in SIA previously.
If you really want a 2nd chance, make sure that you've improved your own qualifications from the last time that you've applied. It could be academic qualifications or even flying qualifications. Then SIA might give you a second chance.
Good luck.

Hi thanks for the advice! :o) I was also told by my friend that that's only a very obscure chance that I'll be considered again but well...guess no harm trying. Perhaps a talk with the Chief Pilot might help?

yeah sure, why not?. just slot him in right after you speak to Bill Gates (BFG to his friends) about why his next windows is taking so long, and just before the meeting with Bush to get an update on the terrorist situation. or hell just bung them together in the same meeting and create an all-american anti-terrorist game on Xbox for our 777s while getting an interview! Hee hee. Sorry, just kidding, mate. :P

Seriously, unless you know someone in upper mgmt personally, or knows someone who knows someone in upp mgmt personally, they wouldn't show you the slightest concern. Why would they? If they did, they would set up a precedent for all those pple rejected after the 2nd interview to follow.

I'm curious, tho. How did you plan to go about setting up a meeting?

It's always good to know people in high places.

yeah one often finds that it's not what you know that matters, but who you know.

If you are saying this, it means that you don't know him, and more importantly, he does not know you.

It also means that you don't know that there are as many Chief Pilots as there are fleet types.

It also means that you don't know that they are not involved in the selection and training of cadets.

The selection process is not at all as though you are queueing up outside a club and you go to the bouncer and say I know the owner and then he says OK please come in.

You really do need to demonstrate how vastly different you are from the last time you were interviewed to be reconsidered.

Like maybe how you have a patent in your name to manipluate the genes of an oil plam and you can get the plant to produce kerosene at $20 per barrel instead of palm oil.

I'm not absolutely sure but recall reading in Captain Lim's website that there were some chaps who got thru a 2nd chance after flunging the final interview.

I'm aware that each fleet has its Chief Pilot but really, my helpful friend was merely saying he can speak to his Chief should he happen to bum into him in Flight Ops Dept, no promises at all. Speaking of which I'm really glad that there are actually many such amiable and helpful pilots around. Bunch of them who graduated in 2005 I think. :) Apologies for causing misunderstanding that I'm gonna talk to the Chief Pilots personally.

I do know that the chiefs dun actively take part in the selection process, the Management (usually a snr CAPT) and HR people do that. However, having a recommendation and validation of passion from someone senior should help eh? At least I hope so...

As for the precedence to follow thingy, I suppose it's a case by case basis and really, SIA would not be obliged to entertain any complaints/comments or watever even if applicants make noise rite? Hmmm

Much as I do not agree with the policy to permanently eradicate passionate ppl who for some reasons or other did not perform in the 2nd round (I've gotten to know quite a few in this forum by the way), I am helpless and can't do much aside from trying and still trying which in the end may turn out futile anyway.

I know there's the usual explanation that SIA receives a wide pool of applicants and the vol is probably daunting. Moreover, they must have accessed that the applicant who flung the 2nd round is really not suitable but well...isn't all this subjective? The death sentence is kinda hard to swallow. Even Major Consultant Companies like Mckinsey and Bain offers 2nd chances coz they believe people mature and will change in the course of time and by going through life experiences. And no, they do not have to be so radically different such as in coming up with scientific chemical patents to curb the insatiable rise of fuel prices. Haha!

Perhaps someone senior enough in the management reading this forum might wanna offer an alternative explanation? :D

Hey Jerry,

Im in a similar position as u in some ways. Failed my final round 4 years back, still eager to fly for SIA but im currently tied down with a bond. So im waiting.

Met an SQ pilot fren of mine a couple of weeks back. He happens to know a few HR executives personally. He called them on the spot to ask about my eligibility and the good news is that they do accept final round rejects like us for 2nd chances. But i have to agree with the earlier posts with regards to improving yourself since the last time u applied. I am working on that now and hoping for the best on my next try.

So don't lose hope, manage your expectations and keep on trying!

Cheers.:ok:

What is this PASSION people always talk about??!?!
 

So many people claim to have a PASSION to fly, but honestly, how much about airplanes and flying do they know? I don't want to put anyone down, but when I think of PASSION, I think of someone who permanently changed his life, lives the passion or spends significant resources (time & money) to pursue his dream.

Think of the guy who quit his job to become a flight instructor, or someone who shelled out $20,000 of his savings to learn to fly without the prospect of recouping the money back because he simply likes to fly that plane.

I am sure there are people out there who are passionate about aviation but do not have the means to pursue it. Perhaps the fuel guy who pumps up the planes or anyone on the apron at the airport took that job to work with airplanes but couldn't afford to learn to fly one, or the mechanic who hangs out at seletar airfield learning to fix aircraft engines. Some of the line guys working in the small airport I fly out of work there to pay for their flight time, and I respect those guys because they truly have the passion.

I just think guys should DEMONSTRATE this passion to work with aircraft. Surfing www.airliners.net or reading FLIGHT magazine DOES NOT COUNT. I see people claiming passion all the time, it has become so cliche, and it makes it even harder for SIA to differentiate the true pilots from the wannabes. It really muddies the waters for the guys out there who have devoted their lives to flight. Of course knowing someone in high office might help, but come on, you're going to need more than a letter of recommendation to get through the years of training. Seriously, after I got my PPL, I realised that flying might not be for everyone, regardless of this PASSION. It sure is easy to talk about planes but it's a whole different story when you are out there as the PIC of your plane.

I haven't applied to SQ, I might eventually, but right now, I just enjoy zipping around in my rental 172 and building up my time, so I am by no means like some of the guys here who have much higher ratings. I truly respect the guys who get to fly the big heavy jets, and perhaps one day I might get to fly the sticks in the Airbus.

Anyway, to end it off, I've got a dumb question to add, for those B744 pilots transitioning to A380, how's the difference in your tactile feedback changing from a yoke to a stick??

I believe passion comes from all directions. Be it a guy who picks up a magazine or a guy sitting there at the airport watching planes. It's not about the sacrifice but mostly about the initiative you take. It's the road you travel with your passion and not the result.

I think for the transition should be pretty easy as many had started off with airbus long time ago.

Your version of passion is seriously lopsided and one-dimensional.

You equate passion with sacrifice. But that is just one of the many aspects of passion.

If you ever make it into an airline you will find that there are many ways of doing something and as a junior pilot if you continue with this rigid approach to life in general and how things ought to be done by your standards, then you will have an absolutely miserable time.

Need some help..I'm new here.
 

Currently i'm studying mechanical engineering in diploma level, will finish diploma level by may 2007. Do you think SIA will accept my application eventhough i didnt finish diploma level? The SIA website stated, polytechnic diploma, but i'll be having a college diploma, will they accept? Give some comment please..... thanks!!

Please lah, go to post #36 on:
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...=147640&page=2

It's good that you are able to afford your own flying, but not everyone is as fortunate. You might be spending a substantial amount of your OWN salary on flying and equate that sacrifice of money and time as passion. But consider another scenario where a guy has jobless parents to suppport, education loan to pay off and younger siblings to look after. It will not be viable for him to spend the bulk of his money and time to persue his flying, will it? BUT he can advance his knowledge about aviation through magazines, books, simply talking to pilots or just plane spotting. He might not have the benefit of experiencing flight first hand, but the willingness to learn about it in other ways IS passion in my opinion. So I agree with Billkill that passion is not about the sacrifice you make, but the road you take. Not being physically associated with planes does not disqualify a person from being passionate about flying. When I say reading up on aviation stuff, I'm referring to people who are really doing it in their spare time, and not those who read up alot just before the interview. So if you are worried that these so claimed 'passionate' people will 'spoil the market' for you, rest assured that the interviewers are experienced enough to tell the difference. Just my two cents worth.

9V

P.S. Just curious, how do you define a 'true pilot' anyway?

...
 

On a different note, I read in a bike forum somewhere that this particular frequent flyer was feeling unhappy about the service by the flight crew.

He mentioned that he wished the pilots would not mumble over the PA and to create a rapport with the passengers. By rapport he does not mean that the pilots go around to each class and perform magic tricks or juggle fruits but perhaps more like, addressing the passengers and not just mumbling mumbo jumbo information to no one in particular.

What are you guys' take on this? :D

PS: 9V... the ideal pilot should know his ship inside out I guess... probably in terms of single rotor engines... he could errrr repair mechanical/electrical faults to the engine? my opinion i guess...

Interesting case mocca. But actually I think SIA itself does not really create a rapport with the passengers. (which I think every pilot should). Although a pilot's job is to fly the plane, gaining the trust of the passengers is also important. They are putting their lives in your hand and I feel that pilots themselves should reassure the passengers of a safe and comfortable flight instead of the cabin crew. That's my own opinion though. People/passengers have plenty of complaints, but a complaint like that is pretty trivial. He may think we are mumbling nonsense because maybe it ain't important to him. Some people indeed do not care about the time taken, the altitude and such. They just want to reach their destination. But others do care. So one person's opinion does not mean it's something wrong that we are doing.

A true pilot..that's a very good question....i guess everyone has their own views/definition on this. However, I shall share my views and definition of a "true pilot". It's one that has the confidence and responsibility to handle situations and his ship. Taking the initiative and trouble to know everything that's going on...be it the controls, auto-pilot, cabin, engines, co-pilot's personality/mood (team-work is very important), etc. Making sure that the trip is safe as safety is the most important issue. One that takes everything into consideration when a challenging situation arises, analayze and make good decisions. And that's of course, besides having the passion to fly. Lastly, one that is objective oriented and know his role.

Hope you guys will share your views.

next SIA Cadet Pilot vacancy
 

hi. i'm new here.. i'll save the intro for next time but for now i wish to know when any of you think the next vacancy will be? your replies will be much appreciated. thanks!

Thermal Image,

You might want to know that while SQ is a transparent company, knowing someone on the top might help. I personally know one line pilot who was selected as a cadet due to Chief Pilot strong recommendation (they are not relative btw). He didn't qualify for the SQ cadet pilot program (i won't say which one) & Joyce at STC was really protesting having him admitted but she can't win against CP. Heck, he didn't even go for the 1st interview, but straight to the final round.

But, he turn out to be a very helpful pilot (to fellow cadet).

SQ really looking for people with strong passion in flying. I believe people like Cpt. M can tell a different if someone know things from what he just read few days before interview or due to his own self-interest for years.

Someone going for the 1st interview called me before for tips & he can't even tell the different between B744 or B777 like no of engine, or at least how the "queen of the sky" look like. Not sure whether he made it through or not....

Yes I do agree that knowing one of the CPs can be very helpful in getting in and even short circuiting the selection process (to the extent of ruining the gatekeeper Joyce's day - yeah!).

If any CP is willing to vouch for a particular cadet then that should be good enough for Capt M. You don't even need to be a CP to ask Capt M to take a look at someone. He's not such a scary guy, you know?

However such personal favours are not at all the same as being a cadet wannabe, flunking the intial interview AND THEN trying to salvage the situation by talking to one of the CPs. They would not be the least bit interested in departing from their routine to stick their neck out for someone they don't already know. As simple as that.

As for your friend who doesn't know 2 from 4, no self resepecting pilot should help someone who can't even be bothered to discover such basic, even crude differences / knowledge for himself.

sir, you should save those personal jibes for yourself. You are welcome to criticize my comments and ideas, but I do not appreciate the comments you make about me and my life.

Back to the topic, yes, you could say I see sacrifice as a measure of one's passion. Passion is a pretty strong word, and making sacrifices in our lives help us prioritise the things that are most dear to us. How can one not make sacrifices and claim to have passion? If we could all live life with no sacrifices, nothing would be of value anymore.

Maybe I am just doodling with semantics, you're describing someone who has the INTEREST in aviation, not PASSION. As I had mentioned earlier in the response to ThermalImage, "Passion" is a notch higher than "Interest". Reading on aviation is simply just being interested in it. If a guy reads PC World, Runner's World or some other form of literature, it is just someone interested in their respective topics. But say someone who devotes his time and energy into building model RC airplanes, writing about aviation or a personal project, that sounds a lot more like passion to me because interactivity is involved. In university, I knew guys who built mini turbojets from turbochargers they salvaged from a junk yard and made them run off propane gas. They hardly spent any money too, and in all honesty, they had the passion in what they did.

You're right about the comment about someone without time or money to demonstrate the passion (sheesh, this word is getting cliche!). Think about it, if he's got so many commitments, he's not going to be thinking of taking off for training and leaving his folks behind. Sadly, flying is a privilege and you either need lots of money or zero commitments in life.

You know, I was half expecting someone to say that I was afraid "the market might be spoiled". You are right, I feel the market is spoiled, and I am not alone when I say this. At least one other person awaiting the final round also told me this. You know why I am perturbed? There are jokers out there who cannot tell a 777 from a 747.



TRUE Pilot? Simply someone who runs a tight ship and makes sure his crew is running efficiently.

Does that mean that most of us here do not have passion but only interest before we started flying? But those that took flying on their own has passion?

Passion or interests, these 2 are traits that can't be gauged in an individual in any profession that they do. A CEO can say that he is passionate about making his company profitable, for his stakeholders, etc, but his BEST interests could be the pay and perks that he is getting annually that keep him going from all the daily s**t he has to face. You can't blame the chap for SPOILING the market then, because he sits there with RESPONSIBILITIES and COMMITMENTS, and he was being APPOINTED with trust and faith. He ain't drawing salary for nothing. And honestly, not everyone can be a CEO.

Back to aviation. What I am trying to convey is, as long as a pilot DELIVER in his best of ability, in line with the company directions and his SELF MOTIVATION AND COMMITMENTS, I do not see why we should doubt a person's integrity, or even discuss about it. Its a person's character and values who make the best out of the pilot in him, not the other way round. There might be a few sour grapes around that give pilots a bad name, but thats just an insignificant amount.

Sacrifices are needed at times, to pursue your dream or things that appeal to you most. But a good leader and a sensible person will always weigh and balance it out on what is the best decision to do at that particular point of time. We are all VICTIM OF CIRCUMSTANCES. Passion is passion, reality is always reality. Life is like a s**t sandwich, the more bread we have the less s**t we have to eat. I've always wanted to be a engineer and I have interests in fluid dynamics, but my old man says "Dude, here is a million dollar company waiting for your heirship". What can I do then

Now I am pursuing my dream to be a pilot, and letting go of all thats tangible in value. That's my pay and my perks. I've switched from reading Harvard Business Review to Airliners and Aviation publications. Still not enough moolah to get my ass to indulge in GA yet. Passionate enough in me? :}

Go back to my post.

See the last paragraph, the one that appears to have provoked some kind of reaction from you.

See if you can find the words "if....then...."

The plain meaning of those words is merely to state what would happen in your career IF you had a certain attitude. It is not, as you state, criticising you and your life.

However, IF (here it comes again) the words DO sting, then they must have quite a degree of truth in it.

So perhaps I am correct, as are the others who are showing you other meanings of passion, that you are just a very narrow minded person.

And hey, if your idea of a true pilot (from a wannabe, no less) is running "a tight ship" and "making sure his crew is running efficiently" (your words), then that just about confirms your obviously flawed concept of CRM. You think pilots are generals ah?

Did your ideas about AIRLINE flight operations come from some Hardy Boys storybook about WW2 bomber pilots?

Haha, you're pretty full of yourself.

This is just my personal thought of passion. How i weigh if this person is passionate of flying.

If i meet a person who knows so much about flying...can tell me the difference in every type of aircraft and has a vast knowledge of aviation. Is this person passionate?

If i meet a person who had not flown before but had always love to look at the sky for aeroplanes since young. Is this person passionate?

Hard to differenciate? If i straight away say come on...u only know this and that or u havent even flown how do u know u r passionate? I can be right or i can be wrong. How can one judge a person's passion by just reading or knowing the person for a day or 2? Passion is a collective event. You think the SQ interviewers can see if one is passionate or not in just a 20mins interview?

This is all a trap of what i call perception. If he likes u good if not too bad. Everyone of us has a perception build in us of what passions are. So to argue and debate this issue, it will never come to an end. My only advise is, if one is really passionate about flying, forget about what others think about you, u can be either rich or poor, if your heart is always with the sky while working, eating or sleeping, you can tell yourself flying is what u want to do for the rest of your life. If you failed once, twice, thrice and thought about giving up, then you know which category u fall into. Cheers and just my 2 cents worth. :ok:

Hmm, at first you try to be a champion of fair play.

But when shown that you have misunderstood what I said, and you can't come up with any logical rebuttals, you make a pathetic attempt to insult me.

Nothing new here, when children can't counter an argument, they just resort to name calling. Well done.

So you got your FAA PPL on 19 April, and now you're some kind of airline aviation god?

http://www.xanga.com/home.aspx?user=carlvinson

I see thermal image is pretty resourceful. :hmm:

Hi Guys
 

Hello guys, I am new here and i find this forum extremely good and useful. Just to pop up a question, any of u guys joining the OBS on 11th May??:O

its wartime!
 

whoa... this place is turning into a warzone.. guys.. truly... the best way for a win-win situation is to understand each other and reconcile if required. having a war here makes it look like a child's play.. try this.. stay humble and share.. that's all.. what ever information that's shared will be each individual's own perception and conclusion within themselves only.. bare in mind.. we're adults and we're human.. we have brains to think and every individual has their own mind and ways.. never thought flying is such a political gameplay and even worse... not a diplomatic one... keep on throwing grenades at each other and you will never end the war until someone stops throwing grenades.. in this case i'd recommend this.. since it had turned sour.. RECONCILE.. both of you are wrong to throw insults at each other regardless of who started it first... the person whom threw the insult back after the first should think this... are you actually as low of a standard as the person who threw the insult first? just take 2 seconds and give it a thought.. hope to see some apologies even if the one side is too proud to be feel sorry.. (hint. one has to start first) gosh.. i'd think i'll make better money being a marriage consultant.. haha!