SIA Cadet Pilot - All Batches, Merged
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Singapore
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Dear lofty-dreamer, please see my comments below:
You might want to check and confirm what you will get at the end of your 90k course in Florida. The course offered by CAAS-approved FTOs (e.g. Singapore Flying College, STATA) gets you a CAAS Commercial Pilots Licence (CPL) with Multi Engine (ME) and Instrument Rating (IR), and Air Transport Pilots Licence (ATPL) ground school credits. I'm not sure if you get a ME and IR with the Florida flight school that you checked. Some countries do issue you a bare kosong single-engine CPL with no IR, which of course is no good for any airline job if that's what you're after. Don't get sucked into the low price only to find out that you gotta add and add later.
In terms of quality, it is always a debatable subjective matter. Some pilots will say FAA licences are crap, where others favour the more practical training approach by the Americans. Ultimately it depends on what you are comfortable with, and what you intend to do with a pilot licence. If you want to fly in Singapore, you are better off getting yourself a Singapore licence. STATA and SFC courses are both approved by CAAS so you will get a Singapore CPL/IR/ME at the end. Otherwise you'll run into the headache of foreign-licence conversion, and an almost guaranteed need to re-write all ground school examinations.
I have seen a number of self-sponsored cadets in Singapore landing jobs in MI. Those I know hold CAAS CPL, thus no need to convert. All they had to do was not screw up their interviews. They are now undergoing the A320 course. I've yet to come across anyone in Singapore holding a low-hour foreign-licence CPL getting a job here simply because converting the licence is such a pain in the rectum.
My view is that flying jobs are aplenty in this region. The booming LCC segment is pushing demands for experienced pilots through the stratosphere. However raw pilots still find it difficult to secure jobs unless you have thick cables of connections or have extra $$$ to do a type-rating course, and even that doesn't guarantee anything. If you intend to self-sponsor, my suggestion is always have plenty of back-ups and contingencies. Be prepared to do something else while you wait for your opportunity to knock on your door.
One option that most people here don't think about is flight instructing. I heard from sources that STATA are in need of flight instructors and they are willing to subsidize your flight instructor course after your CPL course provided that you are bonded with them for the next few years in Australia doing flight instructing. It is an excellent way to fill up your logbook and most airlines favor recruiting flight instructors as they see potential of being training captains next time. I know a STATA flight instructor who was recently snapped up by MI after instructing for a few years. Money as instructors are not great as most instructors will tell you, but instructors make much better pilots as they are more familiar with raw flying without the autopilots, and thus they constantly do practice manoeuvres such as stalling / steep turns / glide / PFLs / EFATO... etc. How many times do airline pilots do such things with jets?
I fully agree with Stallone. Try out the cadet programs first. Not only those in Singapore (SQ / MI / SQC / 3K / TR), but also Cathay (though it will be difficult if you don't have blonde hair and a British / Australian passport). But do be aware that airline-sponsored cadet programs are very competitive. They only select the creme de la creme. So your academic results must be there. And of course, don't goof the interviews. Throughout the training the airlines will not hesitate to terminate cadet's training at any stage if they deem him as not performing to the airline's standard.
I've been through the path of getting a licence. Many will tell you it's not easy, and often comes with blood, sweat and tears. But if you are determined and passionate about it, one day you will hold that licence in your hand, just as I have. As for jobs, that's the next chapter.
I wish you all the very best in your pursuit of your dreams.
Therefore, I am very curious to understand the difference in costs of enrolling in a local flight academy like STATA vs. flight schools in Florida. Why does the CPL in Singapore cost upwards of 120k while in Florida it is around 90k (based on USD69k). Is there really a difference is the quality of STATA (ie. better than those in the US)?
In terms of quality, it is always a debatable subjective matter. Some pilots will say FAA licences are crap, where others favour the more practical training approach by the Americans. Ultimately it depends on what you are comfortable with, and what you intend to do with a pilot licence. If you want to fly in Singapore, you are better off getting yourself a Singapore licence. STATA and SFC courses are both approved by CAAS so you will get a Singapore CPL/IR/ME at the end. Otherwise you'll run into the headache of foreign-licence conversion, and an almost guaranteed need to re-write all ground school examinations.
I ask this having read numerous posts on how self-sponsored cadets in SIngapore have only a slim chance of landing a flying job locally; would it not make more sense to head overseas where the chances of landing a job is much greater (i.e. assuming that I am willing to relocate to any part of the world where employment is possible and available)?
My view is that flying jobs are aplenty in this region. The booming LCC segment is pushing demands for experienced pilots through the stratosphere. However raw pilots still find it difficult to secure jobs unless you have thick cables of connections or have extra $$$ to do a type-rating course, and even that doesn't guarantee anything. If you intend to self-sponsor, my suggestion is always have plenty of back-ups and contingencies. Be prepared to do something else while you wait for your opportunity to knock on your door.
One option that most people here don't think about is flight instructing. I heard from sources that STATA are in need of flight instructors and they are willing to subsidize your flight instructor course after your CPL course provided that you are bonded with them for the next few years in Australia doing flight instructing. It is an excellent way to fill up your logbook and most airlines favor recruiting flight instructors as they see potential of being training captains next time. I know a STATA flight instructor who was recently snapped up by MI after instructing for a few years. Money as instructors are not great as most instructors will tell you, but instructors make much better pilots as they are more familiar with raw flying without the autopilots, and thus they constantly do practice manoeuvres such as stalling / steep turns / glide / PFLs / EFATO... etc. How many times do airline pilots do such things with jets?
I fully agree with Stallone. Try out the cadet programs first. Not only those in Singapore (SQ / MI / SQC / 3K / TR), but also Cathay (though it will be difficult if you don't have blonde hair and a British / Australian passport). But do be aware that airline-sponsored cadet programs are very competitive. They only select the creme de la creme. So your academic results must be there. And of course, don't goof the interviews. Throughout the training the airlines will not hesitate to terminate cadet's training at any stage if they deem him as not performing to the airline's standard.
I've been through the path of getting a licence. Many will tell you it's not easy, and often comes with blood, sweat and tears. But if you are determined and passionate about it, one day you will hold that licence in your hand, just as I have. As for jobs, that's the next chapter.
I wish you all the very best in your pursuit of your dreams.
Join Date: Feb 2010
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loftydream, I hate to break it to you, but being a Singaporean and wanting to be a pilot leaves you with very few options.
1. Apply for cadetship with SQ
2. Apply for cadetship with Jetstar Asia
3. PRAY that Airasia's Singapore hub materialises and then apply for cadetship with them.
You'll notice I only gave you cadetships. Why?
Getting a license is a lot of money. Get the airline to pay for you, and at the same time, have them decide if you have the aptitude to become a pilot.
If all three airlines rejected you from cadetship, maybe you're really not cut out to be a pilot.
I've trained with pilots who had neither the aptitude or the attitude to become pilots, but only got their license because daddy had unlimited money. Where are they now? They can't even pass the Eaglejet Sim check.
That's not to say you're not up to it. You probably are, considering that you've done your research.
Singaporeans with foreign CPLs are basically in limbo. Why?
1. You cannot convert your license unless you are employed by a Singapore carrier.
2. Which is ridiculous because 9 out of 10 times, to be employed by a Singapore carrier, you need a Singaporea license.
3. You can't even work in the country where you got your license because guess what? You can't get a job there because you will NEVER get a work permit to work as a pilot when you have only an fATPL and 200-odd hours. Believe me, I've tried. I've offered to wash floats, fly jumps, but all countries except Singapore have laws giving priority to locals in the jobs market.
So if you got your CAAS license, which means you paid close 180K, you can pray that your interview with MI goes well and you land a job flying A320s. Provided you land the interview first.
If you've got a foreign license, the only chance you have is to fly south to indonesia and pay another 30-odd K to get an overpriced rating and land a job at a sub-par airline that has a spotty safety record, then pray that your captain doesn't do a scud run below minimums and then land long on a >4000ft runway.
I just want to point out that FAA licenses are cheap because of the immense competition all the FTOs face, not because they're sub par. You can do it in under 6 months because you can take your theory exams any time you want, and if you fail you can just take it again. Factor the 6 months vs 2 years of living costs and you'll see why people choose the FAA route. Not only that, ratings are a quarter of the price compared to JAA ratings.
You haven't paid a dime to learn to fly yet, my suggestion is let SQ/Jetstar's interview see if you have the aptitude. You can say that it's a life long dream and all that, but you cannot buy a roof and food with dreams.
This is all doom and gloom from me, but with flying.monkeys showing you the positive side I figure I better play devils advocate and show you how bad it can be.
I'm quite lucky to have found a job with a type rating and zero hours on type, so I won't complain about my predicament.
What I think that most aspiring pilots in Singapore will find is that no matter how good you are, how hard you work, you need a ****load of luck because the odds are against you. No general aviation, no protectionist laws, no nothing.
If you do get a job at the end of the road then I can tell you the satisfaction will be IMMENSE.
1. Apply for cadetship with SQ
2. Apply for cadetship with Jetstar Asia
3. PRAY that Airasia's Singapore hub materialises and then apply for cadetship with them.
You'll notice I only gave you cadetships. Why?
Getting a license is a lot of money. Get the airline to pay for you, and at the same time, have them decide if you have the aptitude to become a pilot.
If all three airlines rejected you from cadetship, maybe you're really not cut out to be a pilot.
I've trained with pilots who had neither the aptitude or the attitude to become pilots, but only got their license because daddy had unlimited money. Where are they now? They can't even pass the Eaglejet Sim check.
That's not to say you're not up to it. You probably are, considering that you've done your research.
Singaporeans with foreign CPLs are basically in limbo. Why?
1. You cannot convert your license unless you are employed by a Singapore carrier.
2. Which is ridiculous because 9 out of 10 times, to be employed by a Singapore carrier, you need a Singaporea license.
3. You can't even work in the country where you got your license because guess what? You can't get a job there because you will NEVER get a work permit to work as a pilot when you have only an fATPL and 200-odd hours. Believe me, I've tried. I've offered to wash floats, fly jumps, but all countries except Singapore have laws giving priority to locals in the jobs market.
So if you got your CAAS license, which means you paid close 180K, you can pray that your interview with MI goes well and you land a job flying A320s. Provided you land the interview first.
If you've got a foreign license, the only chance you have is to fly south to indonesia and pay another 30-odd K to get an overpriced rating and land a job at a sub-par airline that has a spotty safety record, then pray that your captain doesn't do a scud run below minimums and then land long on a >4000ft runway.
I just want to point out that FAA licenses are cheap because of the immense competition all the FTOs face, not because they're sub par. You can do it in under 6 months because you can take your theory exams any time you want, and if you fail you can just take it again. Factor the 6 months vs 2 years of living costs and you'll see why people choose the FAA route. Not only that, ratings are a quarter of the price compared to JAA ratings.
You haven't paid a dime to learn to fly yet, my suggestion is let SQ/Jetstar's interview see if you have the aptitude. You can say that it's a life long dream and all that, but you cannot buy a roof and food with dreams.
This is all doom and gloom from me, but with flying.monkeys showing you the positive side I figure I better play devils advocate and show you how bad it can be.
I'm quite lucky to have found a job with a type rating and zero hours on type, so I won't complain about my predicament.
What I think that most aspiring pilots in Singapore will find is that no matter how good you are, how hard you work, you need a ****load of luck because the odds are against you. No general aviation, no protectionist laws, no nothing.
If you do get a job at the end of the road then I can tell you the satisfaction will be IMMENSE.
Join Date: Mar 2009
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Dear Stallone, flyingmonkeyz and mynameisjon,
I really appreciate your replies and the sharing of your experiences getting to the front of the aircraft. flyingmonkeyz, thanks for inspiring and mynameisjason, thanks for bringing me back to earth and for providing comprehensive and balanced insights comparing CAAS and FAA licenses.
At the moment, I am not able to apply for cadetship as I am serving a government bond and my leave / off-days are fixed in the middle and end of the year. Which means that if I am called for an interview, I may not be able to attend. With more flexibility after the bond period, I will certainly start my applications for cadetship, keeping my fingers crossed that aviation will not be in the doldrums then.
I do agree with you guys that flying jobs inevitably favour locals, and yes, I'm quite sure even if bush pilot jobs advertised internationally would likely favour those 'with blond hair and an australian/british passport' just like the CX cadetship.
Indeed, fortunate or not, being a Singaporean, I have come to terms that whatever my aspirations to fly, I need "a ****load of luck as the odds are against me". Particularly true since I do not have a rich daddy or connections of steel, but a dream and determination to see me through. I have 2 years to deliberate over this, ceratainly I hope for the ideal outcome but if it does not materialize, I will move on with life.
Thank You and have a Happy Chinese New Year!
I really appreciate your replies and the sharing of your experiences getting to the front of the aircraft. flyingmonkeyz, thanks for inspiring and mynameisjason, thanks for bringing me back to earth and for providing comprehensive and balanced insights comparing CAAS and FAA licenses.
At the moment, I am not able to apply for cadetship as I am serving a government bond and my leave / off-days are fixed in the middle and end of the year. Which means that if I am called for an interview, I may not be able to attend. With more flexibility after the bond period, I will certainly start my applications for cadetship, keeping my fingers crossed that aviation will not be in the doldrums then.
I do agree with you guys that flying jobs inevitably favour locals, and yes, I'm quite sure even if bush pilot jobs advertised internationally would likely favour those 'with blond hair and an australian/british passport' just like the CX cadetship.
Indeed, fortunate or not, being a Singaporean, I have come to terms that whatever my aspirations to fly, I need "a ****load of luck as the odds are against me". Particularly true since I do not have a rich daddy or connections of steel, but a dream and determination to see me through. I have 2 years to deliberate over this, ceratainly I hope for the ideal outcome but if it does not materialize, I will move on with life.
Thank You and have a Happy Chinese New Year!
Join Date: Jan 2012
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pls help with info
Hi.. I was trying to apply for the SIA cadet pilot programme via Singapore Airlines - Pilot appointments but
i get no pilot position available... Pls can someone direct me as to where I can down the application form?
i get no pilot position available... Pls can someone direct me as to where I can down the application form?
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Pls help me with the info
Hi... I am trying to apply for SIA Cadet Pilot Programme via Singapore Airlines - Pilot appointments but I see the message that no pilot openings available... Pls can someone tell me where can I download the application form?
Join Date: May 2008
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Hi All,
Does anyone have any idea when will SIA will open the applications for Cadet pilot program again this year? rough idea? or will they open the applications this year?
Pardon me if someone has already answered this before. i couldnt find one a proper answer for it.
Does anyone have any idea when will SIA will open the applications for Cadet pilot program again this year? rough idea? or will they open the applications this year?
Pardon me if someone has already answered this before. i couldnt find one a proper answer for it.
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Hi all who have contributed to the forum! Very, very kind of you to give people of interest information and a heads-up here & there, appreciate it!
For me, I've just turned 25 with VERY minimal qualifications ('O' Levels). My dream has always to been an aviator and if I was given the choice, why not fly with SQ! I'm sure many Pilots have had their own reasons why they chose an Airline like SQ whether it's the money, prestige or travel..
I gave up hope on flying about three years ago, where I was given an option to go to New Zealand and study (my family has been living there as PRs for a couple of years). The reason I opted out was I did not like the slow-paced environment in NZ, or I'd rather start working in Singapore to earn my keeps, or maybe it was just an excuse from studying.
Right now in this recent weeks, I've been weighing my options again. Two of which are to join Massey University in their Bachelor in Aviation (BAv/ATP) programme or to join the Diploma Course that Ardmore flying school, also NZ.
Questions are:
1) Would it be too expensive to enrol in Massey's ATP program and a waste of resources?
2) Would I need to do a conversion if I want to join our local carrier?
3) Would a diploma in aviation be enough of a qualification to join SQ?
I apologise for the long post but I am just like any other pilot wannabe in this forum who seeks answers to help in making a decision. I would really appreciate the feedback and I hope someone out there has the same questions as I do, answered.
Cheers to all, and a great 2012 ahead!
For me, I've just turned 25 with VERY minimal qualifications ('O' Levels). My dream has always to been an aviator and if I was given the choice, why not fly with SQ! I'm sure many Pilots have had their own reasons why they chose an Airline like SQ whether it's the money, prestige or travel..
I gave up hope on flying about three years ago, where I was given an option to go to New Zealand and study (my family has been living there as PRs for a couple of years). The reason I opted out was I did not like the slow-paced environment in NZ, or I'd rather start working in Singapore to earn my keeps, or maybe it was just an excuse from studying.
Right now in this recent weeks, I've been weighing my options again. Two of which are to join Massey University in their Bachelor in Aviation (BAv/ATP) programme or to join the Diploma Course that Ardmore flying school, also NZ.
Questions are:
1) Would it be too expensive to enrol in Massey's ATP program and a waste of resources?
2) Would I need to do a conversion if I want to join our local carrier?
3) Would a diploma in aviation be enough of a qualification to join SQ?
I apologise for the long post but I am just like any other pilot wannabe in this forum who seeks answers to help in making a decision. I would really appreciate the feedback and I hope someone out there has the same questions as I do, answered.
Cheers to all, and a great 2012 ahead!
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Don't leave life with regrets... If you really want to fly professionally, focus on your goal and commit yourself!
I do have a question for the group. I am sure this has been answered several times. What is the typical progression for an SIA Cadet Pilot? Once you get typed and experienced on the Lear 45, how is your next position decided? For example, does a Cadet Pilot first fly for Silkair and then on to SIA? Or, upon completion of Lear 45 training, does a Cadet pilot start as a SO on a 777 or A330/340?
What are the typical fleet type paths that a cadet pilot would take once training is complete? Any examples? Just curious - I wish I had access to such a programme at a great airline like SIA.
Cheers
I do have a question for the group. I am sure this has been answered several times. What is the typical progression for an SIA Cadet Pilot? Once you get typed and experienced on the Lear 45, how is your next position decided? For example, does a Cadet Pilot first fly for Silkair and then on to SIA? Or, upon completion of Lear 45 training, does a Cadet pilot start as a SO on a 777 or A330/340?
What are the typical fleet type paths that a cadet pilot would take once training is complete? Any examples? Just curious - I wish I had access to such a programme at a great airline like SIA.
Cheers
Join Date: Nov 2010
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There are no more L45. All the Learjets have been replaced by Cessna Citation Mustangs.
If you are selected for SIA passenger fleet, you will go through the Mustang course before doing the type rating for 777. SIA is in the process of getting CAAS' approval for the A330 Second Officer training.
If you are selected for SilkAir / SIA Cargo you will proceed straight for type course after the CPL/MECIR test in Perth.
If you are selected for SIA passenger fleet, you will go through the Mustang course before doing the type rating for 777. SIA is in the process of getting CAAS' approval for the A330 Second Officer training.
If you are selected for SilkAir / SIA Cargo you will proceed straight for type course after the CPL/MECIR test in Perth.
Join Date: Jan 2012
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Hi all
Hi all,
I'm new here. I just did my compass test with the air force and I just got to know my aptitude is only good enough for C3.. It's quite disappointing for me to know that I lack the aptitude of a pilot. Is the SIA aptitude as hard as the compass test? I'm 20 this year graduating this year with diploma and waiting for enlistment. Anything I can do on self improvement to increase my chance of getting into SIA?
Thanks.
I'm new here. I just did my compass test with the air force and I just got to know my aptitude is only good enough for C3.. It's quite disappointing for me to know that I lack the aptitude of a pilot. Is the SIA aptitude as hard as the compass test? I'm 20 this year graduating this year with diploma and waiting for enlistment. Anything I can do on self improvement to increase my chance of getting into SIA?
Thanks.
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hi You_Zhi
ive been through a similar situation as well.
I did not even pass the compass test back in JC days.
But I tried again after Uni and was declared to be suitable to be a pilot on my 2nd try.
I guess if you really want to enter SIA, you should try to obtain a degree first?
After that, you can try the compass test again (I'm sure u can improve in future).
You can even try SIA directly after Uni as you are still 5-6yrs off the requirements now.
No worries and Gdluck!
ive been through a similar situation as well.
I did not even pass the compass test back in JC days.
But I tried again after Uni and was declared to be suitable to be a pilot on my 2nd try.
I guess if you really want to enter SIA, you should try to obtain a degree first?
After that, you can try the compass test again (I'm sure u can improve in future).
You can even try SIA directly after Uni as you are still 5-6yrs off the requirements now.
No worries and Gdluck!
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Hi Blomqvist,
Thanks for the reply. Yes, I'm in the midst of securing a place in the university before my NS. I guess aptitude can be improve my practice? By the way are you in SIA now?
Thanks for the reply. Yes, I'm in the midst of securing a place in the university before my NS. I guess aptitude can be improve my practice? By the way are you in SIA now?
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hi guys.. new to this forum. was just wondering if they take our national service PES status into consideration? cos i was temporarily down pes to C for a few months during my training for a back injury.
thanks!
thanks!
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hi You_Zhi
Nope Im not with SIA now.
was a SIA reject.
but still Decided to try my luck in the commercial pilot industry now.
Time is on ur side.
No rush!
get a degree first.
I guess you can slowly re-evaluate later on?
gdluck!
Nope Im not with SIA now.
was a SIA reject.
but still Decided to try my luck in the commercial pilot industry now.
Time is on ur side.
No rush!
get a degree first.
I guess you can slowly re-evaluate later on?
gdluck!