CRM summed up
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Crew interaction between two experienced pilots will exist on a different level to that of a senior Captain/junior First Officer combination.To insist upon a singular and rigid format of CRM and apply that format to each and every flightdeck,regardless of crew make-up,would be unrealistic.
Politeness and mutual respect are common to differing formats(or levels) of CRM.However,other factors such as advocacy and assertion on the part of the co-pilot and the receptivity of the Captain to that advocacy and assertion will by necessity differ.The right to advocate and assert will still exist but will manifest itself differently.
The problems arise when the CRM format and crew combination are mis-matched.A Captain not listening to the counsel of a First Officer,whose levels of airmanship and cognitive judgement are above and beyond his rank,can be lethal.A First Officer who uses the egalitarian spirit of CRM to his advantage,who demands the privileges that it affords without the pre-requisite levels of airmanship and cognitive judgement,is rarely lethal but no less distressing.
If you've a modicum of social adeptness,education and upbringing,you're unlikely to ever need a CRM course in your life.
Politeness and mutual respect are common to differing formats(or levels) of CRM.However,other factors such as advocacy and assertion on the part of the co-pilot and the receptivity of the Captain to that advocacy and assertion will by necessity differ.The right to advocate and assert will still exist but will manifest itself differently.
The problems arise when the CRM format and crew combination are mis-matched.A Captain not listening to the counsel of a First Officer,whose levels of airmanship and cognitive judgement are above and beyond his rank,can be lethal.A First Officer who uses the egalitarian spirit of CRM to his advantage,who demands the privileges that it affords without the pre-requisite levels of airmanship and cognitive judgement,is rarely lethal but no less distressing.
If you've a modicum of social adeptness,education and upbringing,you're unlikely to ever need a CRM course in your life.
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If you've a modicum of social adeptness,education and upbringing,you're unlikely to ever need a CRM course in your life - Rananim
Have to say that the above smacks of the 'CRM is not my problem' attitude. I do know what you mean but please, we can all learn and there are tricks and models that even those who can sell ice to eskimos can benefit from.
Have to say that the above smacks of the 'CRM is not my problem' attitude. I do know what you mean but please, we can all learn and there are tricks and models that even those who can sell ice to eskimos can benefit from.
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Rananim is quite correct, SB.
The Captain, who has the modicum of social correctness, education etc, does not benefit much from the CRM courses now offered, IMO.
Said Captain has seen it all before while he was a First Officer, oftentimes operating under the authority of an overbearing Captain and, having the social correctness, education (etc), has long ago decided that he will not do likewise when he is the Captain.
About the only positive development of CRM is to teach others to get along with the overbearing Captain who is not going to change his ways, no matter how many CRM courses he is subjected to...ever.
Further, if a First Officer tries to use his CRM training to try to 'outrank' the Commander on occasion, he will many times find that the fleet manager/chief pilot is unlikely to appreciate same, and said F/O will be burning brides at a very rapid rate.
In short, he is likely to be 'stepped on', big time.
Just the way it is, in many airlines.
The Captain, who has the modicum of social correctness, education etc, does not benefit much from the CRM courses now offered, IMO.
Said Captain has seen it all before while he was a First Officer, oftentimes operating under the authority of an overbearing Captain and, having the social correctness, education (etc), has long ago decided that he will not do likewise when he is the Captain.
About the only positive development of CRM is to teach others to get along with the overbearing Captain who is not going to change his ways, no matter how many CRM courses he is subjected to...ever.
Further, if a First Officer tries to use his CRM training to try to 'outrank' the Commander on occasion, he will many times find that the fleet manager/chief pilot is unlikely to appreciate same, and said F/O will be burning brides at a very rapid rate.
In short, he is likely to be 'stepped on', big time.
Just the way it is, in many airlines.
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411A I don't see how to accept your view that a (decent, upstanding) Captain doesn't benefit from CRM training let alone Rananim's that any (decent, upstanding) pilot won't need a CRM course in his life.
As I see it, to support these views would require either a belief that CRM has not benefited our industry or a belief that somehow today’s crews are naturally better than they used to be!
To support these views one would have to believe that CRM is a static and unchanging field with no productive research being carried out and none of its findings being brought into the training arena. One would have to believe that today’s increasingly global pilot workforce is somehow innately aware of cultural differences when they travel far and wide. One would have to believe that just because he is a good bloke to have a beer with he will be a good Captain/FO/SO/FEng.
I can't support any of these premises! Now I will add that some CRM instruction can be of little use, any teacher can fail to get the message home/use the correct materials/pitch to the wrong level etc and some who teach just aren’t made to, but at least a bad CRM course brings up CRM and may make people think about it!
To belittle the achievements of CRM by suggesting that a 'modicum' of anything renders it useless is, IMHO, unhelpful. It creates the gaps for those who need enhanced CRM skills but think they don't to dismiss CRM training when it could help them and those they fly with. Even if you don't need better CRM, even if you are the wonderpilot, then at least your presence on a good CRM course and your input to it can help others on that course.
We have all been on courses we feel we didn’t benefit from but I believe CRM can be valuable and that it has a place. Rounding on CRM training as an entity and shooting it down over the Captain/FO debate would, I feel, be a mistake.
As I see it, to support these views would require either a belief that CRM has not benefited our industry or a belief that somehow today’s crews are naturally better than they used to be!
To support these views one would have to believe that CRM is a static and unchanging field with no productive research being carried out and none of its findings being brought into the training arena. One would have to believe that today’s increasingly global pilot workforce is somehow innately aware of cultural differences when they travel far and wide. One would have to believe that just because he is a good bloke to have a beer with he will be a good Captain/FO/SO/FEng.
I can't support any of these premises! Now I will add that some CRM instruction can be of little use, any teacher can fail to get the message home/use the correct materials/pitch to the wrong level etc and some who teach just aren’t made to, but at least a bad CRM course brings up CRM and may make people think about it!
To belittle the achievements of CRM by suggesting that a 'modicum' of anything renders it useless is, IMHO, unhelpful. It creates the gaps for those who need enhanced CRM skills but think they don't to dismiss CRM training when it could help them and those they fly with. Even if you don't need better CRM, even if you are the wonderpilot, then at least your presence on a good CRM course and your input to it can help others on that course.
We have all been on courses we feel we didn’t benefit from but I believe CRM can be valuable and that it has a place. Rounding on CRM training as an entity and shooting it down over the Captain/FO debate would, I feel, be a mistake.
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Crm course did not exist when I started in 1964 and the usa selection tests were based on the staynine military ww2 single fighter pilot selection profile.
Some years later after a United out a fuel incident it was found the cockpit was full of the right stuff for fighters but basically the wrong stuff for multi crew.
United then did a lot of work to retrain attitudes of its pilots with a Swedish psyco. friend of mine attached to SAS who wrote the CRM manuals for them.
The selection tests are today different from 1964 and the wrong stuff has either been modified by education or gradually eliminated as the pilots retire.
Teaching CRM to crews is a very interesting job and different techniques are required in different parts of the world.
It gets really interesting and is essential where the crews are multie national and also multi faith.
Some years later after a United out a fuel incident it was found the cockpit was full of the right stuff for fighters but basically the wrong stuff for multi crew.
United then did a lot of work to retrain attitudes of its pilots with a Swedish psyco. friend of mine attached to SAS who wrote the CRM manuals for them.
The selection tests are today different from 1964 and the wrong stuff has either been modified by education or gradually eliminated as the pilots retire.
Teaching CRM to crews is a very interesting job and different techniques are required in different parts of the world.
It gets really interesting and is essential where the crews are multie national and also multi faith.
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CRM vs. normal social skills...
I think that I have developed a fairly wide panoply of social skills from living in a multi-cultural environment, but I still found CRM courses to be very useful.
The thing is, in normal social terms, I have learned how to either charm someone or else avoid them if I find them to be just terminally obnoxious. But in the cockpit of a true multi-crew aircraft I had to learn how to work with people rather than avoid them, even when they had obviously developed in rather unfortunate ways, personality-wise.
In purely social terms it can be an absolute nightmare to have to share a cockpit with someone who may pride himself on being out of step with life, so to speak. There was nothing in my background or experience that really gave me the fullest range of skills for that! We just don't need to know! I was always able to get away from people like this. Or, in a single-pilot aircraft operated with two crew, just give the troublesome one something to occupy his attention in a harmless sort of way. Sitting and brooding was a perfectly fine option in my opinion.
Then I did a CRM course, which was a real eye-opener.
We did stuff like a team exercise where one had to get a clue from each member, learning how to filter out, politely, useless stuff from the gabby one but also how to draw out the reticent one who was sitting on the key to the puzzle.
Another time we had a survival scenario where the dominant personality (an Aussie, of course!) managed to persuade everyone else but me that a trek across 20 miles of desert by night was a very good idea compared to just sitting and waiting to be rescued. The debrief on that one was fascinating.
So I wouldn't want to go overboard on the 'touchy-feely' stuff but I wouldn't want to operate with a CRM course every so often.
The thing is, in normal social terms, I have learned how to either charm someone or else avoid them if I find them to be just terminally obnoxious. But in the cockpit of a true multi-crew aircraft I had to learn how to work with people rather than avoid them, even when they had obviously developed in rather unfortunate ways, personality-wise.
In purely social terms it can be an absolute nightmare to have to share a cockpit with someone who may pride himself on being out of step with life, so to speak. There was nothing in my background or experience that really gave me the fullest range of skills for that! We just don't need to know! I was always able to get away from people like this. Or, in a single-pilot aircraft operated with two crew, just give the troublesome one something to occupy his attention in a harmless sort of way. Sitting and brooding was a perfectly fine option in my opinion.
Then I did a CRM course, which was a real eye-opener.
We did stuff like a team exercise where one had to get a clue from each member, learning how to filter out, politely, useless stuff from the gabby one but also how to draw out the reticent one who was sitting on the key to the puzzle.
Another time we had a survival scenario where the dominant personality (an Aussie, of course!) managed to persuade everyone else but me that a trek across 20 miles of desert by night was a very good idea compared to just sitting and waiting to be rescued. The debrief on that one was fascinating.
So I wouldn't want to go overboard on the 'touchy-feely' stuff but I wouldn't want to operate with a CRM course every so often.
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About 18 months ago, I arranged for a CRM instructor to come over for a day to talk to our Inspector Cadre about CRM, error chains, et al. It went down very well.
I am a big fan. It is amazing how many people lack basic interactive skills - esp. in management. CRM provides a framework where a degree of civility can be maintained.
I am a big fan. It is amazing how many people lack basic interactive skills - esp. in management. CRM provides a framework where a degree of civility can be maintained.
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Did you mention management!?
Once I got on the CRM bandwagon and became some sort of true believer I did ask why the Company didn't bother to apply some of these lessons when Management was dealing with we plebs.
You know that 'Who farted?' look you sometimes get, despite having just said something that seemed to make perfect sense to you? That was my answer to that one! CRM is for lower life forms; once you advance from the cockpit to management you can forget all that stuff.
You know that 'Who farted?' look you sometimes get, despite having just said something that seemed to make perfect sense to you? That was my answer to that one! CRM is for lower life forms; once you advance from the cockpit to management you can forget all that stuff.
This link seems like an appropriate break in your discussions to consider before and after CRM or you will know it when you see it.
http://fromtheflightdeck.com/assorte...hTheMighty.wmv
http://fromtheflightdeck.com/assorte...hTheMighty.wmv
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It is getting bumpy - enough to spill the coffee and the captain thinks it will probably stay that way. He says to the F/O "Ask ATC for flight level 350 and we'll try and get out of this stuff".
F/O looks at his watch and says can we wait another five minutes when we will be on a new sector controller and he won't have to coordinate with the one we are on now?
Captain grits his teeth and thinks: Do I say do as your bloody well told and ask for F/L 350 NOW.
Or does he think OK I'm not in the mood to go through a big explanation of the pros and cons of climbing or staying and I don't want to make him feel that his opinion is not needed here, so I'll just say "That's fine by me just give ATC a call when you feel the time is right"
The passengers start to throw up one by one and the captain thinks what a weak kneed idiot I am for giving in to the F/O just to make him feel good.
The F/O thinks: I like flying with old Joe - at least he lets me make the decisions on my leg.
If you were a ashen faced fare paying passenger, or a harassed flight attendant stumbling in the aisle, tell me which option would you like the captain to take?
If there was one thing I hated when I was in the LH seat was this reluctance by some type of first officers to carry out a straight forward request without argueing the toss. If it is a definate safety of flight matter - then few captains would (should?) resent a F/O speaking out in a measured manner.
But it is all too easy to incur a simmering resentment from either side of the cockpit when a direct request is made and the other side jacks up or deliberately delays an action.
CRM courses rarely cover these small aspects of pilot behaviour which are so important in terms of a good working atmosphere.
Instead we hear endless repeat stories of CRM derring do in USA where a DC10 lost lots of systems and the cockpit workload was shared between a bunch of guys up front to almost a happy ending.
F/O looks at his watch and says can we wait another five minutes when we will be on a new sector controller and he won't have to coordinate with the one we are on now?
Captain grits his teeth and thinks: Do I say do as your bloody well told and ask for F/L 350 NOW.
Or does he think OK I'm not in the mood to go through a big explanation of the pros and cons of climbing or staying and I don't want to make him feel that his opinion is not needed here, so I'll just say "That's fine by me just give ATC a call when you feel the time is right"
The passengers start to throw up one by one and the captain thinks what a weak kneed idiot I am for giving in to the F/O just to make him feel good.
The F/O thinks: I like flying with old Joe - at least he lets me make the decisions on my leg.
If you were a ashen faced fare paying passenger, or a harassed flight attendant stumbling in the aisle, tell me which option would you like the captain to take?
If there was one thing I hated when I was in the LH seat was this reluctance by some type of first officers to carry out a straight forward request without argueing the toss. If it is a definate safety of flight matter - then few captains would (should?) resent a F/O speaking out in a measured manner.
But it is all too easy to incur a simmering resentment from either side of the cockpit when a direct request is made and the other side jacks up or deliberately delays an action.
CRM courses rarely cover these small aspects of pilot behaviour which are so important in terms of a good working atmosphere.
Instead we hear endless repeat stories of CRM derring do in USA where a DC10 lost lots of systems and the cockpit workload was shared between a bunch of guys up front to almost a happy ending.
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Hear, hear!
One of the funniest, most aggravating ones I ever had was when I told the F/O to 'Ask XXX Tower for a visual, please. Tell him we have the field in sight.'
Under ICAO rules one must have the field in sight, but we were about 20 miles off. The F/O, highly skeptical of my approach to life and to flying at the best of times, just looked at me, as if to say, 'Captain, you are asking me to tell a porky'.
I looked him in the eye and told him to go ahead and ask, when I would show him something surprising. He went ahead and got me my visual. Then I asked him if he saw that little speck of white out there on the horizon, almost lost in a sea of green. 'Yes, but...' he answered.
'Keep watching it. That's the control tower at XXX.' And it was.
On the other hand, I was poling along as an F/O operating as Pilot Flying when I could hear the traffic stacking up over the Lagos VOR. I told the Captain that I was reducing to holding speed now, since we would be holding and we were reasonably tight on fuel. (Delays can amount to 30 minutes easily, so that every kilo is precious.)
'You don't want to slow down 40 miles out. That is way too far.'
'Oh yes I do. We are going to be in the stack for a while. It's go-slow at Lagos, I'm afraid.'
'Well, I wouldn't slow down this far out. 40 miles is too far.'
'Noted, thank you. Let me slow down and we will see how it goes, okay?'
Guess what? I was right! Not that I saved our lives or anything like that but we didn't lose any time and we had some extra fuel to hold with.
He was the expert on the airplane and I knew what was going to happen at my home base. I would have preferred that he just go along with my rather innocuous decision and nail me in the debrief if it was a screw-up but we still got the job done.
Under ICAO rules one must have the field in sight, but we were about 20 miles off. The F/O, highly skeptical of my approach to life and to flying at the best of times, just looked at me, as if to say, 'Captain, you are asking me to tell a porky'.
I looked him in the eye and told him to go ahead and ask, when I would show him something surprising. He went ahead and got me my visual. Then I asked him if he saw that little speck of white out there on the horizon, almost lost in a sea of green. 'Yes, but...' he answered.
'Keep watching it. That's the control tower at XXX.' And it was.
On the other hand, I was poling along as an F/O operating as Pilot Flying when I could hear the traffic stacking up over the Lagos VOR. I told the Captain that I was reducing to holding speed now, since we would be holding and we were reasonably tight on fuel. (Delays can amount to 30 minutes easily, so that every kilo is precious.)
'You don't want to slow down 40 miles out. That is way too far.'
'Oh yes I do. We are going to be in the stack for a while. It's go-slow at Lagos, I'm afraid.'
'Well, I wouldn't slow down this far out. 40 miles is too far.'
'Noted, thank you. Let me slow down and we will see how it goes, okay?'
Guess what? I was right! Not that I saved our lives or anything like that but we didn't lose any time and we had some extra fuel to hold with.
He was the expert on the airplane and I knew what was going to happen at my home base. I would have preferred that he just go along with my rather innocuous decision and nail me in the debrief if it was a screw-up but we still got the job done.
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Ladies and Gentlemen
I have just spent some time ploughing through this thread which has clearly generated some interest. I am a pilot of some 20 years and have been a CRM instructor for 10, running my own CRM training company for 8 years. Some of the problems highlighted here are alarming and if you have the situation where the young FO believes that there should be no gradient in the cockpit then you must kick ass with your internal/external training organisations, because thats where the problem is (likewise the steep gradients common in many airlines years ago are not acceptable these days in terms of safe working practices).
There must be a cross cockpit gradient, albeit a small one. It has been proved time and time again that 'no-gradient' is a very dangerous thing. The Capt is responsible under international law for the safety of the aircraft. Organisations must grip this, as the older guys will retire in the next 10 - 15 years, leaving in some places (so it seems here) a generation of pilots who will not make a decision unless they have had a referendum.
Young pilots must be taught that it is correct to question those, statements or decisions that they believe could compromise flight safety if they are carried through to completion(i.e but at all other times get on with it!), however, they also need to be taught that a small Cross cockpit gradient is a good thing. Remember that in the earlier years of pilot training a lot of training is attitudal. If we dont teach them these concepts they will do whatever else it is they are taught.
There are many good CRM trainers out there, but I browse a lot of CRM forums and there are some academics out there bringing into place some really wacky ideas, without real aviation knowledge. Be careful!
CRM is simple and it needs to be kept that way.
I have just spent some time ploughing through this thread which has clearly generated some interest. I am a pilot of some 20 years and have been a CRM instructor for 10, running my own CRM training company for 8 years. Some of the problems highlighted here are alarming and if you have the situation where the young FO believes that there should be no gradient in the cockpit then you must kick ass with your internal/external training organisations, because thats where the problem is (likewise the steep gradients common in many airlines years ago are not acceptable these days in terms of safe working practices).
There must be a cross cockpit gradient, albeit a small one. It has been proved time and time again that 'no-gradient' is a very dangerous thing. The Capt is responsible under international law for the safety of the aircraft. Organisations must grip this, as the older guys will retire in the next 10 - 15 years, leaving in some places (so it seems here) a generation of pilots who will not make a decision unless they have had a referendum.
Young pilots must be taught that it is correct to question those, statements or decisions that they believe could compromise flight safety if they are carried through to completion(i.e but at all other times get on with it!), however, they also need to be taught that a small Cross cockpit gradient is a good thing. Remember that in the earlier years of pilot training a lot of training is attitudal. If we dont teach them these concepts they will do whatever else it is they are taught.
There are many good CRM trainers out there, but I browse a lot of CRM forums and there are some academics out there bringing into place some really wacky ideas, without real aviation knowledge. Be careful!
CRM is simple and it needs to be kept that way.
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CRM summed up
CRM--very simplly summed up
C= Consideration, R =Respect M=Manners.
Did we not learn, were they not instilled, these simple values at our mothers knee so to speak, at home/ school?
Have we not experienced the consequences one time or the other when we have strayed from the simple basics of manners and attitudes towards others?
True educated professionals with good upbringing should know how to interact , conduct themselves in a professional environment.
It is a well known fact that in a contained professional environment, as inflight, locked in for hours, a true professional should keep every trait not condusive to a safe flight far away . cultural, personal, likes / dislikes for the company policies, management atitudes, anger/ frustrations rising from agendas personal or work related. These should not raise its ugly dark horns, to distract the professional from performing their duties towards passengers/ the team of flight crew.
Maybe my thinking is very idealistic- but is that not what CRM is all about?
Grown up men & women being taught right behaviour and manners ? Tut Tut, and at whose cost and what cost?
C= Consideration, R =Respect M=Manners.
Did we not learn, were they not instilled, these simple values at our mothers knee so to speak, at home/ school?
Have we not experienced the consequences one time or the other when we have strayed from the simple basics of manners and attitudes towards others?
True educated professionals with good upbringing should know how to interact , conduct themselves in a professional environment.
It is a well known fact that in a contained professional environment, as inflight, locked in for hours, a true professional should keep every trait not condusive to a safe flight far away . cultural, personal, likes / dislikes for the company policies, management atitudes, anger/ frustrations rising from agendas personal or work related. These should not raise its ugly dark horns, to distract the professional from performing their duties towards passengers/ the team of flight crew.
Maybe my thinking is very idealistic- but is that not what CRM is all about?
Grown up men & women being taught right behaviour and manners ? Tut Tut, and at whose cost and what cost?
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Nope - almost (but not entirely) totally wrong.
In fact, you have come out with one of the most common and most fatal misconceptions about what CRM is and is not.
CRM is about using all resources available to you in the most effective manner possible in order to bring the flight to a safe and expeditious conclusion.
It is NOT about being polite to everybody. It is not about everyone in the crew having a nice, warm, fuzzy feeling. It is not about respecting other people. It is not about not offending their feelings by failing to let their opinions affect your decision.
If the only way to get one member of the crew to do his/her job is to shout and scream and hit him/her about the head with a Jepps manual, then CRM dictates that is what you should do.
In fact, you have come out with one of the most common and most fatal misconceptions about what CRM is and is not.
CRM is about using all resources available to you in the most effective manner possible in order to bring the flight to a safe and expeditious conclusion.
It is NOT about being polite to everybody. It is not about everyone in the crew having a nice, warm, fuzzy feeling. It is not about respecting other people. It is not about not offending their feelings by failing to let their opinions affect your decision.
If the only way to get one member of the crew to do his/her job is to shout and scream and hit him/her about the head with a Jepps manual, then CRM dictates that is what you should do.
Entirely concur with Huggy. The only phrase I would add is"Using appropriate behaviour to..." Appropriate may in some circumstances mean autocratic (There's no time to argue - just do it) right through to meaning, in different circumstances, democratic (There's plenty of time and this is a complex problem - what do you think?).
I have always found the idea of "appropriateness" very helpful in explaining CRM. It is most emphatically NOT about making everyone feel warm and cosy.
I have always found the idea of "appropriateness" very helpful in explaining CRM. It is most emphatically NOT about making everyone feel warm and cosy.
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Bluntly So.
Well said - I agree wholeheartedly. Commonsense airmanship ensures that "resources" are used appropriately. There is no point in looking around the cockpit and saying "thinks - what "resources" haven't I used yet".
One often hears aficionado's of CRM recounting of the bad old days when captains were perceived as stern unbending characters who sought no opinions from their first officers and were therefore a safety hazard.
Well, these characters may well have existed in some airlines, but I must say that after several decades of military and airline flying in Australia, I was fortunate enough never to have run across such types in the cockpit.
Did they really exist in such numbers as to be the catalyst for the beginning of the cottage industry known as CRM? I doubt it, personally. Then who started the CRM bandwagon? Aviation psychologists perhaps?
Well said - I agree wholeheartedly. Commonsense airmanship ensures that "resources" are used appropriately. There is no point in looking around the cockpit and saying "thinks - what "resources" haven't I used yet".
One often hears aficionado's of CRM recounting of the bad old days when captains were perceived as stern unbending characters who sought no opinions from their first officers and were therefore a safety hazard.
Well, these characters may well have existed in some airlines, but I must say that after several decades of military and airline flying in Australia, I was fortunate enough never to have run across such types in the cockpit.
Did they really exist in such numbers as to be the catalyst for the beginning of the cottage industry known as CRM? I doubt it, personally. Then who started the CRM bandwagon? Aviation psychologists perhaps?
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There is no point in looking around the cockpit and saying "thinks - what "resources" haven't I used yet".
One often hears aficionado's of CRM recounting of the bad old days when captains were perceived as stern unbending characters who sought no opinions from their first officers and were therefore a safety hazard.
Well, these characters may well have existed in some airlines, but I must say that after several decades of military and airline flying in Australia, I was fortunate enough never to have run across such types in the cockpit.
Did they really exist in such numbers as to be the catalyst for the beginning of the cottage industry known as CRM? I doubt it, personally.
You are also making a big wrong assumption about what CRM is. It is not about telling overbearing captains to wind their necks in. It is about using all resources available to you when the **** hits the fan in order to bring the flight to a successful conclusion. It is not about being polite. It is not about having lots of friends around you with broad smiles. It is not about telling you what to say. It is a method of training to persuade people to open their eyes, remove the blinkers, look around, and allow a lot more information in than some have in the past, to encourage them to use all sources of information, to encourage them to question their own assumptions, to get them to analyse their attitudes, to recognise when they trap themselves in an error chain, to see the limitations imposed by human psychology, by human factors.
The only people I have met who ever thought CRM was a waste of time and that they didn't need it were the people most in need of it.
Grandpa Aerotart
My thoughts on CRM...having experienced some very 'old fashioned' Captains and a few captains in the rhs!
Come aspects of CRM such as learning effective communication are essential lessons that are not necesarily possessed by people with even the most advanced intellect/common sense/manners. How to ask a question and how to raise concerns appropriately are sometimes counter intuitive.
Learning the traps of our own human condition is essential.
Having said that I believe that CRM has been hijacked by the shrinks who see it as the path to riches via lucrative consultant contracts.
Over the years I have had to direct a captain not decend below MORA in IMC and fend off an F/O that wanted to follow a preceding Boeing, on the same airway but much lower, left and right of track because his radar was 'better than ours'...on my sector. Not only was I the aircraft commander but the CP & C&T on type...in the end it came down to 'ENOUGH'!!!
A cockpit with an inappropraite cockpit gradient...in whatever form that takes, is an unpleasant and unsafe environment.
It's just a pity that the VAST preponderance of companies view CRM as a necesary evil that only applies to pilots...and to a lesser extent FAs.
The old saw about those who deride the value of CRM the most need it the most applies equally to Captains, FOs and 'management'...even many management pilots.
Chuck
Come aspects of CRM such as learning effective communication are essential lessons that are not necesarily possessed by people with even the most advanced intellect/common sense/manners. How to ask a question and how to raise concerns appropriately are sometimes counter intuitive.
Learning the traps of our own human condition is essential.
Having said that I believe that CRM has been hijacked by the shrinks who see it as the path to riches via lucrative consultant contracts.
Over the years I have had to direct a captain not decend below MORA in IMC and fend off an F/O that wanted to follow a preceding Boeing, on the same airway but much lower, left and right of track because his radar was 'better than ours'...on my sector. Not only was I the aircraft commander but the CP & C&T on type...in the end it came down to 'ENOUGH'!!!
A cockpit with an inappropraite cockpit gradient...in whatever form that takes, is an unpleasant and unsafe environment.
It's just a pity that the VAST preponderance of companies view CRM as a necesary evil that only applies to pilots...and to a lesser extent FAs.
The old saw about those who deride the value of CRM the most need it the most applies equally to Captains, FOs and 'management'...even many management pilots.
Chuck
