Milan, and lessons learnt?
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 199
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From: flightdeck/earlyhours commute
Milan, and lessons learnt?
I was In milan linate a few days ago. First time.
Interesting thing.
We were given a taxi clearance to the holding point of the active runway. The use of non-standard phrases by ATC meant that this clearance could have been interpreted as a line up clearance to the same runway.
An a/c was on approximately 2 mile final on reaching the holding point.
Weather was nice though!
So we could see what was happening!!
Not sure that issuing prison sentences (as per last report on milan incident) is going to help.
Any thoughts?
Interesting thing.
We were given a taxi clearance to the holding point of the active runway. The use of non-standard phrases by ATC meant that this clearance could have been interpreted as a line up clearance to the same runway.
An a/c was on approximately 2 mile final on reaching the holding point.
Weather was nice though!
So we could see what was happening!!
Not sure that issuing prison sentences (as per last report on milan incident) is going to help.
Any thoughts?
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 794
Likes: 21
From: England
Many factors contributed to the linate accident. ATC instructions at any airport can often be mis-interpreted whether or not standard phraseology is used so my thoughts are:
- always be vigilant
- if you are uncertain about the ATC instruction received then question it.
- always read back ATC instructions, particularly when a runway line up or crossing is involved.
Safety is paramount.
- always be vigilant
- if you are uncertain about the ATC instruction received then question it.
- always read back ATC instructions, particularly when a runway line up or crossing is involved.
Safety is paramount.
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,704
Likes: 1
From: Who can say?
Agreed. In questioning clearances, instructions etc., I would also strongly advise caution against "confirmation bias" as well.
In other words, instead of asking "Confirm ABC123 cleared FL150?", ask "Say again our cleared flight level? ABC123".
Especially when in a viatal stage of flight, or when your action will be difficult to reverse (e.g. entering the runway), if either pilot (or FE) is in any doubt, always check, and check again with ATC until both (or all) of you are in no doubt as to what it is they want or have cleared you to do.
In other words, instead of asking "Confirm ABC123 cleared FL150?", ask "Say again our cleared flight level? ABC123".
Especially when in a viatal stage of flight, or when your action will be difficult to reverse (e.g. entering the runway), if either pilot (or FE) is in any doubt, always check, and check again with ATC until both (or all) of you are in no doubt as to what it is they want or have cleared you to do.
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 204
Likes: 0
From: Mahlangeni
I agree with Captain Stable and Muskat90. Rather pose OPEN questions than closed questions.
But as the Linate accident shows, sometimes one is vigilant (SAS) but the other guys are maybe not. It is all well to have situational awareness and not to fall prey to confirmation bias, only to have somebody do the wrong thing while you have the feeling that they are doing the right thing, but cannot actually see that they are doing the right thing, i.e. when in LOW VIS conditions.
We should all be more stricter with ourselves and always ask ourselves the "What if..." question.
A couple of good keywords:
Preparation
Teamwork
Vigilance
Trust
But as the Linate accident shows, sometimes one is vigilant (SAS) but the other guys are maybe not. It is all well to have situational awareness and not to fall prey to confirmation bias, only to have somebody do the wrong thing while you have the feeling that they are doing the right thing, but cannot actually see that they are doing the right thing, i.e. when in LOW VIS conditions.
We should all be more stricter with ourselves and always ask ourselves the "What if..." question.
A couple of good keywords:
Preparation
Teamwork
Vigilance
Trust
