For those who doubt my memory - I wasn't on the night flight - the record shows that there were at least three - possibly four pure jet, passenger flights affected by the Indonesian volcano - two southbound at least one northbound and at least one internal. I think one of the southbound was night and the other may have been daylight or night but ours was daylight. There have been over ninety (90) flights worldwide recorded as adversely affected by ingesting volcanic ash (I don't think that includes old Soviet Union flights).

Turned back to SFO and landed back there a couple of hours ago.

May I remind you that Norway shut down their airspace on wednesday evening, some 12+ hours before the UK. Sweden and Finland also had partial closures already wednesday evening.

engine particle control seperator!
 

That is an interesting concept ..you might also add windscreen protection panels as well..I have changed a couple of volcanic abraded screens that do become opaque in PNG!
Also the paint scheme also does'nt fare well.
Main worry is those burners deep in the combustion chambers that have very minute air holes to swirl the fuel into a nice pattern ..they have a tendancy to block l! The fire goes out! Gliding commences!! al la BA 747
:ok:

Re-heat, reptile
 

No demand for real time trial by the media.

No conspiracy theory either. Given the immense damage and the real potential for destroying our industry, it is of vital importance that the decision-making process is fully transparent and understood.

Regards

S

Stoic

"No conspiracy theory either. Given the immense damage and the real potential for destroying our industry, it is of vital importance that the decision-making process is fully transparent and understood."

That is an entirely reasonable position. The trouble is that your earlier posts all default to the presumption that there has been an over-reaction, so your last post rings hollow.

pretty picture
 

Can't find an English version at the moment but this is a good link to display the problem Ny: Beregnet spredning per 16. april kl 21 - met.no
:sad:

Dogsbody: "Sire, Carruthers is dead, flew through an ash cloud that we'd warned him about."

Top Dog: "Jolly bad show, better close the airspace then."

Sound of hooves disappearing into the distance and stable door flapping in the ash-laden wind.

With apologies to mods but three days of news coverage and nearly 30 pages on here......

What are NATS up to?

If you current data for the next 18 hours, there is a clear corridor into PIK, GLA and EDI.

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/aviation...1271483349.png

Should they not be working hand it hand with the met office to understand the issue rather than making decisions 2 or 3 hours later

However with the further eruptions, its not going to be looking too good for the next few days.

Totally agreed!

It's fair to say that a good 25-33% of flights from this country that are heading southbound could still take place virtually risk free at a lower level. I'm not saying my numbers are correct but an example might be: A departure out of Gatwick could trod along 100 nm south at 6000ft before being out of the risk zone and then climbing higher and proceeding normally. Clearly this means temporary changes to airspace classification across borders which would affect GA but thats a lot better than having commercial traffic at a complete standstill for a month!

Just an idea, don't shoot me down!

Is the risk not from 0 - FL280

The Dornier research aircraft that flew from Cranfield yesterday reported THREE distinct layers of contaminants BELOW 10 Thousand feet!

Aer Lingus US bound flights for Saturday cancelled
 

Aer Lingus US bound flights have been cancelled today after resuming yesterday. 5 flights arrived from US this morning but all outbound flights have been cancelled.

That's called a walk-back, Stoic. At least you realize it.

So you get airborne from Glasgow and head West climbing above FL200, then turn south. Somewhere around the Brest peninsula you lose an engine, but that's OK because you stabilise at FL220. Your options now are to fly back to Glasgow, press on to Santander or descend through volcanic ash on one engine. The dust cloud from SFC to FL200 covers most of France and South-West of the UK goes out to almost 20W.

I know that this will have a significant effect on airlines that are struggling, but the big hush would be much much worse.

Right, now off to get the BBQ ready for this afternoon.

BBC now saying NATS have announced no flts until 18th 0100BST earliest.

Rongotai

Given that, like one or two other posters on this thread, I used to fly around visible ash clouds in other parts of the world (e.g.Alaska, Indonesia), I must, I now realise, have flown 1000 miles downwind of active volcanoes through invisible ash clouds on numerous occasions. Sorry about the scratches on the engines Lord King!

Regards

S

Reptile

Can you clarify please?

That's a common sense, not insane.
How many more times people will point to FAF F18 who flew through the ash on a purpose?

If we not back to the air by Monday, Tuesday morning we start to fire people. Other airlines the same.

may just be my cars needed a wash anyway, however evidence of a gritty substance on the cars this morning down here in CAVOK Kent.

Royalistflyer

"I was on the BA flight that lost all four engines simultaneously in '82 due to volcanic dust ingestion."


Are you saying that two BA flights lost all four engines that day...:hmm:

Reality check
 

As Old Chinese Philosopher once said,

"May you live in interesting times...!"

Human race has been abusing our fragile planet, the only one we've got, for a couple of centuries. Many posters on this thread are facing up to the distinct possibility that the AIRLINE INDUSTRY MAY VERY WELL GO DOWN THE PROVERBIAL....

We will have to grow our own veg, instead of importing green beans from Kenya.

We will have to holiday at home, instead of St. Kitts.

People with second dwellings in Spain will have to choose one or the other.

Tearful young couples stranded at the airport will have to get married at the local registrar, instead of Mexico.

A lot of ATPLs and CC on the breadline... Airlines going bust. Stockmarket into another downward spiral....

Dreadful to contemplate, all of it. BUT!!! Certainly launching airliners willynilly from US without clear skies ahead seems reckless endangerment to me, waiting for my son to visit from Orlando......

I can wait, until the boffins and the weathermen have got it sorted. I don't want his 777 to end up with ash in every orifice.
That's the real bottom line.

Stoic
 

Okay I'll clarify.

This is your first post:
A fairly adversarial approach to the authorities and what they have done so far, wouldn't you say? You are looking for someone to blame when nobody has yet agreed that anyone is at fault. Why mention a whitewash when there is no evidence of any and nobody but you is asking about one?

Then when you are called on this aggro, you make a watered-down statement that nobody will disagree with as an attempt to justify your earlier stance:

Nobody would refute that - we all understand the need for transparency and trust in the regulatory authorities with whom we deal. But that's a far cry from what you originally said, hence the 'walkback' comment of mine.

That's all I meant. If you believe there has been a cover-up or whitewash, then fine, that's your opinion, but back it up with some evidence or reasoning if you have it. Do you?

Edited for poor word choice.

This would be a good time to research aircraft carbon emissions and the effect of contrails on global climate.

Are there any piston aircraft that actually have some form of air filter on the intake system?

http://met.no/filestore/snap_2010041...g?size=470x355

certainly not for me when non essential

Low Level Flights
 

For those suggesting low level flights would be an option - it seems not.

This morning, ash is being detected as low as 4,000 feet and up through 15,000ft over some areas of the UK.

See:
Met Office: Icelandic volcano dust observations

Has anyone heard about any insurance companies voice about when it is safe to restart comercial operation? What kind of clearance would be needed to be fly the ac WITH valid insurance policy?

Reptile

With the greatest respect I wrote: Note the use of the future tense. Whitewashing is a great British tradition. (You may have seen earlier that it was suggested that our prime minister had taken ownership of the total airspace closure.)

Regards

S

This is now getting very serious, I work in ground ops in Norway, and everyone (apart from skeleton staff) is being laid off from Monday 06.00 at our airport. That's a lot of people worried I can tell you :(

This is an awful situation and I am getting concerned that airlines will soon start to fail. BA lost £50ish million over 7 days of strikes whilst still flying most of their pax. Surely this must been even more costly.
I have just watched BBC1 and the met expert suggests that this situation will continue whilst the volcano is erupting with only small windows to operate. The NW wind is very common and will continue on and off for weeks.
Add to this, the vulcanologists say there is no sign of a let up in in the activity and signs that there may even be an increase.

Am I being overly worried? Silly question.
Should we push for an early return to the skies? No.
Can the airlines call for government help? There is no govt til May.

I know there are 10's of 1000's of families stuck abroad burning through their cash reserves and desperate to get back to work. It will take many days to get them all back.

It is like watching a train crash in slow motion!!!

Hi all, I'm SLF who was due to fly with family on Thursday on VS015 to Orlando for my 4 year old daughter's first taste of Disney :(. Due to take off at 13:00 hrs, we were all at the gate waiting to board when the airspace was closed at 12:00 hrs.

From many years of flying I've long since learned not to get upset about these things, they just happen. Unfortunately the poor Virgin staff ended up having to call the police to protect them from the tattoo and sovereign brigade, which is a sad indictment of our society today!

We're re-booked for VS015 at 13:00 hrs on Monday, but reading between the lines I don't think this is going to happen. What are your educated opinions?

There is still a government, just no MPs.

Ash on cars
 

I live 3 miles SE of LHR.

Just taken dog for a walk and all the cars down our road have some kind of dust/ash on them. They look like they have not been cleaned for a couple of months.

And the missus has just rang from Egypt - hotels at thier resort have put thier rates up for stranded people. Which is nice of them.

Paca, does not look likeley in my opinion.

This is a big call, a very big call to take this action. If there is one thing Brits love more than a bit of health and safety drama.....its a good old enquiry. Whoever made the call to cost the economy billions of pounds is definately going to face an enquiry. Only then will we know if the action was justified or not.

A gold star for the first ppruner to post an article with the sentence "There have been calls for an enquiry into the decision to ground all air traffic over Britain, a move which cost the economy an estimated £xxx billon pounds....." I should have been a journalist.;)

Serious enough but it could get a lot worse I am afraid.
 

:mad:We should never panic of course or be too negative but last time this volcano erupted it lasted just over 1 year. As it was a very long time ago nobody knows exactly what the ash impact was on skies over Europe as aircrafts did not exist at the time.
Only a few months ago many scientists were saying that Eyjafjallajökull was not due to erupt soon and was under control and strictly monitored.
Basically there were no signs of an imminent eruption and nothing to worry.
The study of Nature is not a perfect discipline and especially Earthquakes and Volcanoes can behave in very unpredictable ways.
Maybe this is the beauty of nature.
Think of weather: how often the UK Met Office got the wrong weather forecast this year? Too often but then it is nature we are dealing with, what more can we do?
Not much really.
Hopefully we are lucky enough and it will all make history soon but chances are that this eruption might carry on for many more days if not weeks and the impact on aviation could be catastrophic.
Other larger neighbours volcanoes could activate too.:mad:
Our lovely planet is definitely in charge of our lives, as it should be by nature so this is entirely normal, nothing unusual by Earth's point of view.:ok:

If this will continue for weeks it could even mean the beginning of a better less stressfull life for us all. We do not know.

Nature is just reminding us that we are very little creatures temporarily living on this beautiful Planet. Nothing else really.

Rather than measuring National GDPs we should start measuring "National State of mind & Happiness" from now on. :E

Didn't I recognise the BBC 'Expert'? ex. BMA.:hmm:

do volcanoes sleep ? shes really waking up now after a bit of a lie in - impressive on the webcam

anyone know what the "clouds of dust" are coming from the left of the webcam, low down and in front of the volcano ? looks like something is going on up-wind ?

Pictures from the Icelandic Vulcano Eyjafjallajökull
 

Staff from the Icelandic Meteorological Office flew with the Icelandic Coast Guard to the Eyjafjallajökull eruption site on the afternoon of April 16th 2010.

Here is a link to the website of the Icelandic Met Office with some picture:
2010 < News < About IMO < Icelandic Meteorological office (in english

Probably dust that settled earlier being blown up again by the wind

Metoffice forecast
 

The met office forecasts are easily found, the most current one is http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/aviation...1271483349.png and that shows not a sign of anything materially changing for the UK out to 00:00Z on the 18th. They update every six hours or so.

If I were a betting man I'd say that based on that you aren't likely to be going anywhere - but of course the winds can change and then it'll presumably be a case of whether the equipment and personnel are all in the right place and ready to go.