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My kids in Iceland with a school party hve been urgently called to the airport - two Icelandair flights operating to GLA this afternoon, showing on both departures at Keflavic and arrivals at GLA... Fingers crossed!
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from BBC news site
More information about the three flights due to depart from Manchester Airport between 1200 and 1300 BST: The first is a Thomson flight to Barbados, followed by two Thomas Cook departures to Vancouver in Canada, and Cancun in Mexico. The planes are departing empty because there is no time to load passengers in the hour available, but they are due to bring back stranded holidaymakers.
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Eyjafjallajökull and its neighbour, Katla - further risks
:mad:
Only three previous eruptions of Eyjafjallajökull are known in the last 1100 years!! In fact Eyjafjallajökull did not erupt for the last 190 years. The most recent eruption began in December 1821 and lasted intermittently for more than a year. Eyjafjallajökull is considered by scientists a precursor of Katla's activity, Katla is the more dangerous one, larger and more powerful. The neighbouring volcano Katla in fact punctually erupted then on 26 June 1823, around 19 months later. These two volcanoes are historically linked and an eruption of Eyjafjallajökull normally triggers Katla.:eek: Scientists know the danger, but there is very little we can do about powerful volcanoes. An eruption of Katla in between now and 2012 is therefore likely:eek:. What Katla could do: "Iceland's Laki volcano erupted in 1783, freeing gases that turned into smog. The smog floated across the Jet Stream, changing weather patterns. Many died from gas poisoning in the British Isles. Crop production fell in western Europe. Famine spread. " Is it going to be Earth's revenge against humans? :ugh: Hopefully all the above is just fiction.:ok: :mad: |
From BBC Scotland
BBC Scotland says
Helicopter flies through ash in Shetland rescue A rescue helicopter was flown through clouds of volcano ash to help a woman on Shetland who was in a "life or death" situation. The woman was seriously ill in the Out Skerries, and it was feared ferry travel may take too long. The Shetland Coastguard helicopter crew decided to fly through not only ash, but low visibility caused by rain and mist on Friday morning. The casualty was taken to Gilbert Bain Hospital in Lerwick. Martin Sykes, watch manager at Shetland Coastguard, said: "After discussions with ambulance control we realised that this was a life or death situation with a casualty in a very serious condition. "The helicopter crew made the difficult decision to fly through the clouds of ash, mist, and rain in a bid to save the woman who is now receiving treatment in hospital." He added: "After every operational trip the helicopter is given a thorough clean thereby removing any debris that has built up." |
For nerdy (in a good way) discussion about what's going on at the volcano, I like this Threat of Icelandic ash closes airspace over Europe : Eruptions
thread - current "action" is in the comments section - at the eruptions blog (Eruptions) |
Is the cancellation of air travel 'an act of God' - or merely a decision of NATS?
The answer could have implications for the reimbursement of costs incurred by would-be travellers (and maybe the airlines, too . . . ). |
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FYI pictures issued by Fnnish air force showing ash on a F18 Hornet motor after flying in volcanic dust.
Hornetien moottorit tuhkassa - katso ilmavoimien kuvat | Uutiset | Iltalehti.fi |
Choppers cancelled in Norway until further notice...:bored:
Mind you, Norwegians don't need too much of an excuse to have a day off work - and it is not even summer yet!! :) |
Is there any realistic outlook/"scientific guess" yet when we will be able to return to normal ops? Who could afford this for days, a week or even longer?
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How long can this go on.
So the volcano may keep going for days, weeks, months or years.
The issue of course is the ash being blown over northern Europe. Are these the normal winds though, direction and speed, at the appropriate altitude? Will a change in wind direction alleviate the problem? Are we/Europe getting the ash just because of the large stationary high-pressure zone in the area? |
Belgian air space now officially closed until Saturday 10:00 lt
New evalution will be done at 06:00 lt Chris |
Reference the aspect of NATS closing the airspace, I wonder whether they have been leaned on by Gordon Brown (who you will recall made a freudian slip about "saving the world") and Co.
With an election looming how popular (if that's possible) would the current government be if the Dept of Transport issued an edict to close the airspace? They might lose a few more votes! |
http://inapcache.boston.com/universa...8_23024127.jpg
There is a long explanation of the eruption here. Anatomy of an Icelandic volcano Apparently Icelandic volcanoes tend to stop spewing ash quite quickly - but this does not seem likely with this eruption. Its going to keep disrupting air travel for quite some time. |
It might be worth noting that according to the 'Association of British Insurers' there is no such thing as an 'Act of God' and insurers have been warned not to use the term. There is, however, a term known 'exceptional circumstances' apparently.
I pass it on FWIW. |
Aparantly the dutch airspace remains closed till 0400 GMT. so wondering if it will be a very quiet weekend without planes in the sky.
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Testing the plume
Atmospheric research currently being carried out - does anyone have any info on the results of yesterday's tests yet?
BBC News - Gloucestershire research team flies to volcanic plume |
I suspect that the dust cloud will actually waft around Europe for a few weeks but the airspace will nevertheless open within days due to commercial and political pressure, with the dangers of the ash being gradually downplayed to levels commensurate with normal operational risk in volcanic regions. Possible?
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From the Beeb:-
UK Transport Secretary Lord Adonis predicts that "significant disruption to most UK air services will continue for at least the next 48 hours". |
Of course the problem the authorities have now is how to backtrack without losing face when it becomes clear that the air travel situation cannot continue and some degree of normality must be resumed.
I still believe they over reacted, of course we cant fly through volcanic ash, as professional pilots we all know this and dont need it explaining to us. However whereas the obvious restrictions should be put in place, following this blanket closure of everything how will the governments spin this one?? One watches with interest. Incidentally I dont know who it was who found dust on their car in London, but I live in Kent and the only dust around here is on my gym kit. |
There appears to have been more seismic activity around Eyjafjallajökull in the last hour. The following link compliments of the Iceland Meteorological Office who monitor earthquake activity there.
Earthquakes - Mýrdalsjökull Probably means it isn't going to go away soon. |
Cars in Bristol are looking exactly the same as TRC's picture and quite a few of my work colleagues are complaining of a metallic taste in their mouths all day.
I cannot believe that people think this is over-reacting, I am due out of BRS tomorrow and am perfectly happy not going. Much rather safe than very, very sorry. I am also confused by the mention of 'fly around it', as the cloud is covering most of Northern Europe. It's a bit difficult to fly around it if your destination is directly beneath the cloud! |
A way back (this thread is building so fast I can't now find them) a couple of posters asked whether NATS was taking over the "decision process" from those normally in command of aircraft (pilots) and making fly / no-fly decisions.
The answer may very well be "yes" to that, but then it's worth remembering who owns NATS! Answer - the airlines. I would propose that it's much easier / acceptable in PR terms for the airlines to have NATS make a no-fly decision than make it themselves. Rather than them (BA / Easy / Ryan etc) saying "it's not a good idea to fly due potential a/c damage / risk to humanity etc" surely it's easier to say "the authorities shut it down." There's no implication in this that it's not the right decision, but in PR terms it's far, far easier for the carriers. I know - I worked as a PR man for 45 years (not in this industry tho')! |
Looks like Scandinavia will get a break on sunday but more coming in on monday afternoon.
Central Europe looks like will get a break on monday afternoon. Forecast Animation AVI From Norwegian Institute of Air Research |
You can certainly see it in Olso - pic from a friend who flies out of Gardemoen. Photo taken from Aker Brygge...
http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/276...1205575976.jpg |
Alternatives? Air Ships of course! Can change intake filters in flight, sweep the envelope of any time {just means hanging over the side on a rope} I always knew jet aircraft were just a passing fad!
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NATS Update
Statement on Icelandic volcanic eruption: Friday April 16, 1445 The cloud of volcanic ash continues to move south through the UK and the eruption in Iceland continues. Following a review of the latest Met Office information, NATS advises that restrictions preventing flights in controlled airspace over England and Wales will remain in place until 0700 (UK time) tomorrow, Saturday 17 April, at the earliest. From 1900 (UK time) today ATC restrictions will be lifted in a large part of Scottish airspace including Scottish airports, Shetland, Orkneys and also Northern Ireland. On this basis, North Atlantic traffic can also operate to/from points in this airspace. Please note these arrangements do not mean that all flights will operate. Anyone hoping to travel today or tomorrow should contact their airline before going to the airport. We are looking for opportunities when the ash cloud moves sufficient for us to enable some flights to operate under individual coordination with ATC. Some aircraft were able to operate at Manchester this morning, although restrictions are now reapplied to Manchester. We hope there may be some opportunity from the north into Newcastle after 0100 (UK time) tomorrow - Saturday. We will review further Met Office information and at 2030 (UK time) we will advise further arrangements. In general, the situation is dynamic and subject to change. We continue to work closely with airports, airlines, and the rest of Europe to understand and mitigate the implications of the volcanic eruption. |
Two questions;
I remember after Sept. 11th some in the US noted that the sky was more blue than normal due (it was claimed) to less airline traffic and hence less high level water vapor. Of course the dust will mask any such observation in the effected zones, however for those areas NOT effected but perhaps with much less air travel than normal, has anyone noted this same result? Living in Seoul, we get yellow dust from China that seems much thicker and as high and extensive as it seems is being reported in the UK. It can be tasted, it leaves yellow dust on our cars, and it much reduces visibility to as low as one Km on occasion. It also seems that if RAF fighters is Iraq (reported earlier in thread) had issues, it should be an issue here also. I have however never heard/noted it being an aviation issue here. Is it? If not why not; under-reaction here or over-reaction in the UK/Europe? |
Of course the problem the authorities have now is how to backtrack without losing face when it becomes clear that the air travel situation cannot continue and some degree of normality must be resumed. I still believe they over reacted, of course we cant fly through volcanic ash, as professional pilots we all know this and dont need it explaining to us. This is the damage to the engine a short flight in a f-18 Hornet incurred. http://static.iltalehti.fi/uutiset/t...604_410_uu.jpg http://static.iltalehti.fi/uutiset/t...604_148_uu.jpg http://static.iltalehti.fi/uutiset/t...604_148_uu.jpg Hornetien moottorit tuhkassa - katso ilmavoimien kuvat | Uutiset | Iltalehti.fi Airlines are not going to put their aircraft up in that no matter what. |
ZRH - LSZH Zurich closed
Zürich closed 30 minutes ago until 0900uhr CET Saturday
Run this through Google translator BAZL - Aschenwolke: Schweizer Luftraum aus Sicherheitsgrnden vorbergehend geschlossen Whoa, this is so heavy... Ah, I just saw Emirates depart, how did he do that? And Aeroflot is ready as well... |
I was about to post that I thought VMC arrivals and departures not above 5,000 QNH might be a good idea with IFR plans being activated (or deactivated) outside the affected area.
Then I saw the pix of the crud that is beginning to settle on parked cars here and there across the UK and had second thoughts. I would also venture a guess that modern ATC systems are very reliant on computer control. I bet they're not programed to cope with major changes to routine like low-level VFR departures and arrivals? Which might explain the sudden and complete shut-down when people are reporting clear skies in their neck of the woods. |
Sky News reporter at Cranfield just been saying that a research plane (D228 D-CALM) will shortly be taking off to fly over east of England to try & measure the extent of the ash cloud.
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Can we put the 'over reaction', 'Backtracking', 'I can't see any dust' posts to bed please?
ATCOs, and ANSPs are not allowed to give IFR clearances into areas where Volcanic Ash activity is forecast. End of. They come about this information from the met office and vulcanologists. It is updated every 6 hours and everyone is briefed - any less time is unreasonable to expect decent data, or for airlines and passengers to be given notice that their flight will be OK. There may well be some scope for flights to fly VFR below then climb IFR when clear of the forecast areas... However that implies a willingness by the airlines to fly under any area affected with Ash Cloud (remember gravity anyone) and also the willingness of airlines to burn lots of extra fuel in doing so. Just why would airlines, who are struggling already, want to operate a flight originating from under a risk area using methods that are going to decimate most if not all profit on marginal profit routes? These airlines are the same ones that took such measures as reducing in-flight magazine sizes etc in a bid to reduce weight and therefore fuel burn. As someone said much earlier, the usually vocal CEOs of certain LoCo airlines are not uttering any complaints about what is happening... that is telling in itself. This action may well be overkill - but unless you can say for certain, would you take the risk if you did not have to? |
IRELAND
Does we think in here as a collective that airlines in the States may try and get as far as at least SNN/DUB/BFS/GLA especially BA etc to get the fleet home so to speak??, as these airports or at least the airspace appear now to be open ??
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Its not going to be up to pilots whether they fly through this - its an engineering decision and you obviously don't know or care about the the issue. This is the damage to the engine a short flight in a f-18 Hornet incurred. |
Just to correct 2 bits of mis-information:
1) NATS have not 'closed' the whole of UK airspace; the CAA have directed NATS that IFR clearances are not to be issued thus effectively denying the use of class A airspace.(this includes class A CTRs where SVFR clearances are also not permitted) 2) In other airspace classifications, you can (and indeed many aircraft are) still fly VFR but the CAA have directed units providing ATSOCAs in class G airspace that services relying on radar are not to be provided. |
D-CALM research flight into the Ash cloud...
Yes I see what you mean mixture!
*Departed Cranfield at 16.00 local & expected to be airborne for 3 to 4 hours. Data will then be passed on to the Met Office in Exeter for analysis. Here's some more information about D-CALM on this link: NERC Airborne Research and Survey Facility - Aircraft |
@TeachMe
As far as I know the reason for that is that average sand only melts at temperature's above 1300/1400 degrees celcius , and vulcanis ashes usually around 500/600 celcius Average TIT is around 850 celcius , so big engine trouble Sand usually gives a lot of 'mechanical'damage to windscreens , a/c packs etc. , but the real killer is vulcanic ash , even in less dense properties. |
GE issued a statement about volcanic ash and engines
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On FAF (Finnish Air Force) F-18 flew into the ashes on thursday, engines where damaged, see pic and read article in Swedish at
SKADOR P PLANEN | Jaktplan fick aska i motorerna |
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