easyjet pilots to strike??
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Although nothing to do with Easy, I, like many others have been reading this thread with interest since it started. Due to my current situation I have been obliged to return to teaching in the short term to earn some pennies. With plenty of such experience behind me before I became a full time pilot I would point out to non BALPA members reading this that teachers have historically had terms and conditions as well as pay that are c**p. This is due to the fact that there are more than three teaching unions who spend as much time squabbling amongst themselves ( to gain members) as addressing the important matters - about which they rarely agree. Our teachers would be probably be much better off and still be members of a respected profession if they had had only one union which represented the interests of them all.
Divide and rule.
Although I never have been a member of BALPA ( peferring the other lot) I would certainly most seriously think of applying for membership if I was an EJ pilot under your current circumstances.
Best of luck with your negociations.
P.P.
Divide and rule.
Although I never have been a member of BALPA ( peferring the other lot) I would certainly most seriously think of applying for membership if I was an EJ pilot under your current circumstances.
Best of luck with your negociations.
P.P.
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Maybe Easy BALPA members should get together and organize a quick recruiting campaign at all the bases. After all, most non-members will be so because of sloth and apathy rather than because of any deep seated ideology. If the required forms are shoved under their noses with an answer required to the question “do you want to have a say in your own future here at easyJet?”, then most will sign on the dotted. If these forms are accompanied by a ballot paper, helpfully pre-marked with an X against NO, then you all might be on your way.
For all non-BALPA pilots, here are those easy steps in full:
1. Sign application form
2. Make out cheque for 15 quid or so (50p a day) for FO’s – bit more for Captains
3. Sign DD form for same amount monthly
4. Ensure helpfully provided ballot paper has X on NO
5. Err, that’s it…..
Hopefully, New Road would be able to quickly provide and process the paperwork without too many quibbles and also include the new ballot papers in the count without the traditional “shooting in the foot” ceremony of excluding them as they “arrived too late” or some other such nonsense.
There’s no “re-inventing of the wheel” here – it’s all been done before – just needs a modicum of effort and coordination.
Finally, if BALPA (ie yourselves) does not subsequently produce the goods, you all don’t have to be rocket scientists to figure out what to do with the DD mandates!
For all non-BALPA pilots, here are those easy steps in full:
1. Sign application form
2. Make out cheque for 15 quid or so (50p a day) for FO’s – bit more for Captains
3. Sign DD form for same amount monthly
4. Ensure helpfully provided ballot paper has X on NO
5. Err, that’s it…..
Hopefully, New Road would be able to quickly provide and process the paperwork without too many quibbles and also include the new ballot papers in the count without the traditional “shooting in the foot” ceremony of excluding them as they “arrived too late” or some other such nonsense.
There’s no “re-inventing of the wheel” here – it’s all been done before – just needs a modicum of effort and coordination.
Finally, if BALPA (ie yourselves) does not subsequently produce the goods, you all don’t have to be rocket scientists to figure out what to do with the DD mandates!
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I see things havn't changed with the BALPA jackboot boys then, sign here, give us your money and vote as we say. At least 50% of pilots will always regard this bunch of latter day luddites with contempt.
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It is all very well saying reject the offer and send the BALPA/CC back in to renegotiate. Surely by rejecting a proposal which the CC/BALPA has recommended we accept, equates to a vote of no confidence in the BALPA/CC ? .
That must surely put us back to square one, infact probably worse off as I imagine most of the CC would step down.
BALPA will never get more than about 50% membership until they provide a lot more value for money and start representing all the pilots not just the concerns of those on the CC.
That must surely put us back to square one, infact probably worse off as I imagine most of the CC would step down.
BALPA will never get more than about 50% membership until they provide a lot more value for money and start representing all the pilots not just the concerns of those on the CC.
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ajk
I’m afraid that as an easyJet pilot (?) in possession of an apparently deep seated ideology, you miss the point entirely. The style of my previous post was couched to emphasize the ease with which BALPA membership could be quickly attained by non-members, so as to add weight in a fighting campaign to improve the lot of all easyJet pilots. It is difficult to imagine in what circumstances BALPA members would be able to coerce non-members to their point of view – perhaps you are confusing such effort with reasoned argument?
In respect of latter day Luddites, I would put it to you that the easyJet BALPA membership, far from figuratively “breaking looms” and so by your implication holding up progress, is, amongst other worthy projects, attempting to pull you all from a grossly inefficient and antediluvian roster system, to one that reflects modern day working practices and satisfies the legitimate aspirations of the airline’s pilot body. Is this not something that you would find appealingly progressive?
LordLucan
I’m absolutely certain that the BALPA/CC pilots are just the kind of congenial and professional colleagues who we all enjoy working with and whose genuine friendship we consistently value. You are, however, in a battle with a very tricky and ruthless adversary, who would unhesitatingly and, may I say, professionally change his negotiating team, if it was not producing the goods. You may all have to consider adopting a similarly hard nosed professionalism in your dealings and, however reluctantly, collectively turn your backs, for the time being, on any considerations of friendship. I’m certain that your BALPA/CC colleagues would not take personally any instruction by the membership to return to the fray and seek a deal more in line with expectations entertained by the wider membership. If, however, individuals felt that such instruction impugned their sense of confidence in which they are held, then it would be for the individual to act accordingly. I do not, however, see that stepping down should be an automatic response to the very worthy aspiration of the membership to a better deal.
Perhaps you should all return to square one. But remember, you are seeking a deal back-dated to the expiry of your last agreement. Also remember that your NO to the present offer, contemptuously slung together on the back of a fag packet and dropped as crumbs to dogs round a table, would place your “management” in something of a quandary, as highlighted by SpannerInTheWerks on 12 February.
Remember also that, as dontdoit astutely pointed out on 9 February, BALPA is the members. It is not some machine or group of strangers, imposing its will on you all. Any result it achieves – good or bad – is merely a reflection of the current collective feeling – in this case the feeling of the easyJet pilots. If most of you are happy with what’s on offer or can’t be bothered to get off your backsides to do something about it if you’re not happy, then what can BALPA do? The result it “obtains” in such circumstances will obviously be dismal.
Moving on, you say that:
“BALPA will never get more than about 50% membership until they provide a lot more value for money and start representing all the pilots not just the concerns of those on the CC.”
If I might draw your attention to highcirrus on 17 February:
“May I therefore suggest that now is not the time for arguments about value for money of BALPA subscriptions or the attractions of the TGWU or IAPA. Now is the time to climb aboard and project some force. After you all win against your management you can indulge in such peacetime luxuries.”
Perhaps he/she should also have mentioned that now is also not the time to cavil about BALPA’s past perceived/real shortcomings. Get this battle won – and you won’t do it unless you adopt the combining facility offered by the BALPA structure - before fighting a quite separate one, if you so wish, over the organisation and administration of the Association.
Finally, I would ask you not to resign your BALPA membership at the moment. Your obvious concern and energy, manifested in your consistent will to post on this thread, is much needed by your fellow pilots – as similar energy and concern is needed from easyJet non-BALPA pilots. Please climb onboard now – all are welcome, including those with a deep seated ideology!
I’m afraid that as an easyJet pilot (?) in possession of an apparently deep seated ideology, you miss the point entirely. The style of my previous post was couched to emphasize the ease with which BALPA membership could be quickly attained by non-members, so as to add weight in a fighting campaign to improve the lot of all easyJet pilots. It is difficult to imagine in what circumstances BALPA members would be able to coerce non-members to their point of view – perhaps you are confusing such effort with reasoned argument?
In respect of latter day Luddites, I would put it to you that the easyJet BALPA membership, far from figuratively “breaking looms” and so by your implication holding up progress, is, amongst other worthy projects, attempting to pull you all from a grossly inefficient and antediluvian roster system, to one that reflects modern day working practices and satisfies the legitimate aspirations of the airline’s pilot body. Is this not something that you would find appealingly progressive?
LordLucan
I’m absolutely certain that the BALPA/CC pilots are just the kind of congenial and professional colleagues who we all enjoy working with and whose genuine friendship we consistently value. You are, however, in a battle with a very tricky and ruthless adversary, who would unhesitatingly and, may I say, professionally change his negotiating team, if it was not producing the goods. You may all have to consider adopting a similarly hard nosed professionalism in your dealings and, however reluctantly, collectively turn your backs, for the time being, on any considerations of friendship. I’m certain that your BALPA/CC colleagues would not take personally any instruction by the membership to return to the fray and seek a deal more in line with expectations entertained by the wider membership. If, however, individuals felt that such instruction impugned their sense of confidence in which they are held, then it would be for the individual to act accordingly. I do not, however, see that stepping down should be an automatic response to the very worthy aspiration of the membership to a better deal.
Perhaps you should all return to square one. But remember, you are seeking a deal back-dated to the expiry of your last agreement. Also remember that your NO to the present offer, contemptuously slung together on the back of a fag packet and dropped as crumbs to dogs round a table, would place your “management” in something of a quandary, as highlighted by SpannerInTheWerks on 12 February.
Remember also that, as dontdoit astutely pointed out on 9 February, BALPA is the members. It is not some machine or group of strangers, imposing its will on you all. Any result it achieves – good or bad – is merely a reflection of the current collective feeling – in this case the feeling of the easyJet pilots. If most of you are happy with what’s on offer or can’t be bothered to get off your backsides to do something about it if you’re not happy, then what can BALPA do? The result it “obtains” in such circumstances will obviously be dismal.
Moving on, you say that:
“BALPA will never get more than about 50% membership until they provide a lot more value for money and start representing all the pilots not just the concerns of those on the CC.”
If I might draw your attention to highcirrus on 17 February:
“May I therefore suggest that now is not the time for arguments about value for money of BALPA subscriptions or the attractions of the TGWU or IAPA. Now is the time to climb aboard and project some force. After you all win against your management you can indulge in such peacetime luxuries.”
Perhaps he/she should also have mentioned that now is also not the time to cavil about BALPA’s past perceived/real shortcomings. Get this battle won – and you won’t do it unless you adopt the combining facility offered by the BALPA structure - before fighting a quite separate one, if you so wish, over the organisation and administration of the Association.
Finally, I would ask you not to resign your BALPA membership at the moment. Your obvious concern and energy, manifested in your consistent will to post on this thread, is much needed by your fellow pilots – as similar energy and concern is needed from easyJet non-BALPA pilots. Please climb onboard now – all are welcome, including those with a deep seated ideology!
Poll results?
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P.Pilcher.
Your reasoning is full of holes. My wife is a teacher and she and I both know that teachers are, in fact, fairly well paid for what they do. The problem is the paperwork overload and the constantly changing demands being thrust on them by whoever happens to be in power at the time. The fact that there are three teaching unions has nothing whatsoever to do with teachers levels of pay. This is because the money available for teachers pay is determined by the exchequer who can only pay what he can spare out of the national tax take.
Pilots, on the other hand, can nowadays only demand what they feel is due to them in preference to all the other demands of the commercial business in which they are operating. But, again, I don't actually feel that unions help them a lot either. The real golden age for British pilots was when BA was owned by the UK Government, and was effectively a monopoly. The largese and extravagance of BA around that time was legendary and the pilots pay deals were fantastic.
I personally am self employed. So having absolutely no-one else to whine to I have to earn it for myself. And before you start on about me being a 'fat cat', I can tell you that I earn rather less than the average teacher.
Your reasoning is full of holes. My wife is a teacher and she and I both know that teachers are, in fact, fairly well paid for what they do. The problem is the paperwork overload and the constantly changing demands being thrust on them by whoever happens to be in power at the time. The fact that there are three teaching unions has nothing whatsoever to do with teachers levels of pay. This is because the money available for teachers pay is determined by the exchequer who can only pay what he can spare out of the national tax take.
Pilots, on the other hand, can nowadays only demand what they feel is due to them in preference to all the other demands of the commercial business in which they are operating. But, again, I don't actually feel that unions help them a lot either. The real golden age for British pilots was when BA was owned by the UK Government, and was effectively a monopoly. The largese and extravagance of BA around that time was legendary and the pilots pay deals were fantastic.
I personally am self employed. So having absolutely no-one else to whine to I have to earn it for myself. And before you start on about me being a 'fat cat', I can tell you that I earn rather less than the average teacher.
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The official release.
The result of the second consultative ballot that closed today was as follows:
YES 59%
NO 41%
The difficulty and challenges of bringing the two companies together have been self evident and the commitment and hard work demonstrated by all parties in this process is recognised.
Despite the overall acceptance there is clearly some work to be done and we remain committed to working with the pilots in carrying this out.
This is a significant step on the road to becoming fully harmonised and meeting and overcoming the challenges of further continued expansion.
Capt. J P
The result of the second consultative ballot that closed today was as follows:
YES 59%
NO 41%
The difficulty and challenges of bringing the two companies together have been self evident and the commitment and hard work demonstrated by all parties in this process is recognised.
Despite the overall acceptance there is clearly some work to be done and we remain committed to working with the pilots in carrying this out.
This is a significant step on the road to becoming fully harmonised and meeting and overcoming the challenges of further continued expansion.
Capt. J P
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Strike, load of wishfull thinking eh Anotherpost. Same hopes / threats have been made many times i.e BMI amongst others, indicates how representative the majority of views are on these pages.
As to how much pilots are worth, only what employers have to pay them. There is no table of merit or any way of justifying more or less than other trades or professions, market forces will rule. Only if employed by the state or other monopoly employer can comparisons be made with other employees in terms of value or worth. Pilots have no claim to preferential status, they are simply employees who's rewards will be determined by supply and demand.
As to how much pilots are worth, only what employers have to pay them. There is no table of merit or any way of justifying more or less than other trades or professions, market forces will rule. Only if employed by the state or other monopoly employer can comparisons be made with other employees in terms of value or worth. Pilots have no claim to preferential status, they are simply employees who's rewards will be determined by supply and demand.
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The apathetic and spineless will unfortunately get their just reward. Sadly, as a consequence of their inaction, they will take the courageous with them. Those who did not join BALPA when given the chance now have no right to complain. You had your chance guys, and you've blown it. Blown it for everyone.
I've only made a few posts so I don't feel the need to order a Personal Title and help support PPRuNe
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Goes to show that if such a large number of the Del Monte drivers can't be bothered to join a union, then they only have themselves to blame for their apathy. I wonder how many are now regretting their pathetic stance.
Classic management tactic of divide and rule. easyJet pilots, bend over, the shafting won't hurt too much.
Classic management tactic of divide and rule. easyJet pilots, bend over, the shafting won't hurt too much.
ex-Tanker
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Ron - my conclusion is that the non members were either not interested enough to join and vote or were happy for the members to vote on their behalf. Eitherway - no card, no vote, innit?
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Quite obviously the views expressed here are those of a vocal and militant minority and are not shared by the majority. Fix the statistics how you will Ron the fact is that more people voted yes. If the union really wanted to represent all the pilots they could start by allowing them all to express an opinion.
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"If the union really wanted to represent all the pilots they could start by allowing them all to express an opinion."
ajk, what a bizarre statement!!!
I, along with the other 59, 856 members of PPRuNe will be wondering how on earth BALPA is alledged to prevent those it represents from expressing an opinion.
Didn't they just hold a ballot? What is that if not allowing people to express an opinion? Am I missing something???
Do please tell...
ajk, what a bizarre statement!!!
I, along with the other 59, 856 members of PPRuNe will be wondering how on earth BALPA is alledged to prevent those it represents from expressing an opinion.
Didn't they just hold a ballot? What is that if not allowing people to express an opinion? Am I missing something???
Do please tell...
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Having treated the front line operators with contempt, I wonder how easyjet management and shareholders expect to run a successful airline with no moral or goodwill from the very people who decide whether or when an aircraft will dispatch. Membership or not of Balpa, makes no odds, take away moral and costs go up. Management it would seem are smugly happy with that status quo.