easyjet pilots to strike??
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dontdoit
Thank you for your kind comments and yes, you are entirely correct. Perhaps what I really mean is:
Finally, a note to Easy Pilots. Will you kindly stop being so bloody pathetic and do a proper job of standing together against a ruthless adversary. The membership is not getting value from its overwhelming capacity to prevail!
Thank you for your kind comments and yes, you are entirely correct. Perhaps what I really mean is:
Finally, a note to Easy Pilots. Will you kindly stop being so bloody pathetic and do a proper job of standing together against a ruthless adversary. The membership is not getting value from its overwhelming capacity to prevail!
ex-Tanker
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The hardest I ever worked for easy - indeed worked for anybody, was when I was "on loan" to the Swiss section but still based in LTN. I worked several 90 hr months culminating in a 98.30 month in August 2000 (legal under the pertaining JAR/Swiss rules).
The interesting thing, was that the rostering was done by a small office in GVA. The people there listened to their crews and tried to accommodate their wishes. In that August I only worked 16 days - the rest was off - in blocks. It suited me just fine - others less. The point is that it is possible
a) to get a lot of work from a pilot but to give him free days too and
b) to plan people according to their wishes.
Regarding b) I realise that it is a lot easier to deal with a smaller contingent in this way but a rough series of monthly bid models should be possible even for the large firm easy now is. For instance - as many weekends off as possible - no weekends off - every thursday evening free - intense blocks on then several days off - short flight periods but more days on / less off - one week free during month etc. , according personal circumstances.
That is was the late lamented Willum would have called win-win. As they say - the time is now...
The interesting thing, was that the rostering was done by a small office in GVA. The people there listened to their crews and tried to accommodate their wishes. In that August I only worked 16 days - the rest was off - in blocks. It suited me just fine - others less. The point is that it is possible
a) to get a lot of work from a pilot but to give him free days too and
b) to plan people according to their wishes.
Regarding b) I realise that it is a lot easier to deal with a smaller contingent in this way but a rough series of monthly bid models should be possible even for the large firm easy now is. For instance - as many weekends off as possible - no weekends off - every thursday evening free - intense blocks on then several days off - short flight periods but more days on / less off - one week free during month etc. , according personal circumstances.
That is was the late lamented Willum would have called win-win. As they say - the time is now...
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The vote is NO from me too.
People have said that a 'no' vote is a vote which undermines the Pilots' Council. I don't think so. The Pilots' Council, together with the officials of BALPA, have been unable to make any great headway against easyJet management - I don't personally think anyone could. Management were never going to accept our proposals and knew if they said NO, and were obstructive enough times, they would eventually prevail.
It is said that being a BALPA rep is a thankness task. Not the case - they have my thanks for all their efforts (and no doubt the thanks of the majority of other easyJet pilots too). I understand how difficult and frustrating it must be.
The 'pay deal' and rostering proposals put forward do not constitute an effective package. There is a lack of definition, particularly in the rostering 'protocol'. Too many lose ends to know quite what we are voting for. I defy anyone to explain in absolute terms the effect, in practice, of the clauses relating to this element of the 'pay deal' and whether the lifestyle at easyJet will improve. I don't know what the effects of the new rostering agreement will be. If I don't others won't.
The media has made the public very aware of sharp practice by companies and individuals who try to 'sell' products which are either flawed or not up to specification. Don't sign on the dotted line unless you are ABSOLUTELY sure you know what you getting for your money is the cry.
Yet here we are being advised to do exactly that!!! No one knows EXACTLY what holidays and days off we are entitled too; what the effect of the roster agreement will be; not even what the overall benefit is in pounds and pence to individual members of flight crew it is all so mixed up in pluses and minuses and length of service. Ask ten pilots what the benefit to them is and I can guarantee you will get ten different answers for ten different reasons.
I appreciate the efforts of the Pilots' Council, but this is the first phase towards agreement of decent terms and conditions of employment and - more importantly - a better lifestyle for ourselves and our families. Someone said elsewhere that the rostering proposals can mean all or nothing. In this form they mean nothing to us.
The first phase of negotiation is over and my vote is NO NO NEVER to terms and conditions in this form.
A 'yes' vote to this proposal is effectively a vote of confidence in management - who will then have a mandate to impose whatever rostering style they can get away with - and will make damn sure that at every verse end they refer back the time the pilots voted 'yes' to a ballot in February 2003. "Sorry guys" they will say, "we used our best endeavours but even so could not improve things as we would have liked (sound of Mutley laughing). Sometimes, even the best of efforts doesn't produce the results we would want - but then you knew that was a possibility when you voted in the ballot. No! - but it was there in black and white - we never said things would improve, just that as management we would try their best. If you didn't like the wording you should have said so at the time - too late now!"
It's our future. Mine is a NO vote, my family's vote is a NO vote.
Vote NO now to guarantee a YES vote when a fair, workable, package has finally been negotiated. This is not the end but the beginning.
...... steps off his orange box and walks away, head hung in disallusionment and disappointment that the dream could be over ....
People have said that a 'no' vote is a vote which undermines the Pilots' Council. I don't think so. The Pilots' Council, together with the officials of BALPA, have been unable to make any great headway against easyJet management - I don't personally think anyone could. Management were never going to accept our proposals and knew if they said NO, and were obstructive enough times, they would eventually prevail.
It is said that being a BALPA rep is a thankness task. Not the case - they have my thanks for all their efforts (and no doubt the thanks of the majority of other easyJet pilots too). I understand how difficult and frustrating it must be.
The 'pay deal' and rostering proposals put forward do not constitute an effective package. There is a lack of definition, particularly in the rostering 'protocol'. Too many lose ends to know quite what we are voting for. I defy anyone to explain in absolute terms the effect, in practice, of the clauses relating to this element of the 'pay deal' and whether the lifestyle at easyJet will improve. I don't know what the effects of the new rostering agreement will be. If I don't others won't.
The media has made the public very aware of sharp practice by companies and individuals who try to 'sell' products which are either flawed or not up to specification. Don't sign on the dotted line unless you are ABSOLUTELY sure you know what you getting for your money is the cry.
Yet here we are being advised to do exactly that!!! No one knows EXACTLY what holidays and days off we are entitled too; what the effect of the roster agreement will be; not even what the overall benefit is in pounds and pence to individual members of flight crew it is all so mixed up in pluses and minuses and length of service. Ask ten pilots what the benefit to them is and I can guarantee you will get ten different answers for ten different reasons.
I appreciate the efforts of the Pilots' Council, but this is the first phase towards agreement of decent terms and conditions of employment and - more importantly - a better lifestyle for ourselves and our families. Someone said elsewhere that the rostering proposals can mean all or nothing. In this form they mean nothing to us.
The first phase of negotiation is over and my vote is NO NO NEVER to terms and conditions in this form.
A 'yes' vote to this proposal is effectively a vote of confidence in management - who will then have a mandate to impose whatever rostering style they can get away with - and will make damn sure that at every verse end they refer back the time the pilots voted 'yes' to a ballot in February 2003. "Sorry guys" they will say, "we used our best endeavours but even so could not improve things as we would have liked (sound of Mutley laughing). Sometimes, even the best of efforts doesn't produce the results we would want - but then you knew that was a possibility when you voted in the ballot. No! - but it was there in black and white - we never said things would improve, just that as management we would try their best. If you didn't like the wording you should have said so at the time - too late now!"
It's our future. Mine is a NO vote, my family's vote is a NO vote.
Vote NO now to guarantee a YES vote when a fair, workable, package has finally been negotiated. This is not the end but the beginning.
...... steps off his orange box and walks away, head hung in disallusionment and disappointment that the dream could be over ....
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SpannerInTheWerks
“steps off his orange box and walks away, head hung in disallusionment and disappointment that the dream could be over .... ”
I don’t think you need to – everything you wrote made great sense and I’d say you can step away with your head held high. Also liked the following:
“Vote NO now to guarantee a YES vote when a fair, workable, package has finally been negotiated. This is not the end but the beginning.”
If every BALPA member thinks and votes in the same manner and also spends time urgently persuading non-members to join, you could very well all end up with the beginnings of a success on your hands.
Good luck to you all and hang right in there.
“steps off his orange box and walks away, head hung in disallusionment and disappointment that the dream could be over .... ”
I don’t think you need to – everything you wrote made great sense and I’d say you can step away with your head held high. Also liked the following:
“Vote NO now to guarantee a YES vote when a fair, workable, package has finally been negotiated. This is not the end but the beginning.”
If every BALPA member thinks and votes in the same manner and also spends time urgently persuading non-members to join, you could very well all end up with the beginnings of a success on your hands.
Good luck to you all and hang right in there.
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From what has been written I deduce that this has been going on since last March/April, 2002. Therefore I presume this to be the time for annual negotiations.
So, whatever the vote now for 2002 , the start of 2003 discussions is just around the corner. If you guys vote YES to what you seem to think is a below par deal, you can expect zero on the table come April, as the managment have discovered the shallow depth of resolve.
If you vote NO, then whatever is further discussed efectively becomes a 2 year deal. In other words much will have to be re-assessed.
But, in either case, it will be the foundation for years to come. Many of the board will have left and most of you will still be there dealing with the consequences.
Think on!
So, whatever the vote now for 2002 , the start of 2003 discussions is just around the corner. If you guys vote YES to what you seem to think is a below par deal, you can expect zero on the table come April, as the managment have discovered the shallow depth of resolve.
If you vote NO, then whatever is further discussed efectively becomes a 2 year deal. In other words much will have to be re-assessed.
But, in either case, it will be the foundation for years to come. Many of the board will have left and most of you will still be there dealing with the consequences.
Think on!
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Rat
In fact the deal we are being recommended takes us through to 2004!
I'm not at all sure who gave Balpa the green light to sort out next years deal at the same time but it sure as hell wasn't me. The first I knew of this was after the deal had been agreed!
Never mind I'm looking forward to my small extra payrise!!!
In fact the deal we are being recommended takes us through to 2004!
I'm not at all sure who gave Balpa the green light to sort out next years deal at the same time but it sure as hell wasn't me. The first I knew of this was after the deal had been agreed!
Never mind I'm looking forward to my small extra payrise!!!
The trouble with pilots, no the trouble with crews, let's not forget our hardworking colleagues in the back, who get far less reward than ourselves - the trouble with crews is that we have a conscience, we actually want to get our passengers, who have paid their hard earned money, to provide US with our hard earned salary, to where they want to go to - on time.
To do this, we work totally anti-social hours, because people need to leave early in the morning to have a full day where they want to be.
To do this, we put up with strains and stresses that in other industies would call for psycho councelling.
To do this, we put up with rushed food, even at EZY - still; poor HOTAC, travelling at all hours, for all hours,in taxies, whose drivers seem to have the death wish.
To do this, we launch ourselves into the air and at the ground, in weather conditions that any normal person would think twice about risking themselves on the roads or trains.
To do this, we work up to 14 hours a day, and our Italian friends ( and I'm sure, many around the world) many more, through the middle of the night, changing our Circadian rhythm at the apparent whim of a crewing department, whose only reason for giving us our changes seems to be to cause maximum disruption to what remains of our social lives.
To do this, we risk totally alienating our better halves, who really did want to go Tesco shopping the following morning, when we were supposed to be on standby, and have now been called out to do a 3 day trip.
The result of this is that crew members seem to have the highest divorce rate amongst all the professions, and seem to live the least to enjoy our hard earned pension.
Why do we do this? BECAUSE WE LOVE IT!!!!!!!
To do this, we work totally anti-social hours, because people need to leave early in the morning to have a full day where they want to be.
To do this, we put up with strains and stresses that in other industies would call for psycho councelling.
To do this, we put up with rushed food, even at EZY - still; poor HOTAC, travelling at all hours, for all hours,in taxies, whose drivers seem to have the death wish.
To do this, we launch ourselves into the air and at the ground, in weather conditions that any normal person would think twice about risking themselves on the roads or trains.
To do this, we work up to 14 hours a day, and our Italian friends ( and I'm sure, many around the world) many more, through the middle of the night, changing our Circadian rhythm at the apparent whim of a crewing department, whose only reason for giving us our changes seems to be to cause maximum disruption to what remains of our social lives.
To do this, we risk totally alienating our better halves, who really did want to go Tesco shopping the following morning, when we were supposed to be on standby, and have now been called out to do a 3 day trip.
The result of this is that crew members seem to have the highest divorce rate amongst all the professions, and seem to live the least to enjoy our hard earned pension.
Why do we do this? BECAUSE WE LOVE IT!!!!!!!
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Can anyone explain why so much time was spent during the pay talks on :
1. Over 60's working conditions.
2. Part time working conditions.
I fully appreciate that they had to be sorted out along with all the other contracts but did we really need to be stalling the negotiations and going off on tangents that had no bearing on the terms and conditions of the vast majority of the pilot workforce.
These guys make up a very small percentage of the workforce and I personally feel a lot of time was waisted, hence the half cocked agreement that we are being asked to accept.
A cynic might say those negotiating (BALPA) fall into this category ??!!!
1. Over 60's working conditions.
2. Part time working conditions.
I fully appreciate that they had to be sorted out along with all the other contracts but did we really need to be stalling the negotiations and going off on tangents that had no bearing on the terms and conditions of the vast majority of the pilot workforce.
These guys make up a very small percentage of the workforce and I personally feel a lot of time was waisted, hence the half cocked agreement that we are being asked to accept.
A cynic might say those negotiating (BALPA) fall into this category ??!!!
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LordLucan,
The Go side of BALPA is run by over 60s- so they probably did have their own ideas. But dont be quick to knock that. With very few people willing to stand up and be BALPA reps- these guy's are probably the best people to have. I.E. They dont have their careers to worry about!
Its not a bad deal- but there's still lots of work to be done.
The Go side of BALPA is run by over 60s- so they probably did have their own ideas. But dont be quick to knock that. With very few people willing to stand up and be BALPA reps- these guy's are probably the best people to have. I.E. They dont have their careers to worry about!
Its not a bad deal- but there's still lots of work to be done.
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kriskross
Re your post of 10 Feb:
Well yes it is nice to see such boyish/girlish enthusiasm for the job and I’m sure that we all, on occasions, feel as you do. However, these feelings must not in any way impede a realistic and imperative view of what you are all dealing with here, which is, “who has the power and how should it be wielded?”
You may all recall that your “management” had previously recognised that your company’s industrial relations were in a particularly parlous state and that disaster would result from continued neglect in this area.
Subsequently, as I understand it, ongoing representation has been made to “management”, proposing “win-win” work patterns as illustrated by Few Cloudy above, which would make the company more efficient, more profitable and far more productive, with the significant assistance of “on-side”, happy aircrew.
Logic, needless to say, has followed the classic path and been summarily confounded by the obdurate refusal of your “management” to listen to anything said by you all, as exemplified by the “deal” recently offered, and which listening would have gone a long way towards easing relations and securing a very bright future for your company.
Why is this? Well my dear kriskross, it’s because the world is full of egomaniacs whose raison d’etre is to exercise total, top-down control over all their subordinates and who insist that it’s their train set and therefore everyone will follow their laid down modes of operation – which are the best there are anyway because they were made up by the individual concerned!
And when the individual has made enough money and leaves, or the Teflon wears off and he’s fired, with the inevitable pay off, the employees are left to work in a vale of tears while he rides into the sunset.
Message? It’s your company not his – he’s the arriviste not you. You’re educated, intelligent, forceful professionals. Don’t let him destroy the train set - your working environment and livelihood. You’ve all put far more into it than him. Why should you all be talking about resigning and moving to Ryanair? Should it not be your CEO who should be considering moving on?
The answer kriskross is that, yes it is – and you can all make it happen – if you drop your amateurish approach towards both your profession and the deadly serious politics involved here.
You all absolutely MUST stop bickering amongst yourselves (remember the principle of divide and rule?), unanimously vote NO to the opening “offer” and try to maximise your BALPA membership by a process of individual reason and persuasion (remember non-BALPA members of Easy, it’s your future you throw away if you don’t combine and it’s a shameful free ride you take if your BALPA colleagues win and immeasurably improve conditions for you while you sit back mute on the sidelines).
If you do the above you will be in a great position to credibly threaten an opening 12/24 hour stoppage and also pay (through BALPA) for some quality PR, to explain to the UK media that you are trying, through such action, against great odds, to secure the future of your company by improving its efficiency and profitability.
The employers of your CEO – the major city shareholders – will instantly take notice and place him firmly under the spotlight. If he remains obdurate and a short-notice 12/24 hour stoppage results, then the inevitable subsequent city nervousness will ensure that he comes under major pressure to accommodate your very reasonable aspirations.
An exercise in power? You bet!
Re your post of 10 Feb:
Well yes it is nice to see such boyish/girlish enthusiasm for the job and I’m sure that we all, on occasions, feel as you do. However, these feelings must not in any way impede a realistic and imperative view of what you are all dealing with here, which is, “who has the power and how should it be wielded?”
You may all recall that your “management” had previously recognised that your company’s industrial relations were in a particularly parlous state and that disaster would result from continued neglect in this area.
Subsequently, as I understand it, ongoing representation has been made to “management”, proposing “win-win” work patterns as illustrated by Few Cloudy above, which would make the company more efficient, more profitable and far more productive, with the significant assistance of “on-side”, happy aircrew.
Logic, needless to say, has followed the classic path and been summarily confounded by the obdurate refusal of your “management” to listen to anything said by you all, as exemplified by the “deal” recently offered, and which listening would have gone a long way towards easing relations and securing a very bright future for your company.
Why is this? Well my dear kriskross, it’s because the world is full of egomaniacs whose raison d’etre is to exercise total, top-down control over all their subordinates and who insist that it’s their train set and therefore everyone will follow their laid down modes of operation – which are the best there are anyway because they were made up by the individual concerned!
And when the individual has made enough money and leaves, or the Teflon wears off and he’s fired, with the inevitable pay off, the employees are left to work in a vale of tears while he rides into the sunset.
Message? It’s your company not his – he’s the arriviste not you. You’re educated, intelligent, forceful professionals. Don’t let him destroy the train set - your working environment and livelihood. You’ve all put far more into it than him. Why should you all be talking about resigning and moving to Ryanair? Should it not be your CEO who should be considering moving on?
The answer kriskross is that, yes it is – and you can all make it happen – if you drop your amateurish approach towards both your profession and the deadly serious politics involved here.
You all absolutely MUST stop bickering amongst yourselves (remember the principle of divide and rule?), unanimously vote NO to the opening “offer” and try to maximise your BALPA membership by a process of individual reason and persuasion (remember non-BALPA members of Easy, it’s your future you throw away if you don’t combine and it’s a shameful free ride you take if your BALPA colleagues win and immeasurably improve conditions for you while you sit back mute on the sidelines).
If you do the above you will be in a great position to credibly threaten an opening 12/24 hour stoppage and also pay (through BALPA) for some quality PR, to explain to the UK media that you are trying, through such action, against great odds, to secure the future of your company by improving its efficiency and profitability.
The employers of your CEO – the major city shareholders – will instantly take notice and place him firmly under the spotlight. If he remains obdurate and a short-notice 12/24 hour stoppage results, then the inevitable subsequent city nervousness will ensure that he comes under major pressure to accommodate your very reasonable aspirations.
An exercise in power? You bet!
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What a load of c--p. BALPA PR department, don't make me laugh. The last time they tried a spot of PR the BA dirty tricks dept, took them to the cleaners. There is no inate sympathy out there for people who 'just push buttons' all day and earn a fortune, look around you folks.