easyjet pilots to strike??
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Carruthers, so why do BA BALPA achieve good results? Probably something to do with their large membership and if they're antagonised too much they strike.
What grates at the moment is that BALPA, not the PC (as they work hard enough), are doing sod all to garner support.
Where are the posters? Where are the application forms in the crew rooms? Why isn't someone calling non members to persuade the benefits of BALPA.
1% of ones salary is a lot to pay for inactivity of BALPA.
What grates at the moment is that BALPA, not the PC (as they work hard enough), are doing sod all to garner support.
Where are the posters? Where are the application forms in the crew rooms? Why isn't someone calling non members to persuade the benefits of BALPA.
1% of ones salary is a lot to pay for inactivity of BALPA.
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Think further!
Before you vote yes to the proposal, think further, please.
If you do not like what BALPA has achieved, just say NO and tell them to try again harder!
If you do not like what BALPA has achieved, just say NO and tell them to try again harder!
Last edited by Pittsle; 10th Nov 2003 at 22:43.
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Pittsle my new friend
Sometimes it takes a person on the outside to see things clearly.
There is no mist in front of your eyes. The deal on offer is poor it does not address the issues of fatigue and overwork that directly have a bad effect on safety.
Our lifestyle will not be improved unless we stick together and vote NO.
This so called agreement is half baked and needs more work by BALPA and easyJet.
There is no mist in front of your eyes. The deal on offer is poor it does not address the issues of fatigue and overwork that directly have a bad effect on safety.
Our lifestyle will not be improved unless we stick together and vote NO.
This so called agreement is half baked and needs more work by BALPA and easyJet.
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As another outsider, I would also urge you to vote NO. The reason being that a good result for you will have a positive impact for all UK pilots. You have the advantage over RW, please don't waste this chance to improve things.
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Speedway my second new friend
First of all you have got the measure of easyJet management and as Germans you do not settle for second best with terms and conditions. Low cost does not equal poor terms and conditions for pilots. There is plenty of profit for management bonuses so there should be lots of cash for our terms and conditions.
The pilots in UK easyJet wanted a reasonable rostering agreement the debate at the moment is whether the company have given enough. My judgement is they have not and we are heading for more chaos if the head count and work rate of crew is not improved to produce a workable roster.
I think that easyJet are so keen to get the dba deal that they will not be able to walk away. Ryanair have just taken Buzz and easyJet will have a foothold in Germany. Otherwise they would have walked out on the deal. They will blink first and you will a good settlement. BEST OF LUCK.
The pilots in UK easyJet wanted a reasonable rostering agreement the debate at the moment is whether the company have given enough. My judgement is they have not and we are heading for more chaos if the head count and work rate of crew is not improved to produce a workable roster.
I think that easyJet are so keen to get the dba deal that they will not be able to walk away. Ryanair have just taken Buzz and easyJet will have a foothold in Germany. Otherwise they would have walked out on the deal. They will blink first and you will a good settlement. BEST OF LUCK.
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Moonraker One and unwiseowl
As yet another outsider, I absolutely agree. What can Easy BALPA members possibly gain from voting Yes? (apart from a laughably pathetic package).
However, if they vote No, BALPA has to go in again, following their fresh instructions and if nothing else this would stop Teflon Ray from crowing and New Road from pushing out premature press statements to the effect that the “pilots have called off the strike”.
Meanwhile a No vote and further negotiation will give time for the Non-BALPA Easy Members to reconsider their position and join pdq.
Remember, Non-Members, if you don’t all get your act together, you’ll be completely shafted and you won’t even be able to whine anymore.
BALPA Members, vote No – it’ll give more time for the joiners and you’ve certainly nothing to lose. Good luck.
As yet another outsider, I absolutely agree. What can Easy BALPA members possibly gain from voting Yes? (apart from a laughably pathetic package).
However, if they vote No, BALPA has to go in again, following their fresh instructions and if nothing else this would stop Teflon Ray from crowing and New Road from pushing out premature press statements to the effect that the “pilots have called off the strike”.
Meanwhile a No vote and further negotiation will give time for the Non-BALPA Easy Members to reconsider their position and join pdq.
Remember, Non-Members, if you don’t all get your act together, you’ll be completely shafted and you won’t even be able to whine anymore.
BALPA Members, vote No – it’ll give more time for the joiners and you’ve certainly nothing to lose. Good luck.
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Guys, as an outsider, (and BALPA member) I can't really understand the resistance to BALPA membership.
Is it resistance, or just apathy?
In this job, especially with your employer, I find it very hard to believe you can't afford 1% of your pensionable pay!
Without a union, and the power of collective bargaining, your terms and conditions will only go one way. Driven by those management emoluments and bonuses alluded to earlier.
The only reason your pay and conditions currently look passable is due to market forces. In other words, due to massive growth, Easy needed moderately experienced pilots in fairly large numbers, so had to pay better than other employers to attract them from other airlines.
Market forces appear already to be 'on the change'. This is what is reflected in your employer's apparently derisory offer.
Effective representation means getting a 'fair' deal without striking! That is failure.
But the bigger the stick, the less likely it has to be used.
For those arguing against the union, on anything other than 'personal' reasons:
Get used to bending over, after a while, you'll probably find it "wont hurt a bit!"
- Just an outsider's view. No particular axe to grind.
Good luck
Is it resistance, or just apathy?
In this job, especially with your employer, I find it very hard to believe you can't afford 1% of your pensionable pay!
Without a union, and the power of collective bargaining, your terms and conditions will only go one way. Driven by those management emoluments and bonuses alluded to earlier.
The only reason your pay and conditions currently look passable is due to market forces. In other words, due to massive growth, Easy needed moderately experienced pilots in fairly large numbers, so had to pay better than other employers to attract them from other airlines.
Market forces appear already to be 'on the change'. This is what is reflected in your employer's apparently derisory offer.
Effective representation means getting a 'fair' deal without striking! That is failure.
But the bigger the stick, the less likely it has to be used.
For those arguing against the union, on anything other than 'personal' reasons:
Get used to bending over, after a while, you'll probably find it "wont hurt a bit!"
- Just an outsider's view. No particular axe to grind.
Good luck
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I understand that senior managers have been running around bases like headless chickens for the past few days, trying to drum up support and enthusiasm for their derisory offer - talk about crisis management.
Anyone in Easyjet voting yes for this deal wants their head examining !!!
As do BALPA for recommending it to their members.
I am not one to advocate strike action but for heavens sake BALPA surely you can do better that this.
To my knowledge the deal includes a 6 on 3 off work pattern but they can roster certain 'flexi days' within this agreement. Namely you will not finish until 02:00 on your first day off and can be rostered from 02:00 on your first day back. So you will effectively have only 1 yes 1 ! clear day off.
'Days Off' rosters are published for a 12 months period to allow crews to plan socially but surely you only know that you have 1 absolute day off for certain i.e. your second day.
Am I right in saying that BALPA have successfully negotiated the retention of crew food, however, the crews have to pay 1100 pounds for the priviledge. Nice one BALPA ! Bet the pilots like that little gem.
BALPA you :
1) Have the negotiating ability of a Manatee
2) Overcharge your members ( no one should have to pay more than 25 pounds per month for union representation)
3) Have the most lacklustre and disorganised administrative dept I have ever spoken to.
Another reason BALPA membership is so low in Easyjet must be the huge numbers of foreign pilots within the organisation.
But that's another issue altogether
Anyone in Easyjet voting yes for this deal wants their head examining !!!
As do BALPA for recommending it to their members.
I am not one to advocate strike action but for heavens sake BALPA surely you can do better that this.
To my knowledge the deal includes a 6 on 3 off work pattern but they can roster certain 'flexi days' within this agreement. Namely you will not finish until 02:00 on your first day off and can be rostered from 02:00 on your first day back. So you will effectively have only 1 yes 1 ! clear day off.
'Days Off' rosters are published for a 12 months period to allow crews to plan socially but surely you only know that you have 1 absolute day off for certain i.e. your second day.
Am I right in saying that BALPA have successfully negotiated the retention of crew food, however, the crews have to pay 1100 pounds for the priviledge. Nice one BALPA ! Bet the pilots like that little gem.
BALPA you :
1) Have the negotiating ability of a Manatee
2) Overcharge your members ( no one should have to pay more than 25 pounds per month for union representation)
3) Have the most lacklustre and disorganised administrative dept I have ever spoken to.
Another reason BALPA membership is so low in Easyjet must be the huge numbers of foreign pilots within the organisation.
But that's another issue altogether
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Reject is the only option I think.
Either we get a better deal out of it or the company impose the deal. Both situations will be a win-win for the pilots.
If the company impose it then the 49.7% of members can't blame BALPA members for accepting a deal and the morale will be so low that it might improve membership and it gives BALPA (not the PC) the chance to get off their ars*s at New Road and start providing the materials to effectively recruit.
Therebye we come back to the table with more strength.
If none of the above happens and this pathetic deal goes through then I and several of my colleagues will resign from the union. We can't be the only ones either.....
Either we get a better deal out of it or the company impose the deal. Both situations will be a win-win for the pilots.
If the company impose it then the 49.7% of members can't blame BALPA members for accepting a deal and the morale will be so low that it might improve membership and it gives BALPA (not the PC) the chance to get off their ars*s at New Road and start providing the materials to effectively recruit.
Therebye we come back to the table with more strength.
If none of the above happens and this pathetic deal goes through then I and several of my colleagues will resign from the union. We can't be the only ones either.....
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Buffet Boundary
There is nothing to stop foreign pilots joining Balpa.
Many of our overseas colleagues are indeed members.
Another reason BALPA membership is so low in Easyjet must be the huge numbers of foreign pilots within the organisation.
Many of our overseas colleagues are indeed members.
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So when did BALPA ever improve things? Even at BA with 97% membership things have been steadily deteriating. The pension scheme for one. The latest pay deal isn't what it's cracked up to be. There will never be industrial action in Easy or the other low cost / charter airlines because most guys know the bottom line, are not militant and know that in the long in the long term will never win. Also of course the new joiners to the EU can work in this country straight away, very nice thank you Mr Blair.
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So what if things steadily deteriorated at BA under BALPA? The whole industry is deteriorating everywhere except the boardroom and things would have gone downhill a lot quicker without them. Thanks to BALPA instead of the corporate pay rise this year I'm getting almost 10 times that.
If the easy offer is no good then say no and send it packing. BALPA will take note. Memories are fresh at New Road of what happened to Chris Darke when he disappointed a large constituency of members!
If the easy offer is no good then say no and send it packing. BALPA will take note. Memories are fresh at New Road of what happened to Chris Darke when he disappointed a large constituency of members!
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Workforce have now been balloted(BALPA portion anyway). The vote is to be counted on the 21st.
Anybody from easyJet, who is not happy with their terms and conditions now has it within their power to record that fact.
Anybody from easyJet, who is not happy with their terms and conditions now has it within their power to record that fact.
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Tandemrotor
Excellent post of 7 Feb. Hit the nail on the head.
To quote you, “But the bigger the stick, the less likely it has to be used.”
Precisely – the more members, the bigger the stick – the bigger the stick the more they take notice – the more they take notice, the easier it is to get your message over and get some real terms and conditions as opposed to the opening shot “try-on” your “management” is currently laughing about behind your backs.
As discerning readers will gather, I’m outside the fray and in the words of one of your less discerning colleagues, “stick(ing) to making sandcastles in the desert”. I am however, nearing the end of an eventful professional flying career and whilst my kids affectionately indulge me as an old dinosaur they nevertheless acknowledge that I seem now to be able to view events with a measured perspective and, on a good day with a following wind, not too shoddy a recall of detail.
I exercise the same perspective and recall now and would like to reassure younger Easy pilots that history is merely repeating itself and that there have been similar tussles between pilot bodies and the plethora of ex-dog meat salesmen, baked bean peddlers and snake oil specialists placed above us as management “experts” and intent on “new-brooming” their way to enhanced profits, higher personal bonuses and onward and upward boosts to future positions in the truly stellar reaches of “gravy”.
There have historically been two pilot body responses that I have ever been able to observe. Either they remain supine and apathetic, accepting the diktat from the latest arrivist ignoramus, hence becoming collectively responsible for the inevitable slide in their own terms and conditions plus the accelerating contempt in which they are held by the ever more powerful “management”, or they have done something about it. In the latter case, inevitably, the precondition for action has been strong BALPA membership which has point blank refused to accept unilateral contract changes or onerous terms and conditions and has made this stance crystal clear to both “management” and BALPA. They have similarly made crystal clear that, as a last resort, they have been prepared to sanction 24 hour work stoppages on dates of their own choosing and that they would continue this stance until an equitable settlement was reached between both parties. I have noticed over the years that this collectivism and frame of mind has produced real power for the pilot bodies concerned, as I have further noticed that “managements” seem to respond with impressive alacrity and freshly concentrated, highly accommodating minds only to such naked displays of power and intent, following their consideration of the immediate and dramatic effect that such brief power exercises will have on Cash Flow, Profitability and Share Price.
All of which is to say, to non-BALPA members, please remember that it is only this power that will sway your tormentors and secure your legitimate aspirations to fair treatment and the quiet enjoyment of your profession, following years of qualifying work. Please join the Association now!
I have mentioned before that my motivation for writing on this thread is that I am an ardent supporter of the legitimate aspirations, collective welfare and reclaimed standing of ourselves, the worldwide professional pilot body. As things stand, however, I’ll be very pleased to shortly be leaving it, as, along with so many others, I’ve seen a gradual erosion in our standing, remuneration and employment conditions, all of which we are entirely responsible for, solely as a result of our unwillingness or inability to combine and fight these depradations. Young men and women of Easy, reverse this process now. Stand together and defeat your foe. Please believe me that they will be absolutely terrified if you combine – I’ve seen it before with my own eyes!
Finally, a note to BALPA. Will you kindly stop being so bloody pathetic and do a proper job. The membership is not getting value for money!
Excellent post of 7 Feb. Hit the nail on the head.
To quote you, “But the bigger the stick, the less likely it has to be used.”
Precisely – the more members, the bigger the stick – the bigger the stick the more they take notice – the more they take notice, the easier it is to get your message over and get some real terms and conditions as opposed to the opening shot “try-on” your “management” is currently laughing about behind your backs.
As discerning readers will gather, I’m outside the fray and in the words of one of your less discerning colleagues, “stick(ing) to making sandcastles in the desert”. I am however, nearing the end of an eventful professional flying career and whilst my kids affectionately indulge me as an old dinosaur they nevertheless acknowledge that I seem now to be able to view events with a measured perspective and, on a good day with a following wind, not too shoddy a recall of detail.
I exercise the same perspective and recall now and would like to reassure younger Easy pilots that history is merely repeating itself and that there have been similar tussles between pilot bodies and the plethora of ex-dog meat salesmen, baked bean peddlers and snake oil specialists placed above us as management “experts” and intent on “new-brooming” their way to enhanced profits, higher personal bonuses and onward and upward boosts to future positions in the truly stellar reaches of “gravy”.
There have historically been two pilot body responses that I have ever been able to observe. Either they remain supine and apathetic, accepting the diktat from the latest arrivist ignoramus, hence becoming collectively responsible for the inevitable slide in their own terms and conditions plus the accelerating contempt in which they are held by the ever more powerful “management”, or they have done something about it. In the latter case, inevitably, the precondition for action has been strong BALPA membership which has point blank refused to accept unilateral contract changes or onerous terms and conditions and has made this stance crystal clear to both “management” and BALPA. They have similarly made crystal clear that, as a last resort, they have been prepared to sanction 24 hour work stoppages on dates of their own choosing and that they would continue this stance until an equitable settlement was reached between both parties. I have noticed over the years that this collectivism and frame of mind has produced real power for the pilot bodies concerned, as I have further noticed that “managements” seem to respond with impressive alacrity and freshly concentrated, highly accommodating minds only to such naked displays of power and intent, following their consideration of the immediate and dramatic effect that such brief power exercises will have on Cash Flow, Profitability and Share Price.
All of which is to say, to non-BALPA members, please remember that it is only this power that will sway your tormentors and secure your legitimate aspirations to fair treatment and the quiet enjoyment of your profession, following years of qualifying work. Please join the Association now!
I have mentioned before that my motivation for writing on this thread is that I am an ardent supporter of the legitimate aspirations, collective welfare and reclaimed standing of ourselves, the worldwide professional pilot body. As things stand, however, I’ll be very pleased to shortly be leaving it, as, along with so many others, I’ve seen a gradual erosion in our standing, remuneration and employment conditions, all of which we are entirely responsible for, solely as a result of our unwillingness or inability to combine and fight these depradations. Young men and women of Easy, reverse this process now. Stand together and defeat your foe. Please believe me that they will be absolutely terrified if you combine – I’ve seen it before with my own eyes!
Finally, a note to BALPA. Will you kindly stop being so bloody pathetic and do a proper job. The membership is not getting value for money!
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Anotherpost75 I couldn't agree with you more. However, it always amazes me how well airlines play the 'divide and rule' card. They seem to understand well that pilos are a relatively easy workforce to control.
Give some guys good deals and let others rot.
Give some guys good deals and let others rot.
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What's wrong with us. Pilots are their own worst enemy. ATC fight their corner, as do baggage handlers, airport fire staff even most cabin staff when pushed too far.
We, the last bit of glue to hold it all together. are happy to roll over and ask for our tummies to be tickled as we gobble the last crumb from the table.
When these other links in the chain refuse to be shafted I suspect there is some unspoken admiration for their fortitude. And remember, they usually achieve much of what they were after.
Once a managment has tested the crew's resolve and found it weak, all respect, if there ever was any, will evaporate in the breeze. From then on you will be accused of crying wolf and your bluff will be called everytime.
Ask the guys at SWA how it was for them in the first 5 years; terrible, but they never gave up and look what they achieved.
We, the last bit of glue to hold it all together. are happy to roll over and ask for our tummies to be tickled as we gobble the last crumb from the table.
When these other links in the chain refuse to be shafted I suspect there is some unspoken admiration for their fortitude. And remember, they usually achieve much of what they were after.
Once a managment has tested the crew's resolve and found it weak, all respect, if there ever was any, will evaporate in the breeze. From then on you will be accused of crying wolf and your bluff will be called everytime.
Ask the guys at SWA how it was for them in the first 5 years; terrible, but they never gave up and look what they achieved.
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Anotherpost75 - a well written and well considered snapshot of the present state of affairs. Certainly better than some of the half-assed reasoning I've seen on here, calling everyone "laddie" and running down the skills of every group in the company but your own, which I'm sure we all agree is not the way forward.
One comment, however, about your <<Finally, a note to BALPA. Will you kindly stop being so bloody pathetic and do a proper job>>:
As has been mentioned before in these pages, BALPA is not a big machine that can be wheeled out of a cupboard and set up at the opposite end of the room to the eJ managers...BALPA is "the members".
If the members don't have the stomach for a fight, and I'm talking proper "put your money where your mouth is" action, the cause is all but lost. Divide and rule and other classic management tactics will only be effective if the troops roll over and let "them" have their way.
One comment, however, about your <<Finally, a note to BALPA. Will you kindly stop being so bloody pathetic and do a proper job>>:
As has been mentioned before in these pages, BALPA is not a big machine that can be wheeled out of a cupboard and set up at the opposite end of the room to the eJ managers...BALPA is "the members".
If the members don't have the stomach for a fight, and I'm talking proper "put your money where your mouth is" action, the cause is all but lost. Divide and rule and other classic management tactics will only be effective if the troops roll over and let "them" have their way.