easyJet Morale Rock Bottom
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Can I just say as an easyJet training captain that the pilots here are exactly the same as pilots everywhere.The vast majority are very good guys/girls doing a very good job in trust me,the most trying of circumstances.To the Go pilots I can assure you we will be very happy to work with you on a professional and personal basis.Any trepidation about our coming together should be directed at our (soon to be) collective management.There is a lot of accuracy in the saner comments already stated here.If any interviewee was treated in an arrogant and smug manner,then I am personally embarassed to be associated with that attitude.I am sure the external perception of easy is that we are an orange cult,running around like moonies.If any of the pilots have bought into the fatuous concept of 'orangeness', then I have yet to meet them.I refer again to my first sentence.We are in dire need right now of some sensible guidance from our union.Let's wait and see.
Colonel Clink
I seem to remember Harry Goodman announcing record profits of £47 million at the 1990 Christmas Bash. Air Europe went bust the following March!
I seem to remember Harry Goodman announcing record profits of £47 million at the 1990 Christmas Bash. Air Europe went bust the following March!
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Brakedwell!! Don't get me started on Air Europe! Yes, you are quite right about it's going bust following record profits, something I don't believe will happen to easyJet. The Low cost model has proven to be very robust and even survived 9/11 very well. The ONE thing easjet does do well is put bums on seats.
By contrast however, Air Europe had a loyal pilot workforce most of whom (including myself) would still be there today if it were still going, such was the degree of respect that the management were held in, and we in turn felt respected and a necessary part of the operation and futiure of the company.
It was a quality operation in every respect, one that all pilots felt proud to be a part of. Salaries were excellent, without the "Bargain basement" feeling that current negotiations are producing. Uniforms were supplied, medicals paid for, meals were too (without threatening to have them removed) and most importantly (read this Ray) the company had a huge spirit that far surpasses anything "orange" being shoved down one's throat!! Nothing was too much trouble at AE, contast this with leaving a message at easyland, anyone who has knows what I mean as your calls will never be returned.The bottom line is: it was a happy airline and no one (very few, anyway) ever left.
By contrast however, Air Europe had a loyal pilot workforce most of whom (including myself) would still be there today if it were still going, such was the degree of respect that the management were held in, and we in turn felt respected and a necessary part of the operation and futiure of the company.
It was a quality operation in every respect, one that all pilots felt proud to be a part of. Salaries were excellent, without the "Bargain basement" feeling that current negotiations are producing. Uniforms were supplied, medicals paid for, meals were too (without threatening to have them removed) and most importantly (read this Ray) the company had a huge spirit that far surpasses anything "orange" being shoved down one's throat!! Nothing was too much trouble at AE, contast this with leaving a message at easyland, anyone who has knows what I mean as your calls will never be returned.The bottom line is: it was a happy airline and no one (very few, anyway) ever left.
Simmer down Colonel Klink, take your pills. I too was with Air Europe. In fact I joined on day one and was left high and dry in Bangor at the end. I agree it was a good outfit to work for the first ten years, however towards the end the rapid expansion got out of hand and management lost the plot. A bit like EZ I suppose.
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Things were generally ok until around April of this year, when the new rosters were introduced. At that point everything went to hell in a hurry eventually making a guest appearance in both the newspapers and news at 10. At the same time recruitment was frozen, new aircraft and routes appeared on what seemed to be a weekly basis and those at the top awarded themselves a huge cash bonus whilst simultaneously denying there were any problems. ( Crisis, what crisis?).
The "admission " that the new rosters were "rubbish" was nothing more than words, nothing has changed and crewing still work on a day to day firefighting basis. Any objections are met with "its legal". Blowing ones head off with a 12 bore is legal as well but hardly sensible.
Those fortunate enough to have found alternative employment are told that there is no way back into the company, ever.Despite this, people are now starting to drift away, many willing to take the risk that Dubya and Blair will blow the world up before Xmas and would rather do something outside aviation than work under such conditions again.
Its all a great shame, and I cant help thinking that it will blow up in the faces of the orange godfathers before too long.
The "admission " that the new rosters were "rubbish" was nothing more than words, nothing has changed and crewing still work on a day to day firefighting basis. Any objections are met with "its legal". Blowing ones head off with a 12 bore is legal as well but hardly sensible.
Those fortunate enough to have found alternative employment are told that there is no way back into the company, ever.Despite this, people are now starting to drift away, many willing to take the risk that Dubya and Blair will blow the world up before Xmas and would rather do something outside aviation than work under such conditions again.
Its all a great shame, and I cant help thinking that it will blow up in the faces of the orange godfathers before too long.
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<<however towards the end the rapid expansion got out of hand and management lost the plot>>....bums on seats doesn't matter a toss, it's all YIELD - low cost, high cost, short haul, long haul - it doesn't matter. I'm gonna say it one more time, this is Air Europe all over again, don't come crying to me when it all goes t**s up.
(Yes I was there and the story about HG at the Xmas "Do" is true)
(Yes I was there and the story about HG at the Xmas "Do" is true)
DIRECTOR
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TaILSCRAPE It was not me but someone else who uses just 'gypsy' as his name. He joined after me and I took it up with them in PPrune whose reply was if I did not like it I could always change my callsign!!!!
I have nothing to do with Easyjet and am an expat
I have nothing to do with Easyjet and am an expat
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In my humble opinion, the current state of the industry was clearly written on the wall, with the arrival of the so-called "low cost airline" model. This was allways going to have repercussions throughout the UK industry and those that refused to change their structure, caught a cold. Some as we know recognising this far too late.
However, allthough no one can argue, that the downward pressure on ticket price currently benefits joe public, we can hardly appear suprised at the terms and conditions that are beginning to evolve within the industry.
Companies are run generally by the accountant, and he has no concept of staff good will. How much saving will the company make with generally happy staff? This cannot be quantified and therefore is not a factor for consideration. If we can squeeze a few more flight hours out of that crew, or reduce the number of breaks that despatcher has, then the accountant can factor that in to his calculations, all is therefore well with the world.
The company line is that they must compete in the market place.
What the more competitive market place does do however, is highlight those, in management postions, who are clearly not up to the job. Anyone can plug numbers into a calculator, it takes real management to factor in the unseen costs.
Both Flight Crew and joe public have bought into the perceived "low cost" ethos and as a result we should not be suprised by it's eventual effect on the whole industry.
However, allthough no one can argue, that the downward pressure on ticket price currently benefits joe public, we can hardly appear suprised at the terms and conditions that are beginning to evolve within the industry.
Companies are run generally by the accountant, and he has no concept of staff good will. How much saving will the company make with generally happy staff? This cannot be quantified and therefore is not a factor for consideration. If we can squeeze a few more flight hours out of that crew, or reduce the number of breaks that despatcher has, then the accountant can factor that in to his calculations, all is therefore well with the world.
The company line is that they must compete in the market place.
What the more competitive market place does do however, is highlight those, in management postions, who are clearly not up to the job. Anyone can plug numbers into a calculator, it takes real management to factor in the unseen costs.
Both Flight Crew and joe public have bought into the perceived "low cost" ethos and as a result we should not be suprised by it's eventual effect on the whole industry.
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Must be the bean counters behind the proposed pay deal then! Something like less company pension contributions, cancel the annual bonus, and it all balances out at about a 1% pay decrease!! Same bean counters rostering earlies into lates, and planned monthly flying of 99:45 - legal, but kn@ckering!
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The questions about the arrival of the 'low cost airline model' are interesting. From having watched the arrival of the low cost long haul airlines (Braniff & People Express) in the days when the long haul market was far more restrictive, I can't say I ever understood why they failed. Seemingly excellent staff relations, happy and very flexible staff, good customer reputation, it seemed the future was in their hands, and they sadly failed. Maybe their time wasn't ready. Can we say for sure that it is the low cost short haul time now? They've had an excellent FEW years- will it last? I hope so- aviation is healthier with them here.
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LTN MAN
Such low flight hours are not the norm and you know it, besides which the problem is duty hours. The idiot in charge of that dept (xxxxxxx) has the incredible belief that crew productivity is gauged by duty time and not flight time, hence loads of positioning, unusable/unneccessary stand bys etc.
NO SIG
Exactly our point! The integration team are managers, and are hence very happy people because they never have to bear any responsibility for the mess they create, rarely have to work nights, weekends or holidays, don't have to put up with the bullying tactics and are the only ones to believe the spin and propaganda from the Clockwork Orange.
Use of personal names not allowed
Such low flight hours are not the norm and you know it, besides which the problem is duty hours. The idiot in charge of that dept (xxxxxxx) has the incredible belief that crew productivity is gauged by duty time and not flight time, hence loads of positioning, unusable/unneccessary stand bys etc.
NO SIG
Exactly our point! The integration team are managers, and are hence very happy people because they never have to bear any responsibility for the mess they create, rarely have to work nights, weekends or holidays, don't have to put up with the bullying tactics and are the only ones to believe the spin and propaganda from the Clockwork Orange.
Use of personal names not allowed
Last edited by Hamrah; 29th Sep 2002 at 17:51.
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Whippersnapper
Your use of a member of our staff name on a public forum is out of order. Unless you are prepared to post your actual name I suggest you edit your post immediately, you're out of line.
Your use of a member of our staff name on a public forum is out of order. Unless you are prepared to post your actual name I suggest you edit your post immediately, you're out of line.
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I went to the Easy roadshow at EGNX. What suprised me most was that I couldnt hear a word sitting at the back because the speakers didnt feel the need for a microphone.
Remembering my previous "business" life, I thought how much of a kicking I would have received if I had made such an elementary mistake in a presentation to people I wished to impress...
Remembering my previous "business" life, I thought how much of a kicking I would have received if I had made such an elementary mistake in a presentation to people I wished to impress...
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Vicar,
Maybe they're used to everyone nodding whether they can be heard or not!
Like it or not, there are two sides to easyJet. The commercial planning/revenue/brand-building is superb. The operational management is a joke, and not a funny one.
Some time ago, this airline decided to brand itself an 'industry leader in terms of pay and conditions'. This went, of course, down the proverbial flushing mechanism.
The potential for easyJet to be a great airline is there. The management is not. The company's identification of this as fact, will be the turning point in their fortunes.
As to whether they will go bust or not, it doesn't matter to me (though our pilot recruitment will be no bother for a while!!!), but it does matter to them.
Time for some hard decisions, acknowldegement that some positions (one for definite) are untenable, and a good clear out of the board. Replace the dross with people who make sound decisions, progress them, and aren't afraid of standing up for their views. Then, a competent, inspirational figure-head to get the people pushing forward instead of pulling back, and the world may be (quite liderally) their oyster!
Maybe they're used to everyone nodding whether they can be heard or not!
Like it or not, there are two sides to easyJet. The commercial planning/revenue/brand-building is superb. The operational management is a joke, and not a funny one.
Some time ago, this airline decided to brand itself an 'industry leader in terms of pay and conditions'. This went, of course, down the proverbial flushing mechanism.
The potential for easyJet to be a great airline is there. The management is not. The company's identification of this as fact, will be the turning point in their fortunes.
As to whether they will go bust or not, it doesn't matter to me (though our pilot recruitment will be no bother for a while!!!), but it does matter to them.
Time for some hard decisions, acknowldegement that some positions (one for definite) are untenable, and a good clear out of the board. Replace the dross with people who make sound decisions, progress them, and aren't afraid of standing up for their views. Then, a competent, inspirational figure-head to get the people pushing forward instead of pulling back, and the world may be (quite liderally) their oyster!
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This is not good news at all, how can people do this to an airline like yours, boy...EASYJET AND GO Pilots talking like this...
Morale rock bottom at easy due derisory pay and conditions changes soon to be announced.
Fat cat management laughing all the way to the bank with pilots and cabin crew working to maximum FTL.
Effective cut in overall package being kept under wraps by senior management until they can decide how to sell it to the pilot workforce.
Potential industrial action by up to 49% of pilots looming.
Many size 9s thinking of walking.
AND THEN
I think the truly offensive thing about this is the 'spin' put on by the managers at easyJet. Their 'head-in-the-sand' attitude displays either incredible ignorance of what's going on in their airline, or utter stupidity in their approach to 'managing' it.
With the inspirational Stelios gone, those calling the shots lack credibility, respect, ability, and even basic management skills.
The remarks about Barbara (above) are spot on. She used her vision, drive, and principles to build a fine airline. So did Stelios. He stepped out, she stood for what she believed in and had to let go.
My only question is, whether the airline's founder will grasp the nettle and set about re-building the business? He built the brand in a magnificent manner, and should keep a close watch on a potential failure.
AGAIN
Can I just say as an easyJet training captain that the pilots here are exactly the same as pilots everywhere.The vast majority are very good guys/girls doing a very good job in trust me,the most trying of circumstances.To the Go pilots I can assure you we will be very happy to work with you on a professional and personal basis.Any trepidation about our coming together should be directed at our (soon to be) collective management.There is a lot of accuracy in the saner comments already stated here.If any interviewee was treated in an arrogant and smug manner,then I am personally embarassed to be associated with that attitude.I am sure the external perception of easy is that we are an orange cult,running around like moonies.If any of the pilots have bought into the fatuous concept of 'orangeness', then I have yet to meet them.I refer again to my first sentence.We are in dire need right now of some sensible guidance from our union.Let's wait and see.
OKAY !
So if you all go with the idea of popular opinion, what is the solution to this whole saga, because by the looks of things here something drastic has to take place for things to change for the better. Please let no one bring these two airlines to an end.
Just concerned
Zazoo
Morale rock bottom at easy due derisory pay and conditions changes soon to be announced.
Fat cat management laughing all the way to the bank with pilots and cabin crew working to maximum FTL.
Effective cut in overall package being kept under wraps by senior management until they can decide how to sell it to the pilot workforce.
Potential industrial action by up to 49% of pilots looming.
Many size 9s thinking of walking.
AND THEN
I think the truly offensive thing about this is the 'spin' put on by the managers at easyJet. Their 'head-in-the-sand' attitude displays either incredible ignorance of what's going on in their airline, or utter stupidity in their approach to 'managing' it.
With the inspirational Stelios gone, those calling the shots lack credibility, respect, ability, and even basic management skills.
The remarks about Barbara (above) are spot on. She used her vision, drive, and principles to build a fine airline. So did Stelios. He stepped out, she stood for what she believed in and had to let go.
My only question is, whether the airline's founder will grasp the nettle and set about re-building the business? He built the brand in a magnificent manner, and should keep a close watch on a potential failure.
AGAIN
Can I just say as an easyJet training captain that the pilots here are exactly the same as pilots everywhere.The vast majority are very good guys/girls doing a very good job in trust me,the most trying of circumstances.To the Go pilots I can assure you we will be very happy to work with you on a professional and personal basis.Any trepidation about our coming together should be directed at our (soon to be) collective management.There is a lot of accuracy in the saner comments already stated here.If any interviewee was treated in an arrogant and smug manner,then I am personally embarassed to be associated with that attitude.I am sure the external perception of easy is that we are an orange cult,running around like moonies.If any of the pilots have bought into the fatuous concept of 'orangeness', then I have yet to meet them.I refer again to my first sentence.We are in dire need right now of some sensible guidance from our union.Let's wait and see.
OKAY !
So if you all go with the idea of popular opinion, what is the solution to this whole saga, because by the looks of things here something drastic has to take place for things to change for the better. Please let no one bring these two airlines to an end.
Just concerned
Zazoo
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thedude wrote:
Companies are run generally by the accountant, and he has no concept of staff good will. How much saving will the company make with generally happy staff? This cannot be quantified and therefore is not a factor for consideration.
Companies are run generally by the accountant, and he has no concept of staff good will. How much saving will the company make with generally happy staff? This cannot be quantified and therefore is not a factor for consideration.
So happy people certainly can make a difference to your bottom line - hopefully *somebody* cursed with the job of accountancy will realise this.
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No matter what 'spin' is attached to the proposed but secret pay decrease, the management are in for a very big surprise when it is unveiled.
Without doubt, for eJ to have a future the present management AND management style will have to go. Maybe this derisory pay deal will be the beginning of the end for them.
Without doubt, for eJ to have a future the present management AND management style will have to go. Maybe this derisory pay deal will be the beginning of the end for them.
I'm sad to see morale is so low at easyJet but while there are pilots willing to join, the management have the upper hand. A lot of pilots at my company, KLMuk, are so gloomy about their future that they are looking elsewhere, me included. I know of one guy already who is joining easy in the new year and I fear a lot of others may follow. I'm mainly monitoring PPrune just to get some idea of what's happening at any possible future employers, and as I don't particularly fancy charter or long haul, my options are limited.
