Pegasus accident in SAW; just reported
PJ2.
Your statement about SFP was straight out wrong. The reason there has been a bit of reaction to it is that like many posts on the internet now days it was made as a statement of fact with an air of authority about it. This kind of confident posting of inaccurate information is rife and frustrates many.
There are many differences between SFP and non-SFP. One difference that I notice is that the thrust reduces to idle in two seconds if you quickly close the thrust levers rather than five seconds on the non-SFP. It’s much nicer on the SFP than the non-SFP as you can more accurately control the point of touch-down in gusty conditions. Also, if you accurately set your Vref it is slower than on the non-SFP aircraft by a knot or two.
Hope that helps, Cheers
Your statement about SFP was straight out wrong. The reason there has been a bit of reaction to it is that like many posts on the internet now days it was made as a statement of fact with an air of authority about it. This kind of confident posting of inaccurate information is rife and frustrates many.
There are many differences between SFP and non-SFP. One difference that I notice is that the thrust reduces to idle in two seconds if you quickly close the thrust levers rather than five seconds on the non-SFP. It’s much nicer on the SFP than the non-SFP as you can more accurately control the point of touch-down in gusty conditions. Also, if you accurately set your Vref it is slower than on the non-SFP aircraft by a knot or two.
Hope that helps, Cheers
You're the second poster who has lept in before reading the post carefully and mistaking the authorship of the info on SFP.
Please read the post before characterizing another contributor's writing as "inaccurate". Make sure you're addressing the correct author, otherwise you're doing exactly what you have accused another of doing.
In my post, here, I said:
Here is what B737.org has to say, as linked to previously:
PJ2
Thanks for that, most enightening. So, never established in a stable approach and in stark contrast to the professionalism we witnessed yesterday, it was press on itis.
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Only half a speed-brake
In the light of about 9 coherent datapoints at 1000' AFE marked within the 2.0-2.2 NM range, and the continuation to land by the crew from there, perhaps we can cut some slack to a fast typing poster. Although from an HF viewpoint the two situations actually don't link together.
The -800 can take a lot of beating before being pushed into the over-run.
.
Yes, I've been wrong about ADS-B readings in the LGW / Pence overrun. Those were false zeroes taken at face value, though.
The -800 can take a lot of beating before being pushed into the over-run.
Yes, I've been wrong about ADS-B readings in the LGW / Pence overrun. Those were false zeroes taken at face value, though.
A fair point & perhaps poorly expressed, but:If I were an insurer, or more to the point, potential PAX, then I would look at the record and worry that there was a cultural probllem in this company. If it walks like a duck.....
Let's hope I am proven wrong.
Let's hope I am proven wrong.
FYI Pegasus, along with Futura in Spain were both set up with alot of assistance and IIRC £££ from Aer Lingus.........
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I’m confused. Are you saying the short field package does not affect landing performance/distance, and then you post information that shows it does exactly that?
I fly both versions, and I don’t need a book to tell me this package reduces landing distance. I can feel it. We fly these versions into airports with short runways, and it makes a big difference.
The challenge is you only get full leading edges when flaps extends beyond 25. That makes tailwind approaches a challenge, more so if the GS angle is more than 3 degrees. Early speed reduction and the use of landing gear to slow down is common.
I fly both versions, and I don’t need a book to tell me this package reduces landing distance. I can feel it. We fly these versions into airports with short runways, and it makes a big difference.
The challenge is you only get full leading edges when flaps extends beyond 25. That makes tailwind approaches a challenge, more so if the GS angle is more than 3 degrees. Early speed reduction and the use of landing gear to slow down is common.
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Hearing from escapees from Pegasus, 5 or so years ago they took on quite a few Western expat captains and it looked like the operating culture might align more with European standards ... but it seems most or all expats ran away very quickly when fed an endless diet of lies, broken promises, and supposed EASA style rules (eg FTLs) only applied as a very rough "guideline", and only when they felt like it.
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SFP OPTION:
• A reduced idle thrust transition delay
between approach- and ground-idle speeds, which improves stopping distances and in- creases field-length-limited landing weight.
• Increased flight-spoiler deflection from 30 degrees to 60 degrees, which aids brake performance when landing.
• A two-position tailskid at the rear of the aircraft. The tailskid protects longer- bodied 737-800s and -900ERs against inad- vertent tailstrikes during landing, which al- lows higher aircraft approach attitudes and lower landing speeds.
It wouldn't have mattered if they had parachutes!, they die was cast once they decided to land.. or rather didn't elect for a missed approach like the preceding 2 aircraft.
• A reduced idle thrust transition delay
between approach- and ground-idle speeds, which improves stopping distances and in- creases field-length-limited landing weight.
• Increased flight-spoiler deflection from 30 degrees to 60 degrees, which aids brake performance when landing.
• A two-position tailskid at the rear of the aircraft. The tailskid protects longer- bodied 737-800s and -900ERs against inad- vertent tailstrikes during landing, which al- lows higher aircraft approach attitudes and lower landing speeds.
It wouldn't have mattered if they had parachutes!, they die was cast once they decided to land.. or rather didn't elect for a missed approach like the preceding 2 aircraft.
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Things were under control till recently, seems arrogance and negligence are back ...
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It wouldn't have mattered if they had parachutes!, they die was cast once they decided to land.. or rather didn't elect for a missed approach like the preceding 2 aircraft.
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Looks like p104 in https://www.onderzoeksraad.nl/nl/med...t_s_dekker.pdf
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I don't believe this is quite correct. The FMC derived headwind/tailwind component is actually quite accurate, although it does have an averaging function and thus not instantaneous. The crosswind component on the other hand is not reliable. There were other cues, GS, ROD, thrust levers back close to idle and the visual picture would have looked like a rocketship.
There is a good paper on this tha covers FMC wind component calculation: Safety aspects of tailwind operationsSafety aspects of tailwind operations Safety aspects of tailwind operations G.W.H. van Es and A.K. Karwal
There is a good paper on this tha covers FMC wind component calculation: Safety aspects of tailwind operationsSafety aspects of tailwind operations Safety aspects of tailwind operations G.W.H. van Es and A.K. Karwal