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Ryanair UK pilots vote for strike

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Ryanair UK pilots vote for strike

Old 13th Aug 2019, 07:12
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Originally Posted by BBJ-Captain View Post
There are hundreds of contract pilots within Ryanair.
I presume that Balpa (as the recognised union within Ryanair) will insist on these Ďtemporary contractí pilots will be released from service before a single striking/Balpa member is given mandatory redundancy?!
I doubt it.
One thing Iíve learned about Balpa over the many years of membership is that they like to talk and shout and organise and incite action from the pilots, but when it comes down to it, they rarely elect to fight the battle themselves.
Its a standard given that you canít keep Ďfull timeí contractors on the books and have them working and flying, whilst making permanent staff redundant.

Personally I am glad for the girlsíníguys who will put their head above the parapet and actually strike. Unfortunately, Ryanair will target them and dismiss them. This is precisely why MOL made the press release stating that there will be job cuts. Itís an attempt to legitimise the dismissals, and the Ďzero hourí Storm contracts will see the agency pilots sit out a month of flying (which they have to have off every year anyway in a thinly vailed attempt to try and convince the rest of the worldís tax authorities they arenít permanent employees) to again try and validate the airlines downsizing.
Letís just see what Balpa does the help them when the axe comes falling.

Finally, I wish all at easyjet the best from the Ryanair management ship jumping;
First there was WB
Old rostering manager - JB
Old DDFO - SC
Old DFO/COO - PB

easyJetís ĎOrange Spirití will soon be blue and yellow!
More misinformed nonsense. It would be illegal for Ryanair to dismiss workers for striking under an organised Trade Union strike. So Ryanair will not do it, for fear of illegal dismissal claims which would be easily proved, resulting in huge numbers of claims carrying unlimited costs to the company.

This is the power of having a trade union. This is why companies, the likes of Ryanair will seek to move heaven and earth to not have union recognition in the first place and spread misinformation and false hoods to try and limit industrial action.

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Old 13th Aug 2019, 08:24
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Originally Posted by Boeing 7E7 View Post


More misinformed nonsense. It would be illegal for Ryanair to dismiss workers for striking under an organised Trade Union strike. So Ryanair will not do it, for fear of illegal dismissal claims which would be easily proved, resulting in huge numbers of claims carrying unlimited costs to the company.

This is the power of having a trade union. This is why companies, the likes of Ryanair will seek to move heaven and earth to not have union recognition in the first place and spread misinformation and false hoods to try and limit industrial action.

Youíre joking arenít you?! Ryanair have dismissed people for years because they are members of Balpa, questioned management or went public with working practices, or even were sick. Cabin crew have been sacked on performance and sales related issues for decades.
The company often is taken to court for employment related issues and often settles out of court with large payouts and a no publicity/gagging clause.
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Old 13th Aug 2019, 09:30
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Originally Posted by BBJ-Captain View Post


Youíre joking arenít you?! Ryanair have dismissed people for years because they are members of Balpa, questioned management or went public with working practices, or even were sick. Cabin crew have been sacked on performance and sales related issues for decades.
The company often is taken to court for employment related issues and often settles out of court with large payouts and a no publicity/gagging clause.
Do you really think they will sack staff for taking part in a legal industrial action, from a legal ballot by a union they have recognized? Even for them that would be mental.

Ireland, Italy, Portugal,Germany Spain have all had strikes under Ryanair and no one has been sacked. There are laws protecting striking workers within the UK!

I would have have really hoped that all airline staff would have backed staff of ryr, for when the terms go down in ryr, they follow throughout the industry. What happens here, will effect everyone!
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Old 13th Aug 2019, 09:51
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Originally Posted by UAV689 View Post
I would have have really hoped that all airline staff would have backed staff of ryr, for when the terms go down in ryr, they follow throughout the industry. What happens here, will effect everyone!
This I very much agree with. I stand with these guys and totally agree with that they are doing. Itís been a long time coming believe me!

Maybe there should be a trade union wide ballot to strike (as in other countries and other sectors), rather than just company specific. A staged walkout by all pilots to try and generalised and standardised term and conditions across the industry to ensure that the erosion and reduction ceases.
Just a thought.
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Old 13th Aug 2019, 12:17
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Originally Posted by Boeing 7E7 View Post


More misinformed nonsense. It would be illegal for Ryanair to dismiss workers for striking under an organised Trade Union strike. So Ryanair will not do it, for fear of illegal dismissal claims which would be easily proved, resulting in huge numbers of claims carrying unlimited costs to the company.
oh but the costs are very limited.

The maximum amount that you can be awarded as compensation for Unfair Dismissal is presently the statutory capof £86,444, or 52 weeks gross salary- whichever is the lower. This is in addition to the basic award which can be ordered by the Tribunal of up to a maximum of £15,750. These figures are from 6th April 2019

dismiss a few of the more vocal strikers (not the reps they have access to immediate relief)Ē pour encouragers les autresĒ

let them take you to employment tribunal in say 12-18 months. Donít even need an expensive solicitor if you admit it all.

Unfortunately UK employment law is pathetic and only get worse for workers.


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Old 13th Aug 2019, 15:41
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After browsing through this thread, I've realized I don't miss Leo Hairy Camel that much.

Originally Posted by Gove N.T. View Post
The pilot chooses to work for the company in full knowledge that they may be called to work during holiday seasons so has no legitimate right to whinge.
Yeah! Instead of working for Ryanair, they should have become LoCo 738 pilots like me and get three weeks off during the summer or maybe even go play with the sidesticks like my classmate who gets 3x10 days off in Jun-Aug, LoCo also.
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Old 13th Aug 2019, 17:51
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Originally Posted by BBJ-Captain View Post


Youíre joking arenít you?! Ryanair have dismissed people for years because they are members of Balpa, questioned management or went public with working practices, or even were sick. Cabin crew have been sacked on performance and sales related issues for decades.
The company often is taken to court for employment related issues and often settles out of court with large payouts and a no publicity/gagging clause.

You have missed the point. Itís not about membership of BALPA but rather taking part in industrial action.
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Old 13th Aug 2019, 17:54
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Originally Posted by back to Boeing View Post


oh but the costs are very limited.

The maximum amount that you can be awarded as compensation for Unfair Dismissal is presently the statutory capof £86,444, or 52 weeks gross salary- whichever is the lower. This is in addition to the basic award which can be ordered by the Tribunal of up to a maximum of £15,750. These figures are from 6th April 2019

dismiss a few of the more vocal strikers (not the reps they have access to immediate relief)Ē pour encouragers les autresĒ

let them take you to employment tribunal in say 12-18 months. Donít even need an expensive solicitor if you admit it all.

Unfortunately UK employment law is pathetic and only get worse for workers.


An individual is protected by law when taking part in a strike that is called for by a trade union.
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Old 13th Aug 2019, 22:22
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Originally Posted by Boeing 7E7 View Post

An individual is protected by law when taking part in a strike that is called for by a trade union.
ill try to explain it again simply.

Yes they are protected. If they are sacked for taking part in industrial action it is automatically unfair dismissal. However they still need to go to an employment tribunal, which will take 12-18 months to organise, and the payout is still limited to the figures I stated earlier.

You're not so naive to believe that no striking worker hasnít been sacked in the past or will be sacked in the future are you??
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Old 14th Aug 2019, 08:23
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Originally Posted by back to Boeing View Post


ill try to explain it again simply.

Yes they are protected. If they are sacked for taking part in industrial action it is automatically unfair dismissal. However they still need to go to an employment tribunal, which will take 12-18 months to organise, and the payout is still limited to the figures I stated earlier.

You're not so naive to believe that no striking worker hasnít been sacked in the past or will be sacked in the future are you??
Iíll try and explain it to you again simply. Industrial action has taken place successfully in companies since before you were born. The intent of your statement is clear and that is to instil fear by playing on peopleís ignorance. Following your logic that a striking worker may have been targeted and directly or indirectly sacked due to taking part in industrial action, it can therefore also be said that a person may die the next time they cross the road, have a minor surgical procedure or fly as a passenger on a plane. Your motivations are to scaremonger.
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Old 14th Aug 2019, 09:36
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Anything but. Having been a BALPA union rep in the past and a very active member and supporter Iím just trying to point out the realities of industrial action in the UK.
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Old 14th Aug 2019, 09:38
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Instead of arguing amongst ourselves just read the gov.uk facts

Dismissal for industrial action
You can’t be dismissed for industrial action if:
it’s called as a result of a properly organised ballot
it’s about a trade dispute between workers and their employer (eg about your terms and conditions)
a detailed notice about the industrial action (which is legally required) has been given to the employer at least 7 days before it begins
You can claim unfair dismissal at an employment tribunal if you’re dismissed for taking industrial action at any time within the 12 weeks after the action began.

After 12 weeks, you can be dismissed if you take industrial action and your employer has tried to settle the dispute. For example, your employer may bring in advisers from Acas to help find a solution.
​​​​​​​
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Old 14th Aug 2019, 10:30
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Originally Posted by back to Boeing View Post
Anything but. Having been a BALPA union rep in the past and a very active member and supporter Iím just trying to point out the realities of industrial action in the UK.
Thanks. But what evidence do you have to support this stance, other than your opinion expressed here.
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Old 14th Aug 2019, 10:31
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Originally Posted by iome View Post
Instead of arguing amongst ourselves just read the gov.uk facts


Thank you, this has been very helpful.
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Old 14th Aug 2019, 10:44
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Ryanair have had this coming for years. They claimed union recognition a few years ago, but it was only a news headline with no substance.
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Old 14th Aug 2019, 11:53
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I have never said it isnít unlawful to dismiss someone who is taking lawful industrial action. Just like it is unlawful to dismiss someone because they are coloured or a woman or disabled etc etc.

Doesnít mean that it doesnít happen. If companies acted entirely within employment law we would have no need for employment tribunals. But funnily enough we do have them.

In previous careers I have very much seen ďtrouble makersĒ unlawfully dismissed but the employer deemed it cheaper and easier to get rid.

If you think Ryanair wouldnít sack a handful of employees during an industrial dispute if it saw an advantage then you are very very naive. Yes it would be totally illegal but the only restitution is through an employment tribunal. It would take you 12-18 months to get there, and you would only get a very minimal payout (relatively) Ryanairís solicitor of choice is very well versed and very well practiced in employment tribunals and industrial disputes in all UK industries.

Just because something is illegal doesnít mean it doesnít happen!!!
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Old 14th Aug 2019, 15:08
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Originally Posted by back to Boeing View Post
I have never said it isnít unlawful to dismiss someone who is taking lawful industrial action. Just like it is unlawful to dismiss someone because they are coloured or a woman or disabled etc etc.
Lol! There is one noun in there that shows just how out of touch you are! Enough said.
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Old 14th Aug 2019, 17:52
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Apologies. English isnít my mother tongue so youíll have to elaborate. However I am very au fait with nasty employers and unfair dismissal cases having been sat as a rep right next to them as they were told to leave the building and as a witness in their unfair dismissal cases.

But youre the expert here 🙄
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Old 15th Aug 2019, 03:43
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Originally Posted by back to Boeing View Post
Apologies. English isnít my mother tongue so youíll have to elaborate. However I am very au fait with nasty employers and unfair dismissal cases having been sat as a rep right next to them as they were told to leave the building and as a witness in their unfair dismissal cases.

But youre the expert here 🙄
You sat as a rep right next to them... and these employees had taken part in industrial action legally organised by their trade union, BALPA? No. Thought not. And this is what this thread is about. Itís not about Ďnasty employersí doing Ďnasty thingsí.
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Old 15th Aug 2019, 07:58
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People will be getting bored of this but Iíll say it one last time and leave the thread to get back to the actual title.

I was sat sat next to people who were about to be unfairly dismissed. And I have been a witness in employment tribunals.

If you are sacked for taking part in a correctly organised trade union dispute (whether that is strike or action short of strike) then that is unfair dismissal.

However your recourse is exactly the same whether you are sacked for striking or you are sacked for any other unfair reason. Just because the strike is legal doesnít mean you canít be unlawfully dismissed.

Your former employer will just suck up the ďfineĒ and move on.

It really isnít hard to understand. Anyone can be sacked. Itís up to an employment tribunal to sort out the details much much later.
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