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MH17 down near Donetsk

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MH17 down near Donetsk

Old 4th Nov 2014, 12:15
  #1421 (permalink)  
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Iron has been mentioned before in the context of the sample of 25 embedded objects. Dutch chief prosecutor Fred Westerbeke described the samples as 25 pieces of iron. At that time (Sept. 12) he was investigating whether the pieces came from a ground to air missile.

It wasn't reported whether any of the other 475 embedded objects contained iron. It wasn't reported whether they also examined all foreign objects for metals other than iron, such as tungsten, that are hard and dense enough for military application as penetrators.

The comfortable assumption is that the investigators are professionals who of course are interested in any and every foreign object that could have penetrated the aircraft. Perhaps they will say so eventually, but so far they haven't.
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Old 6th Nov 2014, 13:53
  #1422 (permalink)  
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The Dutch Safety Board has commissioned the recovery and transportation to the Netherlands of wreckage from flight MH17.

Dutch Safety Board | Investigations & Publication | Investigation crash MH17, 17 July 2014
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Old 6th Nov 2014, 21:59
  #1423 (permalink)  
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Yes, they will finally recover the parts and send these to the Netherlands, probably to Eindhoven. The chairman of the DSB has already been interviewed about this.

The last few days there were a lot of developments: first the news that Ukraine, OVSE and the rebels were negotiating over the recovery of the wreckage, and just a few days later the confirmation that recovery will start soon. Recovery will be carried out by SES (same organisation that recovered most of the victims), parts will be transported to a safe location outside rebel area and transported to the Netherlands to a location in the south. Originally, the reconstruction was supposed to take place in Kharkov, but with Russian soldiers reportedly massing around that border, a different location is understandable.

The stories also indicate that dutch DSB investigators are on the crash site or at least have visited the site, to arrange the recovery of the wreckage.

The interview with the chairman is here:
Wie gaat het MH17-wrak bergen? En 6 andere vragen | RTL Nieuws

Also human remains were recovered in the last few days, and will be flown to Eindhoven on saturday. It seems that the relative rest on the crash site leads to some major leaps forward in the investigation. The dutch investigators are protected by the rebels.

Onderzoekers MH17 beveiligd door rebellen | Rampvlucht MH17 | de Volkskrant
Andrej Poergin, vice premier of the rebels, also states that recovery of the wreckage can only start in 1 - 2 weeks.

The volkskrant also interviewed the rebel leader Aleksandr Chodakovski, who previous claimed that the rebels didn't have a working BUk system, but that he heard stories about a buk systems being used by the rebels in the area and hinted Russian involvement(in short, I do this on memory). I believe this was an interview with Reuters.
But in this interview he declares that the rebels did have operational BUK-systems, but that none of the commanders fired the missile that brought down MH17. He says he was wrongly cited by Reuters.
Not on internet, but in the paper variant of his interview he also claimed that Russian soldiers didn't fight in Ukraine, but had no comment if Russian troops were in Ukraine. And that only a political solution would end the war.

Contrary to his words, the tension seems to rise in Ukraine again, with Russian close to the border all up to Kharkov, unmarked trucks in Donetsk and Rebels and Ukraine government blaming each other for ruining the truce. Let's hope nobody starts an offensive in the next 2 -3 weeks.

'Wij hadden raket, maar haalden MH17 niet neer' | Rampvlucht MH17 | de Volkskrant
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Old 8th Nov 2014, 06:21
  #1424 (permalink)  
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A lot of new pictures

https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/
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Old 10th Nov 2014, 14:19
  #1425 (permalink)  
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Oh dear...
There is a lot of corrosion on some of the parts by now where the shrapnell or rupture exposed bare aluminum.
So if there ever has been chemical evidence of foreign metal particles or residues of propellant or explosives, it is probably destroyed by now.
What a shame.
The cockpit section would have been a single truckload, why has it not yet been recovered ?
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Old 11th Nov 2014, 01:23
  #1426 (permalink)  
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Today the German Foreign Ministry has played down an Oct. 19 story in Der Spiegel. The story claimed the the BND (Bundesnachrichtendienst intelligence agency) has ample evidence that the pro-Russian militia captured a BUK missile from the Ukrainian army and used it to shoot down MH17. The story was based on statements by Gerhard Schindler, president of the BND, on Oct. 08, when he was holding a secret meeting with members of the parliamentary control committee.

The German Foreign Ministry said that the story's interpretation of Schindler's statements was incomplete and arbitrarily taken out of context.

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Old 12th Nov 2014, 05:19
  #1427 (permalink)  
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More new Pics.



A Page with a lot of Information

Last edited by triumph61; 12th Nov 2014 at 07:47.
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Old 12th Nov 2014, 11:47
  #1428 (permalink)  
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"The cockpit section would have been a single truckload, why has it not yet been recovered ?"
Nobody wants to know - the truth is too embarrassing
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Old 14th Nov 2014, 18:19
  #1429 (permalink)  
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The latest nonsense being presented by Russian media.

Claims of it being leaked and taken by a "US or British satellite"

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Old 14th Nov 2014, 19:26
  #1430 (permalink)  
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It is a Fake.
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Old 14th Nov 2014, 20:31
  #1431 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by TEEEJ View Post
The latest nonsense being presented by Russian media. Claims of it being leaked and taken by a "US or British satellite"
That image (7406*5000 pixels, 1.5MB) can be downloaded here (the "Скачать" button). Part of that image from website of Russian 1st TV channel:

Compare with a screenshot:

It's a (cropped) screenshot of

1. Note the 2 km ruler in the lower right corner of the screenshot. If looking from the lowest possible orbit (160 km from satellite to ground, 150 km from satellite to the plane), the plane appears 5 km long.

2. The image depicts the plane over Panteleimonivka village in Donetsk region:
MH17 flew 13 km to the north:
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Old 14th Nov 2014, 20:42
  #1432 (permalink)  
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What else could it but a lie. Nothing comes from that side of the border but mayhem and blantant lies.

If it walks like a duck, looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and denies it's a duck -- it's probably Vladimir Putin's duck
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Old 15th Nov 2014, 01:20
  #1433 (permalink)  
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Absolutely absurd. They didn't even use a picture of a 777. Its a flippin 767.

The media is doing an abysmal job of highlighting how deceitful the Russians are being about this.

Last edited by das Uber Soldat; 15th Nov 2014 at 01:55.
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Old 15th Nov 2014, 02:48
  #1434 (permalink)  
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This misinformation isn't for the western media - its for the people in Russia...
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Old 15th Nov 2014, 05:48
  #1435 (permalink)  
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Load Toad. That certainly is true. However the western world is filled with conspiracy theorists, EU-haters, anti-immigration groups, left wing and right wing nuts etc groups who grab this type of news, eat it whole and then spread it as god's gospel in every conceivable media to advance their own political agenda. For these groups RT and Putin's ah so democratic Russia provide an "Alternative" to our western ways.

There are thus a lot of people who believe this fabrication without any critique or analysis. Then again there's the Chupacabras, big foot and Santa.
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Old 15th Nov 2014, 15:56
  #1436 (permalink)  
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This amateur fake doesn't look real, smart people noticed forgery right away. The Russian engineer association and journalists either are not smart enough or intentionally endorsed a fake - no wonder. Other photos undergo the same scrutiny.
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Old 15th Nov 2014, 18:22
  #1437 (permalink)  
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smoke trail of Air-Air Missile

When you fire an Air-Air Missile from a fighter that travels at an estimated 350-400 KIAS, then there will be a smoke trail from the missile motor BEHIND the fighter.
The smoke from the motor at launch will almost instantly slow down to near Zero speed, while the fighter continues to travel forward.
In the picture the smoke trail starts in front of the MIG - clearly a fake and a mistake by someone who never fired a missile in the air.
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Old 16th Nov 2014, 08:02
  #1438 (permalink)  
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Dutch Safety Board 16 Nov 2014 Recovery wreckage MH17 started

Today the recovery of wreckage from flight MH17 has started. The Dutch Safety Board commissioned the recovery and transportation to the Netherlands of the wreckage as part of the investigation into the cause of the crash of flight MH17. As part of the investigation the Dutch Safety Board intents to reconstruct a section of the aircraft.

It is expected that the recovery operation will take several days, depending on the safetyconditions and other factors. This will be assessed daily. The recovered wreckage will be collected at a location near the crashsite, from where the wreckage will be transported to Kharkov and finally to the Netherlands. At this point the Dutch Safety Board can not give detailed information about the means of transportation and the timeschedule.
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Old 16th Nov 2014, 17:45
  #1439 (permalink)  

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I don't know why this took so long to surface, but Ukraine-watchers I know reckon it's genuine, unlike the tosh above. Apparently, someone says a body came through his roof and another person says, "A rocket took off."

Aftermath clip
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Old 16th Nov 2014, 23:22
  #1440 (permalink)  
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BBC News - MH17 flight investigators remove crucial debris

flight investigators remove crucial debris
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