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MH17 down near Donetsk

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MH17 down near Donetsk

Old 9th Oct 2014, 15:54
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Frans Timmermans has correct his statement. The person have not the Mask on the Face but "only" on his neck. No Fingerprints and DNA was found.

Timmermans betreurt uitspraak zuurstofmasker | RTL Nieuws

http://www.rtlnieuws.nl/nieuws/binne...fmasker-om-nek
http://www.themalaymailonline.com/ma...medium=twitter
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Old 9th Oct 2014, 20:24
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"Hot shrapnel penetrated the port wing fuel tanks igniting the fuel and starting at least one engine fire."

I think we have not read any reports about the plane burning when it fell down. Neither did it leave any smoke trail.
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Old 9th Oct 2014, 22:30
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Hot shrapnel penetrated the port wing fuel tanks igniting the fuel and starting at least one engine fire.
This would cause a fuel tank fire, not a fire in the engine, which would be getting less/no fuel.

There are zero reports about a precrash fire, when there were numerous witnesses. There is also no forensic evidence of a orecrash fire. Both engines landed in a burn area.

6. The left engine, hit by shrapnel reduces thrust output.
The port engine was substantially damaged by shrapnel and would have stopped functioning quite immediately. Broken fan blade sections were found at Rozspyne (the middle of the 3 debris villages). Ingesting these would stop an engne as fast as ingesting birds.

The centre section came down right way up, as indicated by the lower-edge damage to both engines before they parted from the wing. Undercarriage damage also indicates it was at the bottom on impact. The already ripped fuselage roof tore sideways, depositing passengers on the periphery on both sides. There could have been fuel leaking before impact, but would not have burned until the impact provided a spark. This would not have to leave a deep crater.
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Old 11th Oct 2014, 23:13
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https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-a...t-cannon-fire/
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Old 12th Oct 2014, 07:19
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According to mainstream information, most of Ukrainian hardware stationed in Crimea, also remained in Crimea. Along with crews. And there was quite some AA stuff, including Buk-s and S300-s..
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Old 12th Oct 2014, 15:04
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The warhead itself is known to have the same mass, diameter and length. And it should be of the same fragmentation type.
Therefore a single peace of fragmentation will not tell, from which type of mxl it was carried to it's explosion point.
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Old 12th Oct 2014, 15:58
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The idea is that the shape of fragments is different for different missiles, that's how the hacked report pointed to a missile used by Buk M1 and not any other variants.



Russian media augment this letter with Ukrainian intelligence guy saying basically the same things to a reporter on Ukrainian TV.


It all looked perfectly okay from Ukrainian POV - it was a Buk, not a fighter jet cannon that brought down Boeing - until Russians pointed out that only Ukraine has Buk M1s in the area, about 70 of them.


Another thing is that this fragment should be in custody of Dutch investigators but Ukrainians are holding onto it and keeping it secret. That is, of course, if the hacked letter and images are legitimate. So far Ukraine hasn't commented on it officially. There's no reaction from Holland or Malaysia either.
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Old 12th Oct 2014, 16:15
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Surely the guilty party denying it must know they aren't fooling anyone? Reminds me of a kid with chocolate around their face denying they have eaten the cake.
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Old 12th Oct 2014, 17:31
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Originally Posted by BATHIK
a missile used by Buk M1 and not any other variants
The 9M38M1 missile is used by both Buk-M1 and Buk M1-2. The Buk M1-2 TELARs in Russia are in fact equiped with two types of missiles - older 9M38M1 and newer 9М317 (with shorter wing chord), evidenced with multiple photos and videos.
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Old 13th Oct 2014, 05:20
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The Buk M1-2 TELARs in Russia are in fact equiped with two types of missiles
All we know from wikipedia is that it was designed to accommodate those older 9M38 missiles, not that it still uses them. They were first deployed almost 30 years ago, in 1976.


New missiles (9M317) for Russian BUK M1-2 were a significant improvement in all areas and that BUK has been deployed since 1998 - 16 years already. It's not a fact that Russia still uses older, less powerful missiles.


Anyway, these questions should be directed to the author of the hacked letter - he was the one who identified the fragment and mentioned Buk M1. He must have reasons not to include Buk M1-2 as another possibility.
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Old 13th Oct 2014, 14:33
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Um, what exactly is new in this piece of news today?
Dutch Safety Board | Investigations & Publication | Investigation crash MH17, 17 July 2014
The resolution 2166 was on July 21, Dutch Safety board began investigation on July 23.
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Old 13th Oct 2014, 18:19
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Dutch back at crash site

Four members of the Dutch investigation team went back to the crash site yesterday, under the cover of the OSCE monitoring team.
Dutch return to MH17 crash site as search resumes - Channel NewsAsia

Some stories on this will tell you there is fighting still going on nearby. This is not so. The closest fighting has been more than 80 km away for more than a week. The OSCE has been freely moving around the area for weeks and issuing daily reports, mostly of small protest groups facing off with verbal-only insults, or counterpoint commanders alleging shelling which the OSCE could find no marks of.

They are trying to recover personal belonging, the majority of which has been collected and stored by the locals. They may also look for a few damaged sections to take back, if they've identified ones of interest from the photos.
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Old 13th Oct 2014, 18:25
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BATHIK
Another thing is that this fragment should be in custody of Dutch investigators but Ukrainians are holding onto it and keeping it secret. That is, of course, if the hacked letter and images are legitimate. So far Ukraine hasn't commented on it officially. There's no reaction from Holland or Malaysia either.

1. There is no proof the hacked report is not a fake.
2. There is no link between the report and the MH17 disaster other than the date.
3. The most important. The report clearly states that the Ukrainian investigators dealt with photographs, not the actual fragment.
4. There is no problem with Dutch authorities to forward the fragment to Ukrainian investigators if all paperwork is done accordingly. They may not inform media about their every step.
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Old 14th Oct 2014, 12:21
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Without invoking any conspiracy theories, finding one body that was wearing an oxygen mask doesn't necessarily mean much. We know the wreckage was "messed with" in the days before any independent investigating personnel made it there. Finding a body with an oxygen mask on does not prove unequivocally that this person actually put it on himself shortly after the plane was hit.
It is actually much more surprising that so far just one passenger was found with an oxygen mask. If some of the challenger astronouts were still able to activate their emergency oxygen supply, why shouldn´t a certain percentage of passengers? After all they had almost 2 minutes time...

The lack of a substantial crater means that most of the fuel was burnt before impact.
Luckily all that is captured on video, so one thing we for sure know exactly is that the plane was not trailing a faint of smoke, and exploded upon impact in an impressive fireball. Crater or not, this is one of the rare real evidence we have so far.
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Old 15th Oct 2014, 12:34
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Fresh footage from crash site

A long (50 mins) video of the main crash site, showing everything from all angles, from 42 mins mark displaying and talking about shrapnel damage
(sorry, all Russian, no subtitles, only this little section has audio anyway, and obvious what they're pointing at).

What stands out is how much the site has been cleaned up. There are a few craters visible (and some deep tracks which were not made by the plane). The engines are now visible with no other debris around them -- they are much more damaged than they seemed in earlier images.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rt-QIsgjQkg
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Old 15th Oct 2014, 21:14
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More fresh footage and from first hour

fresh footage taken a few days before the Dutch went back, with someone who was there within an hour of it happening. Interspersed with never-before-seen footage that he took at the time.. English sub titles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5j5Bpa010Q
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Old 15th Oct 2014, 23:36
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A very interesting video
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Old 16th Oct 2014, 07:53
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The SA-3 Story..
Awacs has lost the Radarkontact to MH17 at 14.52CEST. The Accident happend about 28 Minutes later. So the MH17 was at 14.52 ~450km away from the Accident Point in the Area Tscherkassy. Tscherkassy Distance to Poland/Romania is about 500km. And thats the Radar Range of the Awacs. So Awacs can´t detect Radar Signals at the Area of Donetsk.
dip21.bundestag.de/dip21/btd/18/025/1802521.pdf
MH17 - Malaysia Airlines - Flight history - Flightradar24
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Old 16th Oct 2014, 09:05
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>fresh footage taken a few days before the Dutch went back...

My ears (+eyes) hurt of all that propaganda.
Someone should do clean video with as pure material as possible, from the clips we have from the day of the crash, before the site was looted and parts taken away with a crane & lorry.
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Old 16th Oct 2014, 11:56
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sotilaspassi

I see a lot of comments from people who have never been involved in an investigation of a plane crash. In order to check for important clues, dead bodies etc. sometimes you have to lift some parts. Due to the fact that these parts are made from heavy materials, there is no other possibility then to use suitable heavy equipment to lift and/or shift the parts. So, seeing heavy equipment on a crash site doesn't mean that everything is loaded on lorries.
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