MH17 down near Donetsk
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: 2.8 miles from NUNYA
Age: 71
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This type of system has no ability to discriminate between civilian aircraft or military aircraft. It simply targets based on a radar contact that is designated as a target. When the FIRE button is pushed, it goes after the target that is locked. IFF and transponders do not enter into the picture other than determining what the target is.

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 108
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by papaquebec
The only common-sense recipient of the FDR and CVR should, in this instance, be Boeing, the manufacturer.
After the debacle of the Malaysian loss earlier this year MH themselves cannot be trusted to disseminate the truth.
The Russians and Ukrainians (both sides) have axes to grind.
After the debacle of the Malaysian loss earlier this year MH themselves cannot be trusted to disseminate the truth.
The Russians and Ukrainians (both sides) have axes to grind.
Last edited by tu144; 17th Jul 2014 at 23:41.

Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: California
Posts: 154
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't see why not. Snow Drift does not communicate with SA-11 directly, it sends reports to the command post which can manually assign targets to TELARs. They are fully self-sufficient and capable of autonomous operation.

Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Derbyshire, England.
Posts: 4,087
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There is separate 'War Cover' underwritten by what is locally known as the 'War Market', quite possibly increased premiums for aircraft choosing to overfly that route - all cover almost certainly suspended for over flights now.

Aviator Extraordinaire
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma USA
Age: 76
Posts: 2,394
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ye and like the U.S. which is where Boeing is located doesn't


Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,895
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A black box isn't going to be of as much use as access to the crash site. Bits of missile warhead buried in the skin panels are the smoking gun, and should clarify which missile hit it.

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: USofA
Posts: 1,235
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I doubt that the black boxes have much value in what caused this accident. I suspect we will know who and where this was launched from within the next 72 hours. The big question is are what we going to do about it to make sure it does not happen again?

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Perth Western Australia
Age: 56
Posts: 808
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Its actually making sure there's no incriminating evidence.
Could one of the major players have deliberately done this, yes, is it likely, NO! To much potential blow back if it ever came out who was behind this.
Could one of the major players have accidentally done this, yes, is it likely, yes! Even well trained armed forces have done it.
So the question is what system was it, and what level of training and support was actually needed to operate the system. There is no doubt Russia has advisors in the area, and others actually running things, the question is, did they have them helping out with that particular system.
It is no secret that the rebels have been pushed back lately, and as a result material support increasing to them. The simple fact is, nobody on the Rebel or Russian side (the players) will give a sh!t about a couple of hundred people, its war.
What they will give a sh!t about, is the PR and potential fallout.
Could one of the major players have deliberately done this, yes, is it likely, NO! To much potential blow back if it ever came out who was behind this.
Could one of the major players have accidentally done this, yes, is it likely, yes! Even well trained armed forces have done it.
So the question is what system was it, and what level of training and support was actually needed to operate the system. There is no doubt Russia has advisors in the area, and others actually running things, the question is, did they have them helping out with that particular system.
It is no secret that the rebels have been pushed back lately, and as a result material support increasing to them. The simple fact is, nobody on the Rebel or Russian side (the players) will give a sh!t about a couple of hundred people, its war.
What they will give a sh!t about, is the PR and potential fallout.

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Pearse's Domain
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Unconfirmed but read this :
UK Foreign and Commonwealth Office issues strong travel warning
Thu, 17 Jul 2014 23:21 +0000 GMT
The UK Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) advise against all travel to: Crimea, Donetsk oblast (region), Lugansk oblast (region) read more
Latest: Malaysia Airlines press conferences in Kuala Lumpur and Amsterdam
Thu, 17 Jul 2014 22:45 +0000 GMT
Many European tourists on their way to vacation in Malaysia and other East Asian countries were on the passenger list of MH 17. read more
Airbus sets new record at Farnborough
Thu, 17 Jul 2014 21:48 +0000 GMT
During the 2014 Farnborough Air Show, Airbus won US$75.3 billion worth of business for a total of 496 aircraft, making it by far the largest Farnborough show for Airbus – both in terms of dollar val...
Colombian tourism enjoying strong growth following surge in UK visitors
Thu, 17 Jul 2014 21:21 +0000 GMT
A significant rise in airlift from the UK is set to combine with a surge in hotel development to further fuel the dramatic rise in UK visitor numbers seen in recent years, according to the Colombian...
Russia's Transaero Airlines commits to 20 A330s
Thu, 17 Jul 2014 21:20 +0000 GMT
Transaero Airlines, Russia’s second largest airline, signed a Letter of Intent with Airbus for 20 A330 aircraft (8 A330ceo and 12 A330neo). read more
KLM : Statement Malaysia Airlines MH17
Thu, 17 Jul 2014 21:20 +0000 GMT
KLM (Royal Dutch Airlines) issued the following statement on Thursday evening: read more
UKRAINIAN MILLITARY ESCORTED B777 UNTIL 3 MINUTES BEFORE DISAPPEARING
Ukraine air traffic controller suggests Kiev military shot down passenger plane
Jul 17, 2014
ETN received information from an air traffic controller in Kiev on Malaysia Airlines flight MH17.
This Kiev air traffic controller is a citizen of Spain and was working in the Ukraine. He was taken off duty as a civil air-traffic controller along with other foreigners immediately after a Malaysia Airlines passenger aircraft was shot down over the Eastern Ukraine killing 295 passengers and crew on board.
The air traffic controller suggested in a private evaluation and basing it on military sources in Kiev, that the Ukrainian military was behind this shoot down. Radar records were immediately confiscated after it became clear a passenger jet was shot down.
Military air traffic controllers in internal communication acknowledged the military was involved, and some military chatter said they did not know where the order to shoot down the plane originated from.
Obviously it happened after a series of errors, since the very same plane was escorted by two Ukrainian fighter jets until 3 minutes before it disappeared from radar.
Radar screen shots also show an unexplained change of course of the Malaysian Boeing. The change of course took the aircraft directly over the Eastern Ukraine conflict region.
Some tweets received suggest this may have been a secret military uprising against the current Ukrainian president under the direction of formerly-jailed Prime Minister Timoshenko.
According to other rumors, the black box for this crashed Malaysian Airlines flight was taken by Donetsk separatists. A spokesperson for the rebel group said this black box would be sent to the Interstate Aviation Committee headquartered in Moscow.
The First Deputy Prime Minister of the self-proclaimed People's Republic of Donetsk, Andrew Purgin, stated that the flight recorders of the crashed aircraft will be transferred to Moscow for examination.
Sources say the Rebel group leadership hopes this would confirm the Ukrainian military actually shot down this aircraft. This was reported by the news agency Interfax-Ukraine.
ETN statement: The information in this article is independently confirmed and based on the statement of one airline controller and other tweets received.
UK Foreign and Commonwealth Office issues strong travel warning
Thu, 17 Jul 2014 23:21 +0000 GMT
The UK Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) advise against all travel to: Crimea, Donetsk oblast (region), Lugansk oblast (region) read more
Latest: Malaysia Airlines press conferences in Kuala Lumpur and Amsterdam
Thu, 17 Jul 2014 22:45 +0000 GMT
Many European tourists on their way to vacation in Malaysia and other East Asian countries were on the passenger list of MH 17. read more
Airbus sets new record at Farnborough
Thu, 17 Jul 2014 21:48 +0000 GMT
During the 2014 Farnborough Air Show, Airbus won US$75.3 billion worth of business for a total of 496 aircraft, making it by far the largest Farnborough show for Airbus – both in terms of dollar val...
Colombian tourism enjoying strong growth following surge in UK visitors
Thu, 17 Jul 2014 21:21 +0000 GMT
A significant rise in airlift from the UK is set to combine with a surge in hotel development to further fuel the dramatic rise in UK visitor numbers seen in recent years, according to the Colombian...
Russia's Transaero Airlines commits to 20 A330s
Thu, 17 Jul 2014 21:20 +0000 GMT
Transaero Airlines, Russia’s second largest airline, signed a Letter of Intent with Airbus for 20 A330 aircraft (8 A330ceo and 12 A330neo). read more
KLM : Statement Malaysia Airlines MH17
Thu, 17 Jul 2014 21:20 +0000 GMT
KLM (Royal Dutch Airlines) issued the following statement on Thursday evening: read more
UKRAINIAN MILLITARY ESCORTED B777 UNTIL 3 MINUTES BEFORE DISAPPEARING
Ukraine air traffic controller suggests Kiev military shot down passenger plane
Jul 17, 2014
ETN received information from an air traffic controller in Kiev on Malaysia Airlines flight MH17.
This Kiev air traffic controller is a citizen of Spain and was working in the Ukraine. He was taken off duty as a civil air-traffic controller along with other foreigners immediately after a Malaysia Airlines passenger aircraft was shot down over the Eastern Ukraine killing 295 passengers and crew on board.
The air traffic controller suggested in a private evaluation and basing it on military sources in Kiev, that the Ukrainian military was behind this shoot down. Radar records were immediately confiscated after it became clear a passenger jet was shot down.
Military air traffic controllers in internal communication acknowledged the military was involved, and some military chatter said they did not know where the order to shoot down the plane originated from.
Obviously it happened after a series of errors, since the very same plane was escorted by two Ukrainian fighter jets until 3 minutes before it disappeared from radar.
Radar screen shots also show an unexplained change of course of the Malaysian Boeing. The change of course took the aircraft directly over the Eastern Ukraine conflict region.
Some tweets received suggest this may have been a secret military uprising against the current Ukrainian president under the direction of formerly-jailed Prime Minister Timoshenko.
According to other rumors, the black box for this crashed Malaysian Airlines flight was taken by Donetsk separatists. A spokesperson for the rebel group said this black box would be sent to the Interstate Aviation Committee headquartered in Moscow.
The First Deputy Prime Minister of the self-proclaimed People's Republic of Donetsk, Andrew Purgin, stated that the flight recorders of the crashed aircraft will be transferred to Moscow for examination.
Sources say the Rebel group leadership hopes this would confirm the Ukrainian military actually shot down this aircraft. This was reported by the news agency Interfax-Ukraine.
ETN statement: The information in this article is independently confirmed and based on the statement of one airline controller and other tweets received.

Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: us
Posts: 694
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
con pilot, the U. S. military spy satellite tracked the plane and the ascent phase of the missile, but not the launch. But then again, the U. S. typically doesn't reveal all of a satellite's capabilities.


Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: San Jose, CA
Age: 47
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by taufupok
KLM (Royal Dutch Airlines) issued the following statement on Thursday evening: read more
UKRAINIAN MILLITARY ESCORTED B777 UNTIL 3 MINUTES BEFORE DISAPPEARING
Ukraine air traffic controller suggests Kiev military shot down passenger plane
UKRAINIAN MILLITARY ESCORTED B777 UNTIL 3 MINUTES BEFORE DISAPPEARING
Ukraine air traffic controller suggests Kiev military shot down passenger plane

Aviator Extraordinaire
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma USA
Age: 76
Posts: 2,394
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
con pilot, the U. S. military spy satellite tracked the plane and the ascent phase of the missile, but not the launch. But then again, the U. S. typically doesn't reveal all of a satellite's capabilities.

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: On the chopping board.
Posts: 923
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Of all the places the "black boxes" should be sent to, Moscow is sure the hell not one of them. There is no logical, aviation reason for Moscow to have those recorders, only political.
I am sure there will be many opinions voiced loudly over this, more so than the TWA800 tragedy.

Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Germany (SLF)
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So a crash in the Ukraine (and it is still an accident at this point, since the missile is not 100% proven) would indeed be investigated by Moscow.

Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Paso Robles
Posts: 261
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It says all the planes are flying around the armed conflict area why did this one (MH17) fly over it

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: MDH
Age: 32
Posts: 165
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To add a bit of perspective.
Has anybody considered the possibility a missile was NOT involved in the downing of this jet...?!
MH370 springs to mind. This time with a little bit of evidence to play with.
Has anybody considered the possibility a missile was NOT involved in the downing of this jet...?!
MH370 springs to mind. This time with a little bit of evidence to play with.
