Gulf Air: Qatar/Oman refuse new funds & New CEO
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Let's end this one then once and for all!
FCO opened in October 1993 and closed earlier this year.
During that time GF operated B767, A330 and A320 on that route's scheduled services ex the Gulf.
It is also possible that an A340 has dropped in as well ex LHR during times of disruption.
So in fact FCO had seen all aircraft types that GF has in its fleet over the last several years.
PS: heard a rumour today that Oman are now prepared to front up. They need the GF business at MCT otherwise the BAA (who recently acquired (wheres my dictionary!) the airport in partnership for development) may pull out!
FCO opened in October 1993 and closed earlier this year.
During that time GF operated B767, A330 and A320 on that route's scheduled services ex the Gulf.
It is also possible that an A340 has dropped in as well ex LHR during times of disruption.
So in fact FCO had seen all aircraft types that GF has in its fleet over the last several years.
PS: heard a rumour today that Oman are now prepared to front up. They need the GF business at MCT otherwise the BAA (who recently acquired (wheres my dictionary!) the airport in partnership for development) may pull out!
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ICARUS..... A GF340 New York to Bahrain passenger flight did land at FCO.
Rumour was insufficient fuel loaded at New York,and this fuel load error was caused by the Bahrain ops computer defaulting to min zero fuel weight.
This min Zfw weight was then requested from the Computer generated flight plan machine in the USA.
i.e. The actual zero fuel weight was much higher.
The same Bahrain ops computer error,(default to min zero fuel weight) also occured that day on a Gf/ Dhl 757 freighter flight Bah/Bru, however the F/o on that flight noticed the error and the fuel load was ajusted prior to take off.
The Bah computer defaulted to min zero fuel if the Bahrain ops staff were required to do another task on the computer and then return to their original flight plan request to the USA.
The problem was fixed by causeing the computer to default to Max zero fuel weight.
Thought this may interest you and take your mind off the Australians BD38,000.00 per month salery and his indemnity.
Rumour was insufficient fuel loaded at New York,and this fuel load error was caused by the Bahrain ops computer defaulting to min zero fuel weight.
This min Zfw weight was then requested from the Computer generated flight plan machine in the USA.
i.e. The actual zero fuel weight was much higher.
The same Bahrain ops computer error,(default to min zero fuel weight) also occured that day on a Gf/ Dhl 757 freighter flight Bah/Bru, however the F/o on that flight noticed the error and the fuel load was ajusted prior to take off.
The Bah computer defaulted to min zero fuel if the Bahrain ops staff were required to do another task on the computer and then return to their original flight plan request to the USA.
The problem was fixed by causeing the computer to default to Max zero fuel weight.
Thought this may interest you and take your mind off the Australians BD38,000.00 per month salery and his indemnity.
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Yes quite right - a 340 lobbed into FCO because the capt. simply didn't put enough petrol in the thing to fly from JFK-BAH, and yes it was the ZFW that was out by a long way and yes it was the fact that the capt ignored all input from the 2 F/Os and told them to wind their necks in. Can't actually remeber if he got into any hot water but knowing GF they probably tried to fire the FSS - remember the 767 going stealth.
Yes quite right - a 340 lobbed into FCO because the capt. simply didn't put enough petrol in the thing to fly from JFK-BAH, and yes it was the ZFW that was out by a long way and yes it was the fact that the capt ignored all input from the 2 F/Os and told them to wind their necks in. Can't actually remeber if he got into any hot water but knowing GF they probably tried to fire the FSS - remember the 767 going stealth.
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Readers of the Bahrain Tribune may have already seen this...but I take the GDN so didn't.
Letters to the Editor - 19 May 2002.
Sir,
He started his career in the Ministry of Finance and National Economy and worked himself up to become the Undersecretary for Civil Aviation Affairs within Bahrain’s Ministry of Transportation. In December 2000, Ibrahim Abdulla Al Hamer was appointed President and Chief Executive of Gulf Air by the Board of Directors.
Ibrahim Al Hamer had all the necessary elements that would enable him to run such a company and succeed at it. Not only was he a leader, but he also had the skills, the knowledge, and the expertise to run an airline company. Bahrain’s Rulers highly recommended him to the Gulf Air Board, based on the significant role he played in improving Bahrain’s International Airport and making it one of the best in the region. He was also a part of Gulf Air long before he became its CEP and therefore was the most appropriate for the position.
He realised he will be encountering many obstacles in improving the company and understood that overcoming them will require a lot of time, effort, patience and control. Becoming Gulf Air’s CEP was the greatest challenge he faced and he was looking forward to it. ‘Quitting’ and ‘failing’ were not words he believed in, and neither were ‘dishonesty’ and ‘recklessness.’ He was ready to enter this difficult battle and lead it to its victory.
His first step was to enforce his ‘Winning Together’ objective among those in the company that are under his umbrella. This is not a one-man battle and the Gulf Air staff needed to understand that if the company was to succeed. He therefore worked on developing a corporate culture that strongly emphasised on teamwork, reliability, pride in performance, and finally, recognition and reward for productivity. He held many meetings with the employees to better understand their issues and gave everyone the opportunity not only to listen, but to act as well. Hence, he was able to spread a sense of composure among the employees as they realised they were being led by a respectable, sincere, and an honest hard-working man.
With that new objective, Ibrahim Al Hamer, along with every single employee in Gulf Air, worked hard to regain the company’s position among other airline carriers. They were headed towards a stable future, which, given time and further efforts, will result in the ultimate success they were all seeking. Once more, this was not an easy task for the CEP and there were many complications that kept him from completely achieving this goal in the short amount of time he was appointed to that position. First of all, Gulf Air was in debt and barely surviving when he first joined the company. Second of all, attempts at satisfying the needs of the four managing Gulf countries, each with its own requirements and preferences, complicated his task. Moreover, before he was able to make any further progress, he first had to deal with the never-ending issues that accumulated over the past. The final complication rose when some partner countries proposed developing a new system/structure for Gulf Air, led by foreign management, instead of him. Nevertheless, Ibrahim Al Hamer faced these agonising obstacles and continued fighting these battles, with whatever sparse support he got, giving it all his potency and effort.
Sixteen months later, the board responds to his continuous efforts by replacing him. They no longer had the understandable patience required to see the results of Ibrahim Al Hamer’s management. They did not recognise the crucial successes he has thus achieved in such a short, demanding time period. They did not appreciate the efforts he made to help improve this company. Instead, they deprived him of his right to achieve his objectives in a company he had known and been a part of for years, among people he had recently worked closely with. Is replacing him with someone who does not have as much knowledge about the company or the region really a better system/structure for Gulf Air? Why was such a decision made now, after years of abuse and millions in debt? Why was a qualified, Bahraini man denied the right to serve the entire five-year period?
Ibrahim Abdulla Al Hamer is our father and we are proud to be his children. We have decided to write this letter to let you know what an honest, hard-working man he is, one with great values and morals. We truly believe that had he been given the full five years he was originally allotted to act as CEP of Gulf Air, he would have been able to help the company surpass its previous level of achievement, without the need for a replacement. Since his time, energy, and efforts have gone unappreciated, we took it upon ourselves to express the unfairness of this situation, in which our father was given privileges as CEP that he was not able to entirely use, but which others before him have somewhat abused. Had he been given more time, he would have achieved what other Gulf Air CEPs have not achieved.
We sincerely hope this letter helped clarify any doubts you might have had regarding the replacement of our father.
Mai, Noor, Abdulla and Mohammed Al Hamer
Letters to the Editor - 19 May 2002.
Sir,
He started his career in the Ministry of Finance and National Economy and worked himself up to become the Undersecretary for Civil Aviation Affairs within Bahrain’s Ministry of Transportation. In December 2000, Ibrahim Abdulla Al Hamer was appointed President and Chief Executive of Gulf Air by the Board of Directors.
Ibrahim Al Hamer had all the necessary elements that would enable him to run such a company and succeed at it. Not only was he a leader, but he also had the skills, the knowledge, and the expertise to run an airline company. Bahrain’s Rulers highly recommended him to the Gulf Air Board, based on the significant role he played in improving Bahrain’s International Airport and making it one of the best in the region. He was also a part of Gulf Air long before he became its CEP and therefore was the most appropriate for the position.
He realised he will be encountering many obstacles in improving the company and understood that overcoming them will require a lot of time, effort, patience and control. Becoming Gulf Air’s CEP was the greatest challenge he faced and he was looking forward to it. ‘Quitting’ and ‘failing’ were not words he believed in, and neither were ‘dishonesty’ and ‘recklessness.’ He was ready to enter this difficult battle and lead it to its victory.
His first step was to enforce his ‘Winning Together’ objective among those in the company that are under his umbrella. This is not a one-man battle and the Gulf Air staff needed to understand that if the company was to succeed. He therefore worked on developing a corporate culture that strongly emphasised on teamwork, reliability, pride in performance, and finally, recognition and reward for productivity. He held many meetings with the employees to better understand their issues and gave everyone the opportunity not only to listen, but to act as well. Hence, he was able to spread a sense of composure among the employees as they realised they were being led by a respectable, sincere, and an honest hard-working man.
With that new objective, Ibrahim Al Hamer, along with every single employee in Gulf Air, worked hard to regain the company’s position among other airline carriers. They were headed towards a stable future, which, given time and further efforts, will result in the ultimate success they were all seeking. Once more, this was not an easy task for the CEP and there were many complications that kept him from completely achieving this goal in the short amount of time he was appointed to that position. First of all, Gulf Air was in debt and barely surviving when he first joined the company. Second of all, attempts at satisfying the needs of the four managing Gulf countries, each with its own requirements and preferences, complicated his task. Moreover, before he was able to make any further progress, he first had to deal with the never-ending issues that accumulated over the past. The final complication rose when some partner countries proposed developing a new system/structure for Gulf Air, led by foreign management, instead of him. Nevertheless, Ibrahim Al Hamer faced these agonising obstacles and continued fighting these battles, with whatever sparse support he got, giving it all his potency and effort.
Sixteen months later, the board responds to his continuous efforts by replacing him. They no longer had the understandable patience required to see the results of Ibrahim Al Hamer’s management. They did not recognise the crucial successes he has thus achieved in such a short, demanding time period. They did not appreciate the efforts he made to help improve this company. Instead, they deprived him of his right to achieve his objectives in a company he had known and been a part of for years, among people he had recently worked closely with. Is replacing him with someone who does not have as much knowledge about the company or the region really a better system/structure for Gulf Air? Why was such a decision made now, after years of abuse and millions in debt? Why was a qualified, Bahraini man denied the right to serve the entire five-year period?
Ibrahim Abdulla Al Hamer is our father and we are proud to be his children. We have decided to write this letter to let you know what an honest, hard-working man he is, one with great values and morals. We truly believe that had he been given the full five years he was originally allotted to act as CEP of Gulf Air, he would have been able to help the company surpass its previous level of achievement, without the need for a replacement. Since his time, energy, and efforts have gone unappreciated, we took it upon ourselves to express the unfairness of this situation, in which our father was given privileges as CEP that he was not able to entirely use, but which others before him have somewhat abused. Had he been given more time, he would have achieved what other Gulf Air CEPs have not achieved.
We sincerely hope this letter helped clarify any doubts you might have had regarding the replacement of our father.
Mai, Noor, Abdulla and Mohammed Al Hamer
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Brings tears to your eyes!
What about the appointment of an Assistant Airport manager in CAI just because the guy brown-noses him every time he flies in. GF have never has assistant airport managers not needed them. Circumvents all Personnel policies and needs of the user department, causes upset with other staff in CAI. Nice one!
This weeks after being told of 'transparency, honesty etc etc'.
Brings in his mates for comfort. And then they bring in theirs for the same reason. Favour after favour, disappointment after disappointment.
They talk the world and deliver nothing in 15 months, biggest disappointment in years GF!
What is more disappointing is that they are still here!
What GF needs is a hard nose b**tard at the top now, one who can make the tough decisions required now, today.
Someone who can tell his best mate "Sorry John, you've let me down it's time for you to go" instead of running away from it and let the crisis worsen. Someone who can recognise who is working and who is not; someone who can see who is competent and who is full of hot air.
It's time to crack the whip, or turn out the lights, nothing in between; but when you crack it Mr Hogan, make sure you direct it at the right people.
Too many looking after their own butt and blaming those below when they were never even given a chance to manage effectively in the first place!
VP's allowing incompetents to be promoted against the will of the department just because they are family or close to it.
Managers being dictated to in manners that limit their ability to manage. They know it wont work and so do you, obviously you dont care enough and of course, they can't answer you back.
How many times do we hear "Challenge me, Challenge me!" but when we do you all run away and hide, ignore us, forget us, watch over our failures and take no responsibility for it. Is that what being a VP is all about? Well I hope I never get to be a VP, I couldn't sleep at night!
Get to the core and quick.
Mr Al Hamer was a nice guy, still is and probably will be for the rest of his life, under other circumstances, yes, perhaps he would be the right man for the job.
But circumstances dictacted something far from what Mr Al Hamer could offer.
What GF needs is another Lord King!
It's going to be 'another long night'!
It needs to be 'another long night'!
What about the appointment of an Assistant Airport manager in CAI just because the guy brown-noses him every time he flies in. GF have never has assistant airport managers not needed them. Circumvents all Personnel policies and needs of the user department, causes upset with other staff in CAI. Nice one!
This weeks after being told of 'transparency, honesty etc etc'.
Brings in his mates for comfort. And then they bring in theirs for the same reason. Favour after favour, disappointment after disappointment.
They talk the world and deliver nothing in 15 months, biggest disappointment in years GF!
What is more disappointing is that they are still here!
What GF needs is a hard nose b**tard at the top now, one who can make the tough decisions required now, today.
Someone who can tell his best mate "Sorry John, you've let me down it's time for you to go" instead of running away from it and let the crisis worsen. Someone who can recognise who is working and who is not; someone who can see who is competent and who is full of hot air.
It's time to crack the whip, or turn out the lights, nothing in between; but when you crack it Mr Hogan, make sure you direct it at the right people.
Too many looking after their own butt and blaming those below when they were never even given a chance to manage effectively in the first place!
VP's allowing incompetents to be promoted against the will of the department just because they are family or close to it.
Managers being dictated to in manners that limit their ability to manage. They know it wont work and so do you, obviously you dont care enough and of course, they can't answer you back.
How many times do we hear "Challenge me, Challenge me!" but when we do you all run away and hide, ignore us, forget us, watch over our failures and take no responsibility for it. Is that what being a VP is all about? Well I hope I never get to be a VP, I couldn't sleep at night!
Get to the core and quick.
Mr Al Hamer was a nice guy, still is and probably will be for the rest of his life, under other circumstances, yes, perhaps he would be the right man for the job.
But circumstances dictacted something far from what Mr Al Hamer could offer.
What GF needs is another Lord King!
It's going to be 'another long night'!
It needs to be 'another long night'!
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Rumour was....Lord King was asked by a Lhr BA engineer (who earned less than £20,000 a year before tax) if he considered his telephone number salery and share option package was justified compared to his?
Lord King answered, "I believe in paying what a person is worth!"
The following evening a BA747 with a full load and a problem engine was not signed off by the BA dispatching engineer.
Someone suggested maybe Lord King could sign instead.
It was then pointed out Lord King was not qualified to sign.
Hopefully the new chief at GF will have a kinder and more diplomatic answer ready for the "little people" that actually move the aircraft if asked about improveing their low salery.
Lord King answered, "I believe in paying what a person is worth!"
The following evening a BA747 with a full load and a problem engine was not signed off by the BA dispatching engineer.
Someone suggested maybe Lord King could sign instead.
It was then pointed out Lord King was not qualified to sign.
Hopefully the new chief at GF will have a kinder and more diplomatic answer ready for the "little people" that actually move the aircraft if asked about improveing their low salery.
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BahrainLad thanks for the post from the GDN, I had missed that issue and was much amused. First of all let me say this, if Mr Al Hammers children wrote that then maybe we needed them as a PCE and not their father because as I recall he never wrote a letter, he brought his mate Neil to do that for him. Nice piece Niel, thanks really enjoyed it.
Icarus your comments were spot on mate and thank God we do still have a few people in management that feel something for this Airline of ours.
Mr Hogan I hope you brought a big stick with you because sure as hell you will need it.
Icarus your comments were spot on mate and thank God we do still have a few people in management that feel something for this Airline of ours.
Mr Hogan I hope you brought a big stick with you because sure as hell you will need it.
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If things have not changed in 15 months, is there any hope that things will if the useless people Al-Hamer brought in stay with GF? Will SH&E or Mr. Hogan have the courage to tell them to shape up or ship out?
Last edited by PPRuNe Towers; 21st May 2002 at 13:58.
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You aught to have heard the huge sigh of relief that went up over Al Ahli Mall when AA left BA 
Very difficult to sack a Bahrain :o
Mind you he still has that million dollars he won in a raffle to fall back on
Very difficult to sack a Bahrain :o
Mind you he still has that million dollars he won in a raffle to fall back on
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I know that SH&E firmly believe that 'nothing' will happen to change the plans that have been put together so far. Perhaps some fine-tuning but nothing more than that as far as the operational future of the airline is concerned.
As for the management and administration, who know, only a handful on the 3rd floor and no-one else at the moment. Maybe another week or so before anyone picks up the 'wind of change'.
Lets hope it's a damn good hurricance rather than a gentle breeze!
As for the management and administration, who know, only a handful on the 3rd floor and no-one else at the moment. Maybe another week or so before anyone picks up the 'wind of change'.
Lets hope it's a damn good hurricance rather than a gentle breeze!
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The mood over there at GF (with some of the people who have dealt directly with SH&E) seems to be that of dissapointment. SH&E does not seem to have a good grip about the main GF markets or scheduling an airline to begin with. They have their own data and forecasting models which they are refusing to share with GF and conflict with GF's own internal profitability/forecasting models (the ones obtained from Sabre). All the people get is 'Just do it like we told you to' without giving them any reasons as to why. So, mostly, people are hoping that SH&E will eventually hang themselves with all the mistakes they are making.
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Well if SH&E hang themselves then they will hang us as well.
I laugh at your comments about scheduling and profit forecast models, sorry. GF has no clue about scheduling, it is and always has been a joke! A bad joke at that!
As for p/l models, as you imply, they are built for a market that isn't ours. Being in bed with that particular suppliers products is also one of our main problems too.
SH&E are doing a damn good job, so far, it's now up to everyone to understand that we MUST implement this program of changes to the way we operate in order to survive in the short term and to profit once again in the medium-long term. The sooner people give up what they used to do and think (or just plain ****** off) the better.
I hope Capt Pprune can keep this is the archives for 12-18 months so I can come back and say "I told you so!'. If I can't because we failed, then that will be the fault (predominantly) of those named above (if they are still here) and a few more 'un-cooperatives' and 'ignoramases'.
I laugh at your comments about scheduling and profit forecast models, sorry. GF has no clue about scheduling, it is and always has been a joke! A bad joke at that!
As for p/l models, as you imply, they are built for a market that isn't ours. Being in bed with that particular suppliers products is also one of our main problems too.
SH&E are doing a damn good job, so far, it's now up to everyone to understand that we MUST implement this program of changes to the way we operate in order to survive in the short term and to profit once again in the medium-long term. The sooner people give up what they used to do and think (or just plain ****** off) the better.
I hope Capt Pprune can keep this is the archives for 12-18 months so I can come back and say "I told you so!'. If I can't because we failed, then that will be the fault (predominantly) of those named above (if they are still here) and a few more 'un-cooperatives' and 'ignoramases'.
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If there is anyone ignorant about the schedules and models, it must be you. All you do is blame the schedules and nothing else, while we all know it is much much more than that. If you are such an expert about schedules, why didn't you become a scheduler and solve GF's problems? Instead, why don't you visit the people on the third floor and sit with them for a few minutes so you can get a clear picture as to what they do, the tools they use, and all the sh** they have to deal with everyday. To say that GF's profitability models are not built for this region is crap (I never said or implied that to begin with). The models (which as I understand are used in 20 other airlines around the world) are carefully calibrated to make sure it gives accurate forecats (profits or loss) when compared to MIDT and internal GF data. You obviously know jack Icarus!! It seems to me that your lack of knowledge and closed mind is part of the problem just like all the other people you claim are causing the demise of the airline. As for keeping the topic in the archives, just save or print the webpage smarty.
Last edited by boiler; 21st May 2002 at 14:57.
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I'm going to put my money squarely with Icarus and therefore SH&E. From what I've seen of the plans, their profit forecasts are based on highly conservative figures. Their plans also add up.
In comparison, GF's are based on increasing service quality without spending any money, reconfiguring a/c with more economy seats yet attempting to raise the yield, laying off staff yet improving staff morale, laying of staff yet not having to spend money on compensation - notice a pattern? I'd say if you believe GF's own figures, get into the SH&E-supporting camp quickly!
The question is - will the Air Afrique scenario come into play? In case noone knows, SH&E succeeded in turning round the airline only for the member states (11 of them!) to demand the resumption of their Paris-member state capital services. These services had been canned by SH&E, and lo and behold, the airline went bust. Let's hope the same doesn't happen to GF - for all our sakes.
But, 29th May is the big date.
In comparison, GF's are based on increasing service quality without spending any money, reconfiguring a/c with more economy seats yet attempting to raise the yield, laying off staff yet improving staff morale, laying of staff yet not having to spend money on compensation - notice a pattern? I'd say if you believe GF's own figures, get into the SH&E-supporting camp quickly!
The question is - will the Air Afrique scenario come into play? In case noone knows, SH&E succeeded in turning round the airline only for the member states (11 of them!) to demand the resumption of their Paris-member state capital services. These services had been canned by SH&E, and lo and behold, the airline went bust. Let's hope the same doesn't happen to GF - for all our sakes.
But, 29th May is the big date.
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But what are the assumptions of SH&E? All of us have 'assumptions', but they are of no use if they are based on unrealistic or faulty data. Where did they get their data from? For example, I was told that SH&E have their own costing formula for implementing a schedule. The problem is that they did not not consult with financing to see if the rates they used are realistic (things like aircraft maintenance and leasing rates, landing rates, navigation charges, etc...). If this is true, then would you still believe in the numbers of SH&E? I would not bet on that. So one has to be careful here. You can make a presentation and put in all the numbers you like, and unfortunately, most people fall for that. But are the numbers based on accurate and trustworthy data based on realistic and achievable assumptions? That is the million dollar question.
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As long as they do not hang GF with them it is all right by me...
Anyhow, this is no good. I tought a consultancy agency is supposed to know how to handle the people in the company they work for!
Maybe it is not a bad iidea to put all these external guys through one of our so beloved CRM courses. There they will teach them some basic principles in people managment!
I believe in the Hurricane theory of Icarus.....AT SN we had the same situation during the company's existance. And the little breeze never became a Hurricane......Result: well known I guess!
GF is 50 years old, full of knowledge and experience, apparently willing people are still working there.....so please, let it live!!!
Anyhow, this is no good. I tought a consultancy agency is supposed to know how to handle the people in the company they work for!
Maybe it is not a bad iidea to put all these external guys through one of our so beloved CRM courses. There they will teach them some basic principles in people managment!
I believe in the Hurricane theory of Icarus.....AT SN we had the same situation during the company's existance. And the little breeze never became a Hurricane......Result: well known I guess!
GF is 50 years old, full of knowledge and experience, apparently willing people are still working there.....so please, let it live!!!
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I openely admit I am not a schedules expert, but I will also state that you do not have to be to see the rubbish produced over the years in GF.
The GF schedule is inadequate and horrendously expensive, terribly inefficient. This is the root cause of the losses incurred by GF. Bad scheduling and the roll on from that! Very little else has contributed in that manner, other than chasing everything in the market and excusing the behaviour by stating that we operate in volatile markets. Bull****! We create the volitility ourselves by chasing every last sales opportunity without any regard to cost of sales and other additional expenses instead of deciding exectly what market we want and sticking with it to maximum exploitation.
As for a certain American companies sofware products, HA! They would sell you their Grandmothers if they had to!
As for the product, I am fully aware of MIDT and APM calibration, I am also aware that there are far better products in the market to. Other than that I do not believe GF has 'capable' personnel to use it properly either. Perhaps you are one of them??
It sounds very much like you (Boilermaker) are one of the people involved in all of this, what's up, SH&E breathing down your neck, exposing you even? Afraid for your job now?
The GF schedule is inadequate and horrendously expensive, terribly inefficient. This is the root cause of the losses incurred by GF. Bad scheduling and the roll on from that! Very little else has contributed in that manner, other than chasing everything in the market and excusing the behaviour by stating that we operate in volatile markets. Bull****! We create the volitility ourselves by chasing every last sales opportunity without any regard to cost of sales and other additional expenses instead of deciding exectly what market we want and sticking with it to maximum exploitation.
As for a certain American companies sofware products, HA! They would sell you their Grandmothers if they had to!
As for the product, I am fully aware of MIDT and APM calibration, I am also aware that there are far better products in the market to. Other than that I do not believe GF has 'capable' personnel to use it properly either. Perhaps you are one of them??
It sounds very much like you (Boilermaker) are one of the people involved in all of this, what's up, SH&E breathing down your neck, exposing you even? Afraid for your job now?
Last edited by Icarus; 21st May 2002 at 17:56.