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Qantas A380 uncontained #2 engine failure

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Qantas A380 uncontained #2 engine failure

Old 4th Nov 2010, 18:03
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An interesting TV programme in the UK earlier this year concentrated on testing the 'containment' ability of the Trent 900 engine in the event of a major malfunction.......it seemed pretty convincing......at the time??
I saw it, too. As others have already said, it was "only" a blade off so much "easier" to contain, but to me it was still a mighty impressive demonstration of engineering none the less and the sheer energy involved.


FFWD to the four minute mark.

YouTube - A380 Blade Off Test

Last edited by The late XV105; 4th Nov 2010 at 19:09. Reason: Typo
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Old 4th Nov 2010, 18:05
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Just seen the footage regarding the number 1 engine.

Engine control experts, have you ever seen a water ingestion test for certification? You are better off with a bit of rag to throw in the intake. If the FMV fails the first thing I reach for is the lp valve p/b or fire p/b that is an aircraft system to shut off the source at the tank.

The fire truck is definitely spraying water not foam, I doubt qantas would want a double engine change!

The video is a bit grainy but that engine is below gnd idle. Got to love a bit of speculation, maybe a bit of oppertunity maintenance for a compressor wash.
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Old 4th Nov 2010, 18:07
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A380 video

Here is the link to the video of the landing shot by a PAX. Aside from the number 1 engine apparently producing thrust, it seems that only half of the spoilers deployed.

YouTube - Raw Video: Inside the Qantas Emergency Landing
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Old 4th Nov 2010, 18:08
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Cool parts problem

Clearly it is a parts problem if parts of the engine are stuck in the wing...?
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Old 4th Nov 2010, 18:16
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Was there any damage to the No1 engine from damage from the failure? Might be a reason to spray down the No1?
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Old 4th Nov 2010, 18:16
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Regarding #1 Engine continuing to run at the last commanded thrust based on loss of command, I don't believe that is the case, or at least maybe it differs for the control systems of different aircraft/engine combinations. I've experienced a CFM engine return to idle power due to loss of thrust command. The FADEC sends out a signal to an RVDT at the thrust lever in the cockpit, and the return signal (dependent on the position of thrust lever) is split into two parts which have to match each other within 2%. If they are not within 2%, signals from the channel not in command will be used, so long as they are within 2%. If the signals from both channels are out of range, then the FADEC commands the engine to idle. If the Aircraft on Ground signal is not available to the FADEC (ie the wire has been severed) then idle speed will be at flight idle rather than ground idle even when the aircraft is on the ground, for failsafe reasons.
I'll be interested to hear what the official details are...
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Old 4th Nov 2010, 18:20
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giblets.

Yes there was a reason for spraying No1, the reason for this has already been discussed at length.
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Old 4th Nov 2010, 18:20
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In the video above posted by MCOFlyer, I noticed that not all the spoilers went up after touch-down. Is that ops normal? If not, what does that tell us?
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Old 4th Nov 2010, 18:22
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giblets,
".... any damage to the No1 engine ?"
Seems not, from the reports so far, but with #1 "doing its own thing", the crew may already have advised the fire services to better be safe than sorry.

CJ
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Old 4th Nov 2010, 18:25
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Hey, rbraitz - Read: then get a clue!

Dave's Brother-get a clue
Hey Dave's bro...

don't know where you heard that, but they probably shut down a second engine on opposite side of plane for even distribution of engine power....
If you'd read what I wrote properly and looked at the link you'd have found out that I was referring tongue-in-cheek to a Sky News report in which footage of a twin-engined, single deck Airbus (or, I'll admit, possibly a Boeing) was said by the newsreader to be the four-engined, twin-deck Airbus 380 coming in to land.

Now the rest of you: hands up if you normally shut down a second engine "for even distribution of power". Nope. Thought not.
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Old 4th Nov 2010, 18:29
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If you'd read what I wrote properly and looked at the link you'd have found out that I was referring tongue-in-cheek to a Sky News report in which footage of a twin-engined, single deck Airbus (or, I'll admit, possibly a Boeing) was said by the newsreader to be the four-engined, twin-deck Airbus 380 coming in to land.

Now the rest of you: hands up if you normally shut down a second engine "for even distribution of power". Nope. Thought not.
Well, not on a twin, anyway

Even distribution of no power
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Old 4th Nov 2010, 18:31
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"not all the spoilers went up" tells us that only the Green OR Yellow hydraulic system was working, but not both.
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Old 4th Nov 2010, 18:31
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EASA AD on Trent 900

EASA AD No.: 2010-0008R1 on Trent 900:
...Wear, beyond Engine Manual limits, has been identified on the abutment
faces of the splines on the Trent 900 Intermediate Pressure (IP) shaft rigid
coupling on several engines during strip....
...Rearward movement of the IP turbine would enable contact with static
turbine components and would result in loss of engine performance with
potential for in-flight shut down, oil migration and oil fire below the LP
turbine discs prior to sufficient indication resulting in loss of LP turbine disc
integrity....
http://ad.easa.europa.eu/blob/easa_a..._2010-0008R1_2
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Old 4th Nov 2010, 18:31
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Will be interesting to see the official findings on why such a new , low hours engine failed so spectacularly.
JACDEC has the aircraft as being 2y10m old. That would give the engine in the region of 15,000 hours of operation (assuming it is the original and about 5500 hours/year).

I know that BA now with much experience) get over 20,000 hours on wing from most of their B747 RB211-524G engined fleet.

So if it is the original fit, it is not a 'new' engine and may have been approaching overhaul, given that the Trent 900 is a recent development.
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Old 4th Nov 2010, 18:35
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robertbachsch wrote
How many A380s are currently operating with these engines?
22 out of c 34 A380's delivered have Rolls-Royce engines according to an article on BBC Radio News on my way home from work this evening
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Old 4th Nov 2010, 18:36
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Actually Top Bunk, I seem to recall that QANTAS took delivery of their first A380 in Oct 2008. I was working at the Airbus plant in Hamburg at the time. The aircraft may have first flown 2 years 10 months ago but was then ferried from Toulouse to Finkenwerder for painting and cabin fit.
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Old 4th Nov 2010, 18:52
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The Qantas Airbus A380 which suffered the failure of its number two Rolls-Royce Trent 900 engine shortly after departure from Singapore's Changi Airport earlier today had so far logged around 8,165 flight hours during 831 flight cycles, says Airbus.
Qantas A380 had performed 831 flights: Airbus
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Old 4th Nov 2010, 18:57
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Extract from Jon Snow's daily Channel 4 News e-mail:

Alex here with the way things look for tonight's Channel 4 News.
A terrifying experience in all likelihood for all aboard the giant Qantas Airbus laden with over 450 passengers and crew, when one of its four engines smashed itself to pieces. Flames were seen apparently and metal debris showered from the rear of the casing as the plane made a forced landing. But, it appears the Rolls Royce engine behaved as it should in such circumstances and contained what might have been much worse.
Airline sources are busy telling the public that this is not that big a deal and these planes can fly happily enough on two engines not four. The most dangerous part of flying remains your journey to the airport by a country mile - but there are many things worth looking into here, that notwithstanding.
But as Julian Rush reports tonight there were warnings about the possibility that this very model of Rolls Royce engine could shut-down mid flight. The European aviation safety agency issued a directive about technical aspects of the engine which could present a 'potential unsafe condition to the aeroplane'. He'll have all the details on that and what happened on the Qantas flight and what is now in prospect for the global fleet of superjumbo double-decker airbuses A2330s which can take 853 passengers if fitted for economy only - quite a payload.
Read: Airbus engine failure warning weeks before Qantas scare - Channel4 News
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Old 4th Nov 2010, 19:11
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The fire truck is definitely spraying water not foam, I doubt qantas would want a double engine change!
Initially the firedepartment used foam, more precisely an AR-AFFF foam (alcohol-resistant film forming fluoroprotein), after that they switched to plain water. (Look at the pictures, the brown stuff being sprayed by the monitor on the crashtender is water mixed with 3% of AR-AFFF.

So that engine definately needs a good look at since AFFF causes corrosion.
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Old 4th Nov 2010, 19:41
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High Res Picture from the upperdeck, I wonder if something punctured the wing fuel tank.

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