Qantas A380 uncontained #2 engine failure
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Oz
Posts: 148
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Doubt it was a bird...
You usually get comments from the pax of a smell of "roast chicken" after a bird is ingested, and I haven't seen any suggestion of that. Not impossible, but unlikely.
I'm sure if it was one, the people looking at the engine would know about it by now.
With regard to the comments about the engine running for electrics... as disembarking pax with engines running is quite harzardous to say the least, I would guess the PIC only allowed it (disembarking with engine running) because there was no other option. A ground power source could be used if necessary- although, is that a good idea with possible fuel hazrds around?)
Also, stairs are the obvious choice; not that it mattered as they only disembarked on the RHS but a slide (if used on the LHS) could easily be ingested and then your problems are REALLY beginning.
I'm sure if it was one, the people looking at the engine would know about it by now.
With regard to the comments about the engine running for electrics... as disembarking pax with engines running is quite harzardous to say the least, I would guess the PIC only allowed it (disembarking with engine running) because there was no other option. A ground power source could be used if necessary- although, is that a good idea with possible fuel hazrds around?)
Also, stairs are the obvious choice; not that it mattered as they only disembarked on the RHS but a slide (if used on the LHS) could easily be ingested and then your problems are REALLY beginning.
Boomerang
Yep, agreed 100%, the aircraft appears to safely stopped, on the paved surface, on all it's gear, in a normal attitude with no signs of anything life threatening in the way of smoke or fire but, yes, there's the inconvenience of an engine running. Why anyone would consider throwing the passengers down the slides in such circumstances is beyond me.
.... stairs are the obvious choice;
Join Date: May 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 200
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ChristiaanJ: Somewhere around here I saw a photo or video of two fire trucks spraying water in to try and induce a flame-out. Later there appeared to be only one, then it stopped (I'm guessing it succeeded at that point?).
ECAM Actions.
ECAM Actions.
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Oz
Posts: 148
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
For those of you wondering:
Cabin crew and pilots due to work on the cancelled flights would be given full pay or moved to work on other aircraft, Mr Joyce said.
He said most of maintenance for the planes was done in Australia with heavy maintenance done in the Lufthansa facility Germany.
"The engines have been in service as long as the aircraft has operated which is two years," he said.
"These are new engines, they're a new design from Rolls Royce, they're engines that are particular for the A380 and they've been operating on all the A380 fleet."
He said most of maintenance for the planes was done in Australia with heavy maintenance done in the Lufthansa facility Germany.
"The engines have been in service as long as the aircraft has operated which is two years," he said.
"These are new engines, they're a new design from Rolls Royce, they're engines that are particular for the A380 and they've been operating on all the A380 fleet."
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Italy
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hunan factor
This matter is not to forget in my opinion since after all it's the biggest facto procentually to most accidents/ incidents . I remember at my old airline up in the north an JT8 engine on our MD-83 "exploaded " just 10 min after takeoff, that was caused by the engine overhauler " forgot" to put some lockwashers on one part of the turbine section ,(the engine had less than a 1000 hr of life at that time), and the part came off and went thru the pylon and also thru the cabin. Luckily no one was injured at that accident due to mo pax at the last two rows . Not impossible that something similar have happened now. They will very soon find out though as in our case. Just a thougt
Regards wings 1011
Regards wings 1011
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Dallas, TX USA
Posts: 739
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Appears to have been a fuel tank leak from the wing, based on photos and inside passenger video (taken from a seat behind the wing). So after the engine failure resulting in the loss of engine #2, the aircraft appears to have had a fuel leak, leading edge devices not working, loss of power control of engine #1, only half the spoilers deployed on landing (from video), landing gear doors did not retract, and indications of loss of one of the hydraulic systems.
Could it have gotten much worse and still been controllable? I think these passengers were pretty lucky.
Could it have gotten much worse and still been controllable? I think these passengers were pretty lucky.
inflight photo: smoke or fuel?
FUEL.
#2 tank has been perforated, at least in 2 places. Engine exhaust is affected by the vortex sheet rollup and eventually is entrained into the tip vortex over some distance. (flaps alter this somewhat, but the inflight photo shows the trace from inboard of #2. The photos of the wing upper surface inboard of #2 show penetration behind the spar as well as in front of the spar). Question is whether the spar itself was penetrated which would be expensive to really expensive.
As far as making a dry area aligned with the area inline with the turbine disc, in the wing a swept span makes that volumetrically prohibitive. No practical amount of armoring is going to stop a penetration from a disc section release.
FDR
#2 tank has been perforated, at least in 2 places. Engine exhaust is affected by the vortex sheet rollup and eventually is entrained into the tip vortex over some distance. (flaps alter this somewhat, but the inflight photo shows the trace from inboard of #2. The photos of the wing upper surface inboard of #2 show penetration behind the spar as well as in front of the spar). Question is whether the spar itself was penetrated which would be expensive to really expensive.
As far as making a dry area aligned with the area inline with the turbine disc, in the wing a swept span makes that volumetrically prohibitive. No practical amount of armoring is going to stop a penetration from a disc section release.
FDR
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: overthehillsandmountains
Posts: 140
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Flight Safety
"I think these passengers were pretty lucky"...
Not much to do with luck, Mr Safety. Nor God, by the way.
Certification requires the airplane to be able to survive certain failure modes.
Thanks to the engineers at Airbus, this particular A380 certainly did.
Why Rolls Royce failed, we'll discover in due course.
Not much to do with luck, Mr Safety. Nor God, by the way.
Certification requires the airplane to be able to survive certain failure modes.
Thanks to the engineers at Airbus, this particular A380 certainly did.
Why Rolls Royce failed, we'll discover in due course.
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Europe
Age: 55
Posts: 91
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
@FDR, Flightsafety
Do you have positive confirmation of a fuel leak which you state as fact? What I saw on the video did not look like fuel - more like air moisture in a vortex. Plus I read in a comment from SDFlight over at Flightglobal that the fuel tank does not extend to where the wing was punctured.
The partial slats deployment might be connected to the slat drives being right there; otherwise, again according to SDFlight, it would appear the pilots may have shut down the "green" hydraulic system as a precautionary measure, rather than because of an actual leak.
So far, this is all speculation. Come next morning in Singapore, I hope we'll have a bit of fact from the investigation, or at least some of the wilder theories debunked.
The partial slats deployment might be connected to the slat drives being right there; otherwise, again according to SDFlight, it would appear the pilots may have shut down the "green" hydraulic system as a precautionary measure, rather than because of an actual leak.
So far, this is all speculation. Come next morning in Singapore, I hope we'll have a bit of fact from the investigation, or at least some of the wilder theories debunked.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: London, New York, Paris, Moscow.
Posts: 3,632
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
#2 tank has been perforated, at least in 2 places.
I take it your on about the in and out holes? Top one aft does look very carbon fiberey.
Think your possibly looking at a wing change here, which could mean both off perhaps if it can't be jigged.
Oh btw, it's the No2 Feeder tank. Which raises more problems over ferry.
GR
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Away from home Rat
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Luck is a word that does come into the equation when an uncontained engine failure occurs like this one. Certification ticks in the boxes reduced the chances that cataosrophic failures like these will end in a loss of life and frames, but no system built by us is 100% failsafe IMHO. Luck is in the direction of where that disc decided to depart etc.
AD?
There's an airworthiness directive on this engine:
http://www.channel4.com/media/c4-new...0-0008R1_1.pdf
Thoughts?
http://www.channel4.com/media/c4-new...0-0008R1_1.pdf
Thoughts?
The failure is in the HPT or IPT region, too far forward for the LPT.
"cool down?"
Please can we have less wild speculation and more calm analysis.
The "shock horror drama" comments are just pointless noise.
Do we, for example, have any REAL FACTUAL evidence that No1 engine could not be shut down ?. All that I see so far is a picture of fire crew spraying cooling water on a hot cowling. From that scanty evidence we have wild speculations about common routing of controls and imagined horrors.
Please please pretty please calm down and get a grip on reality.
The "shock horror drama" comments are just pointless noise.
Do we, for example, have any REAL FACTUAL evidence that No1 engine could not be shut down ?. All that I see so far is a picture of fire crew spraying cooling water on a hot cowling. From that scanty evidence we have wild speculations about common routing of controls and imagined horrors.
Please please pretty please calm down and get a grip on reality.
agree with your sentiment, however #1 is certainly still running during the hose down, look at the efflux, at least QFA has a really clean compressor section on #1....
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Bear Island
Posts: 598
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
previous video...
fine,erm but that was an engineered failure of an N1 blade on a static rig, whilst that may yet prove to be the case, the collateral damage seems to indicate another turbine stage. IMHO we are looking at something that with the kind of mass and heat around could well have resuled in a hull loss. The puncture to the rear of the obvious being the problem. In the video there appears to be a vapour trail of fuel coming from it, although that could possibly be atmospherics.
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: reading uk
Age: 77
Posts: 98
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
cool down
Hi guys,
I joined this site looking for informed opinion, professional information and more than one gets from the press.
So far 70% or more of the content regarding the Qantas incident, is what one would expect to read in the `Sun`.
Dave
I joined this site looking for informed opinion, professional information and more than one gets from the press.
So far 70% or more of the content regarding the Qantas incident, is what one would expect to read in the `Sun`.
Dave
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: on the golf course (Covid permitting)
Posts: 2,131
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Actually Top Bunk, I seem to recall that QANTAS took delivery of their first A380 in Oct 2008. I was working at the Airbus plant in Hamburg at the time. The aircraft may have first flown 2 years 10 months ago but was then ferried from Toulouse to Finkenwerder for painting and cabin fit.
8000+ hours and 800+ flights sounds about the right ratio of 10 hours/flight for a longhaul aircraft.
No matter what the life expectancy, no engine should fail like this given modern EHMS processes in place. A big issue for RR to resolve here, no doubt.