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Qantas A380 uncontained #2 engine failure

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Qantas A380 uncontained #2 engine failure

Old 4th Nov 2010, 15:13
  #181 (permalink)  
 
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fan and turbine speeds

DakMan: isn't the fan directly driven by the LP turbine and thus have the same angular velocity (N1) and higher peripheral speed, cos it has much greater diameter. Aren't you saying that the failure was in the IP or HP turbines and those have higher ang. vel. (N2, N3) ?
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Old 4th Nov 2010, 15:17
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Yes, looked like an HPT burst to me, the size of the disc is a good indicator. Also, the "hole" in the engine appears to be toward the narrowest part of the turbine case, ergo HPT. Also the HPT has a much higher rotational speed (rpm) than the LP / IP system.
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Old 4th Nov 2010, 15:21
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RR getting carried away with their cutting edge technology and losing the plot for safe cotainment with extra weight...how's the B787 engine Trent 1000 doing?
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Old 4th Nov 2010, 15:23
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RR are not the only manufacturers to have uncontained turbine failure events.
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Old 4th Nov 2010, 15:26
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It is much to early to reach any conclusion. I gathered some pictures of the area. They do not suggest anything though. The authorities will have a look first.



It seems the major puncture occurred on one of the wing leading edge drooped nose devices, just in front of the fuel tanks.

However we can't see or say what really happened at this stage. There could be more then one hole, it could be anything else too. I do not know.

Do I have my .ss covered?
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Old 4th Nov 2010, 15:27
  #186 (permalink)  
 
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it remember this incident!




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Old 4th Nov 2010, 15:29
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RR getting carried away with their cutting edge technology and losing the plot for safe cotainment with extra weight...how's the B787 engine Trent 1000 doing?
Why is everyone struggling with the idea that YOU CAN'T CONTAIN A DISK. A blade yes, but a disk no.

We've had multiple pages of people digging up standards, TV shows and any other evidence, all of which discusses the loss of blades rather than disks.

Edit: See the pictures above to see a disk rip straight through the aircraft and embed itself in the opposite engine.
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Old 4th Nov 2010, 15:29
  #188 (permalink)  
 
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AA 767 (CF6) indeed first incident that crossed my mind.. they have found similar disc fragment on the ground in this case.
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Old 4th Nov 2010, 15:29
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There's an airworthiness directive on this engine:
http://www.channel4.com/media/c4-new...0-0008R1_1.pdf

Thoughts?
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Old 4th Nov 2010, 15:30
  #190 (permalink)  
 
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uncontained TURBINE failure

DakMan: GE had an uncontained FAN disc failure with a UA DC10 in Sioux City. What air transport uncontained turbine failures have GE or P&W had ? keesje: thanks. Was that a CF6 compressor or turbine failure ?

Last edited by Gegenbeispiel; 4th Nov 2010 at 15:34. Reason: typo
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Old 4th Nov 2010, 15:32
  #191 (permalink)  
 
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see above............
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Old 4th Nov 2010, 15:35
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AA at LAX? look up a few posts

Bolli
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Old 4th Nov 2010, 15:37
  #193 (permalink)  
 
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bit dissapointed no live video of the incident at least there's one shortly after (in flight though)

YouTube - Qantas A380 Engine Failure Footage from the passenger view (4 nov 2010)
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Old 4th Nov 2010, 15:38
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Patrick makes the point that has been bothering me all morning and has led to about three hours of useless internet research on the FADEC and Trent 900.

Simple question (and feel free to flame me out of existence if I have got this all wrong).

If a computer is the boss of the engine and all the feeds to the computer are cut (because they run through a common structural point) and the computers program says: "continue to carry out your last instruction" (eg thrust on full power) until you run out fuel....is that not a potential cluster**** of biblical proportions?

OK, not so simple by wording, but surely someone out there is going to tell me and Patrick to stop worrying because there is a big red override knob or something which tells the FADEC to **** *** and shuts the engine down.
Not worked the 900 but normally with FADEC engines the HP fuel valve in the FMU is controlled by a direct feed of 28v battery power via the fuel cut off switch.

If this supply were to be severed then the LP fuel valve should still be able to be closed as this is normally supplied through the fire handle.

Pulling the fire handle to shut down an engine can take a couple of minutes for all the fuel in the line between the LP valve and the burners to be used up, perhaps the pilot mistook this for the LP valve not working? Maybe the A380 is different but it's a system of backups that has been around for years and still is on all the FADEC equipped aircraft I know inc the A320.

Of course the possibility remains that the wiring for both valves could have been severed, slim but maybe. I know in the 320 they went to great lengths to separate them running the LP valve wiring along the rear edge of the wing and around the tip and the HP normal route along the leading edge.
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Old 4th Nov 2010, 15:39
  #195 (permalink)  
 
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If a disc is allowed to break free then I am not going to sit next to the engine for fear I will get ripped apart...seems front engine standard not same as rear end
Sounds like we need more regulation for engine makers
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Old 4th Nov 2010, 15:41
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"It seems the major puncture occurred on one of the wing leading edge drooped nose devices, just in front of the fuel tanks."

To my mind the grey painted area is the fueltank...
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Old 4th Nov 2010, 15:42
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Please can we have less wild speculation and more calm analysis.
The "shock horror drama" comments are just pointless noise.

Do we, for example, have any REAL FACTUAL evidence that No1 engine could not be shut down ?. All that I see so far is a picture of fire crew spraying cooling water on a hot cowling. From that scanty evidence we have wild speculations about common routing of controls and imagined horrors.

Please please pretty please calm down and get a grip on reality.
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Old 4th Nov 2010, 15:45
  #198 (permalink)  
 
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To those who are posting pix:

Thanks for doing so... BUT please read the guidlines provided py pprune and reduce the size before posting. Otherwise the image is so large it runs right off the screen and I have to go out into the garden to get all of it.

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Old 4th Nov 2010, 15:46
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There is a pretty good pic a few pages back where its pretty obvious they were spraying the engine whilst it was running.
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Old 4th Nov 2010, 15:47
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Lufthansa Technik will be under scrutiny Im sure.

Was the loud bang a bird perhaps......an albatros?

No fire reported by the crew?

MM
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