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Qantas A380 uncontained #2 engine failure

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Qantas A380 uncontained #2 engine failure

Old 4th Nov 2010, 16:41
  #221 (permalink)  
bearfoil
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Disregarding UAL and the explosion of #2, we may be at the threshold of safety as it relates to Turbofans. UAL N1 had a crack in the Titanium disc, it disintegrated and crippled the airframe. But for Haynes and the others, all should have died. I use the word "Threshold" advisedly, I don't see anything that cannot be done to stiffen the powerplant.

GE has a monster that made 125,000 PoT in the test cell. As the Fan gets bigger, the limits of Mass and rotational Speed get tested, by man and by nature, hopefully by man first. Heat cycles, work cycles, vibration, harmonics, etc.

In the first thread of BA038, AAIB made note of "Heretofore unnoticed Fuel behaviour". I posted a theory of harmonics destroying the localized fuel supplies with Acoustic vibration at and near the FOHE. Incidence of airflow, if not at 0 degrees to the longitudinal axis of the shaft will create an imbalance in the large disc, so not only acoustic, but vibrational energy has a part to play. One would think because the powerplant is new, and cycles would be a lesser consideration of failure cause, that Manufacturing played a part, though this is just as unlikely. A Bird? What is the Avian environment like? That would have been noticed at takeoff, though in climb ingestion could have caused the explosion. Who knows. The Trent is not having a good year.
 
Old 4th Nov 2010, 16:41
  #222 (permalink)  
 
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Those lamenting sensationalism in the press will undoubted appreciate the "restraint" being demonstrated by CNN: "Qantas grounds Airbus A380 fleet after engine cover falls off plane".
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Old 4th Nov 2010, 16:42
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Dave's Brother-get a clue

Hey Dave's bro...

don't know where you heard that, but they probably shut down a second engine on opposite side of plane for even distribution of engine power....
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Old 4th Nov 2010, 16:42
  #224 (permalink)  
 
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"As also indicated above the 'fail safe' condition for loss of signal to the engine control is to continue at last demanded power, it is obviously not a satisfactory condition if a single event can lead to loss of control."

I was talking about the engines' own control systems, not the aircraft's flight controls. Each engine has a controller on it that takes the flight controls' reference command and attempts to meet it. Without this controller, the surge/stall phenomena tends to do bad things to the engine.

I'm sorry, I thought this was a technical discussion forum and not USA Today.
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Old 4th Nov 2010, 16:43
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RR seems to struggle with controls design.
Please provide us the source of this wisdom, and explain how they are different from other engine manufacturers?

And by the way it's QANTAS (Queensland And New Territories Air Services).
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Old 4th Nov 2010, 16:46
  #226 (permalink)  
 
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Anti Spelling Police be damned. This is too much. 1 to Go's Profile - All Airbus types. Occupation: Training Captain.

Quantus. Two mistakes in (what should be) a 6 letter acronym. Not to mention (ETOPS et all).

Airbus Training Captain. Like I'm an astronaut.

Now boob smith's come up with another variant. Quantas! QANTAS! Bloody QANTAS!

Queensland and Northern bloody Territory bloody Aerial Services!

Dodo. Aerial Services - but close. Totally disregarding the New for Northern
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Old 4th Nov 2010, 16:46
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I was talking about the engines' own control systems, not the aircraft's flight controls. Each engine has a controller on it that takes the flight controls' reference command and attempts to meet it. Without this controller, the surge/stall phenomena tends to do bad things to the engine.

I'm sorry, I thought this was a technical discussion forum and not USA Today.
Really?

I'm not sure this thread has reached the technical heights of USA Today.
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Old 4th Nov 2010, 16:49
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Dodo. Aerial Services - but close.
I'll give ya that one
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Old 4th Nov 2010, 16:53
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The design criteria for jet engines state they must be able to contain fan AND/OR turbine disc failiures, think united DC10, these pictures look remarkably like a turbine disc fail. If any fan blades are damaged or missing its usually after the initial turbine fail and a result of shaft imbalance , a bad disc fail will usually result in the translating sleeve damaged or missing.
Will be interesting to see the official findings on why such a new , low hours engine failed so spectacularly.
More rubbish.

Engines have to be able to contain any blade off, including a fan blade but theres no way they can be certified to contain a disk that explodes. To do that you'd need a solid metal engine casing several inches thick!
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Old 4th Nov 2010, 16:55
  #230 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by forget
Queensland and Northern bloody Territory bloody Aerial Services!

Oh, and I quite thought it was something like ... Quite A Nice Trip, All Survived ...


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Old 4th Nov 2010, 16:56
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I see Reuters have updated their pics, but what is the brown stuff being sprayed on Engine 1 when it was still running - picture 29 in their set

Reuters Pictures
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Old 4th Nov 2010, 17:00
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Brown Stuff = AIRBUS & RR new Fadec control signal to shut down engine The A380 Lav (s) is the prime source (high quality) of the brown Stuff hitting the fan... I propose a new Thread: You know you're in Singapore when...

Last edited by Melax; 4th Nov 2010 at 17:17.
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Old 4th Nov 2010, 17:01
  #233 (permalink)  
 
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I see Reuters have updated their pics, but what is the brown stuff being sprayed on Engine 1 when it was still running - picture 29 in their set
Maybe they were pumping out the cabin once the passengers had left?
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Old 4th Nov 2010, 17:02
  #234 (permalink)  
 
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Quite ironic really - brown stuff hitting fan ????
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Old 4th Nov 2010, 17:05
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Quite ironic really - brown stuff hitting fan ????


You made my afternoon
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Old 4th Nov 2010, 17:08
  #236 (permalink)  
 
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If we're on to spelling, could some of you please try and remember what Miss Postlethwaite in elementary school was trying to knock into your heads:
of it = its
it is = it's
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Old 4th Nov 2010, 17:08
  #237 (permalink)  
 
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I agree with atakacs, ive read every post in this topic all day and thankfully one of the posts cheered me up!

nice one Wookey and WillDAQ
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Old 4th Nov 2010, 17:09
  #238 (permalink)  
 
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They just played a video shot buy a pax during landing. After the airplane slowed the number 1 engine was still kicking up quite a spray. It appears on first view that the engine indeed was uncontrolled.


Edit: Sorry for not including the source, it was Fox News in the US
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Old 4th Nov 2010, 17:10
  #239 (permalink)  
 
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Jsut wondering didn't Air France take delivery recently ? What engine have they ?
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Old 4th Nov 2010, 17:11
  #240 (permalink)  
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Maybe, but ...

Originally Posted by mickyman
Lufthansa Technik will be under scrutiny Im sure.
A LH-Technik spokesman said according to airliners.de that they are not responsible for engine maintenance.
 

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