Flights at risk as pilots refuse to accept 'demeaning' ID cards
>>Just to clarify this. This is a post about some pilots NOT wanting to wear ID cards. Correct?<<
Incorrect. This is about the campaign against the UK Government's National Identity Register which seeks to create a database of every citizens's personal details so they can be tracked and monitored.
Check out the debate at: stop the database state » NO2ID
Incorrect. This is about the campaign against the UK Government's National Identity Register which seeks to create a database of every citizens's personal details so they can be tracked and monitored.
Check out the debate at: stop the database state » NO2ID
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tracey Island
Posts: 1,496
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: north of barlu
Posts: 6,207
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
DominicYPGV
Please tell me how an ID card would help if a crew member had become mentaly unbalanced?
The fact is this is all about the Labour goverments paranoid aim to control the population, perhaps the one eyed scotish git should be able to control his own ministers first.
The fact is this is all about the Labour goverments paranoid aim to control the population, perhaps the one eyed scotish git should be able to control his own ministers first.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: The Land of Beer and Chocolate
Age: 56
Posts: 798
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree with everyones discontent with this and how frustrating it must be having to already just do ordinary security checks... however it only takes one pilot that is suffering from psychological problems to cause some massive damage. If you had a pilot come on board with a pistol of such or another weapon and they caused grievous harm to the other flight crew then they suddenly have the lives of possibly 350 or more people in their hands. I'd hate to think what the outcomes of something like that would be. Such events to come to mind.... what about the fed ex flight engineer that brought in a spear gun and almost killed those pilots and took down the plane. Or the qantas pilot whom had an urge through depression to pull back the throttle on takeoff roll.
Don't get me wrong i think it's hard enough on you guys already... but it is something that should be taken into consideration
Don't get me wrong i think it's hard enough on you guys already... but it is something that should be taken into consideration
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 183
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hands up all those with nothing to hide.
Have you checked your emails, tel numbers called, medical and credit files?
Manchester citizens will be the first to apply for their voluntary UK ID, so to avoid queues around the block at Govt offices, we can have our personal details recorded by the local post office, chemist and poss anyone else that wants to get paid for doing the job. Fertile ground for scammers.
Have you checked your emails, tel numbers called, medical and credit files?
Manchester citizens will be the first to apply for their voluntary UK ID, so to avoid queues around the block at Govt offices, we can have our personal details recorded by the local post office, chemist and poss anyone else that wants to get paid for doing the job. Fertile ground for scammers.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: HK
Posts: 94
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
DominicYPGV
Not only are you missing the point(by a country mile!) about the reasons for the resistance to the ID card issue, you have clearly lost the plot when it comes to weapons. Give your brain a chance before you hit the keyboard.
Heres a quiz, that even people who demonstrate a sub100 IQ should still be able to do well:
What is the most dangerous weapon to the
that a pilot may have:
a) a pistol,
or
b) 200+ ton bomb packed with fuel, oil, bodies and crusty sandwiches, and - shock horror - controlled by one of those troublesome argumentative pilots.
answers on a postcard to......
There is no need to force through the ID card issue with the undue haste that is so clearly apparent, when aircrew currently have more than adequate means of proving their credentials. Perhaps the government should instead 1) review its policy on allowing any Tom Dick and Mustaffa to just walk into the country, and 2) be firmer in deporting those who once in, lawfully or otherwise, seek to do ill harm to the people, values and established way of living in the UK.
DominicYPGV - get a grip of the bigger picture will ya plse.
Rant over.
...If you had a pilot come on board with a pistol of such or another weapon...
Heres a quiz, that even people who demonstrate a sub100 IQ should still be able to do well:
What is the most dangerous weapon to the
...lives of possibly 350 or more people...
a) a pistol,
or
b) 200+ ton bomb packed with fuel, oil, bodies and crusty sandwiches, and - shock horror - controlled by one of those troublesome argumentative pilots.
answers on a postcard to......
There is no need to force through the ID card issue with the undue haste that is so clearly apparent, when aircrew currently have more than adequate means of proving their credentials. Perhaps the government should instead 1) review its policy on allowing any Tom Dick and Mustaffa to just walk into the country, and 2) be firmer in deporting those who once in, lawfully or otherwise, seek to do ill harm to the people, values and established way of living in the UK.
DominicYPGV - get a grip of the bigger picture will ya plse.
Rant over.
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Egcc
Posts: 1,695
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Give DominicYPGV a break, he's only 17 according to his profile and still a student. I personally can forgive him for falling for the much vaunted government line that ID cards will make us all safer.
Fact is though Dominic, the 'safer' concept is just spin, by a government that has now fallen to its knees and will not be with us for much longer. The scheme is going to cost billions of pounds and is a complete waste of taxpayers money, when our economy is so far up the swanny that our children, and possibly even our children's children are going to be paying the price for years to come.
The scheme is all about surveillence of the population. It is doing away with the rights of individuals. We have seen this creeping in year after year here in the UK with CCTV cameras in every city and town, monitoring our every move. Why? Because the whole society has taken a too pc stance for years and allowed kids to grow up with no sanctions on bad behaviour. They become adults with similar anti-social lifestyles and the police and criminal justice system have been unable to control them. The easy option? Get video evidence. It makes policing easier, leads to easier convictions. But, at what cost? ALL of us under surveillence 24hrs a day. Nothing to fear if you are innocent! Right, tell that to the many, many convicted but innocent people from the 1960s-1990s who were 'stitched up' and sent to prison by a corrupt minority of police.
So, now ID cards. They WILL become compulsory, after having been introduced via the back door - 'voluntarily' for airport workers who can't get their airport security pass issued or renewed without them and will effectively be laid off if they refuse to get one. We are considered a 'trusted party', which means that they can issue them without too many problems as we have already had all the background checks done. Next will be people like Prison Officers, Police, Firefighters, Civil Servants etc etc etc until all of a sudden 10 million people have had them 'voluntarily' forced upon them. Eventually you will have to have one to go about your daily business - they will make rules like needing to show a national ID card to book a train ticket, a flight, to gain access to a city centre, the list could go on. Eventually you will be unable to live your life without one.
And will this stop terrorism? No. Will this prevent the 'unhinged' pilot from taking control of his aircraft and wreaking havoc? Of course not. Remember, the pilot already has control, he doesn't need a weapon. He just choses his moment and there is nothing anyone can do about it if he is thus inclined. Can you now see why yor previous post was so ridiculed by others? ID cards will do NOTHING to prevent terrorist attacks. How many of the bombers in the UK on 7/7 would they have stopped? None. They were all British Citizens. They are what is known as 'clean skins', they grow up here, have no criminal convictions and then turn fundamentalist. They would all be eligible to apply for and get a national id card! As for the Glasgow bombers - they were Doctors in the NHS! Do you think they would be refused a national ID card if they had jumped through all the hoops for issue?
The whole ID card thing is part of a much bigger plan to control the populace. If you haven't already, take a look at stop the database state » NO2ID and just have a read about DNA database expansion, the monitoring of all phone calls, emails, urls visited etc etc and just see how unjust this really is. And do you think they had a public referrendum asking our opinion on whether we want this or not? I'll let you guess at the answer.
PP
Fact is though Dominic, the 'safer' concept is just spin, by a government that has now fallen to its knees and will not be with us for much longer. The scheme is going to cost billions of pounds and is a complete waste of taxpayers money, when our economy is so far up the swanny that our children, and possibly even our children's children are going to be paying the price for years to come.
The scheme is all about surveillence of the population. It is doing away with the rights of individuals. We have seen this creeping in year after year here in the UK with CCTV cameras in every city and town, monitoring our every move. Why? Because the whole society has taken a too pc stance for years and allowed kids to grow up with no sanctions on bad behaviour. They become adults with similar anti-social lifestyles and the police and criminal justice system have been unable to control them. The easy option? Get video evidence. It makes policing easier, leads to easier convictions. But, at what cost? ALL of us under surveillence 24hrs a day. Nothing to fear if you are innocent! Right, tell that to the many, many convicted but innocent people from the 1960s-1990s who were 'stitched up' and sent to prison by a corrupt minority of police.
So, now ID cards. They WILL become compulsory, after having been introduced via the back door - 'voluntarily' for airport workers who can't get their airport security pass issued or renewed without them and will effectively be laid off if they refuse to get one. We are considered a 'trusted party', which means that they can issue them without too many problems as we have already had all the background checks done. Next will be people like Prison Officers, Police, Firefighters, Civil Servants etc etc etc until all of a sudden 10 million people have had them 'voluntarily' forced upon them. Eventually you will have to have one to go about your daily business - they will make rules like needing to show a national ID card to book a train ticket, a flight, to gain access to a city centre, the list could go on. Eventually you will be unable to live your life without one.
And will this stop terrorism? No. Will this prevent the 'unhinged' pilot from taking control of his aircraft and wreaking havoc? Of course not. Remember, the pilot already has control, he doesn't need a weapon. He just choses his moment and there is nothing anyone can do about it if he is thus inclined. Can you now see why yor previous post was so ridiculed by others? ID cards will do NOTHING to prevent terrorist attacks. How many of the bombers in the UK on 7/7 would they have stopped? None. They were all British Citizens. They are what is known as 'clean skins', they grow up here, have no criminal convictions and then turn fundamentalist. They would all be eligible to apply for and get a national id card! As for the Glasgow bombers - they were Doctors in the NHS! Do you think they would be refused a national ID card if they had jumped through all the hoops for issue?
The whole ID card thing is part of a much bigger plan to control the populace. If you haven't already, take a look at stop the database state » NO2ID and just have a read about DNA database expansion, the monitoring of all phone calls, emails, urls visited etc etc and just see how unjust this really is. And do you think they had a public referrendum asking our opinion on whether we want this or not? I'll let you guess at the answer.
PP
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Warwick
Age: 58
Posts: 43
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Quite simply, ID cards are there to track and monitor the British civilian population. Most of us have photo ID in the way of a driving licence or passport.
We're fed the line that they're being introduced to tackle crime and terrorists. Well criminals and terrorists have the resources to forge ID cards much as they did with passports.
The irony of all this is the lengths that the MPs, PM and the Speaker went to, to block the publishing of their expenses (and even when they lost the last battle they wanted to take a black marker pen to them) and the instigator of the cards was the 2nd Home Secretary who looks like she'll be before the magistrates for it.
We're fed the line that they're being introduced to tackle crime and terrorists. Well criminals and terrorists have the resources to forge ID cards much as they did with passports.
The irony of all this is the lengths that the MPs, PM and the Speaker went to, to block the publishing of their expenses (and even when they lost the last battle they wanted to take a black marker pen to them) and the instigator of the cards was the 2nd Home Secretary who looks like she'll be before the magistrates for it.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: The Land of Beer and Chocolate
Age: 56
Posts: 798
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Give DominicYPGV a break, he's only 17 according to his profile and still a student. I personally can forgive him for falling for the much vaunted government line that ID cards will make us all safer.
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: germany
Posts: 53
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well said pilot pete, I couldn't agree more, I fully support any angenda that puts a stop to this nonsense, of course they will be out of government soon, about time since in the last 12 years they have let anyone in the uk and hence have no idea who is even here, even convicted foreign criminals don't get booted out.
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: GLASGOW
Posts: 1,289
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pilot Pete
Well said PP. This all started in the Bliar years where a controlling insidious goverment deliberately fed the population 'false fears'. The notion that the government is 'looking after you'. Total nonsense. The constant resort to 'war on terror' etc, is another deliberate ploy to effectively control the populations movements and actions. By being 'afraid', we can manipulate in any manner we wish. ID card introduction is another thread on the theme of control and contain.
Meanwhile they are all stealing at the golden trough. Tiime the whole population stood up and shouted enough is enough and we get rid of them all - and I mean all of them.
Meanwhile they are all stealing at the golden trough. Tiime the whole population stood up and shouted enough is enough and we get rid of them all - and I mean all of them.
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Stalybridge
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In the case of a homegrown terrorist threat ID cards will solve nothing.All they serve is to be able to identify the bodies easier. Did anyone notice that the Government said last week they are cutting the Forsensic Science people by 1/2 ,those very people you would need in a catastrophe to help identify the bodies by Dental or DNA records.So they cut down on the staff and give us all labels. Sorry, I mean't ID cards instead.This lot would make the Gestapo or the Stasi proud by their prosposed plan and the way they can have a complete file on everyone using 21st Century methods, it certainly beats the old card index.I also noticed that they have opened it up to outside contracts as far as I am concerned there are way too many ways for my ID to get lost between contractor (Chemist,Post office,etc) and the issuing agency and the only way they are going to get such personal information from me like my Fingerprints is via a fully legal source such as the Police who have years of experience and a fully accountable in these matters,not some snotty nose chemist whose bosses want a cut of the action.
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tracey Island
Posts: 1,496
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
the Police who have years of experience and a fully accountable in these matters
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: 3433N 06912E
Posts: 389
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Good to see the Government still manages to maintain secure information..
Oops! Building firm blurts out secrets of hush-hush MI5 HQ
Oops! Building firm blurts out secrets of hush-hush MI5 HQ - Times Online
wonderfully....
"[...] By contrast the agency had been hoping to keep the existence of its £20m northern headquarters a secret.
MI5 decided to build the spy base after a review of the intelligence failures leading up to the suicide bombings in London on July 7, 2005."
Oops! Building firm blurts out secrets of hush-hush MI5 HQ
Oops! Building firm blurts out secrets of hush-hush MI5 HQ - Times Online
wonderfully....
"[...] By contrast the agency had been hoping to keep the existence of its £20m northern headquarters a secret.
MI5 decided to build the spy base after a review of the intelligence failures leading up to the suicide bombings in London on July 7, 2005."
Join Date: May 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 200
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's a great big CON!!!!
I'd like to know how carrying a piece of plastic prevents someone committing an offence? Pick any.
Good luck to everyone in over-turning this. Think of all the tax revenue lost from all those canceled flights.
ECAM Actions.
I'd like to know how carrying a piece of plastic prevents someone committing an offence? Pick any.
Good luck to everyone in over-turning this. Think of all the tax revenue lost from all those canceled flights.
ECAM Actions.
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Jordan
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Some one advise me please
I currently got admission in the Madiba Bay School of Flight in South Africa and also I got admission into the Canadian Flight Center BC Canada. I am just confused as Madiba bay seems to be cheap $25,000 for PPL, CPL, IR, MULTI while the Canadian Flight Center will cost me $33,000 for same. Please someone advise me where to study which will give me a better experience and job opportunity. From both which is more respected Canadian License of the South African License.
I am just confused....
I am just confused....
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Everywhere
Posts: 88
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Warwick
Age: 58
Posts: 43
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Tories warn firms off ID scheme
The Tories have written to five firms bidding to supply ID cards warning them not to sign any long-term contracts.
BBC NEWS | UK | UK Politics | Tories warn firms off ID scheme
BBC NEWS | UK | UK Politics | Tories warn firms off ID scheme
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: by the fire
Posts: 112
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My worry is that the contracts for the private sector work to setup the infrastructure will be booby trapped by penalty clauses, making it difficult to pull out of the scheme. Interesting that the overall cost is quoted as £4.7bn but the tories reckon they'd only save the exchequer £2bn by scrapping the scheme. 
Don't forget that the Civil Service doesn't change with a change of Government - despite its politicisation by the Stalinist Party. The same faces will be there after the next election....I'll bet with their Departmentmental budget allotment to protect - and associated jobs - the Oppositions plans to chop the scheme aren't too popular.
The cards themselves, if forged, will make it easier for badhats to fraudulently represent themselves as the legitimate cardholder. The scheme's a nightmare. I'm MAN based and hope this all goes away before I'm made to get one of these things. I never thought the day would come when, as a British Citizen, I routinely had to justify who I was to the Civil "Servant" wanting me to do so.
It shows you how utterly wrong we've gone when you see the result of a number of inbounds arriving together in one of Manchester's terminals very early on a Sunday Morning during Summer. Last year the queues waiting to clear passport control stretched the entire length of the terminal. The vast majority of them were UK passport holders back from their hols. UK passport holders trying to return to their own country, and having their passports minutely examined by the reduced complement of border agency staff at that time of the morning. Hmmm. The project is well underway.
Don't forget that the Civil Service doesn't change with a change of Government - despite its politicisation by the Stalinist Party. The same faces will be there after the next election....I'll bet with their Departmentmental budget allotment to protect - and associated jobs - the Oppositions plans to chop the scheme aren't too popular.
The cards themselves, if forged, will make it easier for badhats to fraudulently represent themselves as the legitimate cardholder. The scheme's a nightmare. I'm MAN based and hope this all goes away before I'm made to get one of these things. I never thought the day would come when, as a British Citizen, I routinely had to justify who I was to the Civil "Servant" wanting me to do so.
It shows you how utterly wrong we've gone when you see the result of a number of inbounds arriving together in one of Manchester's terminals very early on a Sunday Morning during Summer. Last year the queues waiting to clear passport control stretched the entire length of the terminal. The vast majority of them were UK passport holders back from their hols. UK passport holders trying to return to their own country, and having their passports minutely examined by the reduced complement of border agency staff at that time of the morning. Hmmm. The project is well underway.
Last edited by spanner the cat; 17th Jun 2009 at 22:14.